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 Lions must dig for gems in all rounds of the draft 
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Post Lions must dig for gems in all rounds of the draft
Freep wrote:
January 26, 2009


Lions must dig for gems in all rounds of the draft

BY DREW SHARP
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The NFL draft is three months away, and I'm already exhausted from the endless hot air of what the Lions MUST do with their early picks.

How can there be any absolutes before next month's combine in Indianapolis and the individual workouts?

They MUST take an offensive lineman, they CAN'T take a quarterback.

How can anybody logically suggest on Jan. 26 that any prospect is clearly the best overall, regardless of position, before the evaluative process has begun?

They CAN'T.

A football doctorate isn't required for appreciating the value of an excellent offensive line. You must dominate at the point of attack. But those who adamantly insist that the Lions' surest path toward respectability is stockpiling an offensive line with first- and second-round draft picks should look at the starting offensive lines of the Super Bowl participants -- Pittsburgh and Arizona.

There is one first-round draft pick -- Arizona right tackle Levi Brown, selected fifth overall in 2007.

There is one second-round pick -- Cardinals right guard Deuce Lutui was the 41st player selected in 2006.

There are two starters who went undrafted -- Arizona center Lyle Sendlein and Pittsburgh right guard Darnell Stapleton -- and three others who were sixth-round selections.

Look at what arguably are the three best offensive lines during the regular season when factoring in two important criteria: NFL rank in rushing offense and fewest sacks allowed.

Atlanta, Tennessee and Carolina were the highest-ranked offensive lines applying the above-mentioned parameters. The Falcons used a first-round and second-round pick on the left side of the offensive line. But their center (Todd McClure) and right tackle and right guard (Tyson Clabo and Harvey Dahl) were either taken in the seventh round or were undrafted free agents.

The highest-drafted player on the Titans' starting offensive line was left tackle Michael Roos, a second-round selection. But he plays beside a guard (Eugene Amano) drafted by Tennessee in the seventh round.

The Panthers' offensive line resembles the Lions' in that they have dual first-round picks at tackle (Jordan Gross and rookie Jeff Otah) and a second-round choice at center (Ryan Kalil).

But all similarities end there because Carolina invested high draft choices on linemen who are ... good.

The true measure of a front office's capacity for talent evaluation is finding those quality interior linemen deep into the draft. That was the Lions' biggest personnel failure during the Matt Millen error, excuse me, era.

And that's where general manager Martin Mayhew can best separate himself from his notorious predecessor. Can he alleviate the public trauma of potentially not selecting Alabama left tackle Andre Smith with the first overall selection by striking second-day drafting gold?

The fallacy in the search for the No. 1 pick overall is this misguided notion of a "safe choice." There is no such sanctuary when you're possibly committing as much as $34 million in up-front rookie signing bonus money.

Should the Lions deem Smith the most worthy of the first selection overall, he had better quickly become the second coming of Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden. That's the only way the Lions could fiscally justify jettisoning current left tackle Jeff Backus, taking a sizable and immediate salary cap hit if Backus couldn't adapt to playing guard.

The Lions could have three first-round choices on the offensive line, making them the exception rather than the NFL rule. And they've never been too successful in that role.

But they have sufficient time before rendering any final judgments. Let them use it.

Mock drafts in January should be mocked.

The only thing the Lions MUST do is get players -- at every position.

The first overall pick will take care of itself, whether it's Smith, Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford, USC quarterback Mark Sanchez or possibly a pass rusher who is flying beneath the drafting radar. But building the right offensive line usually requires using the entire draft.

Contact DREW SHARP at 313-223-4055 or dsharp@freepress.com.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090126/C ... erall+pick

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January 26th, 2009, 1:56 pm
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So, the evaluation process doesn't start until the Combines?

Drew Sharp, you are truly one of the dumbest sports columnists I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

For your information, you gnat brained moron, the evaluation process should begin early in the players' college careers. Standouts can be found in their first year of full or part time duty. NFL Scouts should be beginning to compile statistics and building databases on those players THAT early.

The Combines and Pro Days do have some impact, but not nearly as much as watching countless hours of videotape on that player and his performances from the past season, or two.

The Combines and Pro Days allow the teams to review pertinent medical data, collect psychological evaluations and possibly dig further into the players legal past. But in regards to on field play, the video is the best judge for that. And last time I checked, all that video was gathered BEFORE January 26th.

What an idiot.


January 26th, 2009, 2:19 pm
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I get the gist of what he was getting at (with having to find gems-a-plenty to get back to respectability... but that was a really dumb comment about not getting the evaluation process started until after the combine. Most of his articles seem to go that way... A good overall topic with some dumb comments in between the lines.


January 26th, 2009, 5:25 pm
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Quote:
How can anybody logically suggest on Jan. 26 that any prospect is clearly the best overall, regardless of position, before the evaluative process has begun?


My take on this comment is that Drew Sharp has revealed when HIS OWN INTEREST in the draft process begins.

Nothing more than that.

I've been a "draft nut" for years, and while I don't get paid to do any scouting like the actual NFL scouts do.....I start watching players early in the season just to form an opinion on them for the draft. I've set the TiVo to watch college teams I couldn't care less about just to see certain players.

As I've gotten older......work and family certainly have cut into my time that I can afford to spend watching "tape" as they say........but I even think back to 2007 when I saw Otah jump off the screen at me as a good OT prospect. I didn't need to hear how fast he ran 40 yards, how high he jumped, or any of that "data" to tell me that he was a good athlete. I saw it with my own EYES on the "tape" as Moron-elli would say.

The only thing about these prospects that changes between 1/26/09 and late April is how much HYPE guys like Sharp can build for them. Granted, there are some players that we may not know as much about yet........but MOST of them have aren't going to sneak up on the scouts.

Perhaps the most useful info the NFL can learn about these players in the next few months is WHICH guys have the work ethic and discipline to stay in great shape without the help of a college football factory pushing them along.......and which ones can stay out of trouble now that they don't have teammates and coaches keeping them focused.


January 26th, 2009, 7:33 pm
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I'm going to change pace to a player I think could be a late round gem, Sammie Stroughter out of Oregon State. He has good size, speed, and return skills; making him a good complement to Calvin. He missed some time his junior year, I believe, due to depression issues but has since gotten them under control and became once again the play maker he's been his whole career. From article's I've read his coaches and teammates love him, and he's a great young man. Here's a short video I found of him, please forgive the awful music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mj72V5WzW0[/url]


January 27th, 2009, 2:50 pm
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phunnypharm wrote:
Quote:
How can anybody logically suggest on Jan. 26 that any prospect is clearly the best overall, regardless of position, before the evaluative process has begun?


I've been a "draft nut" for years, and while I don't get paid to do any scouting like the actual NFL scouts do.....I start watching players early in the season just to form an opinion on them for the draft. I've set the TiVo to watch college teams I couldn't care less about just to see certain players.

As I've gotten older......work and family certainly have cut into my time that I can afford to spend watching "tape" as they say........but I even think back to 2007 when I saw Otah jump off the screen at me as a good OT prospect. I didn't need to hear how fast he ran 40 yards, how high he jumped, or any of that "data" to tell me that he was a good athlete. I saw it with my own EYES on the "tape" as Moron-elli would say.

The only thing about these prospects that changes between 1/26/09 and late April is how much HYPE guys like Sharp can build for them. Granted, there are some players that we may not know as much about yet........but MOST of them have aren't going to sneak up on the scouts.

Perhaps the most useful info the NFL can learn about these players in the next few months is WHICH guys have the work ethic and discipline to stay in great shape without the help of a college football factory pushing them along.......and which ones can stay out of trouble now that they don't have teammates and coaches keeping them focused.


I wholeheartedly agree phunny, I know we have our differences in how we approach the draft sometimes, but we are the same when it comes to the actual prospects themselves. The single most important thing is what they do on the field. I would even assign 80% and up to 90%+ of it's importance. So that's 80%-90%+ of the process being sorted out by the time the BCS championship is over. The whole combine, senior bowl, pro day spiel is just to fine tune your scouting report. I often take the approach to use it to confirm what you see on film. If someone doesn't have a great combine or pro day. Who cares? I mean there's a point where it could hurt them but that doesn't happen often (see Maurice Clarett). But if the numbers don't show serious deficiences, the fact that they produced well on game day should be the ultimate reason why you consider a prospect.

This is why I haven't fallen in love with Curry yet. I haven't seen a video where he just makes your jaw drop, like previous years linebacker. I've actually requested video from certain guys I know to help me change my mind. This is also why I wouldn't mind a left tackle, the guys simply look good on tape. I made a guard video thread and I could care less if people say Herman Johnson is slow, I see the video and he's often the primary component why the running back has a running lane to go through, then he drops back in pass coverage and he locks on and his man can't escape. This is why I've soured on Lauranitis and would not touch him with our 2nd round pick. Guy looks late to the ball, floats around, and has me screaming at him on tv because there's so much hype, but the tape leaves a lot to be desired.

How they performed on the field should be how a player is ultimately judged. I don't know when the last time I saw them performing drills, running a 40 or bench pressing without pads during a football game.

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January 27th, 2009, 6:16 pm
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garyos16 wrote:
I'm going to change pace to a player I think could be a late round gem, Sammie Stroughter out of Oregon State. He has good size, speed, and return skills; making him a good complement to Calvin. He missed some time his junior year, I believe, due to depression issues but has since gotten them under control and became once again the play maker he's been his whole career. From article's I've read his coaches and teammates love him, and he's a great young man. Here's a short video I found of him, please forgive the awful music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mj72V5WzW0[/url]


Nice looking player. He looks like a jitterbug who can start and stop on a dime. His change of direction is top notch. Scouts will fault him for trying to do too much COD. I'd like to confirm his top end speed on a pro day. He did look extremely fast once he got into the open field. It looks like 4.3 speed, but I want to confirm it. That number will determine what day he goes. Because that number will determine if defenders can catch up to him or not once he gets into the open field. I would have liked to see TD's in the return game for his senior year, but by that time he probably had opponents ST on high alert. I guess he didn't return kickoffs though. Would have liked to see that and it does probably hurt him a bit.

He looked tiny. Like 5'-9" on tape, so it's nice to see him listed at 6'-0". Better for him being a part time receiver. Maybe he has short arms/reach. Senior Bowl reports say he met expectations. They say his size will make him give way to receivers with 'better tools.' But he looks great on tape. I liked that block where he layed out the USC player. Depression issues is a character flag. Seems like he's got it under control, but we have to consider how he would fare in Detroit, where the economy really is hitting hard, and if the team continues to be a perenial bottom feeder. Could he deal with that? He definitely would be a gem if you could get him on day two to be a full time P/K returner.

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January 27th, 2009, 7:04 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
So, the evaluation process doesn't start until the Combines?

Drew Sharp, you are truly one of the dumbest sports columnists I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

For your information, you gnat brained moron, the evaluation process should begin early in the players' college careers. Standouts can be found in their first year of full or part time duty. NFL Scouts should be beginning to compile statistics and building databases on those players THAT early.

The Combines and Pro Days do have some impact, but not nearly as much as watching countless hours of videotape on that player and his performances from the past season, or two.

The Combines and Pro Days allow the teams to review pertinent medical data, collect psychological evaluations and possibly dig further into the players legal past. But in regards to on field play, the video is the best judge for that. And last time I checked, all that video was gathered BEFORE January 26th.

What an idiot.


I'm not a scout, but I think from what I've read the NFL teams tend to scout only the draft eligible seniors for most of the season, and start hard on the underclassmen once they declare. It might prove to be too much of a task to track players as freshman and end up dumping that work once the guy gets hurt or drops off the radar for other reasons. What you're saying sounds logical, but I don't know if the resources exist to actually do what you suggest.

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January 27th, 2009, 11:43 pm
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jrd66 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
So, the evaluation process doesn't start until the Combines?

Drew Sharp, you are truly one of the dumbest sports columnists I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

For your information, you gnat brained moron, the evaluation process should begin early in the players' college careers. Standouts can be found in their first year of full or part time duty. NFL Scouts should be beginning to compile statistics and building databases on those players THAT early.

The Combines and Pro Days do have some impact, but not nearly as much as watching countless hours of videotape on that player and his performances from the past season, or two.

The Combines and Pro Days allow the teams to review pertinent medical data, collect psychological evaluations and possibly dig further into the players legal past. But in regards to on field play, the video is the best judge for that. And last time I checked, all that video was gathered BEFORE January 26th.

What an idiot.


I'm not a scout, but I think from what I've read the NFL teams tend to scout only the draft eligible seniors for most of the season, and start hard on the underclassmen once they declare. It might prove to be too much of a task to track players as freshman and end up dumping that work once the guy gets hurt or drops off the radar for other reasons. What you're saying sounds logical, but I don't know if the resources exist to actually do what you suggest.


I was friends with someone whos father was a scout in Lousiana for a couple different NFL teams. What I was basically told is that they will try to concentrate on those players who will be in the next draft, but when a player stands out they don't ignore it and will begin a file on that player. They spend HOURS looking at video and going to games. Many times the player he went to scout was shut down or outplayed by a younger player and that's who he ended up doing more scouting on.

NFL coaching staffs aren't interested in the distant future, that much is true. However, the scouts are paid to evaluate talent, regardless of the age. They keep hundreds of player files, not just for the coming draft. Much like college scouts will see high school freshman, or even middle school players with promising talent, NFL scouts are no different.


January 28th, 2009, 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Lions must dig for gems in all rounds of the draft
You can't ignore all of Drew Sharp's points just because he makes one idiotic statement. I've bolded what I agree to be great points:

TheRealWags wrote:
Freep wrote:
January 26, 2009


Lions must dig for gems in all rounds of the draft

BY DREW SHARP
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The NFL draft is three months away, and I'm already exhausted from the endless hot air of what the Lions MUST do with their early picks.

How can there be any absolutes before next month's combine in Indianapolis and the individual workouts?

They MUST take an offensive lineman, they CAN'T take a quarterback.

How can anybody logically suggest on Jan. 26 that any prospect is clearly the best overall, regardless of position, before the evaluative process has begun?

They CAN'T.

A football doctorate isn't required for appreciating the value of an excellent offensive line. You must dominate at the point of attack. But those who adamantly insist that the Lions' surest path toward respectability is stockpiling an offensive line with first- and second-round draft picks should look at the starting offensive lines of the Super Bowl participants -- Pittsburgh and Arizona.

There is one first-round draft pick -- Arizona right tackle Levi Brown, selected fifth overall in 2007.

There is one second-round pick -- Cardinals right guard Deuce Lutui was the 41st player selected in 2006.

There are two starters who went undrafted -- Arizona center Lyle Sendlein and Pittsburgh right guard Darnell Stapleton -- and three others who were sixth-round selections.

Look at what arguably are the three best offensive lines during the regular season when factoring in two important criteria: NFL rank in rushing offense and fewest sacks allowed.

Atlanta, Tennessee and Carolina were the highest-ranked offensive lines applying the above-mentioned parameters. The Falcons used a first-round and second-round pick on the left side of the offensive line. But their center (Todd McClure) and right tackle and right guard (Tyson Clabo and Harvey Dahl) were either taken in the seventh round or were undrafted free agents.

The highest-drafted player on the Titans' starting offensive line was left tackle Michael Roos, a second-round selection. But he plays beside a guard (Eugene Amano) drafted by Tennessee in the seventh round.

The Panthers' offensive line resembles the Lions' in that they have dual first-round picks at tackle (Jordan Gross and rookie Jeff Otah) and a second-round choice at center (Ryan Kalil).


But all similarities end there because Carolina invested high draft choices on linemen who are ... good.

The true measure of a front office's capacity for talent evaluation is finding those quality interior linemen deep into the draft. That was the Lions' biggest personnel failure during the Matt Millen error, excuse me, era.

And that's where general manager Martin Mayhew can best separate himself from his notorious predecessor. Can he alleviate the public trauma of potentially not selecting Alabama left tackle Andre Smith with the first overall selection by striking second-day drafting gold?

The fallacy in the search for the No. 1 pick overall is this misguided notion of a "safe choice." There is no such sanctuary when you're possibly committing as much as $34 million in up-front rookie signing bonus money.

Should the Lions deem Smith the most worthy of the first selection overall, he had better quickly become the second coming of Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden. That's the only way the Lions could fiscally justify jettisoning current left tackle Jeff Backus, taking a sizable and immediate salary cap hit if Backus couldn't adapt to playing guard.

The Lions could have three first-round choices on the offensive line, making them the exception rather than the NFL rule. And they've never been too successful in that role.

But they have sufficient time before rendering any final judgments. Let them use it.

Mock drafts in January should be mocked.

The only thing the Lions MUST do is get players -- at every position.

The first overall pick will take care of itself, whether it's Smith, Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford, USC quarterback Mark Sanchez or possibly a pass rusher who is flying beneath the drafting radar. But building the right offensive line usually requires using the entire draft.

Contact DREW SHARP at 313-223-4055 or dsharp@freepress.com.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090126/C ... erall+pick


January 28th, 2009, 5:14 pm
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jrd66 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
So, the evaluation process doesn't start until the Combines?

Drew Sharp, you are truly one of the dumbest sports columnists I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

For your information, you gnat brained moron, the evaluation process should begin early in the players' college careers. Standouts can be found in their first year of full or part time duty. NFL Scouts should be beginning to compile statistics and building databases on those players THAT early.

The Combines and Pro Days do have some impact, but not nearly as much as watching countless hours of videotape on that player and his performances from the past season, or two.

The Combines and Pro Days allow the teams to review pertinent medical data, collect psychological evaluations and possibly dig further into the players legal past. But in regards to on field play, the video is the best judge for that. And last time I checked, all that video was gathered BEFORE January 26th.

What an idiot.


I'm not a scout, but I think from what I've read the NFL teams tend to scout only the draft eligible seniors for most of the season, and start hard on the underclassmen once they declare. It might prove to be too much of a task to track players as freshman and end up dumping that work once the guy gets hurt or drops off the radar for other reasons. What you're saying sounds logical, but I don't know if the resources exist to actually do what you suggest.


I'm certainly no scout........although I sometimes wish I could be.

However.... the RESOURCES should definitely exist for a $1 billion dollar company to hire enough people to watch film and evaluate college film on these players.

First....... the scouts can simply CALL the coaches from each college team and ask them some questions to help filter their search a little bit. Most coaches will be truthful to NFL scouts because they know if they aren't.... then NFL teams will start to avoid drafting their players..... and that will hurt the recruiting at that college.

Each year, there are about 300 players invited to the scouting combine.

These players didn't sneak up on their coaches.

It may be true that the "pool" of NFL hopefuls is reduced each year as some players "flop" on the college level, and others have career threatening/ending injuries..... but I think it is safe to say that scouts can know most of the players they need to watch for after their Sophomore seasons.

This number may even be closer to 1000 players...... but that isn't really that big when you consider that a team can hire as many scouts as they would like.


And....as M2K mentioned..... ALL of their video tape is compiled BEFORE January 26th!!!

These scouts can go over video of players YEAR ROUND!!!

After the draft ends....... the scouts have May, June, July, and August to start getting familiar with Juniors who are returning for their senior season, Sophomores due to be Juniors, Freshmen that received significant playing time, and even Freshmen that are "expected" to make a bigger contribution in 2009.

They have 4 months to watch film on these players......and they have access to the coaches film as well. There is NO EXCUSE why the scouts would NOT know who to be watching early and oftenn.

Hell....... you can even find most players to watch on the internet these days!!!!!!


January 29th, 2009, 12:06 am
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Guys, I think you're right on one level that there can be some preliminary study of some players who are standouts early. However, the thought that the scouts know who they need to look at changes simply from the fact that not all college players start as freshmen or sophmores. Many become starters as juniors when they have developed and the player in front of them has graduated.

If you'd like an example: Barry Sanders.

He was 2nd string behind Thurman Thomas and returned kicks. How much film on him was there for the scouts to know what he would be? Not much really.

There's a big difference between scouting one years worth of players vs 3. I think M2K hit it pretty well in the 2nd post. There's some limited looks at the younger guys, but the hard work will only be done once the player is draft eligible. Anything else is kind of wasteful, in the sense that it detracts from the efforts on the 500 or so players who need evaluation each year.

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January 29th, 2009, 12:26 am
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Quote:
You can't ignore all of Drew Sharp's points just because he makes one idiotic statement. I've bolded what I agree to be great points:


This is finding a SMALL sample size that fits his argument.

He didn't mention some of the other playoff teams that CLEARLY value the O-line.

#1....

Philly has three 1st round picks on their O-line. They also have a 2nd round OT waiting in the wings in Winston Justice.

#2...

Vikings have McKinnie (top 10 pick) and Hutchinson (top 20) on their line. They paid almost $50 million t osign Hutch as a free agent. They drafted Cook (ORT) in the 2nd round a few years ago. Birk has been there forever, and they are paying him well to stick around.

#3....

Baltimore has Ben Grubbs (1st round), Gaither (3rd round supplemental) who replaced a #4 overall pick in Ogden, Jason Brown (2nd round), Terry as a backup (2nd round), and now former 1st round pick Willie Anderson on their line.

#4.....

Miami has #1 overall Jake Long, 1st round ORT Vernon Carey, 3rd OC Samson Satele, former 2nd rounder Justin Smiley signed as a free agent.



TRUTH:

Not every team is built with a team full of 1st round Offensive O-linemen.

Many GOOD teams have highly drafted O-linemen ANCHORING their line for years.

Even IF the top O-linemen on good teams aren't drafted highly.......then these players are RARELY available in free agency during their PRIME!!!

Most really good O-linemen are drafted.... and then retained by their original team.


Therefore..... it would be hard to argue that the BEST way to build a better O-line is to wait until round 4 of the draft to get started!!!


January 29th, 2009, 12:26 am
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Quote:
If you'd like an example: Barry Sanders.

He was 2nd string behind Thurman Thomas and returned kicks. How much film on him was there for the scouts to know what he would be? Not much really


NOT TRUE!!!

Barry Sanders led the NCAA in kick return average AND punt return average as a sophomore........ and did so with STAGGERING numbers that attracted my attention before he ever started a game at RB.

He may not have had a bunch of tape as a RB...... but there was film available that would indicate his explosive running ability well before he put up the stats that would make history as a RB.


January 29th, 2009, 12:30 am
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