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 Tradable's? 
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5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pm
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Location: Wolverine, Mi.
Post Tradable's?
I was searching the Lion's current roster to see if there were any players that had possible trade value to attain more draft picks. Slim pickens! All I could come up with were, Raiola- maybe a 6th or 7th, Gaines- 5th or later, Dizon- 5th or later, IA-Francis- 5th or later. These were probably just wishful thinking on my part and I don't know that any of there values would even be that high.


December 14th, 2008, 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Tradable's?
liontrax wrote:
I was searching the Lion's current roster to see if there were any players that had possible trade value to attain more draft picks. Slim pickens! All I could come up with were, Raiola- maybe a 6th or 7th, Gaines- 5th or later, Dizon- 5th or later, IA-Francis- 5th or later. These were probably just wishful thinking on my part and I don't know that any of there values would even be that high.


I could see getting a little more trade value out of Raiola than you're thinking... Allegedly he's regarded around the league as a good C. If we could trade him BEFORE making picking Alex Mack I think we could get as high as a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him... If we do pick Alex Mack, however, Raiola might get lumped into that "you're going to cut him anyhow, so I'm not giving you anything for him" category.

I don't think we could get anything for Gaines or Dizon, and honestly, at this point I don't want to trade IAF. We definitely reached for IAF, he should have been picked in the 3rd to 5th round, and probably closer to the 5th. He was NOT a 2nd round pick. That said, he is physically gifted and at this point I would rather have him than a 5th or 6th round draft pick. I personally wouldn't let IAF go for anything less than a 3rd rounder, and I doubt we'd get anything close to that for him.


December 14th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: December 27th, 2006, 4:53 pm
Posts: 693
Post Re: Tradable's?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
I was searching the Lion's current roster to see if there were any players that had possible trade value to attain more draft picks. Slim pickens! All I could come up with were, Raiola- maybe a 6th or 7th, Gaines- 5th or later, Dizon- 5th or later, IA-Francis- 5th or later. These were probably just wishful thinking on my part and I don't know that any of there values would even be that high.


I could see getting a little more trade value out of Raiola than you're thinking... Allegedly he's regarded around the league as a good C. If we could trade him BEFORE making picking Alex Mack I think we could get as high as a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him... If we do pick Alex Mack, however, Raiola might get lumped into that "you're going to cut him anyhow, so I'm not giving you anything for him" category.

I don't think we could get anything for Gaines or Dizon, and honestly, at this point I don't want to trade IAF. We definitely reached for IAF, he should have been picked in the 3rd to 5th round, and probably closer to the 5th. He was NOT a 2nd round pick. That said, he is physically gifted and at this point I would rather have him than a 5th or 6th round draft pick. I personally wouldn't let IAF go for anything less than a 3rd rounder, and I doubt we'd get anything close to that for him.


There is no team in the NFL that would give up a 2nd or 3rd for a 30 year old Center. Especially a bad one. We can get high round picks for Calvin and Ernie. Mid round picks for Redding,White,Bullocks and Bodden.


December 14th, 2008, 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Tradable's?
dh86 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
I was searching the Lion's current roster to see if there were any players that had possible trade value to attain more draft picks. Slim pickens! All I could come up with were, Raiola- maybe a 6th or 7th, Gaines- 5th or later, Dizon- 5th or later, IA-Francis- 5th or later. These were probably just wishful thinking on my part and I don't know that any of there values would even be that high.


I could see getting a little more trade value out of Raiola than you're thinking... Allegedly he's regarded around the league as a good C. If we could trade him BEFORE making picking Alex Mack I think we could get as high as a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him... If we do pick Alex Mack, however, Raiola might get lumped into that "you're going to cut him anyhow, so I'm not giving you anything for him" category.

I don't think we could get anything for Gaines or Dizon, and honestly, at this point I don't want to trade IAF. We definitely reached for IAF, he should have been picked in the 3rd to 5th round, and probably closer to the 5th. He was NOT a 2nd round pick. That said, he is physically gifted and at this point I would rather have him than a 5th or 6th round draft pick. I personally wouldn't let IAF go for anything less than a 3rd rounder, and I doubt we'd get anything close to that for him.


There is no team in the NFL that would give up a 2nd or 3rd for a 30 year old Center. Especially a bad one. We can get high round picks for Calvin and Ernie. Mid round picks for Redding,White,Bullocks and Bodden.


Perhaps you didn't read my post... Like I said... Around the league he's regarded as being good. I think he sucks, you can say he sucks, but allegedly people throughout the league think that he is a good C on a bad OL. Martz was very critical of our OL, but he was high on Raiola. Martz said that this team, this offense, and this line is two OT's away from being great (that, however, was when we had Damion Woody)... Martz liked our interior OL. People on here say Raiola is the reason that we can't move the ball on 4th and short, and I agree... I made a post to that effect on here on the "Raiola salutes the fans" topic. That said, people around the league make the claim that that's primarily the responsibility of the OGs and the C is just there to help. They say that the C is primarily there for 'help' and his main job is to read the D, which, allegedly Dom does well.

You can fool yourself all you want, but I don't think anyone is giving up an early pick for Sims. He's garbage. I also think you're fooling youself when you say that we could get mid-round picks for Redding and Bullocks. No one is going to want to take on Reddings contract. Bullocks is pure garbage.

I would agree that White and Bodden have some value, but I wouldn't want to get rid of Bodden at all, and I would only want to get rid of White if we're switching to a 3-4.


December 14th, 2008, 5:05 pm
Varsity Captain

Joined: March 7th, 2007, 2:59 pm
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Post 
Kitna, especially if Brady isnt able to go in NE. May even be able to snag a 3 for him.


January 2nd, 2009, 3:56 am
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Heisman Winner

Joined: December 8th, 2008, 3:16 pm
Posts: 785
Post 
casskid wrote:
Kitna, especially if Brady isnt able to go in NE. May even be able to snag a 3 for him.


A team would have to be smoking some good crap to get a 3rd rounder for KINTa. Maybe a 6th, but late round picks are really valuable if you use them right.


January 2nd, 2009, 4:25 am
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Joined: November 11th, 2008, 12:28 pm
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I don't think we could get anything for Raiola.

Center is a position where you can often get the second-, third-, or fourth-best prospect in rounds 4-6, and that's a young guy with his whole career ahead of him, someone you hope to get 10+ years from.

If you're another team in the NFL who needs a Center, how much would you trade for a 30-year old vet with 8 years of wear & tear on his body, who's missed a few games with injury recently, and was a leader on the underperforming O-Line of an 0-16 team? Especially when you can get a young decent Center in the draft with a later-round pick. Dom might be worth the effort to pull off the waiver wire if the Lions cut him, but not more than that.

Same with Backus.

He's a 30-year old LT on an offense that has allowed the most sacks in the league over the past three years. If you want a LT, you draft a young guy who you think can pass-block. You don't give that up for an old guy who you know can't pass-block.

Same with Kitna.

How much would you honestly trade to get a 36-year old QB who's been sacked a million times the past two+ years before throwing some critical 4th-quarter interceptions in 2008 and then being put on the Injured Reserve either because 1. he's injured (red flag) or 2. he's not good enough to lead the worst team in the NFL (redder flag).

Our Defense probably doesn't have anybody we could get any real value for, even Sims. I hate to be so pessimistic, but teams will not be lining up with draft picks in hand to raid the roster of the worst NFL team in history, I promise.

We traded for Bodden because he played well in Cleveland. Nobody will trade for Bodden because of how well he played in Detroit--they aren't going to make excuses for him like we did ("he's in the wrong scheme"), even if they are valid. They're just going to look at our opponent QB rating of 110.9 (worst in the NFL by far) and not trade for anybody in our secondary.

If I'm another team looking at Ernie Sims, here's what I'd probably think:

He's not good enough to make the team around him better than the worst defense in the entire NFL, which means either
1. Sims is not that talented in spite of where Millen drafted him (which is a throw-away piece of data anyway unless you respect Matt Millen's draft expertise),
or 2. He really is talented, but he's obviously undersized (red flag), and he's been hit by so many blockers who take him out of the play that his body will start to break down. He can't handle hits like a 240-pound LB could, and he's had some shoulder problems (red flag).

NFL players tend to have a short career-span. A draft choice represents a player with his entire NFL career ahead of him who you think can play well at the NFL level. You don't trade someone you think can play in the NFL for someone who already has underperformed in the NFL and has taken a lot of hits in the process.

CJ is probably the only player on our roster with trade value. I wouldn't trade him for less than three first-round picks. Or two first-round picks, a second, and a high third.

But no team is going to offer that much. Why? He didn't make the ProBowl, he's had some dropped passes, he's had a back injury and a minor knee injury, he's had several games with only 2 receptions, and he hasn't elevated his play enough to get us just one win. His measurables are out-of-this-world, but his actual performance grades more like an A-, and he already has two years of NFL wear & tear on him.

When you trade a massive bucket full of picks for someone who's NFL performance has been slightly less than his potential, you'll have to deal with the judgement from the fans and the media for years. I really don't see any teams offering us what CJ is really worth to Detroit--he's almost the only bright spot on our entire team.

CJ is a lot more valuable to the Lions than other teams are going to offer.


January 7th, 2009, 1:24 pm
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Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: December 27th, 2006, 4:53 pm
Posts: 693
Post 
v1ly4 wrote:
I don't think we could get anything for Raiola.

Center is a position where you can often get the second-, third-, or fourth-best prospect in rounds 4-6, and that's a young guy with his whole career ahead of him, someone you hope to get 10+ years from.

If you're another team in the NFL who needs a Center, how much would you trade for a 30-year old vet with 8 years of wear & tear on his body, who's missed a few games with injury recently, and was a leader on the underperforming O-Line of an 0-16 team? Especially when you can get a young decent Center in the draft with a later-round pick. Dom might be worth the effort to pull off the waiver wire if the Lions cut him, but not more than that.

Same with Backus.

He's a 30-year old LT on an offense that has allowed the most sacks in the league over the past three years. If you want a LT, you draft a young guy who you think can pass-block. You don't give that up for an old guy who you know can't pass-block.

Same with Kitna.

How much would you honestly trade to get a 36-year old QB who's been sacked a million times the past two+ years before throwing some critical 4th-quarter interceptions in 2008 and then being put on the Injured Reserve either because 1. he's injured (red flag) or 2. he's not good enough to lead the worst team in the NFL (redder flag).

Our Defense probably doesn't have anybody we could get any real value for, even Sims. I hate to be so pessimistic, but teams will not be lining up with draft picks in hand to raid the roster of the worst NFL team in history, I promise.

We traded for Bodden because he played well in Cleveland. Nobody will trade for Bodden because of how well he played in Detroit--they aren't going to make excuses for him like we did ("he's in the wrong scheme"), even if they are valid. They're just going to look at our opponent QB rating of 110.9 (worst in the NFL by far) and not trade for anybody in our secondary.

If I'm another team looking at Ernie Sims, here's what I'd probably think:

He's not good enough to make the team around him better than the worst defense in the entire NFL, which means either
1. Sims is not that talented in spite of where Millen drafted him (which is a throw-away piece of data anyway unless you respect Matt Millen's draft expertise),
or 2. He really is talented, but he's obviously undersized (red flag), and he's been hit by so many blockers who take him out of the play that his body will start to break down. He can't handle hits like a 240-pound LB could, and he's had some shoulder problems (red flag).

NFL players tend to have a short career-span. A draft choice represents a player with his entire NFL career ahead of him who you think can play well at the NFL level. You don't trade someone you think can play in the NFL for someone who already has underperformed in the NFL and has taken a lot of hits in the process.

CJ is probably the only player on our roster with trade value. I wouldn't trade him for less than three first-round picks. Or two first-round picks, a second, and a high third.

But no team is going to offer that much. Why? He didn't make the ProBowl, he's had some dropped passes, he's had a back injury and a minor knee injury, he's had several games with only 2 receptions, and he hasn't elevated his play enough to get us just one win. His measurables are out-of-this-world, but his actual performance grades more like an A-, and he already has two years of NFL wear & tear on him.

When you trade a massive bucket full of picks for someone who's NFL performance has been slightly less than his potential, you'll have to deal with the judgement from the fans and the media for years. I really don't see any teams offering us what CJ is really worth to Detroit--he's almost the only bright spot on our entire team.

CJ is a lot more valuable to the Lions than other teams are going to offer.


You are dead on with the entire post. The guy talking about getting a good draft pick for possibly the worst Center in the NFL wasnt even worth responding to though.


January 7th, 2009, 6:36 pm
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Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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dh86 wrote:
v1ly4 wrote:
I don't think we could get anything for Raiola.

Center is a position where you can often get the second-, third-, or fourth-best prospect in rounds 4-6, and that's a young guy with his whole career ahead of him, someone you hope to get 10+ years from.

If you're another team in the NFL who needs a Center, how much would you trade for a 30-year old vet with 8 years of wear & tear on his body, who's missed a few games with injury recently, and was a leader on the underperforming O-Line of an 0-16 team? Especially when you can get a young decent Center in the draft with a later-round pick. Dom might be worth the effort to pull off the waiver wire if the Lions cut him, but not more than that.

Same with Backus.

He's a 30-year old LT on an offense that has allowed the most sacks in the league over the past three years. If you want a LT, you draft a young guy who you think can pass-block. You don't give that up for an old guy who you know can't pass-block.

Same with Kitna.

How much would you honestly trade to get a 36-year old QB who's been sacked a million times the past two+ years before throwing some critical 4th-quarter interceptions in 2008 and then being put on the Injured Reserve either because 1. he's injured (red flag) or 2. he's not good enough to lead the worst team in the NFL (redder flag).

Our Defense probably doesn't have anybody we could get any real value for, even Sims. I hate to be so pessimistic, but teams will not be lining up with draft picks in hand to raid the roster of the worst NFL team in history, I promise.

We traded for Bodden because he played well in Cleveland. Nobody will trade for Bodden because of how well he played in Detroit--they aren't going to make excuses for him like we did ("he's in the wrong scheme"), even if they are valid. They're just going to look at our opponent QB rating of 110.9 (worst in the NFL by far) and not trade for anybody in our secondary.

If I'm another team looking at Ernie Sims, here's what I'd probably think:

He's not good enough to make the team around him better than the worst defense in the entire NFL, which means either
1. Sims is not that talented in spite of where Millen drafted him (which is a throw-away piece of data anyway unless you respect Matt Millen's draft expertise),
or 2. He really is talented, but he's obviously undersized (red flag), and he's been hit by so many blockers who take him out of the play that his body will start to break down. He can't handle hits like a 240-pound LB could, and he's had some shoulder problems (red flag).

NFL players tend to have a short career-span. A draft choice represents a player with his entire NFL career ahead of him who you think can play well at the NFL level. You don't trade someone you think can play in the NFL for someone who already has underperformed in the NFL and has taken a lot of hits in the process.

CJ is probably the only player on our roster with trade value. I wouldn't trade him for less than three first-round picks. Or two first-round picks, a second, and a high third.

But no team is going to offer that much. Why? He didn't make the ProBowl, he's had some dropped passes, he's had a back injury and a minor knee injury, he's had several games with only 2 receptions, and he hasn't elevated his play enough to get us just one win. His measurables are out-of-this-world, but his actual performance grades more like an A-, and he already has two years of NFL wear & tear on him.

When you trade a massive bucket full of picks for someone who's NFL performance has been slightly less than his potential, you'll have to deal with the judgement from the fans and the media for years. I really don't see any teams offering us what CJ is really worth to Detroit--he's almost the only bright spot on our entire team.

CJ is a lot more valuable to the Lions than other teams are going to offer.


You are dead on with the entire post. The guy talking about getting a good draft pick for possibly the worst Center in the NFL wasnt even worth responding to though.


I disagree.

First you're underrating Dominic Raiola. Yes, he's undersized, but he's a pro bowl alternate and he's widely considered a master at reading defenses and calling blocking schemes. In the right system, he could flourish. And don't discount the value of experienced offensive linemen. OLmen, barring injury, can have careers that last 10-15 years. Dom still has probably 3-4 more quality seasons in him. I'm not really sure what his value is, but I'm guessing around a 4-6th round pick--not absolutely nothing.

Jeff Backus--for his value I look at the Roman Oben trade. Roman Oben, despite never being a top LT, was traded to the Chargers in 2004 for a 5th round pick. He was an 8 year veteran at the time. So I would say Backus is roughly worth a 5th rounder. Backus does not have a lot of talent, but he's rarely injured, has high character, and has been in the league for a while.

Sims--look at the Vilma trade. Vilma has demonstrated more on the field than Sims, but he has a career threatening disease that could take him out of the game at any time. I'd put their value at about the same. Vilma was traded for a 4th rounder+a conditional draft pick based on performance. I could see a similar deal for Sims.

You're probably spot on with CJ. There are only two teams I could see as suitors--the G-men and the Titans.


January 9th, 2009, 2:35 pm
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Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: December 27th, 2006, 4:53 pm
Posts: 693
Post 
Blueskies wrote:
dh86 wrote:
v1ly4 wrote:
I don't think we could get anything for Raiola.

Center is a position where you can often get the second-, third-, or fourth-best prospect in rounds 4-6, and that's a young guy with his whole career ahead of him, someone you hope to get 10+ years from.

If you're another team in the NFL who needs a Center, how much would you trade for a 30-year old vet with 8 years of wear & tear on his body, who's missed a few games with injury recently, and was a leader on the underperforming O-Line of an 0-16 team? Especially when you can get a young decent Center in the draft with a later-round pick. Dom might be worth the effort to pull off the waiver wire if the Lions cut him, but not more than that.

Same with Backus.

He's a 30-year old LT on an offense that has allowed the most sacks in the league over the past three years. If you want a LT, you draft a young guy who you think can pass-block. You don't give that up for an old guy who you know can't pass-block.

Same with Kitna.

How much would you honestly trade to get a 36-year old QB who's been sacked a million times the past two+ years before throwing some critical 4th-quarter interceptions in 2008 and then being put on the Injured Reserve either because 1. he's injured (red flag) or 2. he's not good enough to lead the worst team in the NFL (redder flag).

Our Defense probably doesn't have anybody we could get any real value for, even Sims. I hate to be so pessimistic, but teams will not be lining up with draft picks in hand to raid the roster of the worst NFL team in history, I promise.

We traded for Bodden because he played well in Cleveland. Nobody will trade for Bodden because of how well he played in Detroit--they aren't going to make excuses for him like we did ("he's in the wrong scheme"), even if they are valid. They're just going to look at our opponent QB rating of 110.9 (worst in the NFL by far) and not trade for anybody in our secondary.

If I'm another team looking at Ernie Sims, here's what I'd probably think:

He's not good enough to make the team around him better than the worst defense in the entire NFL, which means either
1. Sims is not that talented in spite of where Millen drafted him (which is a throw-away piece of data anyway unless you respect Matt Millen's draft expertise),
or 2. He really is talented, but he's obviously undersized (red flag), and he's been hit by so many blockers who take him out of the play that his body will start to break down. He can't handle hits like a 240-pound LB could, and he's had some shoulder problems (red flag).

NFL players tend to have a short career-span. A draft choice represents a player with his entire NFL career ahead of him who you think can play well at the NFL level. You don't trade someone you think can play in the NFL for someone who already has underperformed in the NFL and has taken a lot of hits in the process.

CJ is probably the only player on our roster with trade value. I wouldn't trade him for less than three first-round picks. Or two first-round picks, a second, and a high third.

But no team is going to offer that much. Why? He didn't make the ProBowl, he's had some dropped passes, he's had a back injury and a minor knee injury, he's had several games with only 2 receptions, and he hasn't elevated his play enough to get us just one win. His measurables are out-of-this-world, but his actual performance grades more like an A-, and he already has two years of NFL wear & tear on him.

When you trade a massive bucket full of picks for someone who's NFL performance has been slightly less than his potential, you'll have to deal with the judgement from the fans and the media for years. I really don't see any teams offering us what CJ is really worth to Detroit--he's almost the only bright spot on our entire team.

CJ is a lot more valuable to the Lions than other teams are going to offer.


You are dead on with the entire post. The guy talking about getting a good draft pick for possibly the worst Center in the NFL wasnt even worth responding to though.


I disagree.

First you're underrating Dominic Raiola. Yes, he's undersized, but he's a pro bowl alternate and he's widely considered a master at reading defenses and calling blocking schemes. In the right system, he could flourish. And don't discount the value of experienced offensive linemen. OLmen, barring injury, can have careers that last 10-15 years. Dom still has probably 3-4 more quality seasons in him. I'm not really sure what his value is, but I'm guessing around a 4-6th round pick--not absolutely nothing.

Jeff Backus--for his value I look at the Roman Oben trade. Roman Oben, despite never being a top LT, was traded to the Chargers in 2004 for a 5th round pick. He was an 8 year veteran at the time. So I would say Backus is roughly worth a 5th rounder. Backus does not have a lot of talent, but he's rarely injured, has high character, and has been in the league for a while.

Sims--look at the Vilma trade. Vilma has demonstrated more on the field than Sims, but he has a career threatening disease that could take him out of the game at any time. I'd put their value at about the same. Vilma was traded for a 4th rounder+a conditional draft pick based on performance. I could see a similar deal for Sims.

You're probably spot on with CJ. There are only two teams I could see as suitors--the G-men and the Titans.


Roman Oben was the starting LT for the 02 champion Bucs. Roman was brought in as a vet who has won to tutor the Chargers young linemen. Jeff Backus cant exactly fill that role for a team. Raiola was a pro bowl alternate once, last year. The same year Jon Kitna was one.


January 9th, 2009, 3:07 pm
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