View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently November 26th, 2014, 2:37 am



Reply to topic  [ 135 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 Your Ideal Draft 
Author Message
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: December 16th, 2008, 8:44 am
Posts: 843
Post 
I was going to say... Do you guys honestly think there wasn't one scout in that building that wanted him to run routes? There is a reason he didn't run, and it doens't have anything to do with a lack of interest.

I'm wondering if he underestimated the position and isn't happy with the way he runs routes.

That doesn't take anything away from his throwing skills... But at your pro day, you should be doing everything and hiding nothing. It's your home field, and if you can't do it there, you can't do it in the NFL.


March 19th, 2009, 6:44 am
Profile
Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post 
faulkn22 wrote:
I was going to say... Do you guys honestly think there wasn't one scout in that building that wanted him to run routes? There is a reason he didn't run, and it doens't have anything to do with a lack of interest.

I'm wondering if he underestimated the position and isn't happy with the way he runs routes.

That doesn't take anything away from his throwing skills... But at your pro day, you should be doing everything and hiding nothing. It's your home field, and if you can't do it there, you can't do it in the NFL.


I'm typing this with my objectivity completely out the window. I'm a huge Pat White fan and attended every home game he played at WVU. With that said, most of the country doesn't understand him and how driven he is.

He grew up in Alabama and was offered scholarships by a number of the SEC powerhouses, including Auburn and LSU. But they wanted him as a DB or WR. He was drafted by the California Angels out of high school as well. WVU was the only place that told him he could play QB. In the end, he decided that being a QB was most important to him so he left SEC territory and passed up pro baseball to go to WVU. Now I'm a WVU fan, but even I can see that he made an unusual choice.

I get the sense that the draft process is deja vu all over again for Pat White. He keeps performing well on the field as a QB, but still has people telling him that he can't play QB. History shows that he's going to keep fighting to be a QB until he can't fight anymore.

Frankly, a year ago, I didn't think he'd play QB in the NFL. Now I think he's the best QB in the draft.

I have no idea what happened at his Pro Day and why Bill Stewart was telling scouts that there would be no WR workout. Stewart and White are both practically Boy Scouts--difficult to imagine that they intended to deceive. Whatever happened, I'm sure that all of this goes back to White's dedication to playing QB and proving that he can do it.


March 19th, 2009, 10:23 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9954
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
Somewhere along the line you have to show dedication to a TEAM, and not your own ambitions. Pat White may have shown well in his QB workouts.....but they are workouts, not the real deal. There have been others who changed positions for the sake of their team, and ultimately did themselves a favor by making that change of position. NFL teams are NOT interested in what Pat White wants, they are interested in what he can do where they think he should be playing, and if he is willing to make that change for the sake of the team.

Pat White bad a very questionable business decision in NOT showing NFL scouts and coaches his ability to work as a receiver. He definitely hurt his draft stock considerably.


March 19th, 2009, 11:12 am
Profile
Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
Somewhere along the line you have to show dedication to a TEAM, and not your own ambitions. Pat White may have shown well in his QB workouts.....but they are workouts, not the real deal. There have been others who changed positions for the sake of their team, and ultimately did themselves a favor by making that change of position. NFL teams are NOT interested in what Pat White wants, they are interested in what he can do where they think he should be playing, and if he is willing to make that change for the sake of the team.

Pat White bad a very questionable business decision in NOT showing NFL scouts and coaches his ability to work as a receiver. He definitely hurt his draft stock considerably.


It is WAY too early to make the "for the sake of the team" argument. Pat White doesn't HAVE a team! No one has asked him to switch positions. He has stated several times that if his team asks him to play WR, he will make the switch. Until that happens, he views himself as a QB.

By refusing to run routes, he is marketing himself ONLY to the teams that view him as a QB. Anyone who wants him as a "WR only" will be taking a risk in the draft since they've not seen him run routes. Thus, he is reducing the number of teams that might be interested in him but increasing his odds of playing QB. White is taking a personal risk by employing this strategy, but if it backfires, he's the one that will suffer the consequences--not a team.


March 19th, 2009, 12:10 pm
Profile
Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post 
P.S. Do we need a Pat White thread? :lol:


March 19th, 2009, 12:12 pm
Profile
Hall of Fame Player
User avatar

Joined: May 7th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Posts: 7490
Location: Earth/Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy
Post 
mwill2 wrote:
P.S. Do we need a Pat White thread? :lol:


Apparently we do. LOL.

Personally, I admire his intestinal fortitude. He is committed to being a QB.
He kind of reminds me of Doug Flutie.
I would not mind us using our first 6th round pick on him and then drafting a QB in the 1st round next year. You just never know. We may go from having no QB's to having 2 very good QB's and we can leverage one of them into an extra 1st or 2nd round pick in the future like the Patriots did with Cassell.


March 19th, 2009, 12:17 pm
Profile
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pm
Posts: 2289
Post 
Pat white is a 3rd Round Pick.. 4th at worst. He will be long gone by the 6th round, even if he is just drafted as an Athlete/KR and Potential Slot Receiver with QB aspirations.

Personally I think he has the It Factor, and he has more drive than 90% of the players that make it to the Pros. Somebody is going to pick him up in the 3rd or 4th and whether he is a KR/PR , a WR or a QB , they will be getting a great deal for their team.


March 19th, 2009, 4:53 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9954
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
Back on topic.....

My ideal Lions draft:
#1 LB Aaron Curry
He moves inside flawlessly and starts from the first day of training camp. Solidifies the linebacking group and makes Ernie Sims a better player because Ernie won't feel the need to make a play on every snap but can instead prowl his own territory without worrying about the others.

#20-TE Brandon Pettigrew
I know many may not like this idea, but Pettigrew is a very good blocker and can catch the ball when needed to. That is something the Lions haven't had in a while. Dan Campbell was that, but he was addicted to the training table. If we can't land a top OT to strengthen the running game, then this is the next best thing.

#33 DT Evander Hood
He may not be the biggest, but he reminds me of Darnell Dockett. He has the ability to stop the run AND collapse the pocket. I see Ron Brace as a one dimensional player. Hood will be disruptive in man on man situations and could command double teams inside. With Jackson and Hood, how are opposing team going to run between the tackles?

#65 CB Keenan Lewis
Despite their CB signings, the Lions still need some youth at CB and somebody who represents a possible future starter. Lewis has good size and played very well againt top receivers in the Pac 10.

#82 OT Gerald Cadogan
Helped anchor Penn States line and is a very good athlete. Has the feet and mentality to play LT in the pros, but may need some development time to gain strength and techniques. He would represent good value and would allow the Lions to eventually move Backus inside or be rid of him altogether.

#161 QB Tom Brandstater
Has prototype height at 6'5" tall. If Drew Stanton is officially a bust in the eyes of this coaching staff, then the Lions need to move him and find a more suitable replacement. Brandstater has a pretty good arm and could develop into a very suitable backup QB in the NFL.

#179 CB Joe Burnett
Burnett could be used as the fourth or fifth corner, depending on how many DBs the Lions keep, as well as represent an upgrade for kick returning duties.

My nightmare Lions draft:

1. QB Matt Stafford - sorry, all I see is "BUST"
20. DE Michael Johnson - supreme athletic talent with no ambition
33. LB Clay Matthews - could be a steal, but then again may not be
65. OT Jamon Meredith - I don't like anything Steve Spurrier creates
82. TE Travis Beckum - Leave it to the Lions to draft an undersized TE
161. DT Sammie Lee Hill - small school prospect could be sleeper...or not
179. WR Sammy Stroughter - too many injuries, not a need

By comparison, on DRAFTEK, their most recent simulation shows:
1. LB Aaron Curry
20. OT Eben Britton
33. QB Josh Freeman
65. DT Dorell Scott
82. TE Shawn Nelson
161. LB Frantz Joseph
179. DE Ian Campbell


March 20th, 2009, 3:33 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9954
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
mwill2 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Somewhere along the line you have to show dedication to a TEAM, and not your own ambitions. Pat White may have shown well in his QB workouts.....but they are workouts, not the real deal. There have been others who changed positions for the sake of their team, and ultimately did themselves a favor by making that change of position. NFL teams are NOT interested in what Pat White wants, they are interested in what he can do where they think he should be playing, and if he is willing to make that change for the sake of the team.

Pat White bad a very questionable business decision in NOT showing NFL scouts and coaches his ability to work as a receiver. He definitely hurt his draft stock considerably.


It is WAY too early to make the "for the sake of the team" argument. Pat White doesn't HAVE a team! No one has asked him to switch positions. He has stated several times that if his team asks him to play WR, he will make the switch. Until that happens, he views himself as a QB.


You are missing my point. If teams ask him to run some routes to see how he would do and he refuses, what is the likelihood of his being willing to make a switch once he is selected if he doesn't pan out as a QB in the NFL? He should have been willing to do other work besides the QB workout. That's my point. I don't know that any team said "We aren't interested in seeing you work out as a QB, we only want to see you run routes." I think they wanted to see him work out at both spots. That's what they've done in the past with college QBs who may have to make a position change.

mwill2 wrote:
By refusing to run routes, he is marketing himself ONLY to the teams that view him as a QB. Anyone who wants him as a "WR only" will be taking a risk in the draft since they've not seen him run routes. Thus, he is reducing the number of teams that might be interested in him but increasing his odds of playing QB. White is taking a personal risk by employing this strategy, but if it backfires, he's the one that will suffer the consequences--not a team.


Which is EXACTLY why I said he made a POOR business decision by not running routes. While he may be increasing his odds of playing QB, he is decreasing his market value as an NFL player. Basically, he's losing possibly losing money. If he would have run routes and impressed some folks, he may have been able to move up in the draft due to his versatility.


March 20th, 2009, 3:46 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2815
Post 
Quote:
Back on topic.....

My ideal Lions draft:
#1 LB Aaron Curry
He moves inside flawlessly and starts from the first day of training camp. Solidifies the linebacking group and makes Ernie Sims a better player because Ernie won't feel the need to make a play on every snap but can instead prowl his own territory without worrying about the others.

#20-TE Brandon Pettigrew
I know many may not like this idea, but Pettigrew is a very good blocker and can catch the ball when needed to. That is something the Lions haven't had in a while. Dan Campbell was that, but he was addicted to the training table. If we can't land a top OT to strengthen the running game, then this is the next best thing.

#33 DT Evander Hood
He may not be the biggest, but he reminds me of Darnell Dockett. He has the ability to stop the run AND collapse the pocket. I see Ron Brace as a one dimensional player. Hood will be disruptive in man on man situations and could command double teams inside. With Jackson and Hood, how are opposing team going to run between the tackles?

#65 CB Keenan Lewis
Despite their CB signings, the Lions still need some youth at CB and somebody who represents a possible future starter. Lewis has good size and played very well againt top receivers in the Pac 10.

#82 OT Gerald Cadogan
Helped anchor Penn States line and is a very good athlete. Has the feet and mentality to play LT in the pros, but may need some development time to gain strength and techniques. He would represent good value and would allow the Lions to eventually move Backus inside or be rid of him altogether.

#161 QB Tom Brandstater
Has prototype height at 6'5" tall. If Drew Stanton is officially a bust in the eyes of this coaching staff, then the Lions need to move him and find a more suitable replacement. Brandstater has a pretty good arm and could develop into a very suitable backup QB in the NFL.

#179 CB Joe Burnett
Burnett could be used as the fourth or fifth corner, depending on how many DBs the Lions keep, as well as represent an upgrade for kick returning duties.


I like it. I might be tempted to go with Pat White at 65, and pick best CB available at the 161 slot. Otherwise, I wouldn't be unhappy with that draft at all. I think PW and 161,179 could give us options in the return game as well as develop in the system.


March 20th, 2009, 3:48 pm
Profile
5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pm
Posts: 1073
Location: Wolverine, Mi.
Post 
1- Curry

20- Percy Harvin

33- Trade back for later 2nd and a late 3rd

Late 2nd aquired in trade- Jared Cook TE

65- Darcel McBath S

82- Jaron Gilbert DT/DE or Lawrence Sidbury DE

Late 3rd aquired in trade- T. J. Lang OG

160- Sammie Lee Hill DT

179- Andrew Gardner OT

The pick of Harvin at 20 fills a lot of needs, 3rd RB, 3rd WR/slot, KR/PR. I felt he was the most dynamic player on the field at the BCS championship game.


March 21st, 2009, 10:36 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9954
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
liontrax wrote:
1- Curry

20- Percy Harvin

33- Trade back for later 2nd and a late 3rd

Late 2nd aquired in trade- Jared Cook TE

65- Darcel McBath S

82- Jaron Gilbert DT/DE or Lawrence Sidbury DE

Late 3rd aquired in trade- T. J. Lang OG

160- Sammie Lee Hill DT

179- Andrew Gardner OT

The pick of Harvin at 20 fills a lot of needs, 3rd RB, 3rd WR/slot, KR/PR. I felt he was the most dynamic player on the field at the BCS championship game.


No offense, but do your really think the need for a 3rd WR/3rd RB trumps the need for O-line or D-line help?


March 21st, 2009, 10:45 am
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 am
Posts: 2323
Post 
Since this is the ideal draft section I'll speculate a trade and give two scenarios:

Trade #1 to Cincy for #6 and #38


Version #1

#6 Matt Stafford QB or Mark Sanchez QB - Depending on which player is still available they have good value at this spot and have the potential to fill a huge void. At least one of them if not both could or should still be there.


#20 William Beatty LT- He can come in and either take over for Backus at LT this year or be plugged in at LG. Then move to LT next season after a year of NFL OL and strength training.


#33 Evander Hood DT- A slightly lesser version of Tommy Harris but a more consistant version of Cory Redding in his contract season.


#38 Darius Butler CB- Butler comes in and likely takes the KR/PR job while competing for a CB position. He also offers an option at WR if needed.

#65 Shawn Nelson TE- Finally a potential threat at the TE position opening things up for the WRs and RBs in the passing game.


#82 Lawrence Sidbury DE- A boom or bust player but at this point he should at least hold value as a situational pass rusher if he doesn't develop into a starter.


#161 Frantz Jospeh MLB- A Ray Lewis attitude at the MLB position and plays similar to Zach Thomas. He is a film room junky that gets into the right position because of that study time. Not an elite athlete but a top notch football player because he loves the game and what it takes to be great.


#179 Sammie Lee Hill DT- A developmental player that if the coaches can make everything click can be a powerful force in the middleof a D-line. The light might never come on but the reward outweighs the risk this late in the draft.


Version #2

#6 BJ Raji- Not a fan at #1 with the baggage he carries and I have questions about him becoming Shaun Rogers v2.0. But at #6 he has a nice combination of strength and quickness at the DT spot.


#20 Larry English DE- He's likely gone at this point but when I see him I think John Abraham. They both are smaller than average but put together better than a lot of guys that are bigger than them. He can get in the backfield as well as stack the line against the run.


#33 Darius Butler- Butler comes in and likely takes the KR/PR job while competing for a CB position. He also offers an option at WR if needed.


#38 Duke Robinson- Would of went with Beatty at #33 but feel he won't last that long and instead get a LG to help Backus protect the QBs blindside.


#65 Shawn Nelson TE- Finally a potential threat at the TE position opening things up for the WRs and RBs in the passing game.


#82 Asher Allen CB- Plays the CB position with the mentality that Schhwartz looked for when he was the Titans DC. Adds even more depth and youth to a position in need of a lot of help.


#161 Frantz Jospeh MLB- A Ray Lewis attitude at the MLB position and plays similar to Zach Thomas. He is a film room junky that gets into the right position because of that study time. Not an elite athlete but a top notch football player because he loves the game and what it takes to be great.


#179 Stephen McGee or Curtis Painter- One or both could/should still be available. Both have the potential to be NFL starters and at least should develop into reliable backups.


March 21st, 2009, 12:22 pm
Profile
Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
mwill2 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Somewhere along the line you have to show dedication to a TEAM, and not your own ambitions. Pat White may have shown well in his QB workouts.....but they are workouts, not the real deal. There have been others who changed positions for the sake of their team, and ultimately did themselves a favor by making that change of position. NFL teams are NOT interested in what Pat White wants, they are interested in what he can do where they think he should be playing, and if he is willing to make that change for the sake of the team.

Pat White bad a very questionable business decision in NOT showing NFL scouts and coaches his ability to work as a receiver. He definitely hurt his draft stock considerably.


It is WAY too early to make the "for the sake of the team" argument. Pat White doesn't HAVE a team! No one has asked him to switch positions. He has stated several times that if his team asks him to play WR, he will make the switch. Until that happens, he views himself as a QB.


You are missing my point. If teams ask him to run some routes to see how he would do and he refuses, what is the likelihood of his being willing to make a switch once he is selected if he doesn't pan out as a QB in the NFL? He should have been willing to do other work besides the QB workout. That's my point. I don't know that any team said "We aren't interested in seeing you work out as a QB, we only want to see you run routes." I think they wanted to see him work out at both spots. That's what they've done in the past with college QBs who may have to make a position change.

mwill2 wrote:
By refusing to run routes, he is marketing himself ONLY to the teams that view him as a QB. Anyone who wants him as a "WR only" will be taking a risk in the draft since they've not seen him run routes. Thus, he is reducing the number of teams that might be interested in him but increasing his odds of playing QB. White is taking a personal risk by employing this strategy, but if it backfires, he's the one that will suffer the consequences--not a team.


Which is EXACTLY why I said he made a POOR business decision by not running routes. While he may be increasing his odds of playing QB, he is decreasing his market value as an NFL player. Basically, he's losing possibly losing money. If he would have run routes and impressed some folks, he may have been able to move up in the draft due to his versatility.


I agree that it could have been a poor business decision in terms of draft status. You were criticizing him for not being a good teammate, a premise I find absurd.

All of this is now moot though--several teams, including the Broncos and Patriots, have brought White into their facilities to work out as a WR. And he did it. Thus, he isn't refusing to run routes at all.


March 21st, 2009, 12:28 pm
Profile
National Champion
User avatar

Joined: April 12th, 2005, 12:35 am
Posts: 881
Location: Boston, MA
Post 
sweetd20 wrote:
Since this is the ideal draft section I'll speculate a trade and give two scenarios:

Trade #1 to Cincy for #6 and #38


Version #1

#6 Matt Stafford QB or Mark Sanchez QB - Depending on which player is still available they have good value at this spot and have the potential to fill a huge void. At least one of them if not both could or should still be there.


#20 William Beatty LT- He can come in and either take over for Backus at LT this year or be plugged in at LG. Then move to LT next season after a year of NFL OL and strength training.


#33 Evander Hood DT- A slightly lesser version of Tommy Harris but a more consistant version of Cory Redding in his contract season.


#38 Darius Butler CB- Butler comes in and likely takes the KR/PR job while competing for a CB position. He also offers an option at WR if needed.

#65 Shawn Nelson TE- Finally a potential threat at the TE position opening things up for the WRs and RBs in the passing game.


#82 Lawrence Sidbury DE- A boom or bust player but at this point he should at least hold value as a situational pass rusher if he doesn't develop into a starter.


#161 Frantz Jospeh MLB- A Ray Lewis attitude at the MLB position and plays similar to Zach Thomas. He is a film room junky that gets into the right position because of that study time. Not an elite athlete but a top notch football player because he loves the game and what it takes to be great.


#179 Sammie Lee Hill DT- A developmental player that if the coaches can make everything click can be a powerful force in the middleof a D-line. The light might never come on but the reward outweighs the risk this late in the draft.


Version #2

#6 BJ Raji- Not a fan at #1 with the baggage he carries and I have questions about him becoming Shaun Rogers v2.0. But at #6 he has a nice combination of strength and quickness at the DT spot.


#20 Larry English DE- He's likely gone at this point but when I see him I think John Abraham. They both are smaller than average but put together better than a lot of guys that are bigger than them. He can get in the backfield as well as stack the line against the run.


#33 Darius Butler- Butler comes in and likely takes the KR/PR job while competing for a CB position. He also offers an option at WR if needed.


#38 Duke Robinson- Would of went with Beatty at #33 but feel he won't last that long and instead get a LG to help Backus protect the QBs blindside.


#65 Shawn Nelson TE- Finally a potential threat at the TE position opening things up for the WRs and RBs in the passing game.


#82 Asher Allen CB- Plays the CB position with the mentality that Schhwartz looked for when he was the Titans DC. Adds even more depth and youth to a position in need of a lot of help.


#161 Frantz Jospeh MLB- A Ray Lewis attitude at the MLB position and plays similar to Zach Thomas. He is a film room junky that gets into the right position because of that study time. Not an elite athlete but a top notch football player because he loves the game and what it takes to be great.


#179 Stephen McGee or Curtis Painter- One or both could/should still be available. Both have the potential to be NFL starters and at least should develop into reliable backups.


I highly doubt that Cincinnati is that eager to find a replacement for Carson Palmer.

_________________
Alphonso Smith for Dan Gronkowski? Epic fail, McDaniels.


March 21st, 2009, 2:48 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 135 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.