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 Lions Pick Fifth 
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
Aldon Smith is playing ROLB and hasn't had a sack since Justin Smith went out. As far as Watt he's playing in 3-4 and is at his ideal spot as a 3-4 DE. I like them both, but success on another ten doesn't automatically spell success on a different team in a different system.


January 12th, 2013, 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
kdsberman wrote:
jrd66 wrote:
I think I'd rather take a crack a Milliner at #5 or even Warmack as opposed to settling for the #3 DE in the pool as WJB calls it. Make a pick if there is not good trade down to be had if you find the value to be not as high as you might wish. You cannot draft value that is not there. The FO is under pressure, or at least we think so. We might see more reaching this year than in the past.

Lots of years we talk on this board and we speculate which CB is not worth drafting so high. If they can really play (or teams think they can) , they do go early. #5 is about the perfect spot to pick a CB in my mind. If Milliner is only worth the #8 spot, pick him and move along. The Lions are dying year after year in the D backfield. Maybe this year an impact player will be there when they pick...


If WJB is referring to Bjoern Werner as the #3 DE in the pool, he's on crack.


Where do you guys get this crap from? All I was saying is that if we do take a DE at #5, and he's the first DE off of the board, I really hope that we take the player that turns out to be the best DE in the draft. I have zero confidence in our scouting department and Martin Mayhew to make that determination, there seems to be 3-4 really good DEs, and I have a horrible gut feeling that we're going to take a guy at #5 that gets outplayed by a guy taken at pick 23.

Milliner, IMO, isn't worthy of the #5 pick. I do like his ball skills, but he looked slow to me. Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the combine. That may get him by in the NCAA, but if he is as slow as he looked in the Nat. Championship game, he'll get exposed in the NFL. If we DO draft Millner we're going to need a very good, very fast FS.

Still, I wish we would trade down, and fix the OL. The OL is the single most important unit on the field, on either side of the ball. The one thing that seemed consistent in the playoffs... The Qbs had a TON OF TIME to throw the ball. We may not get many sacks against us, but IMO that's mostly due to scheme and Staff getting the ball out quick. I never see Staff getting these 5+ seconds per snap that the Qbs in the playoffs get, and a LOT of that is due to the lack of respect for our running game.


January 14th, 2013, 1:50 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Where do you guys get this crap from? All I was saying is that if we do take a DE at #5, and he's the first DE off of the board, I really hope that we take the player that turns out to be the best DE in the draft. I have zero confidence in our scouting department and Martin Mayhew to make that determination, there seems to be 3-4 really good DEs, and I have a horrible gut feeling that we're going to take a guy at #5 that gets outplayed by a guy taken at pick 23.

Milliner, IMO, isn't worthy of the #5 pick. I do like his ball skills, but he looked slow to me. Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the combine. That may get him by in the NCAA, but if he is as slow as he looked in the Nat. Championship game, he'll get exposed in the NFL. If we DO draft Millner we're going to need a very good, very fast FS.

Still, I wish we would trade down, and fix the OL. The OL is the single most important unit on the field, on either side of the ball. The one thing that seemed consistent in the playoffs... The Qbs had a TON OF TIME to throw the ball. We may not get many sacks against us, but IMO that's mostly due to scheme and Staff getting the ball out quick. I never see Staff getting these 5+ seconds per snap that the Qbs in the playoffs get, and a LOT of that is due to the lack of respect for our running game.


WJB - I know what you are saying about the DE thing, but you really cant predict those kinds of things. Or at least its really hard to.

As far as Milliner goes, I agree with you. I put him in the same category as Damontre Moore. In other words, I just dont see the extreme hype, but that especially goes for Moore.

Im all for going defense. Stated it time and time again. BUT, I would not be disappointed if we improved this O-line. I REALLY like Chance Warmack. I think he would do wonders for this O-line. Of course, we would have to trade down for him.

But today, right now, if we were on the board and we couldnt trade down, I think Bjoern Werner is the guy to take. I've watched him a ton this year and think he can be just as effective if not more effective than Avril (yes, as a rookie), and be much much cheaper. Then we just actually might have a "dominant" d-line that we are supposed to have.

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January 14th, 2013, 2:28 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
Im in about the same place.

At #5 Id be ok with Joekel or Werner. If both are gone id want to trade down past 8 (pref 10).

At #8-15 Id be cool with Chance Warmack, Barret Jones (pending surgery results) or Millner (tho preferrable in the 12-15 range).

Only thing I dont want to see is someone reached for hardcore, or as WJB puts it the 3rd best of the top DEs or some skill position. OL or a D Need.


January 14th, 2013, 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
jrd66 wrote:
I think I'd rather take a crack a Milliner at #5 or even Warmack as opposed to settling for the #3 DE in the pool as WJB calls it. Make a pick if there is not good trade down to be had if you find the value to be not as high as you might wish. You cannot draft value that is not there. The FO is under pressure, or at least we think so. We might see more reaching this year than in the past.

Lots of years we talk on this board and we speculate which CB is not worth drafting so high. If they can really play (or teams think they can) , they do go early. #5 is about the perfect spot to pick a CB in my mind. If Milliner is only worth the #8 spot, pick him and move along. The Lions are dying year after year in the D backfield. Maybe this year an impact player will be there when they pick...


If WJB is referring to Bjoern Werner as the #3 DE in the pool, he's on crack.


Where do you guys get this crap from? All I was saying is that if we do take a DE at #5, and he's the first DE off of the board, I really hope that we take the player that turns out to be the best DE in the draft. I have zero confidence in our scouting department and Martin Mayhew to make that determination, there seems to be 3-4 really good DEs, and I have a horrible gut feeling that we're going to take a guy at #5 that gets outplayed by a guy taken at pick 23.

Milliner, IMO, isn't worthy of the #5 pick. I do like his ball skills, but he looked slow to me. Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the combine. That may get him by in the NCAA, but if he is as slow as he looked in the Nat. Championship game, he'll get exposed in the NFL. If we DO draft Millner we're going to need a very good, very fast FS.

Still, I wish we would trade down, and fix the OL. The OL is the single most important unit on the field, on either side of the ball. The one thing that seemed consistent in the playoffs... The Qbs had a TON OF TIME to throw the ball. We may not get many sacks against us, but IMO that's mostly due to scheme and Staff getting the ball out quick. I never see Staff getting these 5+ seconds per snap that the Qbs in the playoffs get, and a LOT of that is due to the lack of respect for our running game.


i think a lot of it is bc Stafford doesnt move well in the pocket. he is at his best, getting rid of the ball in <2.5 seconds. He s not very good buying his WRs time to get open despite having decent athleticism. He needs a real QB coach not someone whose qualifications are that he was a semipro QB. Teach him the escape routes out of the pocket, teach him to step up when the pressure is coming from his side, teach him the value of sidestepping guys rather than just bailing out of there as he does. Brady and Manning arent anywhere near the athlete Stafford is and they are much better at buying time than Stafford. Im not sure this guy is getting coached.


January 14th, 2013, 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
DJ-B wrote:
Im in about the same place.

At #5 Id be ok with Joekel or Werner. If both are gone id want to trade down past 8 (pref 10).

At #8-15 Id be cool with Chance Warmack, Barret Jones (pending surgery results) or Millner (tho preferrable in the 12-15 range).

Only thing I dont want to see is someone reached for hardcore, or as WJB puts it the 3rd best of the top DEs or some skill position. OL or a D Need.


You cant just trade down for the F of it. there has to be a team out there that wants to move up and they arent moving up for the F of it either, they are doing it to land a specific player.

If Barrett Jones gets drafted bw 8-15, the GM who drafts him should be punched squarely bw the eyes by every season ticket holder of that franchise.


January 14th, 2013, 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
The Legend wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
Im in about the same place.

At #5 Id be ok with Joekel or Werner. If both are gone id want to trade down past 8 (pref 10).

At #8-15 Id be cool with Chance Warmack, Barret Jones (pending surgery results) or Millner (tho preferrable in the 12-15 range).

Only thing I dont want to see is someone reached for hardcore, or as WJB puts it the 3rd best of the top DEs or some skill position. OL or a D Need.


You cant just trade down for the F of it. there has to be a team out there that wants to move up and they arent moving up for the F of it either, they are doing it to land a specific player.

If Barrett Jones gets drafted bw 8-15, the GM who drafts him should be punched squarely bw the eyes by every season ticket holder of that franchise.


As far as a trade partner, not much to say but Duh. Thats implied. I was stricly speaking of the ideal.

As far as Jones, i will likely agree based on the Injury results. Prior to that he was a no brainer 1st round pick as 1 of the most versatile linemen in the draft with a better pedigree than any OL in the history of college football (3 Nat Championships playing as a Stud in the hardest conference at all 3 OL positions and earning honors at all 3).


January 15th, 2013, 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
im willing to bet that xavior rhodes will jump milliner in the draft. im surpised he hasnt already.

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January 19th, 2013, 3:13 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
Killwill25 wrote:
im willing to bet that xavior rhodes will jump milliner in the draft. im surpised he hasnt already.


what makes you think that? i get the feeling that Rhodes is barely in the top 5 among CBs while Milliner is clearly the top CB in the class. I didnt think Rhodes had a very strong season and Milliner looks like the superior athlete to me.


January 19th, 2013, 10:24 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
I really like Rhodes as well but at this moment I don't think he's as good technically as Milliner when it comes to turning, running, and locating the ball. I hope he develops into a great CB but I think he has a better shot of being a great FS in the NFL. My favorite CB that isn't getting a ton of press is Logan Ryan and a big reason is he played in the Big East. A big questionis the level of competition he faced at the WR position. Depending how the draft plays out he could very well be there for the Lions in the 2nd round. He's a hard nosed CB that can jam, re-route, and turn with receivers and is willing and more than capable of coming up in run support. At #5 I still say look for a move back look at Warmack to give the O-line some muscle and attitude and then get a guy like Ryan or even Rhodes if he's still there in the 2nd round to bolster the secondary.


January 19th, 2013, 10:52 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
Milliner is apparently the top corner at the moment, hard to predict who's next in line. Have listed the top ten from two scouting sites below.

from nationalfootballpost.com

01 Duke Williams CB, Nevada 6-1 200 8.2 I Stats
02 Dee Milliner CB, Alabama 6-1 199 8.2 I Stats
03 Johnthan Banks CB, Mississippi State 6-2 185 7.9 J Stats
04 Xavier Rhodes CB, Florida State 6-2 217 7.5 I Stats
05 Melvin White CB, UL Lafayette 6-3 191 7.5 I Stats
06 David Amerson CB, North Carolina State 6-3 194 6.9 I Full Scouting Report
07 Jordan Poyer CB, Oregon State 6-0 190 6.9 I Stats
08 Will Davis CB, Utah State 6-0 186 6.3 I Stats
09 Kyle Fuller CB, Virginia Tech 6-0 193 6 I Stats
10 Leon McFadden CB, San Diego State 5-10 190 6 I Stats


from NFLDRAFTSCOUT.COM

5 Dee Milliner CB 1 Alabama Jr 6-1 198 1
19 *Xavier Rhodes CB 2 Florida State rJr 6-1 217 1
33 Johnthan Banks CB 3 Mississippi State Sr 6-1 185 1-2
47 Jordan Poyer CB 4 Oregon State Sr 5-11 190 2
50 *Logan Ryan CB 5 Rutgers rJr 6-0 190 2
58 Desmond Trufant CB 6 Washington Sr 6-0 186 2
61 Will Davis CB 7 Utah State Sr 6-0 186 2
70 *David Amerson CB 8 North Carolina State Jr 6-2 194 2-3
78 Jamar Taylor CB 9 Boise State rSr 5-11 198 2-3
86 Robert Alford CB 10 Southeastern Louisiana rSr 5-11 184 2-3

For those of you interested, I believe Duke Williams CB, Nevada, will be playing today in the Shrine game on NFL Network. Don't know why he's listed at corner. The other scouting services I've seen have him listed at Safety.


January 19th, 2013, 11:28 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
I personally like Jonathon Banks.

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January 19th, 2013, 12:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
The Legend wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
im willing to bet that xavior rhodes will jump milliner in the draft. im surpised he hasnt already.


what makes you think that? i get the feeling that Rhodes is barely in the top 5 among CBs while Milliner is clearly the top CB in the class. I didnt think Rhodes had a very strong season and Milliner looks like the superior athlete to me.

I think they are both upgrades for us but I think Rhodes has better hands and is more likely to make the pick though Milliner will get a ton of knockdowns. I think Rhodes will be more of a playmaker. I also like Rhodes' size and think he can play any position in the secondary. Even though he is about 20lbs heavier than Milliner, I fully expect him to run a faster 40 at the combine. not that 40 times are super crucial but I think Rhodes has a higher ceiling and he is better equipped to man up with guys like B. Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, or Jordy Nelson at the LOS which we were unable to do at all last season. He plays with more juice and I think FSU asked him to do more with less over the top help than Milliner.

But FWIW I would not be at all upset if we ended up with Milliner

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January 20th, 2013, 5:58 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
I would be happy with either Milliner or Rhodes at #5. But, I hope we are able to trade down a couple spots and Grab an OT and then trade back up in to the bottom of the 1st and grab Banks. Or we could do the trade down and grab an OT and then stand pat in the 2nd and grab a Safety and then trade up to around pick # 50-55 range and grab Amerson. But, I definately want a CB by the time Amerson is off the boards.


January 20th, 2013, 11:17 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
jrd66 wrote:
I think I'd rather take a crack a Milliner at #5 or even Warmack as opposed to settling for the #3 DE in the pool as WJB calls it. Make a pick if there is not good trade down to be had if you find the value to be not as high as you might wish. You cannot draft value that is not there. The FO is under pressure, or at least we think so. We might see more reaching this year than in the past.

Lots of years we talk on this board and we speculate which CB is not worth drafting so high. If they can really play (or teams think they can) , they do go early. #5 is about the perfect spot to pick a CB in my mind. If Milliner is only worth the #8 spot, pick him and move along. The Lions are dying year after year in the D backfield. Maybe this year an impact player will be there when they pick...


If WJB is referring to Bjoern Werner as the #3 DE in the pool, he's on crack.


Where do you guys get this crap from? All I was saying is that if we do take a DE at #5, and he's the first DE off of the board, I really hope that we take the player that turns out to be the best DE in the draft. I have zero confidence in our scouting department and Martin Mayhew to make that determination, there seems to be 3-4 really good DEs, and I have a horrible gut feeling that we're going to take a guy at #5 that gets outplayed by a guy taken at pick 23.

Milliner, IMO, isn't worthy of the #5 pick. I do like his ball skills, but he looked slow to me. Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the combine. That may get him by in the NCAA, but if he is as slow as he looked in the Nat. Championship game, he'll get exposed in the NFL. If we DO draft Millner we're going to need a very good, very fast FS.

Still, I wish we would trade down, and fix the OL. The OL is the single most important unit on the field, on either side of the ball. The one thing that seemed consistent in the playoffs... The Qbs had a TON OF TIME to throw the ball. We may not get many sacks against us, but IMO that's mostly due to scheme and Staff getting the ball out quick. I never see Staff getting these 5+ seconds per snap that the Qbs in the playoffs get, and a LOT of that is due to the lack of respect for our running game.


Well, all crap aside. I think your fear has justification. I think a lot of DE are picked high and do not pan out. It might be interesting to look at the DE chosen in the top 10 to see how well the grades worked out. Some would clearly be right and others glaringly the opposite. Every year we are told about the great DE who are coming out and often they become Lawerence Jackson..

I doubt the top OT will be there at 5, since it seems there are not top QB talents in this draft. If Joeckel is really Joe Thomas again I will not gripe if the Lions pick him. As far as the CB, I like that Milliner can play the ball. I guess we will see how fast he times. The Lions have plenty of guys who can run but won't look for the ball to break up the play when it is there. If he runs 4.56 or something, maybe that is a concern. Once the combine rolls around, you can find out all of the measurable questions that always come up.

The prime positions seem to be QB, OT, CB and DE these days. They get overvalued and hence overdrafted. I don't much care anymore about value at pick #5 vs value at say pick #9. If the CB is your guy, pick him. If he can play like you (the team) think, he won't last 5 more spots.

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January 28th, 2013, 5:33 pm
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