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RIP Killer
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TNLionsFanatic wrote:
I think you have to look at the FO has done so far with their picks. They have not taken just the BPA per say, but rather they have looked at both the BPA overall as well as BPA at position. Based on this they could take Darry Beckwith @ 65. DJ Moore might be the highest rated player left, but he is also ranked 5th or 6th in terms of Corner Backs.

The other position I would expect them to look at is OG. Duke Robinson is the top rated OG by most accounts and he is sitting there at 65 as well.

Personally I expect to see them draft the following based on what they have done so far:

3a. Duke Robinson OG
3b. Darry Beckwith ILB (If available)


And what's so great about Beckwith? He's another 2 down MIKE. He's terrible in coverage. Not to mention, dood's always playing on one wheel. He's always had the benefit of playing behind a pretty solid DL, but he would be a solid 2 down LB - a lot like the Hitman Holmes...but quicker and with better instincts.

Beckwith would be a HUGE liability in the middle if they plan on sending Peterson on the blitz very often.

Robinson would be a reach with our first third. Though, he does fit a pretty big need, as I've hated almost every guard we've had since...umm...Hartings. We're going to need some big maulers if we're playing Raji, Harris, and the Williams X2 twice a year. HOWEVER...Linehan said he's sticking with the zone blocking scheme. Exactly how does Robinson fit into a ZBS? He sure as hell doesn't move well laterally...

I would much prefer someone like Cornelius Lewis...but again, not a great blocker on the run, but damn that guy has a deadly punch and he can sure handle the bull rush. He blocks downfield better than expected for his size.

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April 25th, 2009, 11:43 pm
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I have to go with Duke Robinson over DJ Moore in both value and potential impact. I doubt Moore beats out Buchanon, Smith, or Henry. As a 4th or lower CB, he will have negligible impact for us.

Duke represents a perfect fit as a power blocking guard. He is a potential starter and impact player in year one. He is widely held as the best player at his position, despite Levitre being taken above him.

Let's keep the string alive with 4 consecutive selections that represent the best player at their position.

A dark horse for me is Jarron Gilbert at DT. He had a mammoth senior year with 52 tackles, 22 tackles for loss, and 9.5 sacks. Those are way better than 3rd round quality numbers. Unfortunately, Gilbert is a UT, with similar size to Cohen, Fluellen, and Darby. What we really need is a NT.

If it were truly BPA, I look at Gilbert and Robinson. When you account for need and BPA, it looks more like Duke wins.

-ILMP


April 25th, 2009, 11:44 pm
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Here's my Board up to this point. Obviously, Ignore the TE's.

DJ Moore CB Vanderbilt Guy is a gamer. Surprised he fell this far.
Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech - The highlight videos make him look like Julian Peterson, problem is the consistency, he is way more talented than KE.
Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State - Not tiny at all. At DE he's prototypically sized on the strong side.
Jamon Meredith LT South Carolina - Athletic Tackle needs to be coached up
Jared Cook TE South Carolina
Rashad Jennings RB Liberty
Shawn Nelson TE Southern Miss
Duke Robinson LG Oklahoma - Top guard still available
Chip Vaughn SS Wake Forrest
Marcus Freeman OLB Ohio State
Louis Murphy WR Florida
Gerald Cadogan LT Penn State - Technician
Gerald McRath MLB Southern Miss - Super athletic middle
Mike Thomas WR Arizona - super slot
Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma
Kevin Barnes CB Maryland - Hardest hitting corner in the draft

Lower on my board, but popular picks.
Dorell Scott DT Clemson
Kraig Urbik RG Wisconsin
Keenan Lewis CB Oregon State
Macho Harris CB VTech
Coye Francies CB San Jose State
Scott McKillop MLB Pittsburgh
Fenuki Tupou LT Oregon
Herman Johnson LG LSU
Kyle Moore DE USC

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April 25th, 2009, 11:48 pm
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Gilbert is small. Cohen and Fluellen are still on the team because we have absolutely NOBODY else.

Here's the negatives on Gilbert:
Negatives: Struggles with leverage inside, and might lack the burst off the snap and flexibility to flank the tackle and close effectively as a defensive end. Too often allows blockers to get into his chest. Inconsistent getting his hands up in the passing lanes. Questionable level of competition. Better raw athlete than football player.

Not exactly what I look for in a 'run stuffing DT' as Schwartz has demanded over and over.



Cornelius Lewis is a better prospect than Robinson IMO. He'd get more love, but he's from a small school.

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April 25th, 2009, 11:49 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
TNLionsFanatic wrote:
I think you have to look at the FO has done so far with their picks. They have not taken just the BPA per say, but rather they have looked at both the BPA overall as well as BPA at position. Based on this they could take Darry Beckwith @ 65. DJ Moore might be the highest rated player left, but he is also ranked 5th or 6th in terms of Corner Backs.

The other position I would expect them to look at is OG. Duke Robinson is the top rated OG by most accounts and he is sitting there at 65 as well.

Personally I expect to see them draft the following based on what they have done so far:

3a. Duke Robinson OG
3b. Darry Beckwith ILB (If available)


And what's so great about Beckwith? He's another 2 down MIKE. He's terrible in coverage. Not to mention, dood's always playing on one wheel. He's always had the benefit of playing behind a pretty solid DL, but he would be a solid 2 down LB - a lot like the Hitman Holmes...but quicker and with better instincts.

Beckwith would be a HUGE liability in the middle if they plan on sending Peterson on the blitz very often.

Robinson would be a reach with our first third. Though, he does fit a pretty big need, as I've hated almost every guard we've had since...umm...Hartings. We're going to need some big maulers if we're playing Raji, Harris, and the Williams X2 twice a year. HOWEVER...Linehan said he's sticking with the zone blocking scheme. Exactly how does Robinson fit into a ZBS? He sure as hell doesn't move well laterally...

I would much prefer someone like Cornelius Lewis...but again, not a great blocker on the run, but damn that guy has a deadly punch and he can sure handle the bull rush. He blocks downfield better than expected for his size.


Beckwith has some decent coverage skills, but your right about the injury bug. Let me say right now, I'm not lobbing for him. Actually I don't know that he would be the BPA at that pick anyways. For what ever the reason it's hard to not want to lean towards "needs" when trying to predict picks.

I'm on the record for the Robinson pick, not sure on the 3b pick yet.

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April 25th, 2009, 11:50 pm
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BillySims wrote:
Can Brinkley lay the wood to people?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bipvpIfN ... re=related - Just because its Tebow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQsy4gU40Ss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvKoyNvzg1k - Compilation.

He is big, which would fit what Schwartz wants.


April 25th, 2009, 11:53 pm
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Here's his positives

Quote:
Positives: Rare athleticism for a player of his size. Versatile defender with experience at tackle and end. Good size potential. Naturally large man with room for plenty of additional muscle mass. Good initial quickness off the snap. Flashes the functional upper-body strength to disengage from blockers. Surprising balance for his height. Can break down in space and make the secure tackle.


I doubt Gilbert would play DT for us. He's perfect to hold the edge for us as a DE. If they really want to move him to DT, he has a lot of room to grow. Not sure we can say that about Cohen and Fluellen.

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April 25th, 2009, 11:55 pm
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I don't know if Duke Robinson is our 3a pick. He's not the BPA (Of course who knows what the Lions board looks like). Plus there may be more value in some tackles and centers with the versatility to play guard who are still available.

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April 26th, 2009, 12:03 am
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njroar wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Can Brinkley lay the wood to people?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bipvpIfN ... re=related - Just because its Tebow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQsy4gU40Ss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvKoyNvzg1k - Compilation.

He is big, which would fit what Schwartz wants.


The last highlight on the bottom link. Jasper picked off a deflected Stafford Pass.


April 26th, 2009, 12:04 am
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Honolulu_Blue wrote:
Here's his positives

Quote:
Positives: Rare athleticism for a player of his size. Versatile defender with experience at tackle and end. Good size potential. Naturally large man with room for plenty of additional muscle mass. Good initial quickness off the snap. Flashes the functional upper-body strength to disengage from blockers. Surprising balance for his height. Can break down in space and make the secure tackle.


I doubt Gilbert would play DT for us. He's perfect to hold the edge for us as a DE. If they really want to move him to DT, he has a lot of room to grow. Not sure we can say that about Cohen and Fluellen.


Fluellen is 6'2 296 and can add 15 lbs of mass. Cohen's 6'3 295 and can add some mass. They both have pretty big frames. Neither will ever be anything more than a UT. Fluellen is the best possibility to add mass and be the bigger UT we want - he's shorter and thicker.

I agree with Gilbert, I think he'd play DE here. I don't see a whole lot of improvement over someone like DeVries though. I'd rather have the best MIKE or RG available over Gilbert in a heartbeat.

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April 26th, 2009, 12:05 am
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Gilbert reminds me of IAF.

His best Position for us is as a DE, but he can add mass and play UT or DE in a 3-4 Formation as well. I Like the versatility, but hes not the 330lb Hog we are looking for at DT (Like Ron brace).

Essentiallyw e want the flexibility of lining up in a 3-4 but right now 36yo Grady Jackson is the only person who might be able to hold their own at NT.


April 26th, 2009, 12:23 am
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conversion02 wrote:
Honolulu_Blue wrote:
Here's his positives

Quote:
Positives: Rare athleticism for a player of his size. Versatile defender with experience at tackle and end. Good size potential. Naturally large man with room for plenty of additional muscle mass. Good initial quickness off the snap. Flashes the functional upper-body strength to disengage from blockers. Surprising balance for his height. Can break down in space and make the secure tackle.


I doubt Gilbert would play DT for us. He's perfect to hold the edge for us as a DE. If they really want to move him to DT, he has a lot of room to grow. Not sure we can say that about Cohen and Fluellen.


Fluellen is 6'2 296 and can add 15 lbs of mass. Cohen's 6'3 295 and can add some mass. They both have pretty big frames. Neither will ever be anything more than a UT. Fluellen is the best possibility to add mass and be the bigger UT we want - he's shorter and thicker.

I agree with Gilbert, I think he'd play DE here. I don't see a whole lot of improvement over someone like DeVries though. I'd rather have the best MIKE or RG available over Gilbert in a heartbeat.


I think that's the key if any of them would be moved to DT. Fluellen and Cohen are closer to maxed out. But Gilbert is pretty sveldt for his size. He could probably add a lot more weight than our incumbents without completely transforming his body type. But I think he's perfect for a Strong Side DE in Schwarz' defense. I'd have know problems to get him to eventually replace Devries. He's pretty old already.

As far as targeting a Mike or RG or any position for that matter, I don't think that's the way to approach this, if we're guessing what we'll take. The FO are clearly taking guys who they think are the best available. So if we're prognosticating, we have to figure out whose the top remaining prospect is.

I guess for me it's

1. DJ Moore
2. Michael Johnson
3. Jarron Gilbert
4. Jamon Meredith

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April 26th, 2009, 12:24 am
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I really like Duke Robinson.....I think he is the BPA at this point.

Can D.J. Moore return kicks at the NFL level? If he can, that should be a strong consideration. He can learn CB for a year while still contributing (assuming he doesn't outright win a job).

For 3B not sure. Maybe Brinkley.


April 26th, 2009, 1:07 am
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I would love to start Gilbert at DE on first and second down and then move him inside to DT on third. Remember, thats how Schwartz said he would have used Redding.

Avril-Fluellen-Gilbert-White should be able to bring som pressure.


April 26th, 2009, 4:26 am
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DJ Moore can do it all. The guy lined up all over the field. So while that versatility was valuable for me (I targeted him late 1st to 2nd round), that could've been a detriment in the eyes of teams.

Quote:
Moore is perhaps the most versatile athlete to ever wear a Commodores uniform. During his three seasons at Vanderbilt, he has lined up at cornerback, wide receiver, tailback, slot back, punt returner and kickoff returner, in addition to taking direct snaps as a quarterback, accomplishing all of that in both his sophomore and junior seasons. Do not consider him a jack-of-all-trades though, as he is a team-first player but loves the physical contact he can generate on the defensive side of the ball.

"He does it all,'' Vanderbilt head coach Bobby Johnson said about Moore. "If he were a wide receiver by trade, he would be a fantastic one. He's a kick returner. He almost had an interception one time and their guy made a great play on it. He is physical, came up and made some great tackles. He's a top-notch player.''

Moore says he is just eager to help out any way he can. All the Vanderbilt coaching staff needs to do is ask. "I do what they ask me to do,'' Moore said of his different roles. "If they asked me to do anything, I'll do it because I'm part of the team. If they ask me to do it, I try to do it.''


Maybe it's his slow 40. (4.56) Maybe since he was viewed as not having a clear position teams shied away from him. But I looked at him as a pure cornerback and I thought he was better than some of the guys taken ahead of him. He did have excellent stats as a cover guy.

2006 1 int, 2 PBU
2007 6 int, 10 PBU, 1 Sack, 2 TFL's
2008 6 int, 7 PBU, 1 Sack, 4.5 TFL's

13 int and 19 PBU's is a pretty good career.

Compare that with others taken ahead of him.
Malcolm Jenkins 11 int/ 18 PBU
Darius Butler 10 INT/ 26 PBU
Vontae Davis 7 INT/22 PBU
Alphonso Smith 20 INT/13 PBU
Sean Smith 9 INT/16 PBU

Only Smith had more int's, and Smith played 4 years to Moore's 3. Jairus Byrd had outrageous stats with 17 int's/53 PBU in the pass happy PAC10.

So I thought Moore was a solid cornerback. On top of that you could make return kicks and punts. Something we needed anyway. And he could be a scat back. And he could be a slot receiver. And he could be the wild cat trigger man. All bonuses IMO.

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April 26th, 2009, 4:41 am
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