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 What the Lions SHOULD do in '09 
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Stallion wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Stallion wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Not to pull a Don Imus, but these black guys gotta STOP going to these damn clubs! One guy gets suspended for a crime because of issues at a night club, so the next guy goes. Theyre stupid. You have the greatest job in the world and you go to these dang nightclubs. As long as Spikes stays away from nightclubs, he should be alright in the NFL.


wow...soudns a little bit racist


Say what you want, but you dont hear of a white guy involved in a crime at a nightclub very often. Theyre stupid. My job isnt anywhere NEAR what the NFL pays and I still try and stay away from any trouble because im very lucky to have the job I have. Not these fancy NFL stars though. Stupid.


Like dh86 said Jared Allen,Matt Jones and Kerry Collins have all gotten in trouble.

Also I am willing to bet more athletes both white and black go to clubs and don't get in trouble in comparision to those who do get in trouble. Individuals who do get in trouble may have done something stupid and gotten in trouble but it has nothing to do with race. I don't have any percentages or anything but im pretty sure there are a lot more black players in the NFL then white players also making the chances of you hearing of something bad happening with a balck player more likely.


And...

wjb21ndtown wrote:
Regarding the black/white issue...

1) It's more the location of the clubs than the individual person, IMO. Most of the inner city stars happen to be black, and most people from those areas tend to go back to those areas, or party in similar areas. My Detroit friends can't stand going to Royal Oak, Birmingham, or Grosse Pointe. They generally party in Detroit or at the ghetto bars in the suburbs.

2) It's more the "friends" that are the problem than the individual. These people have to learn that "if they want things they've never had they have to do things they've never done." Instead they want to do the same things that they did in the City, and hang around with the same people (i.e. be the big fish in a little pond... their area of the ghetto) and they end up getting into trouble.

3) I will admitt, however that these athletes are making stupid decisions as individuals. Bringing a gun to a bar when you are a multimillionare is just plain stupid. For one, you can afford to go to any club in the world, so why don't you pick one that has good security, and for two, if you're that worried about it PAY someone to be your body guard. Pay someone with a CCW permit and some sort of license to carry it.


Decisions - good or bad - are not race specific. People of all races & gender make both good and bad ones.

Bad decisions include but are not limited to:

1) Taking a gun anywhere other than hunting or to a shooting range.
2) Drinking in a topless bar while carrying a gun.
3) Handling said gun in any fashion in the bar having had a drink.
4) Shooting self in leg while in bar having had a drink (see Plaxico Burress)
5) Being prepared to fight with said gun for any reason - especially the standard reason given most frequently... "I was disrespected"
6) Not realizing that if YOU had to be searched just to get into the bar... There's a good chance someone else in the bar has a gun. So maybe there are safer bars with girls that look as good or better.
7) Being friends or hanging out with anyone guilty of 1-6.

To many athletes make dumb decisions that they can easily regret for the rest of their life because they think they're special and / or just don't feel the rules apply to them. (Which in of itself is a bad decision). They know they're in the wrong but they just choose to do it anyway. Stuff we ALL learned not to do by about age 12 - they just do it anyway. They have more to lose than most others, therefore, more is to be expected of them because they have resources and opportunities many others don't, and therefore, their stupid mistakes are magnified even more.

Stupid is as stupid does.

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December 15th, 2008, 1:01 pm
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Hey everyone, its my first post here (I used to read the forums over at firemillen.com and came over here from their reference). I wanted to throw out what I would do as far as getting the Lions back in shape. A lot of this may be far-fetched, but we can dream, right?

Before the draft comes, we will most likely have the firing of Marinelli. After that will come the rebirth which starts with the hiring of the GM. I personally hope we go with Scott Pioli or Floyd Reese. Both of these guys have the track record of drafting and winning, both in the regular season and in the playoffs. Both of them would bring perks. Bringing in Pioli would probably get you McDaniels and Cassel, and bringing in Reese would get you a defensive minded GM and we all know that defense wins championships, offense fills the seats.

It would either be S. Pioli(GM), J. McDaniels(HC/OC), S. Spagnuolo (DC) or F. Reese (GM). I really don't know where he would go with a head coach and offensive coordinator, but I'd love to see a defensive minded coach like a B. Cowher.

Either way, no more GM's that don't have prior experience. I don't care if they have been a broadcaster or not, just a winning management record. Also either way, no drafting a qb early this year (if we do, it should be on day 2 of the draft). If Pioli is the head guy, we start Cassel. If Reese is the head guy, we sign Orlovsky for one year and let him go at it.

Alright, so now we'll get back on track and start with the draft. I'd love to see us start hyping up Crabtree so that we can trade our number one pick to the Raiders. They'll draft him, they're still plagued with Al Davis. That would be swapping our #1 for #5 first round and taking their #5 round 2.

I want to concentrate on fixing our defense. A majority of our picks should go there, and we should try to get a dedicated KR/PR in the later rounds if we have a chance. Also, I have Dallas picking at 23.

Round 1(5) - Malcolm Jenkins (CB/Ohio State)
Round 1(23) - B. Raji (DT/Boston College)
Round 2(1) - T. Mays (S/USC)
Round 2(5) - A. Boone (OT/Ohio State)
Round 3(1) - T. Beckum (TE/Wisconsin)
Round 3(23) - D. Ellerbe (LB/Georgia)
Round 5(1) - J. Shipley (WR/Texas) (This would be my KR/PR conversion)
Round 6(1) - A. Kemp (OG/Wisconsin)
Round 6(23) - J. Westerman (DE/Rutgers)
Round 7(1) - T. Boeckman (QB/Ohio State)

That puts us at 5 defensive picks, 4 offensive picks, and 1 special teams pick. 2 of the 4 offensive picks were late round, second day drafts anyways. I would probably fall over in disbelief if the Lions could pull something together like I've described above. Something even close would really impress me. I guess only time will tell, go Lions!


December 20th, 2008, 8:31 am
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Malcolm Jenkins at #1? No way.

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December 20th, 2008, 12:38 pm
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kdsberman wrote:
Malcolm Jenkins at #1? No way.


Read his post... he has a trade down to #5....


That aside, faulkn22...
I would rather look at LB at #5 than a CB. I think Leigh Bodden can be a serviceable #1 CB if we play more man coverage. We still do need a #2 CB, but I wouldn't want to take a CB with our #1 first round pick (even if it is at spot 5), when we can't stop the run. A team doesn't have to pass to beat us. I realize that you have a DT with our 2nd first round pick, but I'll get to that in a minute. If we trade down somehow I would love to make it down to 8 and take Malaluga or Curry (not necessarily in that order). Our LB corps is one of the worst in the NFL, by far! If there were a true NT in this draft (I don't see one when I look over the DTs, help me out if you do), I wouldn't mind taking one with our 2nd first round pick (there isn't a DT worthy of our 1st first round pick), and I would switch to a 3-4. I REALLY wish we didn't get rid of S. Rog, because I think he could have been great for us in the 3-4, but oh well, that's water under the bridge now...

For our 2nd first round pick I wouldn't even look at Raji. I might get some flack for that, but I'm skeptical of BC's DT's. They are both good, but part of the reason they are both good is because... well... they're both good! Raji benefitted greatly from playing next to Ron Brace, and that kind of makes me weary of his play. Brace is bigger than Raji and it makes me wonder how much of Raji's play was due to Brace being double teamed??? I would rather look at someone like U of M's Terrance Taylor, who might be there in the 3rd or 4th round. Terrance Taylor, Ron Brace, or Dorrell Scott (Clemson) are all players that I would rather look at later in the draft than taking Raji here at you're projected 23.

I don't know if William Moore or Taylor Mays or Myron Rolle are going to be available with the first pick in the 2nd round, but I couldn't argue with picking any of them.

Alex Mack is a player that I think we HAVE to look at with either our 2nd first round pick or our 2nd round pick. Max Unger, Johnathan Lugis, and Antione Caldwell are other possible C's that look good, but of them I like Alex Mack the most, by far! We're going to need a new C with Dom's blow-up towards the fans. I think that we should do what we can to trade Dom in the first round for a 3rd - 4th round pick, and take Alex Mack before someone else scoops him up. Many on here will say that Raiola does not have any trade value, but I disagree. He is great at calling the blitz, and in either a cut block scheme like Denver, a scheme like Indy, or in a scheme where they already have two good OGs I think Dom would be a good C and worthy of a 3rd - 4th round pick. For the right team Doms services are definitely worth a pick in the 3rd - 4th round, where you generally get project players, risks, and special teams guys.


Last edited by wjb21ndtown on December 20th, 2008, 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.



December 20th, 2008, 12:55 pm
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I was going to say, read a little closer there champ. Scouts Inc has Jenkins at 5 and I agree with them.


December 20th, 2008, 1:10 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Malcolm Jenkins at #1? No way.


Read his post... he has a trade down to #5....


That aside, faulkn22...
I would rather look at LB at #5 than a CB. I think Leigh Bodden can be a serviceable #1 CB if we play more man coverage. We still do need a #2 CB, but I wouldn't want to take a CB with our #1 first round pick (even if it is at spot 5), when we can't stop the run. A team doesn't have to pass to beat us. I realize that you have a DT with our 2nd first round pick, but I'll get to that in a minute. If we trade down somehow I would love to make it down to 8 and take Malaluga or Curry (not necessarily in that order). Our LB corps is one of the worst in the NFL, by far! If there were a true NT in this draft (I don't see one when I look over the DTs, help me out if you do), I wouldn't mind taking one with our 2nd first round pick (there isn't a DT worthy of our 1st first round pick), and I would switch to a 3-4. I REALLY wish we didn't get rid of S. Rog, because I think he could have been great for us in the 3-4, but oh well, that's water under the bridge now...

For our 2nd first round pick I wouldn't even look at Raji. I might get some flack for that, but I'm skeptical of BC's DT's. They are both good, but part of the reason they are both good is because... well... they're both good! Raji benefitted greatly from playing next to Ron Brace, and that kind of makes me weary of his play. Brace is bigger than Raji and it makes me wonder how much of Raji's play was due to Brace being double teamed??? I would rather look at someone like U of M's Terrance Taylor, who might be there in the 3rd or 4th round. Terrance Taylor, Ron Brace, or Dorrell Scott (Clemson) are all players that I would rather look at later in the draft than taking Raji here at you're projected 23.

I don't know if William Moore or Taylor Mays or Myron Rolle are going to be available with the first pick in the 2nd round, but I couldn't argue with picking any of them.

Alex Mack is a player that I think we HAVE to look at with either our 2nd first round pick or our 2nd round pick. Max Unger, Johnathan Lugis, and Antione Caldwell are other possible C's that look good, but of them I like Alex Mack the most, by far! We're going to need a new C with Dom's blow-up towards the fans. I think that we should do what we can to trade Dom in the first round for a 3rd - 4th round pick, and take Alex Mack before someone else scoops him up. Many on here will say that Raiola does not have any trade value, but I disagree. He is great at calling the blitz, and in either a cut block scheme like Denver, a scheme like Indy, or in a scheme where they already have two good OGs I think Dom would be a good C and worthy of a 3rd - 4th round pick. For the right team Doms services are definitely worth a pick in the 3rd - 4th round, where you generally get project players, risks, and special teams guys.


I did read his post, and thats why i say, No way.

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December 20th, 2008, 1:27 pm
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We must have been replying at the same time at that last post, lol.

I wanted someone like a Terrence Cody instead of Raji, but I was realistic in thinking that he'll be gone at that point.

You want to switch to a 3-4 when we don't have enough good lb's for a 4-3? Just curious.


December 20th, 2008, 1:33 pm
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Honestly, im not sure whether id rather have a 3-4 or 4-3. Id like to say 4-3, but I guess it all depends on the coach. You know, it would be nice to have Jenkins because our corners suck. I guess just as of now at the #5 Id still like a top linebacker if we couldnt get an O-tackle. A lot can and will change from now until the draft.

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December 20th, 2008, 1:37 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Malcolm Jenkins at #1? No way.


Read his post... he has a trade down to #5....


That aside, faulkn22...
I would rather look at LB at #5 than a CB. I think Leigh Bodden can be a serviceable #1 CB if we play more man coverage. We still do need a #2 CB, but I wouldn't want to take a CB with our #1 first round pick (even if it is at spot 5), when we can't stop the run. A team doesn't have to pass to beat us. I realize that you have a DT with our 2nd first round pick, but I'll get to that in a minute. If we trade down somehow I would love to make it down to 8 and take Malaluga or Curry (not necessarily in that order). Our LB corps is one of the worst in the NFL, by far! If there were a true NT in this draft (I don't see one when I look over the DTs, help me out if you do), I wouldn't mind taking one with our 2nd first round pick (there isn't a DT worthy of our 1st first round pick), and I would switch to a 3-4. I REALLY wish we didn't get rid of S. Rog, because I think he could have been great for us in the 3-4, but oh well, that's water under the bridge now...

For our 2nd first round pick I wouldn't even look at Raji. I might get some flack for that, but I'm skeptical of BC's DT's. They are both good, but part of the reason they are both good is because... well... they're both good! Raji benefitted greatly from playing next to Ron Brace, and that kind of makes me weary of his play. Brace is bigger than Raji and it makes me wonder how much of Raji's play was due to Brace being double teamed??? I would rather look at someone like U of M's Terrance Taylor, who might be there in the 3rd or 4th round. Terrance Taylor, Ron Brace, or Dorrell Scott (Clemson) are all players that I would rather look at later in the draft than taking Raji here at you're projected 23.

I don't know if William Moore or Taylor Mays or Myron Rolle are going to be available with the first pick in the 2nd round, but I couldn't argue with picking any of them.

Alex Mack is a player that I think we HAVE to look at with either our 2nd first round pick or our 2nd round pick. Max Unger, Johnathan Lugis, and Antione Caldwell are other possible C's that look good, but of them I like Alex Mack the most, by far! We're going to need a new C with Dom's blow-up towards the fans. I think that we should do what we can to trade Dom in the first round for a 3rd - 4th round pick, and take Alex Mack before someone else scoops him up. Many on here will say that Raiola does not have any trade value, but I disagree. He is great at calling the blitz, and in either a cut block scheme like Denver, a scheme like Indy, or in a scheme where they already have two good OGs I think Dom would be a good C and worthy of a 3rd - 4th round pick. For the right team Doms services are definitely worth a pick in the 3rd - 4th round, where you generally get project players, risks, and special teams guys.


Who the hell would give up a 3rd round pick for a 30 year old center when they can just use the 3rd on a 22 year old? Raiola is staring down the end of his career. Denver has the best offensive line in the NFL and the Colts lead the league in sack rate. They will not trade for Raiola. Passing on a top flight corner in the draft just because you have a decent one makes no sense. The Raiders have Nnamdi who may be the best player in the NFL and all teams need to do is throw to the other side. Problem solved.Given a proper trade down, I would be alright with taking Jenkins at 5 and ending the Travis Fisher run here.


December 20th, 2008, 1:43 pm
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dh86 wrote:
Who the hell would give up a 3rd round pick for a 30 year old center when they can just use the 3rd on a 22 year old? Raiola is staring down the end of his career. Denver has the best offensive line in the NFL and the Colts lead the league in sack rate. They will not trade for Raiola. Passing on a top flight corner in the draft just because you have a decent one makes no sense. The Raiders have Nnamdi who may be the best player in the NFL and all teams need to do is throw to the other side. Problem solved.Given a proper trade down, I would be alright with taking Jenkins at 5 and ending the Travis Fisher run here.


Any team that still needs a C in the 3rd or 4th round would trade for Raiola, rather than pick up a project player that can't start for 2-3 years, and might not ever be good. There are teams that are GOOD RIGHT NOW, that can't wait for a player to develope both mentally and physcailly for 2-3 years. You don't have to do that with Raiola. With Raiola you have an immediate starter from day 1, and you know what you're getting, and YOU might think poorly of him but around the LEAGUE he's regarded as being a good OC.


Who cares if we can't stop the pass, we have to first be able to stop the run. As it stands a team DOESN'T HAVE TO PASS AGAINST US AT ALL. Maybe you didn't watch the Tenn. game or Minny. games... :roll: Our pass defense is a HELLUVA lot better than our run defese, and perhaps you didn't notice, but I DID advocate drafting a DB, we need safetys more so than we need CBs.


We're not going to be good next year, you can forget about fixing everything this year. We're GOING TO HAVE HOLES! Get over it...


December 20th, 2008, 1:58 pm
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If I were the Colts I would consider picking up Raiola for a 3rd or 4th round pick, as Saturday has been hurt, he's 3 years older than Raiola, and he seems to be on the down side of his career. I'm not sure what Raiola's contract looks like in terms of salary/roster bonuses, but it could be very cheap given that he just signed an extention and just got a hefty signing bonus from us. Further, Saturday is a good C, no doubt, but he's undersized just like Raiola, but they seem to use him just fine.

Further, if I were NE I would give up a 3rd or 4th to get Raiola, they're starting Dan Koppen, a 2003 5th round pick that, from what I understand, they're not entirely happy about and looking to replace. Again, he is yet ANOTHER undersized guy that is used very well in NE. Like it or not a team that is ready to WIN NOW is NOT going to get a better C than Raiola in the 3rd or 4th round. It's simply not going to happen.


December 20th, 2008, 2:09 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
dh86 wrote:
Who the hell would give up a 3rd round pick for a 30 year old center when they can just use the 3rd on a 22 year old? Raiola is staring down the end of his career. Denver has the best offensive line in the NFL and the Colts lead the league in sack rate. They will not trade for Raiola. Passing on a top flight corner in the draft just because you have a decent one makes no sense. The Raiders have Nnamdi who may be the best player in the NFL and all teams need to do is throw to the other side. Problem solved.Given a proper trade down, I would be alright with taking Jenkins at 5 and ending the Travis Fisher run here.


Any team that still needs a C in the 3rd or 4th round would trade for Raiola, rather than pick up a project player that can't start for 2-3 years, and might not ever be good. There are teams that are GOOD RIGHT NOW, that can't wait for a player to develope both mentally and physcailly for 2-3 years. You don't have to do that with Raiola. With Raiola you have an immediate starter from day 1, and you know what you're getting, and YOU might think poorly of him but around the LEAGUE he's regarded as being a good OC.


Who cares if we can't stop the pass, we have to first be able to stop the run. As it stands a team DOESN'T HAVE TO PASS AGAINST US AT ALL. Maybe you didn't watch the Tenn. game or Minny. games... :roll: Our pass defense is a HELLUVA lot better than our run defese, and perhaps you didn't notice, but I DID advocate drafting a DB, we need safetys more so than we need CBs.


We're not going to be good next year, you can forget about fixing everything this year. We're GOING TO HAVE HOLES! Get over it...


The Lions defensive passer rating is 108.4. Good for the worst in NFL history. Including numerous QBs having the best games of their careers this season against the Lions. The Lions have the worst pass defense along with the worst rush defense, but their pass defense is considerably worse. The kind of LB the Lions can take in the draft depends on the defense we run next season. Malcolm Jenkins fits every defense. The Lions have 8 draft picks and over 30 million in cap room. The Lions can absolutely compete next season. Depends on the moves they make.


December 20th, 2008, 2:17 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
If I were the Colts I would consider picking up Raiola for a 3rd or 4th round pick, as Saturday has been hurt, he's 3 years older than Raiola, and he seems to be on the down side of his career. I'm not sure what Raiola's contract looks like in terms of salary/roster bonuses, but it could be very cheap given that he just signed an extention and just got a hefty signing bonus from us. Further, Saturday is a good C, no doubt, but he's undersized just like Raiola, but they seem to use him just fine.

Further, if I were NE I would give up a 3rd or 4th to get Raiola, they're starting Dan Koppen, a 2003 5th round pick that, from what I understand, they're not entirely happy about and looking to replace. Again, he is yet ANOTHER undersized guy that is used very well in NE. Like it or not a team that is ready to WIN NOW is NOT going to get a better C than Raiola in the 3rd or 4th round. It's simply not going to happen.


Whens the last time either team traded a mid round pick for an aging veteran? There are reasons why certain teams win. The only trade I can remember is the Patriots trading for Randy Moss. Wonder why the Redskins never meet expectations?


December 20th, 2008, 2:22 pm
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dh86 wrote:
Whens the last time either team traded a mid round pick for an aging veteran? There are reasons why certain teams win. The only trade I can remember is the Patriots trading for Randy Moss. Wonder why the Redskins never meet expectations?


They traded a FIRST DAY pick for Corey Dillon, on top of the pick they gave up for Randy Moss.

I believe that the reason mid-day picks aren't traded more often for starting caliber talent is that the other team doesn't want to give the player up for a mid-round pick.

The Patriots have been willing to do it when it makes sense, and HERE it makes sense. Like I said, they're NOT GOING TO GET a better C NEXT YEAR in the 3rd or 4th round.


December 20th, 2008, 2:54 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
dh86 wrote:
Whens the last time either team traded a mid round pick for an aging veteran? There are reasons why certain teams win. The only trade I can remember is the Patriots trading for Randy Moss. Wonder why the Redskins never meet expectations?


They traded a FIRST DAY pick for Corey Dillon, on top of the pick they gave up for Randy Moss.

I believe that the reason mid-day picks aren't traded more often for starting caliber talent is that the other team doesn't want to give the player up for a mid-round pick.

The Patriots have been willing to do it when it makes sense, and HERE it makes sense. Like I said, they're NOT GOING TO GET a better C NEXT YEAR in the 3rd or 4th round.


Even if a team would trade for Raiola, an instant contract renegotiation would be in store since he counts over 4 million against the cap for the team that trades for him. Koppen was a pro bowler just last year, been in the system for years and a year younger, there is exactly 0% chance that they or any team in the NFL would give up a 4th or higher for Raiola. Raiola does not have equivalent trade value to Shaun Rogers. The Patriots offensive line is doing a good job this season. The Patriots are the 2nd best team running up the middle. The Lions are dead last by a healthy margin. Belichick would be willingly making a strength of his team, a weakness. They will replace a lineman after the year, but the change will be at RT.The Lions will be making a change at Center, but we are just going to have to cut Raiola.


December 20th, 2008, 3:31 pm
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