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 Russel Okung 
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Leo-

Im just curious (nothing bad, just wondering). Do you REALLY think Russel Okung is worth taking at #2? Like stated before, hes not quite at the level of Michael Oher, let along Long or Thomas. So why would you wanna spend 60+ million bucks on a guy that may be just a slight upgrade over Backus.

And with all the talk about Allen, Peppers, Mathews. I see every one of them burning Okung off the edge because I see very slow feet on Okung. I feel as if he has anchors attached to his feet. I can just picture him trying to slide to the edge to stop one of them and tripping over his own feet because he cant physically move that quick.

I just dont see (other than strength) what these analysts are seeing in this guy to use the phrase "superstar left tackle", or "rare, elite left tackle talent".

Like i said before, if Okung was as good as a Joe Thomas or Jake Long, I would reconsider who I think they should take at #2.

Overall, you make very good points, but so does M2K.

Thank God Mayhew has to make this decision, not us.

I still say Suh at #2 and dont look back. Unless we can trade back.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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April 10th, 2010, 10:36 am
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Don't be surprised if it isn't Okung, Suh, or McCoy come draft day. Mayhew knows he still has a lot of long term holes to fill through this years draft as well as next years and FA. He might not get the expected value everybody expects or wants but I have a strong feeling he will make a move. The big selling point will be if the deal includes a 1st rounder next year and a 2nd rounder this year, or a 3rd rounder+. I don't want to get off topic so I'll continue this thought in the dream draft scenario thread or the trade thread.


April 10th, 2010, 11:02 am
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Do I believe Okung is worth the #2?

No I don't believe anybody in this draft is worth the kind of money you have to pay the #2 pick. I think Okung is better than you're giving him credit for as right now just about everybody has him going #4 to Washington if you're good enough to go #4 your good enough to go #2. I also believe if he came out last he would have been the #2 pick because he grades out better than Jason Smith did. He might not be Long or Thomas but he's compared to Clady and Ferguson both who are substantial upgrades from Backus and Cherilus.

I just don't see Suh being a super elite DT he doesn't have the size or speed to dominate at the NFL. I'm sure he's going to be very good because he's talented and a hard worker but I don't see him as the kind of guy who going to get you double digit sacks maybe 5 or 6 a season. They already have a guy in Corey Williams the in theory can get you that at half the price. If Suh can be the next Warren Sapp then you can make an argument that DT is worth the kind of money you normally would only pay a DE. Sapp was a rare player who was exceptionally quick and could run as fast as 4.69 not Suh's very ordinary 5.03. But then you're talking a hall-of-fame player and 'experts' can even agree if Suh is better than McCoy. I see Suh being as good as Tommie Harris not Warren Sapp. Would I love to have Harris on my team? Sure but I'm not going to overpay for him the way Washington overpaid for Haynesworth.

If the Lions don't spend $63 on Okung or Williams I believe it will be inevitable that they will have eventually have to spend a first round pick on one in the next year or two and might not even even get some as good and then to keep you'll have to franchise him just like the Lions had to do with Backus. That's just the going rate for a quality LT these days but not the even the going rate for an elite DT.

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April 10th, 2010, 3:33 pm
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I'm with you Leo as far as Suh and McCoy are concerned at #2. I brought it up before in another thread about the real value of high priced FA DTs and early 1st round DTs. Except for Sapp name one big name 4-3 DT that has helped his team win a Super Bowl since the salary cap was instituted and don't anybody say Sedrick Ellis. In my opinion the Lions are much better off trading back even if they don't get a blockbuster deal and a guy like Linval Joseph at the top of 3rd round if he is still on the board to the DT rotation.


April 10th, 2010, 4:41 pm
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In the beginning I was one of those people that said the Lions should stay at #2 and take McCoy or Suh. But then I realized that #2 money was insane for DT and then I was all about trading down at any price. The Lions would be much better picking outside the top 5 and taking a Derrrick Morgan or Joe Haden instead. But the grim reality is nobody wants the #2 pick.

So if the Lions are stuck at #2 I see left tackle as much better investment than a defensive tackle. Eventually the Lions are going to have to draft one and pay him accordingly. Even if you don't think that Okung or Williams are all that the truth is that to get LT of their caliber means spending a top 10 pick on them.

Quote:
"He remains one of the best players in this draft, if not the best. … He's everything you want a defensive tackle to be," said Kiper. About Suh? Nope - Glen Dorsey.

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April 10th, 2010, 7:42 pm
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sweetd20 wrote:
I'm with you Leo as far as Suh and McCoy are concerned at #2. I brought it up before in another thread about the real value of high priced FA DTs and early 1st round DTs. Except for Sapp name one big name 4-3 DT that has helped his team win a Super Bowl since the salary cap was instituted and don't anybody say Sedrick Ellis. In my opinion the Lions are much better off trading back even if they don't get a blockbuster deal and a guy like Linval Joseph at the top of 3rd round if he is still on the board to the DT rotation.


Just remember that I have said I am in support of the Lions trading back. I think that when Mayhew acquired Corey Williams, he did it because Williams can provide an interior pass rusher, something we didn't have on the roster, and because at that point the draft was still over two months away and it was impossible to know exactly what the Lions would be doing.

I would be thrilled if the Lions can somehow pull off two first round trades, get down to around the 10 or 11 spot, pick up some extra middle round selections and take Dan Williams. I think Williams isn't that far removed from Suh or McCoy. Williams isn't the speed guy McCoy is, or the brutish strength guy Suh is, but he is more of a plugger which is what Schwartz wants.

Like kdsberman, I am not sold on Okung as being a really good LT in the pros. Solid, dependable, but not elite at all. I think Suh has the ability to become an elite DT in the NFL. Will he? I don't own a crystal ball.

If the Lions do take Okung, it's not that I would be pissed off at them. I know that there is potential to upgrade at the LT spot, and that it should be a priority. I would prefer the Lions trade down if they are going take Okung.


April 10th, 2010, 7:51 pm
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When Joe Thomas came out, many folks on this board expressed similar doubts about his talent level. The Lions publicly said he was the real deal and worth the pick. It would seem today that they were right, and the doubters were not. I think the fact is that we are not truly versed enough in the art of scouting to tell the difference. Lots of folks were high on Branden Albert since he was a great prospect to move from OG to LT, that hasn't worked out either. I think if Mayhew thinks Okung has elite LT talent level, he probably does. After last year, I am more inclined to trust his judgement until time shows us the real truth.

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April 10th, 2010, 8:47 pm
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jrd66 wrote:
When Joe Thomas came out, many folks on this board expressed similar doubts about his talent level. The Lions publicly said he was the real deal and worth the pick. It would seem today that they were right, and the doubters were not. I think the fact is that we are not truly versed enough in the art of scouting to tell the difference. Lots of folks were high on Branden Albert since he was a great prospect to move from OG to LT, that hasn't worked out either. I think if Mayhew thinks Okung has elite LT talent level, he probably does. After last year, I am more inclined to trust his judgement until time shows us the real truth.


The only problem I had with Joe Thomas, as well as some others I can recall, was that he had been coming off a major knee injury the year before. He played well his final season in college, but there was speculation that the knee may not have healed completely.

His pre-draft medical examinations showed that the knee was fine, but we aren't privvy to that info.


April 10th, 2010, 10:32 pm
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I've heard people saying lets trade down to get Okung. How in the world are we supposed to trade down when Washington is sitting at #4 waiting for Okung to come to them?


On a side note..i think JRD66 has a good point. If Mayhew believes that Okung has elite LT talent, then take him. I wont be disappointed. I would like to have Suh, but if there were no such thing as Suh or McCoy, I would probably be ok with Hill/Williams as the starting DT's, and invest in a player to protect Stafford. Because I remember when Martz said something about this offense being "A left tackle away" from being good...or something like that.

That way, if we can get Okung at LT, Sims at LG, we can move Backus over to RT and bench Cherilous.


Also, does anyone know how many sacks Okung has given up in his career?

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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April 11th, 2010, 8:35 am
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kdsberman wrote:
I've heard people saying lets trade down to get Okung. How in the world are we supposed to trade down when Washington is sitting at #4 waiting for Okung to come to them?


On a side note..i think JRD66 has a good point. If Mayhew believes that Okung has elite LT talent, then take him. I wont be disappointed. I would like to have Suh, but if there were no such thing as Suh or McCoy, I would probably be ok with Hill/Williams as the starting DT's, and invest in a player to protect Stafford. Because I remember when Martz said something about this offense being "A left tackle away" from being good...or something like that.

That way, if we can get Okung at LT, Sims at LG, we can move Backus over to RT and bench Cherilous.


Also, does anyone know how many sacks Okung has given up in his career?


I know what I'm about to say is far fetched, but is there any chance the Cherilus can play DT? I mean the guy is huge? He did play DT in High School (I know there is a difference between HS and the NFL) just saying he has some experience.

I'm thinking out loud since we drafted him so high and now we are talking about benching him.

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April 11th, 2010, 9:33 am
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Haha good question, but im assuming not.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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April 11th, 2010, 9:39 am
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Quote from Brian Orakpo-

"He's a Big 12 guy, man, a lot of Big 12 guys are really good," Orakpo said. "I've got a lot of respect for him. Me and him, we had a good battle my senior year. He's a guy that's got great feet.



"Very strong, very athletic for a tackle, and whoever picks him up got a hell of a player. I know what type of player he is, and he brings a lot to the table as far as stopping those big-play pass rushers. I'd love to see him here. We need a blocker. We need some blockers. We'll see."




Just thought id throw that in here.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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April 11th, 2010, 9:56 am
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m2karateman wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm with you Leo as far as Suh and McCoy are concerned at #2. I brought it up before in another thread about the real value of high priced FA DTs and early 1st round DTs. Except for Sapp name one big name 4-3 DT that has helped his team win a Super Bowl since the salary cap was instituted and don't anybody say Sedrick Ellis. In my opinion the Lions are much better off trading back even if they don't get a blockbuster deal and a guy like Linval Joseph at the top of 3rd round if he is still on the board to the DT rotation.


Just remember that I have said I am in support of the Lions trading back. I think that when Mayhew acquired Corey Williams, he did it because Williams can provide an interior pass rusher, something we didn't have on the roster, and because at that point the draft was still over two months away and it was impossible to know exactly what the Lions would be doing.

I would be thrilled if the Lions can somehow pull off two first round trades, get down to around the 10 or 11 spot, pick up some extra middle round selections and take Dan Williams. I think Williams isn't that far removed from Suh or McCoy. Williams isn't the speed guy McCoy is, or the brutish strength guy Suh is, but he is more of a plugger which is what Schwartz wants.

Like kdsberman, I am not sold on Okung as being a really good LT in the pros. Solid, dependable, but not elite at all. I think Suh has the ability to become an elite DT in the NFL. Will he? I don't own a crystal ball.

If the Lions do take Okung, it's not that I would be pissed off at them. I know that there is potential to upgrade at the LT spot, and that it should be a priority. I would prefer the Lions trade down if they are going take Okung.


I agree that trading back would be the best medicine. Get more picks, bolster the depth chart with better quality. I have to admit I have been fixating on getting Suh or McCoy at #2. In regards adding Dan Williams if they trade back, I think they already have there plugger in Hill, and by getting Corey Williams they have added a player that can serve both DT spots depending on situation. Mayhew negated the need to take a DT. When Schwartz was with the Titans he had a size guy in Haynesworth and his other DT's were Jason Jones 6-5 280, and Kevin Vickerson 6-5 305. If the Lions do add a DT in the draft, I would think they would be looking more at penetrating type. Just my opinion.
I also am not sold on Okung, and would be disappointed with his selection, but if they think that is the way to go, I support it. I just don't see how Okung as a rookie left tackle is going to be any better than Backus. I acknowledge the need to improve the O-line, but don't feel that any of this years tackle prospects are worthy of the #2 selection.


April 11th, 2010, 10:28 am
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Here is my problem with Suh and McCoy I don't think either of them are elite either. The both grade out favorably to Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Elllis from 2 years ago. Neither player is overly big and neither player is overly fast or quick.

Warren Sapp was a nightmare problem for teams because he was as quick as most ends. Suh and McCoy are not. Nor are the as big and athletic as say Shaun Rogers or Albert Haynesworth.

So you guys want to bash Okung for not being elite your right he's not Jake Long but neither are Suh and McCoy. They are not going to be the next Sapp. In all they are nothing more than the best this draft has to offer. Which it's very deep in players but lacks elite players at the top.

Seriously Todd McShay has Suh listed as a 97 and Okung as 96 so there is basically no difference in the players abilities. No player stands head and shoulders above the rest.

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April 11th, 2010, 11:50 am
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lol. McShay has no credibility.

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April 11th, 2010, 4:04 pm
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