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Last edited by Stallion on October 19th, 2008, 11:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.



September 22nd, 2008, 5:12 pm
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Boy would we suck for some years to come if we did that!!!

I wouldn't make that many whole-sale changes... But there WOULD be a TON if it were up to me. Kitna, for sure, would be gone, as would Foster. Backus would be nothing more than a stop-gap one year guy, assuming that I couldn't draft a LT. Roy would be franchised and sold to the highest bidder... Probably a 3rd at this point (told you we should have taken Sheppard and a 2nd for him LAST YEAR!!! Or a first rounder...). I'm sick of people telling me "I don't know what I'm talking about" and then watching something come true. The writing was all over the wall on Roy, some people just refused to read it.

On D I would keep Redding, Sims, and Bodden... Alexander and Bullocks would be stop gap safetys for now. Hilton, I mean Lennon, would be gone. Alex Lewis and our depth guys would stick around. I would keep White, AIF, Avril, and Devrise as DE's, but I would be looking to upgrade them. More importantly, I think we need to see what our rookie DT has... Darby hasn't shown me anything... Some "War Daddy"... I'd cut him based upon what I've seen so far. I would keep Keith Smith and Brian Kelly as stop-gap DBs and replace fisher with a draft pick. Dizon would be kept long enough to be evaluated, but I haven't liked what he's shown so far.

I can't even say who I would draft because there are too many holes to count. A good LT would probably help this team more than any other position, but a REAL DE is a must have, along with a top-notch SSLB, and a SS or CB could do this team wonders. If we could be a solid corner opposite Bodden it would be a tremendous help. I can say that one of my first three picks would DEFINITELY be a RG though, and that is probably true for the next 3 years (OG, OG, C or backup OT... we need OL help BADLY and we need OL depth BADLY).


September 22nd, 2008, 7:02 pm
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I would trade Roy and still believe if they trade him in season to a team like the Cowboys will get at least a 2nd rounder if not more. The Dolphins received a 2nd rounder for Chambers last season at the trade deadline and Roy's upside is higher than what the Chargers were hoping for in getting him. I would bring in a real DT that can hold the point and get some push. I know the Rogers supporters are going to say the Lions had that, but I want a guy that can play most of the game and season with out looking likehe's about ot have a heart attack. There have been plenty of big DTs that aren't in as poor of shape as Rogers. Big Sam Adams and Ted Washington were big men that anchored defenses and were in it to win it from the start to finish.

As far as Backus he would of only received a one year tag if I had my way and they would of drafted Barnes in the 2nd round instead of Cody. Barnes isn't the greatest LT to ever play but in the 2nd round he was a great value pick and has been pretty solid as a run blocker and pass protector. So to me Backus would all ready be gone and if there were no biters for a trade I'd just let him go. I would retain Raiola though but only to give his eventual replacement time to earn the spot. Kitna I'd have open talks going on right now with teams like the Chiefs, Ravens, Vikings, and 49ers. Every one of those teams could use Kitna at the very least as a valuable backup.

If they were to go to a 3-4 I think retaining DeVries and Redding would be a smart move. Both fit the mold of a 3-4 DE and would help fill at least two roster spots IAF is also built for that position. Sims is a little small for the 3-4 which is why I'm assuming you would trade him but for any team running a 4-3 he is worth a mid to late 1st round pick or at least a 2nd rounder plus. He hasn't been dominate in Detroit as far as big plays but that has more to do with his aggressive playing style not fitting in with the Cover 2 system.

It's tough to make a transition to a 3-4 team but at the DE spot I think they would have at least a pretty good building point. At OLB spot they could use Avril and Corey Smith for at least a season or two to at least give them a couple of guys that rush the passer. Both of them would need a lot of work on sropping into coverage but that would be expected. The entire LB group would have to be scrapped as none of them are strong enough at the point of attack to hold up in a 3-4 scheme. At CB I'd keep Bodden and Keith Smith as they are both much better man coverage CBs and would look much better in a situation that allows them to play to their strengths. Brian Kelly would be a nice Nickel guy and allow for one less hole that would need to be field for a year or two. At S I'd keep both Bullocks and Alexander, even if they never become great starters they would be good backups at a good price. So in my scenario the Liosn would keep 10 guys from the current roster in making the switch to a 3-4.

On offense as I said Backus, Roy, and Kitna would be gone. I'd also scrap the TE position and find a legit threat at that position that can keep the Ss and LBs occupied. This if not more than anything else is darn close to being a big reason the Lions have not been very good for quite sometime. Nearly every good offense in today's NFL has a receiving threat at TE. Filling that void instead of overpaying for Roy would help open up some room for Johnson. I'd keep Furrey bring back Standeford and Middleton to compete for a spot and draft a guy like Brandon Tate as a return guy and WR as long as he doesn't move himself too high up the draft charts. At RB bring back Smith, see if Rudi wants to come back, but also look for a HR hitter in the draft and keep Felton for now. The QB position is tough because I'm not a fan of Stanton but I think he has to be given a look next season at least though training camp. After that I'd look at bringing in a big arm FA like Boller or Losman. Neither one is going to make the team great but they can get the ball downfield in a hurry to take advantage of Johnson's size and speed. For the 3rd spot I'd look draft for a smart QB with a good arm and quick release. On the line keep Raiola to at least be an insurance policy at the C position. I'm not sure if Scott has been picked up yet? If not I'd bring him back right now and let Foster go yesterday. I'd also keep Cherilus and hope to see continued progress every game. So on offense they'd still have nine guys in Cherilus, Smith, Johnson, Furrey, Stanton, Felton, Raiola, Scott and Rudi if they re-signed them.

In essence the Lions would be an expansion team but would have an okay base of talent to build upon. The big key is to get a franchise LT in Detroit to protect the future QB of the Lions. After that get some road graders at the OG spots and some playmakers on defense. If this whole thing were to play out they would have to do it completely opposite of the way Millen tried to do it. They can't go after the FAs that are just looking to get paid. Every FA is looking to get paid but Millen went over the top in paying FAs during his tenure. They need to find some solid guys that have flashes to get a solid base and then add on through the draft and one or two improvements each year through FA. Millen kept thinking he could make a five year plan into a one year plan and has cost the Lions every year. Any big name FA that were to come to Detroit right away under a new regime would do so just for the money or they would be extremely loyal to the new HC and/or GM.

The Giants, Packers, Chargers, Bills, and Chargers have done pretty good for themselves in recent history using the draft and a few key FAs sprinkled in to turn their teams around. With competent GMs so there's no reason that with the right GM the Lions can't do the same. I wonder if Floyd Reese is looking to come out of retirement?


September 22nd, 2008, 7:05 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
Boy would we suck for some years to come if we did that!!!

I wouldn't make that many whole-sale changes... But there WOULD be a TON if it were up to me. Kitna, for sure, would be gone, as would Foster. Backus would be nothing more than a stop-gap one year guy, assuming that I couldn't draft a LT. Roy would be franchised and sold to the highest bidder... Probably a 3rd at this point (told you we should have taken Sheppard and a 2nd for him LAST YEAR!!! Or a first rounder...). I'm sick of people telling me "I don't know what I'm talking about" and then watching something come true. The writing was all over the wall on Roy, some people just refused to read it.

On D I would keep Redding, Sims, and Bodden... Alexander and Bullocks would be stop gap safetys for now. Hilton, I mean Lennon, would be gone. Alex Lewis and our depth guys would stick around. I would keep White, AIF, Avril, and Devrise as DE's, but I would be looking to upgrade them. More importantly, I think we need to see what our rookie DT has... Darby hasn't shown me anything... Some "War Daddy"... I'd cut him based upon what I've seen so far. I would keep Keith Smith and Brian Kelly as stop-gap DBs and replace fisher with a draft pick. Dizon would be kept long enough to be evaluated, but I haven't liked what he's shown so far.

I can't even say who I would draft because there are too many holes to count. A good LT would probably help this team more than any other position, but a REAL DE is a must have, along with a top-notch SSLB, and a SS or CB could do this team wonders. If we could be a solid corner opposite Bodden it would be a tremendous help. I can say that one of my first three picks would DEFINITELY be a RG though, and that is probably true for the next 3 years (OG, OG, C or backup OT... we need OL help BADLY and we need OL depth BADLY).


From what I recall I was with you for the Roy trading, exspecially when draft day rolled around and Mendenhall fell and knowing Desean Jackson was in the 2nd waiting for us to be a WR and KR along with Johnson, Furrey, McDonald. This wasnt as serious as it just releaved some tension.
I just feel like all our players just go throw the motion, say what they need to say to us to give us hope, then put out minimal effort. I mean dont get me wrong this roster is very devoid of talent but they cant be this bad.

On a side note though I agree with what you have said...if I were to seriously build a team would be thru the lines.

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September 22nd, 2008, 10:44 pm
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Trade Sims? You've lost your mind...

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September 23rd, 2008, 7:13 am
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steensn wrote:
Trade Sims? You've lost your mind...


Steen... He said switch to a 3-4 D... Sims isn't big enough to play in the 3-4... A player that I don't believe was mentioned for the system, however, is Cliff Avril, who is MUCH better suited for that style of D.


September 23rd, 2008, 11:27 am
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
Trade Sims? You've lost your mind...


Steen... He said switch to a 3-4 D... Sims isn't big enough to play in the 3-4... A player that I don't believe was mentioned for the system, however, is Cliff Avril, who is MUCH better suited for that style of D.


Oh, I'm not "deep" in football to know the in and outs of the sizes needed to play different defenses. I'm still 100% sure we could get a 1st for him though.

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September 23rd, 2008, 12:20 pm
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sweetd20 wrote:
I would trade Roy and still believe if they trade him in season to a team like the Cowboys will get at least a 2nd rounder if not more.

I still don't understand why anyone thinks the Cowboys would trade for Roy. They currently have the best WR in football in T.O., and the other WRs they have are good compliments to him. What possible reason would they have to give up a 2nd rounder for a good, but not great WR? It's not going to happen. A team who is desperate for a good WR might give up something for Roy, but I don't even see that happening. This Cowboys thing is nuts though. Just because Roy is from Texas doesn't mean the Cowboys would be dumb about it. Jerry Jones cares about winning over anything else, and giving up a 2nd rounder (or more) for Roy is not a winning move.


September 23rd, 2008, 12:24 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
Trade Sims? You've lost your mind...


Steen... He said switch to a 3-4 D... Sims isn't big enough to play in the 3-4... A player that I don't believe was mentioned for the system, however, is Cliff Avril, who is MUCH better suited for that style of D.


Truth be known, I think Sims could survive as a ILB in the 3-4 D. The footnote on that is that you'd have to have a massive NT, and the strong side ILB would have to be a pretty big guy. In the 3-4, the weakside ILB is often the player who will be relied upon to give pursuit and it isn't necessary that he take on any lead blockers too often. The players the Lions have that would fit the front seven of that defense would be:
Cliff Avril - OLB
Andre Fluellen - NT
Cory Redding - DE
Jared Devries - DE
IAF - DE
Landon Cohen - DE
Ernie Sims - ILB

The real problem right now is that there are no other players who could man the other OLB spot, and no depth at that position. Also, who would play the SILB spot? And I am not exactly sure where Dewayne White would fit a 3-4 scheme.

I would prefer to see the Lions employ a hybrid style defense, using a mixture of the two defenses.


September 23rd, 2008, 12:26 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
Trade Sims? You've lost your mind...


Steen... He said switch to a 3-4 D... Sims isn't big enough to play in the 3-4... A player that I don't believe was mentioned for the system, however, is Cliff Avril, who is MUCH better suited for that style of D.


Truth be known, I think Sims could survive as a ILB in the 3-4 D. The footnote on that is that you'd have to have a massive NT, and the strong side ILB would have to be a pretty big guy. In the 3-4, the weakside ILB is often the player who will be relied upon to give pursuit and it isn't necessary that he take on any lead blockers too often. The players the Lions have that would fit the front seven of that defense would be:
Cliff Avril - OLB
Andre Fluellen - NT
Cory Redding - DE
Jared Devries - DE
IAF - DE
Landon Cohen - DE
Ernie Sims - ILB

The real problem right now is that there are no other players who could man the other OLB spot, and no depth at that position. Also, who would play the SILB spot? And I am not exactly sure where Dewayne White would fit a 3-4 scheme.

I would prefer to see the Lions employ a hybrid style defense, using a mixture of the two defenses.


Fluellen would be destroyed as a 3-4 NT, he'd be better off in the 3-4 at the DE spot. He'd have to bulk up a lot and put on a lot of weight and strength to be able to play NT in a 3-4, heck he isn't even a NT in the Tampa 2, lol. Let alone the 3-4


September 23rd, 2008, 1:54 pm
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I agree... I think Langston Moore might be a better NT


September 23rd, 2008, 2:03 pm
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Touchdown Jesus wrote:
I still don't understand why anyone thinks the Cowboys would trade for Roy. They currently have the best WR in football in T.O., and the other WRs they have are good compliments to him. What possible reason would they have to give up a 2nd rounder for a good, but not great WR? It's not going to happen. A team who is desperate for a good WR might give up something for Roy, but I don't even see that happening. This Cowboys thing is nuts though. Just because Roy is from Texas doesn't mean the Cowboys would be dumb about it. Jerry Jones cares about winning over anything else, and giving up a 2nd rounder (or more) for Roy is not a winning move.


Because TO is near the end of his career and I'm not so sure the Cowboys are sold on Crayton as the #2 and definately not as the future replacement for TO. Also their depth at the WR position is pitiful. If Crayton or especially TO goes down for any significant amount of time their season is basically over. Roy has his flaws but I think that hooking up with TO and learning his practice habits would take him to the level he should be at in his career. The Texas thing would be a big deal for the Cowboys and Roy. Look at how Roy treats the young fans in Detroit and imagine what Roy would do in his home state. Jerry Jones likes to win Super Bowls but he likes making money even more.


September 23rd, 2008, 4:25 pm
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sweetd20 wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
I still don't understand why anyone thinks the Cowboys would trade for Roy. They currently have the best WR in football in T.O., and the other WRs they have are good compliments to him. What possible reason would they have to give up a 2nd rounder for a good, but not great WR? It's not going to happen. A team who is desperate for a good WR might give up something for Roy, but I don't even see that happening. This Cowboys thing is nuts though. Just because Roy is from Texas doesn't mean the Cowboys would be dumb about it. Jerry Jones cares about winning over anything else, and giving up a 2nd rounder (or more) for Roy is not a winning move.


Because TO is near the end of his career and I'm not so sure the Cowboys are sold on Crayton as the #2 and definately not as the future replacement for TO. Also their depth at the WR position is pitiful. If Crayton or especially TO goes down for any significant amount of time their season is basically over. Roy has his flaws but I think that hooking up with TO and learning his practice habits would take him to the level he should be at in his career. The Texas thing would be a big deal for the Cowboys and Roy. Look at how Roy treats the young fans in Detroit and imagine what Roy would do in his home state. Jerry Jones likes to win Super Bowls but he likes making money even more.

The only way Jerry would ever give up anything to get Roy is if TO gets injured. Why would he give up anything for him now when he knows he can probably just wait til this off-season and get him then? Not to mention the fact that I think the people on this board overstate Roy's value big time. I think he's viewed by the rest of the league as an average WR.


September 23rd, 2008, 4:38 pm
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The Cowboys are a Superbowl contender, he would give up something THIS SEASON because he has a healthy TO and a strong chance at a SB THIS SEASON. Who knows what TO is going to look like next season... A healthy TO is just as much of a reason to go after Roy now as an injured TO. Further, Dallas would get to begin instituting TO's work ethic in Roy now, while he's still got it.

I'm not saying that TO is going to retire after this season, or he's going to completely fall apart. However, TO had what could have been or almost was a career ending injury when he was with Phili.... There's always that chance, and Dallas is MUCH better off having Roy AND a healthy TO together.


September 23rd, 2008, 5:02 pm
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Rob_Shadows wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
Trade Sims? You've lost your mind...


Steen... He said switch to a 3-4 D... Sims isn't big enough to play in the 3-4... A player that I don't believe was mentioned for the system, however, is Cliff Avril, who is MUCH better suited for that style of D.


Truth be known, I think Sims could survive as a ILB in the 3-4 D. The footnote on that is that you'd have to have a massive NT, and the strong side ILB would have to be a pretty big guy. In the 3-4, the weakside ILB is often the player who will be relied upon to give pursuit and it isn't necessary that he take on any lead blockers too often. The players the Lions have that would fit the front seven of that defense would be:
Cliff Avril - OLB
Andre Fluellen - NT
Cory Redding - DE
Jared Devries - DE
IAF - DE
Landon Cohen - DE
Ernie Sims - ILB

The real problem right now is that there are no other players who could man the other OLB spot, and no depth at that position. Also, who would play the SILB spot? And I am not exactly sure where Dewayne White would fit a 3-4 scheme.

I would prefer to see the Lions employ a hybrid style defense, using a mixture of the two defenses.


Fluellen would be destroyed as a 3-4 NT, he'd be better off in the 3-4 at the DE spot. He'd have to bulk up a lot and put on a lot of weight and strength to be able to play NT in a 3-4, heck he isn't even a NT in the Tampa 2, lol. Let alone the 3-4


Oops. I meant to put Langston Moore as the NT and Fluellen as a DE in the 3-4. Shaun Cody wasn't included because I think he's garbage no matter what position/system you put him in.


September 24th, 2008, 9:18 am
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