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http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20090123/?sub_id=F6ZH5VRSw846&folio=1

The above link is to an online Sporting News column that lists some of teh players that have done well at the Senior Bowl practices. A lot of the players mentioned in it have already been discussed in this thread.

Here's another link to some more Senior Bowl notes:
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20090123/?sub_id=F6ZH5VRSw846&folio=1


January 25th, 2009, 1:41 pm
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phunnypharm: Those links are exactly the same.

Quote:
BJ Raji - Don't be mislead. He was huge doing exactly what was expected. The South Squad completely gameplanned for him as he always had a double team and occasionally had a triple team.


So, what I get from this is that he made no plays because he was double teamed. He was good because the other team thought he was good and succeeded in neutralizing him? In what way was he impressive?

Quote:
Ron Brace - Didn't jump out at me, except for one play where he pursued a ball carrier and did not give up on the play.


Did he get double teamed too? What I'm looking for out of him is a block eater, run stuffer. I don't care if he gets upfield or makes sacks. What I'd like to know is if the opposing team could run between the tackles on his side of the line.

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Brian Cushing - Didn't jump out, but he showed good technique when the ball came his way. Not a guy who navigated to the play though.


That Sporting News article mentions only one linebacker and it was Cushing who was noted as impressive. I believe it said 'freakish athleticism' and 'first rounder'. This may just be from practice observation, however.

It also says that CB Coye Francies had a huge week, answering ?s about his speed. It lists him as a possible first rounder. If we go LT in the first, I wouldn't mind seeing him at 2a, if he's that good. If we go somewhere else in the first round, we should take Guard here IMO.

-ILMP


January 25th, 2009, 4:09 pm
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InterimLionsMasterPimp wrote:
phunnypharm: Those links are exactly the same.

Quote:
BJ Raji - Don't be mislead. He was huge doing exactly what was expected. The South Squad completely gameplanned for him as he always had a double team and occasionally had a triple team.


So, what I get from this is that he made no plays because he was double teamed. He was good because the other team thought he was good and succeeded in neutralizing him? In what way was he impressive?

Quote:
Ron Brace - Didn't jump out at me, except for one play where he pursued a ball carrier and did not give up on the play.


Did he get double teamed too? What I'm looking for out of him is a block eater, run stuffer. I don't care if he gets upfield or makes sacks. What I'd like to know is if the opposing team could run between the tackles on his side of the line.

Quote:
Brian Cushing - Didn't jump out, but he showed good technique when the ball came his way. Not a guy who navigated to the play though.


That Sporting News article mentions only one linebacker and it was Cushing who was noted as impressive. I believe it said 'freakish athleticism' and 'first rounder'. This may just be from practice observation, however.

I like how you pick and choose what I say to misconstrue it. BJ Raji made several plays, which I didn't mention. But the most impressive thing was the effect of letting those surrounding him look better then they were. Some of the announcers mentioned how because of what he did this week and the game, they moved him to their top 5.

Ron Brace was definitely not seeing the same blocking schemes that Raji was. What I don't understand is your double standard. Raji occupied consistently 2 blockers, and occasionally three. And all you're looking for is if Brace occupies a block? Sure he did. Everyone on the line had at least one guy. All runs were mostly successful on the outside off the tackles. And then you ask if you're supposed to be impressed if an offense specifically changes their game plan for a single player? Of course, there's no greater form of flattery.

I know it hurts you to hear someone getting some love from analysts cause it's at the expense for your Aaron Curry man love. But that was his mistake. Curry did not impress as much as previous linebackers in drafts of years past. He had a chance to show up and prove himself in the Senior Bowl but decided to rest on his laurels.

The sporting article refers to the entire body of work for the weeks activity. Cushing wowed people in the practices so I was looking for him to stand out in the 'game.' Which he didn't. He was there, but he didn't jump out at you in the game. When a guy receives accolades during the week, you expect a lot more.

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January 25th, 2009, 5:02 pm
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Quote:
I like how you pick and choose what I say to misconstrue it.


I pick and choose because I have questions on specific points and don't want to quote entire blocks of text. It makes it harder and slower to navigate the forum and read the new information.

Regarding Raji, I just wanted a little more detail on your own 'man love', as well as a comparison between him and his teammate. The double standard is appropriate, I think, as I'd expect different things out of a high first rounder than a possible 3rd rounder. Out of Brace, I'd just like to get an above average NFL starter at DT, a guy who can improve our run D. Out of Raji, for the price, I'd expect something more Haynesworth-esque, if you will.

He is playing himself out of Lions reach, unless we intend to nab him at #1. I actually wouldn't mind. Tommie Harris just got a 4 year extension from the Bears for 40 million, so the money is there at that position if he projects. I don't hate Raji, I'm just looking for value in Brace. Heck, nab 'em both: 1a and 3a. We already know they play well together. We'd instantly have a much more stout run D. We could still use a LB though.

Regarding Curry, I suspect he probably has more to lose by showing than he has to gain. He is already at the top, so he can only hurt his stock. I'd have liked to have seen him personally.

-ILMP


January 25th, 2009, 8:38 pm
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You already had your answer when you chose to delete:

"Because of that Larry English had a field day blowing by a single blocker."

The point was obvious that any defender around him benefited him from his freeing them up to make plays.

I would hardly call my enthusiam for Raji, 'man-love'. I'm equally high on him as I am for Brian Orakpo, two of the top left tackles as I am about Aaron Curry, and it's been documented in various posts throughout this forum. I haven't allowed myself to single out one player and start a "Said-Player or bust" band-wagon. I've done it before, but this year is not the year to do it. Your apparent Aaron Curry favoritism is pretty clear with all your LT-smearing posts, and you miscontruing my comments on Raji. Believe me I like Aaron Curry, but your smearing of these other prospects is pretty annoying.

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January 25th, 2009, 8:53 pm
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Point taken. But I'm not smearing specific players, rather than the position. My desire to pick outside of the LT spot is based more on value and needs than the players themselves. I'm sure Smith (both of them), Monroe, Britton, and Oher will make fine tackles. I'm hardly in the business of smearing players.

My choice of Curry was a recent one and is more of a positional one as well. I had actually advocated quite ardently the acquisition of Sam Bradford. His decision to return prompted my switch to LB. My particular preference is for Curry as the best player at that position. I've been trying to help people see him as superior to Maualuga, Laurinitis and Co. at that position.

It was not my intent to be critical of you in any way, so please don't take it as such. It can be read in more than one way. Perhaps the South squad double teamed the wrong guy. If they had given help on Larry English, then he would not have had a 'field day' as you put it. Would Raji have had more effect than English had he been the one singled? Did Raji make plays despite being double teamed? The fact that he was the one double teamed speaks to his reputation. The tackles, penetration, stuffs, etc... speak to his performance. That is what I was getting at.

-ILMP


January 25th, 2009, 11:08 pm
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I will make this simple observation. But let me preceed it by making a point. I did not see this years Senior Bowl, unfortunately. I have not read one single review about the players and how they performed in either the practices or the game.

I will say this, it has been my experience that the players who "show up" on game day make the best athletes in the pros. Mark Anderson is one who makes my point. He didn't have a great career, and wasn't a "standout" at the SB practices. However, he played very well in the game, yet received little attention for it.

As such, the Bears "stole" him in round five, and the rest is history. The guy is a very solid pass rusher, something the Lions could use.

Moral of the Story? Players that show up on Game Day are the ones that the scouts, coaches and analysts should be paying the most attention to. Practice is..............practice. It means little in college, and nothing in the pros.


January 26th, 2009, 12:31 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
Practice is..............practice. It means little in college, and nothing in the pros.


Practice. We talking bout practice man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI


January 26th, 2009, 2:57 pm
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Guess I'll post this here since it involves the Sr. Bowl but it could go in any number of threads.


This is from Peter King's MMQB page 5.


Quote:
2. I think, with no games this weekend, that I'll have Phil Savage, the former Browns' general manager who scouted all the practices at the Senior Bowl in Mobile last week, check in with his thoughts on the movers and shakers among the prospects there:

a. The senior quarterback group is not strong. Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez [juniors from Georgia and USC, respectively] must have known if they came out, they'd go high. ... I liked the arm of Rhett Bomar, the Sam Houston State quarterback. He got a lot of exposure here and kept himself alive.

b. Alex Mack, the center from Cal, distanced himself from the pack at his position. He probably got himself into late in the first round.

c. Brian Cushing and Rey Maualuga get the attention as USC linebackers, and they're good. But Clay Matthews Jr. weighed in three pounds heavier than Cushing and showed he can play inside or outside linebacker. He went from being a mid-round guy in the fall to late in the first or the second round. He was a 175-pound kid in high school. He's 246 and instinctive, just like his dad. (Clay Matthews Sr. played 19 NFL seasons in Cleveland and Atlanta, and his 278 games played are third-most in history.)

d. Cushing looks like a pro, an outside 'backer, kind of like a Kevin Greene.

e. Brian Robiskie, the Ohio State wide receiver, has had his speed questioned, but you can tell this is a kid who'd been to NFL camps and worked with his dad, because in the one-on-ones, he was very prepared and competitive. He's probably still a mid-round pick, but he's a good third-receiver type, a possession type who will make some plays with his size and his hands.

f. Rey Maualuga is a first- and second-down run defender. Not sure if he's going to be a great third-down player.

g. Pat White's been at the center of a lot of debate about whether he can play quarterback in the NFL. It's probably a longshot at 6-foot and 190, but who knows? I'd love to see him play that wildcat spot. We had Josh Cribbs do it in Cleveland because he could throw the ball. I would think Pat White's a receiver, probably, but he can be a third quarterback type and play the wildcat. He adds a dimension to the Wildcat because he can throw.

h. Michael Oher, the tackle from Ole Miss, is shrouded in mystery. He's the kid [Michael Lewis] wrote the book on, who kind of went from poverty to a suburban life because of football. He had a solid week, put himself in position to be a top 10 pick. He's 6-5, 325, with long arms. He's athletic, and he should be able to play left tackle. The great thing about taking a left tackle is if he doesn't pan out, he'll be able to be a right tackle.


i. The best three players I saw, maybe, were Cushing, Oher and Brandon Pettigrew, a tight end from Oklahoma State who is probably the most complete tight end in the country. Very impressed with him. He could go at the bottom of the first round.

j. Not much of a surprise, but 46 juniors came out, and I've seen most of them now, and I think it could potentially be the biggest draft for juniors ever. There will be something between 12 and 20 juniors picked in the first round.

k. First pick in the draft? If it's Detroit, and Jim Schwartz is talking about Bobby Layne, and the offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan, who wants a big, strong-thrower, I'd say the big strong QB with a strong arm would be the pick. Matthew Stafford is big and throws the ball so well. It's a pretty easy guess.


I bolded the parts that were most pertinent to our #1 overall pick and/or players people on this board were high on. Im still sold on Oher. Also, as noted above these evaluations are from Phil Savage, who we are looking at adding as our personnel man.


January 26th, 2009, 9:46 pm
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M2K makes a great point and I don't want to discount it except to balance it out. A few years ago Charlie Whitehurst played lights out in the Senior Bowl but he was inconsistent in practices. He hasn't done anything in the NFL. So, yes, sometimes the guy has a good game because he's a "gamer" but sometimes he's just inconsistent and you've caught him on a good day.

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January 26th, 2009, 10:16 pm
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inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Guess I'll post this here since it involves the Sr. Bowl but it could go in any number of threads.


This is from Peter King's MMQB page 5.


Quote:
2. I think, with no games this weekend, that I'll have Phil Savage, the former Browns' general manager who scouted all the practices at the Senior Bowl in Mobile last week, check in with his thoughts on the movers and shakers among the prospects there:

a. The senior quarterback group is not strong. Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez [juniors from Georgia and USC, respectively] must have known if they came out, they'd go high. ... I liked the arm of Rhett Bomar, the Sam Houston State quarterback. He got a lot of exposure here and kept himself alive.

b. Alex Mack, the center from Cal, distanced himself from the pack at his position. He probably got himself into late in the first round.

c. Brian Cushing and Rey Maualuga get the attention as USC linebackers, and they're good. But Clay Matthews Jr. weighed in three pounds heavier than Cushing and showed he can play inside or outside linebacker. He went from being a mid-round guy in the fall to late in the first or the second round. He was a 175-pound kid in high school. He's 246 and instinctive, just like his dad. (Clay Matthews Sr. played 19 NFL seasons in Cleveland and Atlanta, and his 278 games played are third-most in history.)

d. Cushing looks like a pro, an outside 'backer, kind of like a Kevin Greene.

e. Brian Robiskie, the Ohio State wide receiver, has had his speed questioned, but you can tell this is a kid who'd been to NFL camps and worked with his dad, because in the one-on-ones, he was very prepared and competitive. He's probably still a mid-round pick, but he's a good third-receiver type, a possession type who will make some plays with his size and his hands.

f. Rey Maualuga is a first- and second-down run defender. Not sure if he's going to be a great third-down player.

g. Pat White's been at the center of a lot of debate about whether he can play quarterback in the NFL. It's probably a longshot at 6-foot and 190, but who knows? I'd love to see him play that wildcat spot. We had Josh Cribbs do it in Cleveland because he could throw the ball. I would think Pat White's a receiver, probably, but he can be a third quarterback type and play the wildcat. He adds a dimension to the Wildcat because he can throw.

h. Michael Oher, the tackle from Ole Miss, is shrouded in mystery. He's the kid [Michael Lewis] wrote the book on, who kind of went from poverty to a suburban life because of football. He had a solid week, put himself in position to be a top 10 pick. He's 6-5, 325, with long arms. He's athletic, and he should be able to play left tackle. The great thing about taking a left tackle is if he doesn't pan out, he'll be able to be a right tackle.


i. The best three players I saw, maybe, were Cushing, Oher and Brandon Pettigrew, a tight end from Oklahoma State who is probably the most complete tight end in the country. Very impressed with him. He could go at the bottom of the first round.

j. Not much of a surprise, but 46 juniors came out, and I've seen most of them now, and I think it could potentially be the biggest draft for juniors ever. There will be something between 12 and 20 juniors picked in the first round.

k. First pick in the draft? If it's Detroit, and Jim Schwartz is talking about Bobby Layne, and the offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan, who wants a big, strong-thrower, I'd say the big strong QB with a strong arm would be the pick. Matthew Stafford is big and throws the ball so well. It's a pretty easy guess.


I bolded the parts that were most pertinent to our #1 overall pick and/or players people on this board were high on. Im still sold on Oher. Also, as noted above these evaluations are from Phil Savage, who we are looking at adding as our personnel man.

I also still think Oher is the best pick at #1. I think he's going to be a stud.

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January 27th, 2009, 12:47 am
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Quote:
I also still think Oher is the best pick at #1. I think he's going to be a stud.


First off, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with his potential pimp stud factor, but please consider:

Mel Kiper has him at #28 Philadelphia (from Carolina) Michael Oher OT Mississippi. Many others have him outside of the top 10. Should not the top overall pick be at least universally regarded as a top 5, top 10 minimum quality player?

Players like Andre Smith, Stafford, Jenkins, and Curry are almost universally top 10, most top 5 picks. There must be something there to warrant a significant drop in position, no?

-ILMP


January 28th, 2009, 12:23 am
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InterimLionsMasterPimp wrote:
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I also still think Oher is the best pick at #1. I think he's going to be a stud.


First off, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with his potential pimp stud factor, but please consider:

Mel Kiper has him at #28 Philadelphia (from Carolina) Michael Oher OT Mississippi. Many others have him outside of the top 10. Should not the top overall pick be at least universally regarded as a top 5, top 10 minimum quality player?

Players like Andre Smith, Stafford, Jenkins, and Curry are almost universally top 10, most top 5 picks. There must be something there to warrant a significant drop in position, no?

-ILMP


ILMP your baseing this on Kiper? The guys is more worried what his hair looks like then what his mock draft lineup is. Wait for the combine. Then we'll see where Oher sits.

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January 28th, 2009, 1:15 am
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The reason analysts are knocking Michael Oher back is because of his inconsistency. He plays well for a few plays, and then suddenly he gets out of sync and plays mediocre for a few plays. All the analysts agree that man for man, he has the best physical skills and a pretty polished technique when he's on.

Now, the question to ask is, why is he inconsistent. It MAY have to do with the fact that he had something like three different coaches in four years at Ole Miss. Some feel that once he gets the big check, he's gonna shut 'er down and be the mediocre style player he can be from time to time.

But many of the analysts making these statements are the same ones who label Andre Smith as a "can't miss" prospect, and I see BUST written all over him. Weight problems, shorter than prototypical LTs with less than ideal footwork? How is that a "can't miss" prospect?

I am actually beginning to like Eugene Monroe over both of them even more. While Virginia's season was nothing to write home about, let's remember that Monroe was put at LT and forced Brandon Albert to play inside at LG. Albert is now playing LT for the Chiefs. That's gotta say something for Monroe's abilities at LT, that he could beat out Brandon Albert for the position. Monroe may not have all the physical skills that Oher does, but he's far more consistent and has a better motor. He finished his blocks strongly, and is a touch better in pass protection.

Tough call to make. Just don't call Stafford or Sanchez on draft day, please!


January 28th, 2009, 10:16 am
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Quote:
ILMP your basing this on Kiper?


No. I knew I'd take flack for that, but his was the most readily available example. That's why I stated the part about others having him out of the top 10. It's not just Kiper.

So I hear the Oher guys saying Smith will bust and Smith guys saying Oher will 'cash it in', and then guys like you(m2k) saying pass on both for Monroe. I would like everyone to agree on one thing- we may as well just roll dice to decide who is the best LT.

Your OC doesn't want a LT anyway, and your HC is a defensive guy. Don't bet your lunch money on LT.

-ILMP


January 28th, 2009, 10:21 pm
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