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Heisman Winner

Joined: December 8th, 2008, 3:16 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Bradford is a redshirt sophomore, thus, he cannot declare...


What? Redshirt sophmores can declare.


December 15th, 2008, 4:23 pm
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Any player 3 years removed from high school can declare.

Bradford is a redshirt sophomore this season which means he's three years removed and can declare. Same with Crabtree.


December 15th, 2008, 4:31 pm
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Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Quote:
Where do I say "take an LT because it's not a QB"? NEVER... I say take an LT because it's a position of needAND a position of value.

You don't JUST draft positions of need, you also HAVE draft positions of value. You can find talent at ANY position outside of Rd. 1. You don't draft Gains Adams #1 over all simply because he's the best DE in the draft, the same way you don't draft Jerod Mayo or Keith Rivers #1 over all because they're the best LB's or Cedric Ellis because he's the best DT. You evaluate ALL of the talent in the draft and grab a player of value and need at the spot you're picking at. There aren't ANY DE's, DT's. or LB's that have proven worthy of a top five pick this year.


I wasn't lumping you with the people who said "take a LT because it's not a QB". I said your argument was QUALITY. Re-read my post.

I want a debate on the basis of who the best player is for the number one pick. Not the best position. Doing that, as I've said a hundred times over, is just asking for a bust or an overpaid rookie.

Personally, if I was the new GM of the Lions I would do two things. First I would try to trade down with San Francisco.

Failing that, I would offer Oher, Smith, Bradford and Stafford contracts. Whoever was willing to take the lowest contract--I would sign and then draft. Simple as that.


December 16th, 2008, 2:22 pm
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Blueskies wrote:
Personally, if I was the new GM of the Lions I would do two things. First I would try to trade down with San Francisco.

Failing that, I would offer Oher, Smith, Bradford and Stafford contracts. Whoever was willing to take the lowest contract--I would sign and then draft. Simple as that.


I agree that a tradedown would be great, if we can get it. Those top overall picks are more ridiculously expensive every year.

Auctioning the top pick to the lowest-bidding elite prospect who fills a position of immediate need is a good idea too. We have so many needs, a lot of guys could be offered a bid.

I wouldn't want to include Bradford and Stafford in that list though, because they're quarterbacks, which is not a position of immediate need for us in 2009, and even if it was, we don't have the situation (solid O-Line, good run game, good defense) that a young QB needs in order to be successful.

He'd have too much responsibility riding on his shoulders, constantly playing from behind because of our weak defense, constantly getting sacked, throwing on 3rd-and-long against a spread out defense that doesn't fear the run, and he would most likely bust. Or, if we brought him along slowly, he'd be a $multi-million$ benchwarmer, and that's a waste of money.


December 16th, 2008, 4:03 pm
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Quote:
The Jets took Ferguson 4th overall in 2006, and their team went from terrible to mediocre. But the year after they were back in the top 10 taking Gholston 6th overall. Only now--after the addition of a quality QB and a great guard have they become SB contenders.


I'm not really writing this to nitpick an individual post, but I got so SICK of listening to Tony Kornheiser lick Brett Favre's posterior side that I have to raise a few points here.


#1.....Kris Jenkins was in the MVP talks at 1 point this year.

Jenkins was the BIGGEST.....in more than 1 way......reason that the Jets run defense went from about 26th in the NFL to about #6. They also brought in Calvin Pace, who was 2nd in solo tackles and had 7 sacks.

In 2007, the Jets surrendered 28 or more points in 8 games.
In 2008, the gave up 28 points or more only 4 times.

The defense was MUCH improved.

#2.....The Jets signed 2 O-linemen in Faneca and Woody.

They helped Thomas Jones improve from 3.6 YPA to 4.5 YPA.

They also reduced the number of sacks from 53 in 2007 to 30 in 2008.

Their offensive line play was much improved.

#3.....The Jets played a FAR WEAKER schedule.

In 2007, the Jets had to play NFC East, the Patriots x2, and the AFC North (Steelers, Ravens, Browns @10-6).

They only played 4 games against teams with <7 wins in 2007!!!



In 2008, the Jets were fortunate enough to play the AFC West, the NFC West, and a Patriots team without Tom Brady.



#4.....Favre wasn't any better than Pennington was last year!

Pennington had roughly 1/2 of the attempts that Favre did.

Favre had 22 TDs, Chad had 10
Favre had 22 INTs, Chad had 9
Favre had 3472 yards, Chad had 1765
Favre had 66% comp, Chad had 69%
Favre had 6.7 yards/attempt, Chad had 6.8
Favre had about 10 yards/completion, Chad had about the same.
Favre had 6/16 games with a QB rating >90, while Chad had 4/9 games.

The Jets LOST games down the stretch due to poor play by Favre....apparently after he hurt his shoulder.


The difference between the Jets winning more games this year had far less to do with the QB position than it did with the defense and the O-line.


January 17th, 2009, 6:32 pm
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phunnypharm wrote:
Quote:
The Jets took Ferguson 4th overall in 2006, and their team went from terrible to mediocre. But the year after they were back in the top 10 taking Gholston 6th overall. Only now--after the addition of a quality QB and a great guard have they become SB contenders.


I'm not really writing this to nitpick an individual post, but I got so SICK of listening to Tony Kornheiser lick Brett Favre's posterior side that I have to raise a few points here.


#1.....Kris Jenkins was in the MVP talks at 1 point this year.

Jenkins was the BIGGEST.....in more than 1 way......reason that the Jets run defense went from about 26th in the NFL to about #6. They also brought in Calvin Pace, who was 2nd in solo tackles and had 7 sacks.

In 2007, the Jets surrendered 28 or more points in 8 games.
In 2008, the gave up 28 points or more only 4 times.

The defense was MUCH improved.

#2.....The Jets signed 2 O-linemen in Faneca and Woody.

They helped Thomas Jones improve from 3.6 YPA to 4.5 YPA.

They also reduced the number of sacks from 53 in 2007 to 30 in 2008.

Their offensive line play was much improved.

#3.....The Jets played a FAR WEAKER schedule.

In 2007, the Jets had to play NFC East, the Patriots x2, and the AFC North (Steelers, Ravens, Browns @10-6).

They only played 4 games against teams with <7 wins in 2007!!!



In 2008, the Jets were fortunate enough to play the AFC West, the NFC West, and a Patriots team without Tom Brady.



#4.....Favre wasn't any better than Pennington was last year!

Pennington had roughly 1/2 of the attempts that Favre did.

Favre had 22 TDs, Chad had 10
Favre had 22 INTs, Chad had 9
Favre had 3472 yards, Chad had 1765
Favre had 66% comp, Chad had 69%
Favre had 6.7 yards/attempt, Chad had 6.8
Favre had about 10 yards/completion, Chad had about the same.
Favre had 6/16 games with a QB rating >90, while Chad had 4/9 games.

The Jets LOST games down the stretch due to poor play by Favre....apparently after he hurt his shoulder.


The difference between the Jets winning more games this year had far less to do with the QB position than it did with the defense and the O-line.


Not to burst your bubble... but I think the jets success had a lot to do with having a QB that could produce for a whole season. I agree the rest was a HUGE upgrade, but I think they would have had a better season had Chad not gotten hurt... again.

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January 17th, 2009, 8:55 pm
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Quote:
Not to burst your bubble... but I think the jets success had a lot to do with having a QB that could produce for a whole season. I agree the rest was a HUGE upgrade, but I think they would have had a better season had Chad not gotten hurt... again.


I'm CONFUSED!

The Jets were 8-3 this year, and then the slid in a large part because Favre played terribly. Supposedly, that was about the time he injured his right shoulder.

In 2007, the Jets were 1-7 when they DECIDED to give Kellen Clemens a chance with the job.

I don't see how an injury or lack of injury had anything to do with the Jets winning more this year. Pennington wasn't hurt last year while they were 1-7 and the defense gave up 28+ points in 4 of 7 games to start the year.


And Favre didn't PRODUCE anything but garbage for the last 5 games......so how does them give them a whole season of "production" from the QB?


January 17th, 2009, 9:17 pm
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phunnypharm wrote:
Quote:
Not to burst your bubble... but I think the jets success had a lot to do with having a QB that could produce for a whole season. I agree the rest was a HUGE upgrade, but I think they would have had a better season had Chad not gotten hurt... again.


I'm CONFUSED!

The Jets were 8-3 this year, and then the slid in a large part because Favre played terribly. Supposedly, that was about the time he injured his right shoulder.

In 2007, the Jets were 1-7 when they DECIDED to give Kellen Clemens a chance with the job.

I don't see how an injury or lack of injury had anything to do with the Jets winning more this year. Pennington wasn't hurt last year while they were 1-7 and the defense gave up 28+ points in 4 of 7 games to start the year.


And Favre didn't PRODUCE anything but garbage for the last 5 games......so how does them give them a whole season of "production" from the QB?

Yeah people seem to believe Favre is still a great QB and conveniently ignore the fact that he's been nothing special for the past few years. Especially in big games, Favre has been horrible. Throwing lots of picks, making horrible decisions.... He's not a good QB anymore. He's just living off his reputation.

22 TDs and 22 Ints is not good. Compare him with Kitna last year. He threw 18 TDs and 20 Ints. Pretty similar stats. Would anyone say that Kitna was one of the best QBs in the league last year? How about in 2006: 21 TDs with 22 Ints. That's about identical and I definitely wouldn't say he was one of the best QBs that year.

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January 17th, 2009, 9:25 pm
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I'm not saying he did anything special, I'm just saying ti was consistent.

I thought Pennington had an injury last year?

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January 17th, 2009, 9:37 pm
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steensn wrote:
I'm not saying he did anything special, I'm just saying ti was consistent.

I thought Pennington had an injury last year?

steensn, it wasn't consistent at all. Favre started the reason really well, but he fell apart as the year went on. That's one of the main reasons why the Jets couldn't win at the end of the season. He's the definition of inconsistent. Through the first 8 weeks of the season, he had 15 TDs and 12 Ints. In the 2nd half of the year he had 7 TDs and 11 Ints. Quite a drop in production as the year went on. In particular, in the last 5 weeks of the season he had 2 TDs and 9 Ints. Even worse, in the last 3 games (when the Jets REALLY needed to win to secure a playoff birth), he had 2 TDs and 7 Ints. 7 picks in the last 3 games!! That is horrible.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


January 17th, 2009, 9:48 pm
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Touchdown Jesus wrote:
steensn wrote:
I'm not saying he did anything special, I'm just saying ti was consistent.

I thought Pennington had an injury last year?

steensn, it wasn't consistent at all. Favre started the reason really well, but he fell apart as the year went on. That's one of the main reasons why the Jets couldn't win at the end of the season. He's the definition of inconsistent. Through the first 8 weeks of the season, he had 15 TDs and 12 Ints. In the 2nd half of the year he had 7 TDs and 11 Ints. Quite a drop in production as the year went on. In particular, in the last 5 weeks of the season he had 2 TDs and 9 Ints. Even worse, in the last 3 games (when the Jets REALLY needed to win to secure a playoff birth), he had 2 TDs and 7 Ints. 7 picks in the last 3 games!! That is horrible.


Didn't follow him that deep, didn't know he played so bad!

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January 18th, 2009, 11:30 am
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Joined: November 2nd, 2008, 1:29 am
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Quote:
22 TDs and 22 Ints is not good. Compare him with Kitna last year. He threw 18 TDs and 20 Ints. Pretty similar stats. Would anyone say that Kitna was one of the best QBs in the league last year?


It is funny how some folks can view the same stats from 2 different QBs and think that one is great and one is a backup. Those stats from the entire year for Favre are extremely similar to the numbers we got out of both Kitna and Orlovsky in 2008. 5 TDs and 5 INTs from Kitna and 8 TDs against 8 INTs for Orlovsky. Neither of these were considered starter caliber.

Despite these stats, many people would take Favre over either Kitna or Culpepper and expect more. The numbers prove otherwise. We get the same here in Detroit, with many people expecting to go into 2009 with Culpepper as your starter. Culpepper had 4 TDs and 6 INTs along with the lowest rating among our starting QBs.

While Marinelli would say that Culpepper is amazing and has all the intangibles, I trust Schwartz will analyze the statistics and realize what we are actually getting out of Culpepper- very little.

-ILMP


January 18th, 2009, 2:18 pm
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