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 MIKE WILLIAMS 
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u know after reading this post which must have been started in the begining of the season i have realized how stupid we all are, we get a good pick, in this case BMW, then everyone gets all excited (as did i) then whats next???? we flop out, all the time, what else is new. after seeing this pattern time and time again you would think we would be ready for it at least tone down the excitement a lil bit, but no way we always are frothing at the bit, hoping our lions will turn around and become a powerhouse in the NFL. from now on i shall only read "new" posts, that way i can save myself some dissapoinment.

PLEASE NOTE: this isnt a attempt to make fun of any lions fans, just me venting my frustration so i dont beat my wife :)

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December 14th, 2005, 4:13 pm
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lionmaster420 wrote:
u know after reading this post which must have been started in the begining of the season i have realized how stupid we all are, we get a good pick, in this case BMW, then everyone gets all excited (as did i) then whats next???? we flop out, all the time, what else is new. after seeing this pattern time and time again you would think we would be ready for it at least tone down the excitement a lil bit, but no way we always are frothing at the bit, hoping our lions will turn around and become a powerhouse in the NFL. from now on i shall only read "new" posts, that way i can save myself some dissapoinment.

PLEASE NOTE: this isnt a attempt to make fun of any lions fans, just me venting my frustration so i dont beat my wife :)


I never wanted him and don't think he was a good pick... A good player? Perhaps... a good pick, not a chance. We had too many other needs that could have/should have been drafted before him. Alex Barron is now starting with St. Louis, to have him starting at RT and waiting in the wings to start at LT when and if Backus leaves would be huge. Kalimba had a good year, to have a top notch draft DE like Pollack (whom I realize hasn't produced much, but IMO is still a great player, class act, and positive contributer to the Bengals organization) starting in place of Kalimba would have sidelined him for at least a portion of the season, reducing his stats, and reducing the $$ it would take to re-sign him... it was also reduce the need to re-sign him. We went into the draft needing an every down DE to play opposite of James Hall. We went into the draft knowing that this was Kalimba's last year on his contract, yet we chose to draft a DT in round two!??? You've got to be kidding me. Again, good player, bad pick. I like Shaun Cody, would have preferred a DE, FS, or OG. Tuck, Roth, or an OG would have been a better pick that addressed a need... Same to be said for the entire damn draft... CB in round 3?.... you get the point... Dan Buenning was my pick... he's starting for TB right now and playing awesome... what has Stanley Wilson done this year? hmmmmm


December 14th, 2005, 5:15 pm
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I said it from day one the Mike Williams pick was a piss poor pick, a emotion pick, and style over substance pick by Millen.

All of last years draft left a bad taste in my mouth, Mike Williams was a poor pick, Shuan Cody was a reach who we left alot of great talent on the board for, Stanley Wilson was a luxery project pick when the Lions had pressing needs.

So after the draft the lions were still left with holes on OL (LG, and OT), FS, and didnt upgrade anyone on defense.

I remember the draft discussions last year and a number of us pointing out Dan Buenning as a guy the Lions needed, i was high on Dan Buenning in the 2nd round but would have taken Elton Brown also, but Millen didnt even address the OL at all, after 5 years of poor OL Millen is still not addressing the problem.


December 14th, 2005, 10:57 pm
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I was never thrilled with the BMW pick either when we made it mostly because I also thought that there where other needs to address.

Now in hindsight I understand why Millen made that pick - in anticipation of the problems with Charles Rogers. He knew this was coming.

As it turns out, BMW is not taking his role very seriously either and that just compounds the problem and makes that pick an even worse selection. Furthermore, it just gives Millen bashers more to complain about.

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December 15th, 2005, 8:41 am
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LionFan57 wrote:
I was never thrilled with the BMW pick either when we made it mostly because I also thought that there where other needs to address.

Now in hindsight I understand why Millen made that pick - in anticipation of the problems with Charles Rogers. He knew this was coming.

As it turns out, BMW is not taking his role very seriously either and that just compounds the problem and makes that pick an even worse selection. Furthermore, it just gives Millen bashers more to complain about.


Let me jump on this bandwagon. First thoughts after the BMW pick were how awesome the receiving corps would be. The thoughts were that Rogers would be healthy, Roy would recover from his ankle surgery and play as well as he did early in 2004, and BMW would be an uncoverable slot receiver and a great red zone target.

Like LF57, I now see why Millen made that pick, but I don't agree with it. The depth in the 2005 receiver class was such that we could have garnered a fine second receiver in rounds three or four. I was in favor of the Lions taking Shawne Merriman or Jamaal Brown in round one.

I jumped all over the trade up in round two. I like Shaun Cody, but don't think he was worth a second and fourth rounder. Odell Thurman would have been the better round two pick, IMHO. He is proving me right.

In round three, I was praying for Justin Tucks name to be called. The Stanley Wilson pick was one of the worst in the Millen era, IMO. He didn't fill a need, had barely any chance of contributing, and the Lions had plenty of other needs to fill. If Merriman had been the first round pick, then Buenning, WR Chris Henry, DT Sione Pouha or TE Kevin Everett would have been much better picks.

Had we maintained our fourth round pick, we could have taken the player that Tennessee took with the pick we gave them, Vincent Fuller. Fuller could have competed for the FS spot, and also been used as a coverage dime corner. Likewise, FS Kerry Rhodes was still available and is now a very capable starter for the Jets. If we didn't take Buenning in round three, we could have nabbed OG Claude Terrel in round four. He is playing well for the Rams.

Millen didn't have his best draft in 2005, and the BMW pick was a poor start. But I don't blame Millen for the glaring misuse of the talent on this roster. I can't recall either Mooch or Jauron ever trying to use BMW in the red zone as a primary target. And that is exactly what should have been done from day one. Use the personnel you have on hand to their best abilities. That's something that Mariucci has never done, and something Jauron seems incapable of doing as well.

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December 15th, 2005, 11:25 am
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m2karateman wrote:
In round three, I was praying for Justin Tucks name to be called. The Stanley Wilson pick was one of the worst in the Millen era, IMO. He didn't fill a need, had barely any chance of contributing, and the Lions had plenty of other needs to fill. If Merriman had been the first round pick, then Buenning, WR Chris Henry, DT Sione Pouha or TE Kevin Everett would have been much better picks.


Remember John Taylor? LOL!


December 15th, 2005, 3:38 pm
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Brian wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
In round three, I was praying for Justin Tucks name to be called. The Stanley Wilson pick was one of the worst in the Millen era, IMO. He didn't fill a need, had barely any chance of contributing, and the Lions had plenty of other needs to fill. If Merriman had been the first round pick, then Buenning, WR Chris Henry, DT Sione Pouha or TE Kevin Everett would have been much better picks.


Remember John Taylor? LOL!


Yes I do. But at least he wasn't a first day pick, and he was a selection in Millens second year of drafting, not his fifth. But good call, Brian. That was one of his worst.

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December 15th, 2005, 4:26 pm
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Quote:
Millen didn't have his best draft in 2005, and the BMW pick was a poor start. But I don't blame Millen for the glaring misuse of the talent on this roster. I can't recall either Mooch or Jauron ever trying to use BMW in the red zone as a primary target. And that is exactly what should have been done from day one. Use the personnel you have on hand to their best abilities. That's something that Mariucci has never done, and something Jauron seems incapable of doing as well.


While i agree Mooch never made good use of the talent he had, i really dont think that not using Mike Williams in the redzone was one of those situations though, considering BMW has played with a serious lack of physicality, is a lackluster blocker, and drops alot of passes, i dont see the advantage of using him in the redzone... Scotty Vines is a far better redzone target and has earned it.

Although i agree 100% about Justin Tuck, i was shocked he lasted till the 3rd, i figured he would go in the 2nd for sure, i actually had his name circled as a good 2nd round pick, then they drafted Stanley Wilson... Although Tuck has not even gotten into the lineup in New York...


December 15th, 2005, 7:17 pm
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HunterMSU wrote:
While i agree Mooch never made good use of the talent he had, i really dont think that not using Mike Williams in the redzone was one of those situations though, considering BMW has played with a serious lack of physicality, is a lackluster blocker, and drops alot of passes, i dont see the advantage of using him in the redzone... Scotty Vines is a far better redzone target and has earned it.


Williams is 6'5" and Vines is barely over 6 feet (listed at 6'1"). He is also has a wider frame than Vines and is capable of blocking out defenders better. He hasn't been given a chance to contribute in the red zone. Getting a very real opportunity to score will give a player the inspiration to become more physical. Not giving BMW a shot in the end zone against much shorter corners or safeties is a HUGE mistake.

HunterMSU wrote:
Although i agree 100% about Justin Tuck, i was shocked he lasted till the 3rd, i figured he would go in the 2nd for sure, i actually had his name circled as a good 2nd round pick, then they drafted Stanley Wilson... Although Tuck has not even gotten into the lineup in New York...


Tuck hasn't starter any games yet, because Strahan has stayed healthy and Osi Umenyiora is having a breakout season. However, he has begun to get an increasing number of plays each game and has shown the potential to be quite good. I had Tuck as a late first, early second rounder myself. Wilson was just a poor pick.

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December 15th, 2005, 7:31 pm
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Quote:
Like LF57, I now see why Millen made that pick, but I don't agree with it. The depth in the 2005 receiver class was such that we could have garnered a fine second receiver in rounds three or four. I was in favor of the Lions taking Shawne Merriman or Jamaal Brown in round one.

I jumped all over the trade up in round two. I like Shaun Cody, but don't think he was worth a second and fourth rounder. Odell Thurman would have been the better round two pick, IMHO. He is proving me right.

In round three, I was praying for Justin Tucks name to be called. The Stanley Wilson pick was one of the worst in the Millen era, IMO. He didn't fill a need, had barely any chance of contributing, and the Lions had plenty of other needs to fill. If Merriman had been the first round pick, then Buenning, WR Chris Henry, DT Sione Pouha or TE Kevin Everett would have been much better picks.


Quote:
Tuck hasn't starter any games yet, because Strahan has stayed healthy and Osi Umenyiora is having a breakout season. However, he has begun to get an increasing number of plays each game and has shown the potential to be quite good. I had Tuck as a late first, early second rounder myself. Wilson was just a poor pick.



m2k.........I am on board with you here.

#1 --- If we couldn't trade down.......I wanted Merriman.
#2 --- I don't buy what Millen said about exploring trades, because they raced to the podium in 2 minutes like little kids going to the candy store.

#3 ---
I also thought we could get a capable WR after round 1.......like most years. If we had tried harder to trade down.....I'm sure somebody (the Saints!) would have given us an extra 3rd rounder to move down 5-7 spots......since the Saints gave up a 3rd rounder to move from #16 to #13.........and we could have taken Mark Clayton if NEEDED!

#4 --- The trade up in round 2 was a killer.

DT was not a desparate need. There were at least 4 good players available that fit needs and could have helped the team.....so we could have stood pat and selected whomever fell to us. Instead, we gave up a pick, which later forced them to give up a FUTURE pick to draft a QB project.

#5 --- At the time he was drafted, Wilson was #5 at best on the CB depth chart.......and considered a reach. I know some teams reach for a player at a position of great need, but CB wasn't a great need.

#6 --- I still don't understand Justin Tuck falling in the draft.
Before the draft, I thought he was a late-1st rounder. I was very impressed by his play in college, and Notre Dame plays tough competition. He has the height to get bigger, plays with good leverage, and was plenty fast enough. He is currently behind the BEST TANDEM of DEs in the NFL........but they are still trying to get him on the field. He made several good plays in the Seahawks game I watched.


After the draft.......I wanted to give Millen the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't that familiar with Stanley Wilson. I did think Cody could help the defense......and BMW could definitely help the redzone offense.

But I was still upset he didn't try longer than 2 minutes to make a move down. Then when he gave up a pick to move 4 spots up...........I had a bad feeling. We definitely should have done better.


December 17th, 2005, 11:52 am
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Quote:
Williams is 6'5" and Vines is barely over 6 feet (listed at 6'1"). He is also has a wider frame than Vines and is capable of blocking out defenders better. He hasn't been given a chance to contribute in the red zone. Getting a very real opportunity to score will give a player the inspiration to become more physical. Not giving BMW a shot in the end zone against much shorter corners or safeties is a HUGE mistake.


In theory Mike Williams should be the best redzone WR on the team, your right with his size he is capable of shielding the ball and catching jump balls, sure he is capable but is he willing?, so far i have not seen Mike Williams shield the ball well, or catch jump balls well, if he cant do those things any other time why would he all of a sudden in the redzone?. No doubt Mike Williams has the size, but IMO its the effort thats lacking.


December 17th, 2005, 5:46 pm
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HunterMSU wrote:
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Williams is 6'5" and Vines is barely over 6 feet (listed at 6'1"). He is also has a wider frame than Vines and is capable of blocking out defenders better. He hasn't been given a chance to contribute in the red zone. Getting a very real opportunity to score will give a player the inspiration to become more physical. Not giving BMW a shot in the end zone against much shorter corners or safeties is a HUGE mistake.


In theory Mike Williams should be the best redzone WR on the team, your right with his size he is capable of shielding the ball and catching jump balls, sure he is capable but is he willing?, so far i have not seen Mike Williams shield the ball well, or catch jump balls well, if he cant do those things any other time why would he all of a sudden in the redzone?. No doubt Mike Williams has the size, but IMO its the effort thats lacking.


How often have you seen him get the opportunity. I've seen just three times near the goal line that Mike was used. Two times the Lions ran slant patterns to him, and the throws were bad. Mike had the defender shielded and would have scored easily. The other time was in Tampa Bay when Mike couldn't keep his feet in the end zone. But they weren't exactly near the goal line then. As a matter of fact, I don't think they were in the red zone then.

I agree that there are times when Mike's efforts are lacking. I'm not saying he is the ideal player. But to give the team the best opportunity to score, you try to use the best player in that circumstance. Williams providing a bigger target gives greater options and better opportunity to score. I am not knocking Scottie. I firmly believe he is our best receiver (haven't seen him drop a pass like Roy does), and he is by far the receiver who puts forth the best efforts each game.

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December 17th, 2005, 5:58 pm
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How often have you seen him get the opportunity. I've seen just three times near the goal line that Mike was used. Two times the Lions ran slant patterns to him, and the throws were bad. Mike had the defender shielded and would have scored easily. The other time was in Tampa Bay when Mike couldn't keep his feet in the end zone. But they weren't exactly near the goal line then. As a matter of fact, I don't think they were in the red zone then.

I agree that there are times when Mike's efforts are lacking. I'm not saying he is the ideal player. But to give the team the best opportunity to score, you try to use the best player in that circumstance. Williams providing a bigger target gives greater options and better opportunity to score. I am not knocking Scottie. I firmly believe he is our best receiver (haven't seen him drop a pass like Roy does), and he is by far the receiver who puts forth the best efforts each game.


Thats a very good point that we have not seen BMW even be used in the redzone very often, but i think the reason is he has not played well enough to warrent being one of the redzone WR. I think your right about the Tampa game it wasnt quite redzone yet.

I do agree Mike Williams has the tools to be the best redzone WR on the team, and he should also be the Lions best blocking WR, but i am disappointed he is neither at this point...


December 17th, 2005, 6:22 pm
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I agree. BMW hasn't been as advertised.

Let's hope the Lions can get someone on the roster/staff that can motivate him and the others.

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December 17th, 2005, 7:23 pm
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I know it's been said that he doesn't want to/won't play TE, but none the less I'd love to see the Lions switch him over. Especially having the opportunity of tutilage(sp?) under Pollard.

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December 17th, 2005, 7:29 pm
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