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 QB or LT? 
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Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: December 27th, 2006, 4:53 pm
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FootballWiz wrote:
Why does everyone act like if we draft a QB #1 He will get killed behind our line?????

THAT IS ONLY IF WE TOTALLY NEGLECT THE O LINE FOR THE REST OF OUR DRAFT!!!!!!!!!

we can still get a QB #1 and a OG in the third and with a little help from free agency we could have one of the best young lines in the NFL

Backus 3rd rd OG Raiola Chris Snee Cherilus

That looks like a good O line.......PLUS we will have Stafford..WOW


Snee reportedly signed a new six-year contract extension to remain a Giant through the 2014 season.[3] The deal has a base salary of $41.25 million and includes $17 million in guarantees. Snee also gets a $13.5 million signing bonus and can earn another $2 million in incentives. $23 million will be available in the first three seasons and his annual base average is $6.875 million


January 15th, 2009, 3:10 am
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Nice dh86, I've been looking for info like this for some time now. It's funny how we sit here and say, ohh well at least we have part of a team to build on. Well, from everyone elses perspective, we only have a few keepers.

Although I do have to question a poll like this that doesn't have Calvin Johnson the #1 receiver in the NFC North. That's the only thing that really bothered me while reading that. Good find, man!

PS: Looks like we need to work on drafting an entire new OL, lmao.


January 15th, 2009, 8:10 am
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These polls you speak of are people who do not understand football and just watch Sportscenter to get their knowledge. POLLS mean absolutely nothing.

Your math must be like
Alot of sacks+LT is an important position+Most of our sacks come up the middle = Raiola and Backus are bad.

You cant look at football with that kind of thinking.Let me guess you guys think Lenon did bad and Sims was great right?LMAO

And i will find a quote stating that Raiola is possibly the second best center in the leauge. It has been said many times.


January 15th, 2009, 4:30 pm
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The poll would be important considering that the ones conducting it were the vp's of the NFC north teams (and they couldn't vote for their players). I'd say that makes it about as accurate as it possibly could be. Please, by all means, go give us a source that uses that same criteria (front office personnel's opinions) with different answers. We'll be waiting right here for that one.


January 15th, 2009, 4:44 pm
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FootballWiz wrote:
These polls you speak of are people who do not understand football and just watch Sportscenter to get their knowledge. POLLS mean absolutely nothing.

Your math must be like
Alot of sacks+LT is an important position+Most of our sacks come up the middle = Raiola and Backus are bad.

You cant look at football with that kind of thinking.Let me guess you guys think Lenon did bad and Sims was great right?LMAO

And i will find a quote stating that Raiola is possibly the second best center in the leauge. It has been said many times.


With all respect, for those of us who watch the games (the vast majority of folks posting on this board) both Raiola and Backus suck.

Raiola I will give some credit, he seems like a good leader and has football smarts, problem is he gets manhandled - when was the last time you saw him get some push on the line. Doesn't happen. He isn't the second best center in the league, I don't care if someone said that. If he was that good he would have made at least one Pro Bowl since 2001, he hasn't even been mentioned as an alternate.

Backus is just bad. He can't handle speed or bull rushers, he doesn't have the size for power rushers or the footwork to handle speed rushers. Watch the games and you will see how many times Backus gets beat and I'm not just talking about sacks but play after play. Like Raiola, he also gets no push on the line. Some people say he is now past his prime, I say he was past his prime once he left Michigan.

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January 15th, 2009, 4:49 pm
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OK OK CHECK THIS OUT

I went through week by week and this is how GOOD Backus played. This isnt from some website.This is from me going back through all 16 games and WATCHING.No better way to see then having all 16 games

BACKUS SACKS ALLOWED AND BY WHO
ATL Abraham had 2 sacks on backus(Backus worst game of the year)
IND Freeney 0 Sacks(elite DE)
MIN Allen had 3 sacks..Only 2 on Backus(elite DE)in 2 games
SF Justin Smith 1 sack
HOU Williams 0 Sacks(elite DE)
GB Kampman 1 sack in 2 games(elite DE)
CHI Ogunleye 1 sack and Brown .5 sacks
CAR Peppers 1 sack on Backus/ 1 on Mulitalo(elite DE)
TB Adams 1 sack(Elite DE)
NO 0 sacks on backus
TEN 0 sacks on backus
WAS 0 sacks on backus
JAX 0 sacks on backus

That adds up to 9.5 sacks...............9.5 ........9.5 not 21 or 19.5 0r 23 like you will find on some sites.

Its amazing how much yoyu an learn by WATCHING...EVERY GAME!!

I may go through and find out where every single one of our sacks came from when i get time. It takes a long time but i was so sick of hearing how backus and Raiola suck


January 15th, 2009, 5:27 pm
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FootballWiz wrote:
OK OK CHECK THIS OUT

I went through week by week and this is how GOOD Backus played. This isnt from some website.This is from me going back through all 16 games and WATCHING.No better way to see then having all 16 games

BACKUS SACKS ALLOWED AND BY WHO
ATL Abraham had 2 sacks on backus(Backus worst game of the year)
IND Freeney 0 Sacks(elite DE)
MIN Allen had 3 sacks..Only 2 on Backus(elite DE)in 2 games
SF Justin Smith 1 sack
HOU Williams 0 Sacks(elite DE)
GB Kampman 1 sack in 2 games(elite DE)
CHI Ogunleye 1 sack and Brown .5 sacks
CAR Peppers 1 sack on Backus/ 1 on Mulitalo(elite DE)
TB Adams 1 sack(Elite DE)
NO 0 sacks on backus
TEN 0 sacks on backus
WAS 0 sacks on backus
JAX 0 sacks on backus

That adds up to 9.5 sacks...............9.5 ........9.5 not 21 or 19.5 0r 23 like you will find on some sites.

Its amazing how much yoyu an learn by WATCHING...EVERY GAME!!

I may go through and find out where every single one of our sacks came from when i get time. It takes a long time but i was so sick of hearing how backus and Raiola suck


Just where does that 'only' 9.5 sacks rank among LTs in the NFL,Jeff?


January 15th, 2009, 5:32 pm
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I certainly don't know the answer to that question, lol... and here is another one for Jeff...

How many sacks should the highest paid LT allow?


January 15th, 2009, 5:35 pm
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dh86, don't make him see that is near the top! Please! Oh man... he is going to be bummed he did all that work to find out Backus ranks among the worst again this year (not mentioning he had 15 last year and that was worst in the NFL)

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January 15th, 2009, 5:36 pm
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According to Walterfootball.com, here's the stats for sacks up until the last week of the season:

1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack
2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER
3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11)
3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks
3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks* (He missed first quarter of Philadelphia game because of a shoulder injury)
7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks
8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games)
8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (Only appeared in 12 games)
8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER
8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15)
13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks PRO BOWLER
13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER
15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks
15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games)
15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts)
18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games)
20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks
21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game)
21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks
23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER
24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13)
27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks
28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks
29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks
30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks
T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks
T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games)

So, Backus is 3rd worst in the league. What a stud indeed :roll:

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Last edited by Touchdown Jesus on January 16th, 2009, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



January 15th, 2009, 5:41 pm
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Side note... why did Flozel Adams get in the Probowl with 7.5 sacks allowed?

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January 15th, 2009, 5:52 pm
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steensn wrote:
Side note... why did Flozel Adams get in the Probowl with 7.5 sacks allowed?

Why is Peters in the pro bowl with the most sacks allowed in the league?!

Answer: The Pro Bowl is largely a popularity contest.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


January 15th, 2009, 5:56 pm
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I watch every game. I live in Dallas and have NFL Sunday Ticket. I've watched every single game since I started this website five years ago, most of them multiple times on my TiVO (which also allows me to focus on specific parts of the game like the OL on my second time watching them).

First off, 9.5 sacks isn't an impressive number at all. Although it is down from his awful 15.5 last year. By comparison, rookie Gosder Cherilus and George "false start" Foster combined to give up 8.5. Also, rookie Jack Long gave up just 2.5 sacks starting every game this season, basically on 25% of what Backus gave up.

Secondly, since when are sacks the ONLY measure of a left tackles effectiveness?

Seems like you are not counting the times when the RE blows by Backus and wraps up Kevin Smith in the backfield. Or the times when the RE knocks Backus on his backside and forces Orlovsky to throw the ball away. Or the time when the ref calls Backus for a false start (he had 5) or other penalties (5 more) adding up to a career high 72 yards. So his penalties (10) were the same as a rookie and false start machine (10) on the right side.

Backus is terrible and overpaid, I'm basing this on the last 80 regular season game I have watched at least once.

EDIT - just saw Touchdown Jesus's post of sacks allowed by a LT - great post and shows just what a spare LT Backus is. Do you have last years stats as well, cause his sack total was terrible in 2006.

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January 15th, 2009, 6:01 pm
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Pablo wrote:
I watch every game. I live in Dallas and have NFL Sunday Ticket. I've watched every single game since I started this website five years ago, most of them multiple times on my TiVO (which also allows me to focus on specific parts of the game like the OL on my second time watching them).

First off, 9.5 sacks isn't an impressive number at all. Although it is down from his awful 15.5 last year. By comparison, rookie Gosder Cherilus and George "false start" Foster combined to give up 8.5. Also, rookie Jack Long gave up just 2.5 sacks starting every game this season, basically on 25% of what Backus gave up.

Secondly, since when are sacks the ONLY measure of a left tackles effectiveness?

Seems like you are not counting the times when the RE blows by Backus and wraps up Kevin Smith in the backfield. Or the times when the RE knocks Backus on his backside and forces Orlovsky to throw the ball away. Or the time when the ref calls Backus for a false start (he had 5) or other penalties (5 more) adding up to a career high 72 yards. So his penalties (10) were the same as a rookie and false start machine (10) on the right side.

Backus is terrible and overpaid, I'm basing this on the last 80 regular season game I have watched at least once.

EDIT - just saw Touchdown Jesus's post of sacks allowed by a LT - great post and shows just what a spare LT Backus is. Do you have last years stats as well, cause his sack total was terrible in 2006.

Don't have any previous year stats handy. But in the Martz offense, all lineman will have more sacks given up, so that's got to be taken into account. A good comparison would be to look at Orlano Pace's numbers from when he and Martz were in St. Louis together.

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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


January 15th, 2009, 6:09 pm
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hahahaa.....and people thing we need a QB more than a LT....


January 15th, 2009, 10:05 pm
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