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 Brady Hoke. 
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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
GM will be the next head coach

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December 4th, 2014, 2:04 pm
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Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin
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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
Blueskies wrote:
In what ways did Hoke improve the program?


you have to admit, we are WAY better at hitting FG's under Hoke than under RichRod......thats about all I got though ;)

I would like to say we play better Defense, but thats sputtered out as well.

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December 4th, 2014, 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
Blueskies wrote:
In what ways did Hoke improve the program?



academics, recruiting bases, better relations with HS coaches, better relations with boosters, respecting traditions, reaching out to former players, on the field - every position except QB is in better shape for the next coach, etc. rich rod is doing a good job so far at arizona im not debating that. im talking about what he did at michigan - he disrespected and didnt understand traditions, he stopped recruiting pipelines, he went to local camps and literally sat there with his hands down his pants not interacting with the hs coaches whatsover, he openly admitted that he spent very little to no time with an atrocious defense, he was aloof in big events with boosters, he violated simple practice rules, etc. he just didnt understand how to be the face and representative of being a coach at a big time program. he had no aptitude for the off the field events in such a program. now he s at a school without tradition and in a conference where defense is not a premium and he can do his own thing, its a better fit. he was a bad hire for michigan, they had messed up the coaching search and went with the guy with the best resume at the youngest age even though he didnt fit. arizona s had a good year, they beat oregon on a short week and took care of business against ASU but they also wet the bed against UTSanAntonio and RR still doesnt pay attention to defense (97th in the NCAA) very much. his offenses will put up points and be exciting but the way he recruits and coaches has a limited ceiling. he s winning with shortcuts, gimmicks, etc and will likely never have a well balanced team that is strong in all aspects. he s a good coach for an average school who wants to make some noise but he s not the answer for powerhouse programs and he proved that at michigan. why didnt his name come up at nebraska or florida? its bc of the job he did at michigan - he had the worst overall performance of any coach in the history of the school.

hoke s biggest mistake was not bringing in his own QB until his 3rd year at the school and even then the kid isnt the 5-star player he was supposed to be. inexcusably hoke left too much up to chance by investing so heavily into morris without a legit backup plan. he s more of a project who probably wont be good until his 4th and 5th seasons though they werent able to redshirt him. still, the group of morris, speight and malzone isnt a bad group for a new coach to work with provided they arent coming in with a heavy QB running spread system. hoke absolutely earned his firing but an average year for him was 8 wins, rich rod never achieved that even once. dont talk to me about trends in such a short time span and without a crystal ball. future imaginary wins and losses mean nothing.


December 4th, 2014, 5:20 pm
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
A short time span? The timespan is his entire career. Brady Hoke is a mediocre coach. It was obvious before he got to Michigan, it was obvious while he was at Michigan, and it's even more obvious now. Seriously, what he has ever done of merit? The Sugar bowl year where he had Rich Rod's players and OSU was out of omission, and a nearly undefeated year with Ball State. Other than that, nothing. He's 78-70 overall. That's what he is.

I don't know what you mean when you say "respecting traditions"? Obnoxiously talking about "beating Ohio" during press conferences? One of Michigan's traditions is winning. Also, not really sure about the relationship with HS coaches. Where are you getting that from? Rich Rod didn't recruit as well as Hoke while he was here (at least according to the various rating serious, of whose merit I question) but he did bring in some talent.

For the last four years on this board I've been saying Hoke is a fraud and Rich Rod is a decent coach who didn't get a fair shot. You've been saying Hoke is a great coach who can turn the school around, and Rich Rod was awful. (see original Rich Rod topic, Rose Bowl Win topic, etc.)

Hoke has been fired. Rich Rod was named Pac-12 coach of the year and is one game away from the Rose Bowl. The facts are the facts.


December 5th, 2014, 11:50 am
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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
Blueskies wrote:
A short time span? The timespan is his entire career. Brady Hoke is a mediocre coach. It was obvious before he got to Michigan, it was obvious while he was at Michigan, and it's even more obvious now. Seriously, what he has ever done of merit? The Sugar bowl year where he had Rich Rod's players and OSU was out of omission, and a nearly undefeated year with Ball State. Other than that, nothing. He's 78-70 overall. That's what he is.

I don't know what you mean when you say "respecting traditions"? Obnoxiously talking about "beating Ohio" during press conferences? One of Michigan's traditions is winning. Also, not really sure about the relationship with HS coaches. Where are you getting that from? Rich Rod didn't recruit as well as Hoke while he was here (at least according to the various rating serious, of whose merit I question) but he did bring in some talent.

For the last four years on this board I've been saying Hoke is a fraud and Rich Rod is a decent coach who didn't get a fair shot. You've been saying Hoke is a great coach who can turn the school around, and Rich Rod was awful. (see original Rich Rod topic, Rose Bowl Win topic, etc.)

Hoke has been fired. Rich Rod was named Pac-12 coach of the year and is one game away from the Rose Bowl. The facts are the facts.


im not debating who s been fired or who has a better resume. what we re discussing is who was better AT MICHIGAN? my answer is hoke with 100% certainty. maybe it wasnt RRs fault but rich rod didnt fully understand and wasnt fully apprised of what he was getting himsef into. the people hiring him hired him based on his w-l record without looking at the entire situation. if you want to look at facts: rich rod won a total of 6 big ten games in 3 seasons. hoke won 6 each of his first 2 seasons. hoke averaged 4.5 big ten wins a season, hoke s worst season was 3 big ten wins which matches rich rod s best season. considering that, i find it completely bewildering how anyone can make a trend argument. RRs teams didnt play defense and still dont show signs that they ever will.

rich rod is a good offensive coach, he found his place again at another school where he doesnt have to play defense, doesnt have to worry about academics or admissions standards, traditions, a significant media presence or a passionate fan base. being a coach at a school like michigan is much more complex than at west virginia or arizona and you continue to refuse to admit that RR did a poor job here both on and off the field. im not denying the successful season he s had at arizona. even if RR does the improbable and beats oregon a 2nd time and sneaks into the playoffs it still will not change the past (as much as you want it to).

i admit i thought hoke would be better. hoke did a terrible job on the field, deserved being fired, inexplicably waited 3 recruiting classes before bringing in his own QB. he overestimated what he could do with RR s running qbs and couldnt stay committed to keeping elements of RRs offense in place for long enough. hoke made stubborn moves no doubt about it. he didnt do the job as well he promised or even was expected to. i didnt think the RR hire was a good one, but i also thought RR would also do much better than he did. i didnt think RR would be John L Smith in maize and blue. RR was so bad at Michigan that whoever followed couldnt do worse and that ended up holding true.


December 5th, 2014, 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
Hoke "fit" better at Michigan as Rich Rod needed to completely transform the program to build it his way. You can ignore trends, but they do tell a story. We shouldn't be surprised that RR struggled mightily in his first season, but the program did show progress year-over-year. Hoke's program never showed any progress, it only regressed. I would suggest that if RR stayed on at Michigan it would be in much better shape now than it is currently.

Maybe Hoke was the better coach during each of their brief times at Michigan but RR is the better coach overall, we can say that with "100% certainty". That, in and of itself, should tell you something about the current state of the Michigan program.

Listen, I'm a fan of Michigan. They are my 2nd favorite college after MSU and quite frankly my 3rd favorite team isn't even close to UofM. I'd love to see them lose only one game a year. As a fan, I think all this "understanding Michigan" crap needs to be thrown out the window. Michigan needs to win, first and foremost, throw tradition out the door and just find a winner. If stubborn UofM fans want their cake and want to eat it too, the bites are going to continue to be very small each year. I want a big ole bit of that cake personally.

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December 5th, 2014, 3:21 pm
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
If you toss out their first years (which I think is justified, given that nearly ever player of note on the 07' team left for the NFL/transferred out when Rich Rod was hired, and Brady Hoke had none of "his guys" on the 11' team) their respective records at Michigan were:

12-13 (RR)
20-18 (Hoke)

Hoke's winning percentage is slightly better, but not by much.

Seeing as how Hoke was able to go 11-1 with Rich Rod's guys, I can't take your claim that Rich Rod left him nothing outside of QB seriously. A fair number of Rich Rod's guys have made it to the NFL (Denard, Lewan, Campbel, Kovacs, etc.).

Moreover, you should handicap for relative levels of support: Rich Rod was actively sabotaged by members of the Michigan AD, Hoke was given all the support in the world. The most concrete example of this is the budget allocated to coordinators: Rich Rod wasn't given enough to hire the DC he wanted, Jeff Casteel. Hoke was allowed to pay the big bucks. Less obvious, but still significant, is the treatment by the media. For example, see hack Rosenberg's "reporting" on NCAA violations:

http://archive.freep.com/article/200908 ... layers-say

And compare it to a more recent column, a slobering BJ in word form:

http://www.si.com/college-football/2014 ... wolverines

You may be right that Rich Rod will never get a shot at running another major program again. But if he can win the Pac-10 at some point in the next 2-3 years, I think some school will give him a chance. I know, however, that Hoke has absolutely no chance. In fact, if he didn't happen to work for Carr, he never would've been hired at Michigan.


December 5th, 2014, 3:53 pm
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Post Re: Brady Hoke.
Quote:
Seeing as how Hoke was able to go 11-1 with Rich Rod's guys, I can't take your claim that Rich Rod left him nothing outside of QB seriously


good bc i never said that or many of the things you are stretching and claiming i said. im saying hoke failed bc he didnt think he needed to bring in his own qb. it tells me hoke didnt have much of a plan for what he was looking for on offense. considering also that they moved gardner to WR initially makes it even more confusing as to what the plan was for when denard robinson graduated. gardner would ve been a good qb for rich rod. im not criticizing rich rod for not leaving hoke a pro style qb or a team ready to roll in a prostyle system. that would be ridiculous just like its ridiculous to give rich rod a lot of credit for the 11-2 season. the big change there was emphasizing the defense and putting the existing players into a scheme that made sense against the competition they were facing. having game plans rather than rolling out ridiculous schemes designed to play against spread and heavy pass offenses that didnt really exist on the UM schedule. i dont believe rich rod showed any signs of even attempting to develop the defense to that level and its extremely unlikely that season would ve happened under his watch. if harbaugh or miles comes in next season and defeats OSU and MSU, am i correct in saying you will be the first one to point out they did it with "hoke s guys"?


December 6th, 2014, 12:52 pm
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