View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 20th, 2014, 7:00 pm



Reply to topic  [ 310 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next
 Aaron Curry= BEAST 
Author Message
5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pm
Posts: 1052
Location: Wolverine, Mi.
Post 
faulkn22 wrote:
The thing is, if we are serious about picking him at number 1, he cannot be a 2 down player. That means, he also needs to have a spot on the field in nickel packages at minimum, and maybe the dime as well. So, then the question is, where does he go in those packages? He's obviously fast enough to play in multiple positions, but that doesn't answer the question at heart.

I'd love to see Curry in a Lions uniform, but not purely as a 2 down Mike. That wouldn't make sense for us. So, with Sims and Peterson staying on the field in nickle, Curry would have to either...

A) Line up nine technique and speed rush as a fast end (DE)
B) Play nickel corner and man up the slot receiver (Ni CB)
C) Play some type of safety over the top (FS)

Maybe I'm missing something, but in a nickel, Curry doesn't get to play to his strengths, and sitting him for over a 1/3 of a game doesn't serve us well either.

I'm a big fan of Curry, and I'm in no way, shape, or form, locked on a pick... But if we can't figure out how to use Curry in most/all of our schemes, he cannot go #1.

So, am I missing something fellas? If you were the DC, how would you use Curry in Nickel or Dime packages?


So are you saying Peterson plays coverage in nickel? If so, wouldn't it be better to have Curry in coverage and Peterson rushing?


April 11th, 2009, 11:22 am
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: December 16th, 2008, 8:44 am
Posts: 843
Post 
The Mike always comes off the field in nickel and dime packages.

Nickel package takes the MLB out (where Curry will be on down 1 and two). Now you have 4 down linemen, 2 LB, and 5 DB's.

SSLB's stay on the field until the dime and your WLB becomes the sole LB with 4 down linemen and 6 DB's. This is because there is likely no TE (being replaced with receiver(s) for the SSLB to cover and no RB for the MLB to cover).

What I'm getting at, is if we pick Curry at number 1, we want him on the field at all times. Good coordinators find a way to get their best players involved (and he would certainly be our best player on D). Conventionally, he would be off the field in all passing situations. So I asked the question, if you were a coordinator, how do you plug him into the nickel and dime packages.

Peterson being in the game will most likely be dictated by the number of TE's the offense is using. As long as there is at least 1 TE in the game, he could still sell the pass rush(qb has to think he's covering until he breaks off his man). Just standing him up to rush on any given down isn't going to confuse an NFL offense.

This is what I'm getting at with utilizing your personnel.


April 11th, 2009, 12:28 pm
Profile
5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pm
Posts: 1052
Location: Wolverine, Mi.
Post 
faulkn22 wrote:
The Mike always comes off the field in nickel and dime packages.

Nickel package takes the MLB out (where Curry will be on down 1 and two). Now you have 4 down linemen, 2 LB, and 5 DB's.

SSLB's stay on the field until the dime and your WLB becomes the sole LB with 4 down linemen and 6 DB's. This is because there is likely no TE (being replaced with receiver(s) for the SSLB to cover and no RB for the MLB to cover).

What I'm getting at, is if we pick Curry at number 1, we want him on the field at all times. Good coordinators find a way to get their best players involved (and he would certainly be our best player on D). Conventionally, he would be off the field in all passing situations. So I asked the question, if you were a coordinator, how do you plug him into the nickel and dime packages.

Peterson being in the game will most likely be dictated by the number of TE's the offense is using. As long as there is at least 1 TE in the game, he could still sell the pass rush(qb has to think he's covering until he breaks off his man). Just standing him up to rush on any given down isn't going to confuse an NFL offense.

This is what I'm getting at with utilizing your personnel.


Thanks for the insight.


April 11th, 2009, 12:48 pm
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: December 16th, 2008, 8:44 am
Posts: 843
Post 
No problem, man; I just want to make sure that people realize that we have to have him on the field every down if he's a number 1 pick. Just wanted to see any ideas that people might have as to how we could use him full time.


April 11th, 2009, 1:32 pm
Profile
Walk On

Joined: November 2nd, 2008, 1:29 am
Posts: 427
Post 
What if... Curry were to play Mike on 1 and 2 and slide over to Sam for nickel packages. There would be no drop off, because that is what he is accustomed to anyway. I am not suggesting he displace Peterson, but rather move Peterson to DE for nickel. This would utilize one of his greatest strengths (pass rushing). That would mean Peterson and Avril are rushing during obvious passing situations, along with your better rushing DTs.

The only question I have is whether Peterson would be effective as a dedicated DE, given his lack of ideal size (240 lbs). He'd have to rely solely on speed.

-ILMP


April 11th, 2009, 1:42 pm
Profile
#1 Overall Pick

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 10:34 am
Posts: 1427
Post 
faulkn22 wrote:
The Mike always comes off the field in nickel and dime packages.
Nickel package takes the MLB out (where Curry will be on down 1 and two). Now you have 4 down linemen, 2 LB, and 5 DB's.

SSLB's stay on the field until the dime and your WLB becomes the sole LB with 4 down linemen and 6 DB's. This is because there is likely no TE (being replaced with receiver(s) for the SSLB to cover and no RB for the MLB to cover).

What I'm getting at, is if we pick Curry at number 1, we want him on the field at all times. Good coordinators find a way to get their best players involved (and he would certainly be our best player on D). Conventionally, he would be off the field in all passing situations. So I asked the question, if you were a coordinator, how do you plug him into the nickel and dime packages.

Peterson being in the game will most likely be dictated by the number of TE's the offense is using. As long as there is at least 1 TE in the game, he could still sell the pass rush(qb has to think he's covering until he breaks off his man). Just standing him up to rush on any given down isn't going to confuse an NFL offense.

This is what I'm getting at with utilizing your personnel.


That is not always true.

The Bears leave Urlacher in the game almost all the time. They take their SLB (Hillenmeyer) off the field first in nickel situations.

Ray Lewis is in for most nickel situations... and was almost ALWAYS in during his younger years... regardless of the personnel.


Also.....

Some teams have utilized a 3 DL and 3 LB look in their nickel package.... which allows the D-coordinator to disguise which LB.... or how many LBs..... may be blitzing.


The REASON that most teams take their Mike out 1st in nickel situations is because of that player's own physical limitations. IF we were to have 3 LBs capable of playing in nickel situations..... then the DC certainly can utilize them all.


April 11th, 2009, 5:07 pm
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: December 16th, 2008, 8:44 am
Posts: 843
Post 
You forgot to bold the word conventionally, too :p As in, usually thats how it works with normal players, unless you have a Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher. You're making my point that we need to work them into the scheme.


April 11th, 2009, 5:09 pm
Profile
NFL Veteran
User avatar

Joined: September 15th, 2004, 6:02 am
Posts: 1355
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Post 
Schwartz already addressed this last month.

Quote:
"You don't draft a linebacker early unless he's a three-down player," Schwartz said. "I mean, a player that can't be on the field on third down, that's not an early draft pick. Aaron has size. He has speed. He has athletic ability. He could fill a lot of different roles."


Quote:
He could be an outside linebacker in a 3-4 outside linebacker, he could be a (strong-side) linebacker in a 4-3, he could be a (middle linebacker) in a 4-3... He's played the (middle) in nickel (packages), so that's really not a 'projection' for him."


Don't make the mistake of pigeon-holing him into a single position. Some already mentioned different ways you could use him.

Watching the video, his reaction speed and closing of space makes him a guy who may be better at covering receivers than some of our DB's.

_________________
Image
Lion http://www.suh93.com


April 11th, 2009, 5:55 pm
Profile WWW
#1 Overall Pick

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 10:34 am
Posts: 1427
Post 
faulkn22 wrote:
You forgot to bold the word conventionally, too :p As in, usually thats how it works with normal players, unless you have a Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher. You're making my point that we need to work them into the scheme.


I didn't FORGET anything.

You typed the word "always" as well.

I said that isn't "always" true.


You posed this in a way that makes me read it and think it is a "challenge" to get all of those LBs on the field enough to justify a high pick. It may not have been exactly what you were thinking..... but your post reads as though it would be.

Considering that Aaron Curry has played SLB in college and his biggest strength may be his coverage ability.... why would anybody question whether he is a 3 down LB.... unless someone says that the MLB "always" goes off the field on 3rd down???

In my way of thinking.....

This isn't even a matter that needs to be worried about with Curry. The scouts wouldn't have him ranked that high if he was a 2 down LB. He played SLB and excelled in coverage.

On the other hand..... Sims only has about 3 INTs in his 6 years of NFL and college ball despite the fact that he plays WLB!!!

Maybe we are talking about the wrong LB coming off the field???


April 11th, 2009, 7:39 pm
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: December 16th, 2008, 8:44 am
Posts: 843
Post 
Quote:
Don't make the mistake of pigeon-holing him into a single position. Some already mentioned different ways you could use him.

Watching the video, his reaction speed and closing of space makes him a guy who may be better at covering receivers than some of our DB's.


Thats my point of asking where else we could we line him up. I don't want to pigeonhole a number 1 into one position, when it's clear that he could arguably play half the positions on defense. He clearly has the ability to be a 3 down player, and I'm just asking what you'd do with him. I don't think I ever asked if it was possible for him to be a three down player, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Phunny, maybe you didn't forget to do it, I can't say you did, you're right (and how would I know anyways). I should have put it better. You bold the first part of what I had to say without going through it all. You're taking a point I make about football defense 101 (what positions come in and out with what schemes) and twisting my words. Of course there are good DC's that go outside of the norm with their star players, which is the point I'm making. In a conventional defense, that is exactly how it is done, but when you get a stud at MLB, you work outside the box. When I say conventional, don't bring up two examples (the kind I'm trying to make in the first place) because I'm obviously talking about doing something outside the norm.

Now, about Sims. I have been an advocate for moving him ever since I heard the two words bigger and strong come out of our staffs mouths. But, until that day comes, he's being paid and we need to use him. What else are you going to use him for? Running downs?

The whole point I'm making is, how would you use Curry if we acquire him? Are you saying that he'd be the sole LB in our dime? If so, that's great, say so. Theres really no reason for the cap-fest or attitude when I'm trying to get people to see how useful he could be, and possibly advocating him as a #1 choice. So please, continue to enlighten us all with how you would use him, but hold the sass, please.


April 11th, 2009, 8:09 pm
Profile
Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels
User avatar

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 12:45 pm
Posts: 1834
Post 
I would assume that is we draft Curry he will stay at LB in nickle packages and Peterson will play Rush end like he did in seatle.


April 11th, 2009, 10:52 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pm
Posts: 13429
Post 
Stallion wrote:
I would assume that is we draft Curry he will stay at LB in nickle packages and Peterson will play Rush end like he did in seatle.


Stallion, correct me if I'm wrong, but in a 3-4 don't the middle linebackers rarely blitz? I was under the impression that the outside 2 linebackers were mainly responsible for that freeing up Curry to do what he does best .

_________________
regularjoe12 - "You are crackin me up! really! HILARIOUS um let me quote some intellgent people in this coneversation: Steensn:"


April 12th, 2009, 11:38 am
Profile
#1 Overall Pick

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 10:34 am
Posts: 1427
Post 
Quote:
Theres really no reason for the cap-fest or attitude when I'm trying to get people to see how useful he could be, and possibly advocating him as a #1 choice. So please, continue to enlighten us all with how you would use him, but hold the sass, please.


Maybe my post doesn't convey my message as clearly either.

I didn't intend to have any attitude or sass..... but I just don't want some people to be confused on this topic... and ALWAYS is a word that can cause that confusion. I'm not making this personal.... and not taking a shot at you. I know that the typed word can take on a different meaning than the spoken word.... so I understand now that you weren't doubting Curry's ability.

Some other people have mentioned that we can't take Curry at #1 because there is now way that we can keep him on the field for 3 downs. Or.... if he is on the field... that means that Sims or Peterson are on the bench in the nickel defense.

I see no REASON that the Lions can't use 3 LBs in a nickel defense for obvious passing situations if they have the talent at LB to make plays!!!

If we had Curry, Peterson, and Sims on the field in a nickel situation on 3rd and 9....... I like the fact that the QB wouldn't know which of those 3 guys is blitzing. They could send any of them.... and ALL of them on any given play.



Quote:
You bold the first part of what I had to say without going through it all. You're taking a point I make about football defense 101 (what positions come in and out with what schemes) and twisting my words. Of course there are good DC's that go outside of the norm with their star players, which is the point I'm making. In a conventional defense, that is exactly how it is done, but when you get a stud at MLB, you work outside the box. When I say conventional, don't bring up two examples (the kind I'm trying to make in the first place) because I'm obviously talking about doing something outside the norm.


I agree with your points about the "conventional" defense that we are used to seeing for the last 15 years in Detroit.

I'd also like to mention that with all of the new rules that favor a high scoring passing-oriented offense...... I think we will continue to see the changing of defensive schemes and alignments.

The FB is becoming an endangered species on many teams.... and is certainly a situational player anymore.

The days of the "classic thumper" at MLB in a 4-3 defense seem to be numbered... as more teams are featuring the spread offense look even on 1st and 2nd downs to create matchup problems.

Some teams are now featuring a nickel look that utilizes 3 safeties and 2 CBs......... instead of the "conventional" nickel alignment of 3 CBs and 2 safeties. Against "11 personnel"... (1 RB, 1 TE, and 3 WRs) it allows those teams support the run better but also cover the slot WR with a safety instead of a LB.


April 12th, 2009, 1:24 pm
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: December 16th, 2008, 8:44 am
Posts: 843
Post 
It's all good, man. It's a bi-product of using forums (you can't sense someone's post as good as you can a conversation)

I'm all about utilizing all three LB's, but then it isn't really a nickel :p So how do you line these guys up? Just like a nickel but putting one LB where the NC goes? I could see how that would stop the run much better while still covering that slot WR. That's definitely something outside the box that you could do with someone that has Curry' abilities.

Also, like you said, the thought of being able to blitz any backer on any down would be a great thing. That makes me smile just thinking about it.

I also agree with the rule changes you're talking about. Now, the the QB getting even more protection, I can only imagine that the scores per game increase some more this year (which indicates more passing like you were talking about).


April 13th, 2009, 8:29 am
Profile
Team MVP
User avatar

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Posts: 3362
Location: Saginaw, MI
Post 
I love all the talk about how we could use Curry, especially because i really want him as a Lion. But, after all this hype about Stafford, do you really think theres a chance the Lions will draft Curry? Im sensing we are going to draft Stafford (wonderful).

_________________
April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


Lionbacker2 Fantasy Champion 2011


April 13th, 2009, 1:13 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 310 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.