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 2010 draft 
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slybri19 wrote:
At this point, it looks like the Lions will have the 2nd overall pick. If the Rams select a QB, then Suh has to be the pick IMO.


I think if Eric Berry declares, he will be the Lions pick over Ndamukong Suh.

The problem with the Lion's run defense hasn't been the defensive tackles. The biggest problems have been the lack of containment by the corners and poor tackling by the back seven. Suh wouldn't help there, while Berry would help cut down on the big plays.

Does Suh help out our pass defense? Maybe. Problem is that he is mostly dominating against underclassmen and/or players that will never be starters in the pro's. Will he still make a big impact once he's playing against bigger, stronger players with better technique? I'm not so sure. Unlike some others on this board, I don't see him as a once in a lifetime player. I think he's only slightly better than Gerald McCoy, BJ Raji, and Haloti Ngata... and a notch or two below Big Baby and Fat Albert. He could be the next Kevin Williams... or he could be the next Cory Redding.

Berry? Speed , instincts, and ball skills are, well, speed, instincts, and ball skills. He could be the next Ed Reed.... or the next Louis Delmas.

Over all, I think the Lions will view Berry as a safer pick than Suh with just as much potential to be a game changer.


December 26th, 2009, 7:03 pm
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Welcome Lurker!

I'm going to have to disagree. My opinion is that on D no other player can be more effective in every aspect of the game than DT. Berry's is a great player, but I don't think he can impact like Suh.

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December 26th, 2009, 7:14 pm
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If the Lions blow off Suh, I will become a Vikings fan! :evil:


December 26th, 2009, 9:16 pm
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steensn wrote:
I'm going to have to disagree. My opinion is that on D no other player can be more effective in every aspect of the game than DT. Berry's is a great player, but I don't think he can impact like Suh.


If we had a good or even decent defense, I might agree with you. Unfortunately our defense blows in just about every way possible. Other teams will be able to run away from Suh because we can't stop the outside run. Difference maker in the passing game? Only if our corners could cover for more than half a second. For Suh to have a major impact, he will have to live up to the hype AND the DEs and CBs have to be upgraded. Of course, by the time that happens, we'll most likely have to find two new LBs.

For Berry to make an impact, he just needs to live up to expectations. His job is to come up and stop the run and make plays on the ball in the air.... exactly what everyone in our secondary, except Delmas, can't do. (I like Ko Simpson at safety, but after 2 season ending injuries in four years....)

Don't get me wrong, I won't be complaining if the Lions do select Suh at #2, but I think Berry will be the pick. As far as that goes, my preference would be for the Lions to trade down and select Berry, Derrick Morgan, or Joe Haden.


December 26th, 2009, 10:06 pm
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Were pretty much in the same boat then. I think we should trade back to nab more guys to plug holes. You are dead on, we have tons of holes to fill on D. But if we stay at 2, no way can we not take bpa.

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December 27th, 2009, 12:57 am
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steensn wrote:
But if we stay at 2, no way can we not take bpa.


I think we have different theories on the Lions draft strategy. Look at the last draft class. All of our picks had the potential to contribute immediately to some area of weakness while developing into all around contributors. (Yes, everything was an area of weakness.) Granted, it didn't work out so well with Williams and Brown as return men, but that doesn't change the intent. For example, we drafted Pettigrew because he could contribute immediately as a pass blocker while developing into a receiving threat. We didn't draft Oher because we all ready have a young right tackle in Cherlius and didn't view Oher as being able to immediately displace Backus at left tackle (why I'll never know).

My theory is in part based on the assumption that the Lions realize that we can't significantly improve any of our deficiencies through free agency – until we start winning. Good free agents want nothing to do with us until we improve. Since we have no one worth trading, the only way we improve outside of the draft is free agency. Catch 22. All we can sign are aging vets hanging on to starting spots (e.g. Foote, Buchanon, and James) and back ups looking for more playing time (e.g. King and Hunter). Therefore, all of our draft picks have to immediately offer a significant improvement to some aspect of the team.

(Please, correct me if you disagree on this point.) A large part of the value of a dominant DT is their ability to make the rest of the DL better. Unfortunately, the rest of our DL includes the likes of White and Hunter. How much better can Suh make any of them? Some, IF he can consistently beat a double team and collapse the pocket. Enough to make an immediate major impact in the passing game? Doubt it, unless the Draft Gods are kind and let a stud CB or DE fall to us in the second. Since there is no guarantee that will happen, Suh's immediate value is as an inside run stuffer – not one of our biggest weaknesses at the moment.

IF my theory is right, that makes Berry the bpa from the Lions point of view. He immediately addresses a major weakness regardless of who else we draft. That allows us to go with best available in the later rounds without having to reach for a player.


December 27th, 2009, 4:03 am
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I get the thought process, I just don't agree. I think that in the draft you take the best talent you can get with each pick regardless of need (to a certain extent). I think suh is a talent you can't pass up. Suh will make the DL better and yes he wouldn't have" much to work with." But, even if he can't fix the "studs" we have, he's the type of guy that can make whoever we do get better when we do have them, better than Berry. He's a talent that only comes around so often, Berry is a dime a dozen.

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December 27th, 2009, 11:40 am
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steensn wrote:
I get the thought process, I just don't agree. I think that in the draft you take the best talent you can get with each pick regardless of need (to a certain extent). I think suh is a talent you can't pass up. Suh will make the DL better and yes he wouldn't have" much to work with." But, even if he can't fix the "studs" we have, he's the type of guy that can make whoever we do get better when we do have them, better than Berry. He's a talent that only comes around so often, Berry is a dime a dozen.


I agree..

Sorry Lurker, but IMO, theres NO WAY theyll pass on Suh if they get a chance (assuming no trades). Berry is awesome too, and it would be nice to have him, but Suh is definetly what the Lions need.

Like someone mentioned before..until we fix this defensive line, the Lions will never be competitive.....Never. Who do we have on our D-line other than Hill (imo)(maybe White) that you think is really worth anything.

Its just so sad to see a game where its 3rd and 3, we need a BIG stop from the d-line, and they run for 12 yards up the middle.

The D-line is by far the most important part of a defense, and if we have a chance at getting a top notch player like Suh, you just cannot pass on him.

Theres only so much the secondary can do without a pass rush.

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December 27th, 2009, 2:56 pm
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If we can definitely get Suh I'll be ok with staying at #2. I really think StL has to get a QB but with Spags being a defensive coach maybe they end up taking Suh. I'd rather win a game or two and move a little farther down and make it easier to trade down. If we can get an extra second round pick somehow I'll be happy.

We're pretty solid at LB especially if we re-sign Foote. I agree with Sly about how our first few picks should go. Hopefully if we get Suh that will help Avril and whoever else we have at DE and improving the pass rush will help the coverage, but we still need 2 young starters at corner.


December 27th, 2009, 2:58 pm
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There's no way they pass on Suh if he's there at our pick. You were right on the money with the weaknesses at corner, but you don't draft a safety to play corner with the 2nd pick. And If you pick him to play safety, then you still ignore the weakness of the corners ability to contain and failed to add pressure up front in the middle.

And I still think Berry is the 2nd best safety in the draft. Mays is completely avoided by most offenses which tells me alot more about his skills, where Berry looked terrible in quite a few games and no one was afraid to go at him.

Suh should be the only option if there's no possible way to trade down and collect more picks. We need secondary help, but at the corners. And the only corners worth taking will end up in the late 2nd or 3rd round possibly 4th.

Best scenario is for us to trade back and get Morgan. DE is a very weak spot for us and an improved pass rush would allow a mediocre increase at CB to make a drastic difference on defense. If we stay with our current pass rush, we'd need to draft pro bowlers at CB which isn't happening this year. Suh would help close the pocket, so he's picked, he will help this defense in a big way. But DE is a bigger hole than DT in my opinion.


December 27th, 2009, 3:22 pm
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kdsberman wrote:
Like someone mentioned before..until we fix this defensive line, the Lions will never be competitive.....Never. Who do we have on our D-line other than Hill (imo)(maybe White) that you think is really worth anything.


A lot of people seem to think that Hill will be the NT with Suh becoming the penetrating DT. I disagree. I think they drafted Hill with the expectation that he will develop into the inside pass rusher. If they take a DT this year, it'll be a later round pick who can replace Jackson in two years. Do we need to fix the Dline, absolutely. But keep in mind, the staff as consistently said that they are happy with the play of our current DTs. Any improvement in our DL is going to come from the development of Hill and the drafting of a DE, if one falls to us. Who else is any good on our Dline? Maybe Avril if they can find a good DE to start opposite him.... maybe. White and DeVries, aging and coming off injuries. Nuff said. McBride and Hunter, back up DEs at best.

njroar wrote:
There's no way they pass on Suh if he's there at our pick. You were right on the money with the weaknesses at corner, but you don't draft a safety to play corner with the 2nd pick. And If you pick him to play safety, then you still ignore the weakness of the corners ability to contain and failed to add pressure up front in the middle.


I'm not suggesting that they draft Berry to play him at Corner. Pairing Berry with Delmas at Safety gives us a chance to take away the deep ball as well as two safety's that can limit the damage caused by our corners and linebackers missed tackles.

njroar wrote:
And I still think Berry is the 2nd best safety in the draft. Mays is completely avoided by most offenses which tells me alot more about his skills, where Berry looked terrible in quite a few games and no one was afraid to go at him.


Yes, Berry did have a few bad games, but Mays is way over rated IMO. He's a faster version of Roy Williams - suspect awareness in coverage with zero ball skills. I think Schwartz places a premium on interceptions and forced fumbles. Especially if that player happens to have the ability to turn a interception or fumble into 6 points.

njroar wrote:
Best scenario is for us to trade back and get Morgan. DE is a very weak spot for us and an improved pass rush would allow a mediocre increase at CB to make a drastic difference on defense. If we stay with our current pass rush, we'd need to draft pro bowlers at CB which isn't happening this year. Suh would help close the pocket, so he's picked, he will help this defense in a big way. But DE is a bigger hole than DT in my opinion.


Amen. Even if Suh is dominant from day 1, who exactly is keeping the quarterback in the pocket long enough for it to matter? Even if Suh ties up two blockers in the running game, who is forcing the running game inside? And who is making those tackles?


December 27th, 2009, 4:28 pm
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Lurker, Schwartz's/Mayhew's approach to the draft is definitely seems to be a BPA approach or at least a BPA at a position of need approach. We need another DT, and Suh is the best player in the draft. If we are stuck picking at #2 overall (can't trade out of it and nothing crazy happens), we're drafting Suh.


December 27th, 2009, 4:38 pm
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My opinion if the Lions stay at #2 they will simply draft the best available offensive or defensive lineman.

Which means they will be looking at Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Derrick Morgan or Russell Okung.

I really think unless the Lions can win a game and draft lower Berry and Haden are not really going to part of the discussions.

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December 27th, 2009, 4:51 pm
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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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December 27th, 2009, 5:10 pm
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I do agree Lurker, I think Mays is overrated.

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December 27th, 2009, 5:49 pm
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