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 The Wide Receiver Situation 
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Post The Wide Receiver Situation
10 Vines, Scottie WR 6-1 204 26 2 Wyoming
15 Herzing, Adam WR 6-3 195 24 1 Cal Poly-SLO
12 Martinez, Glenn WR 6-2 183 23 1 Saginaw Valley State
87 Kircus, David WR 6-2 190 25 3 Grand Valley State
88 Williams, Mike WR 6-4 229 21 R Southern California
81 Hakim, Az-Zahir WR 5-10 189 27 8 San Diego State
18 Drummond, Eddie WR 5-9 190 25 4 Penn State
80 Rogers, Charles WR 6-3 202 23 3 Michigan State
11 Williams, Roy WR 6-2 212 23 2 Texas


So what do you do now? I like the idea of Az taking a paycut, but he probably won't fly with that. But if he wants the best situation for himself, he should stay with Detroit. Running around as a fourth receiver behind Rogers and the Williams is going to be the easiest job he ever had. He looked very good when Roy was healthy. We could actually have 5 receiver sets.

Here's some of the packages I envision. Our base package will consist of three receivers instead of two like previous years. We used to field both a Tight End and Full Back in our base offense, but for making room for Mike Williams, the base package will have either a tight end or a full back. This is why I rename the three wide set as our 'base' package.

Weakside_______Strongside

Z-Flanker
H-Strongside Slot
Y-Weakside Slot
X-Split End

Base-TE (Singleback)
Z-Charles Rogers
Y-Mike Williams
X-Roy Williams

Z__Y__OOOOOT__X
_________Q______
_________HB______

This is the pass heavy formation. Kevin Jones will need to be able to run from a single back formation. Running should still be possible running behind Pollard on the strong side, and Mike Williams as a slot in the weakside. Roy might be a better blocker so we could put Roy in the slot. Either way, Joey has a choice of 5 possible very good receivers.

Base-FB
Z-Charles Rogers
Y-Mike Williams
X-Roy Williams

Z__Y__OOOOO___X
________QB______
______HB___FB____

You can still disguise passing from this formation, because Schlesinger is also an excellent receiver. Mike Williams can motion from the weakside to the strongside and back if we want to check what defenses are playing. If the LB or safety follows him, it's man. If it's not, it's zone. We can still use the slot as a hybrid TE because they'll be big. So KJ can still run behind the FB and Y. Especially if it's delayed, they can run to the weakside and throw defenses off.

Pro Set (2 Receivers)
Z-Charles Rogers/Roy Williams
X-Mike Williams/Roy Williams

Z_____OOOOOT__X
________QB______
______HB__FB_____

It's funny because this used to be the base package. It's now a secondary formation because it takes one of our big weapons off the field. But it's still dangerous, because each weapon is dangerous. It's better suited for running, but it's still effective for passing. Funny how it can be used to disguise some creative passing plays. It's base for running though. Take a look at the strongside, and just think of the blockers KJ will be running behind. Schlesinger, Pollard, and either of the Williams.' Them along with strongside linemen: Butler and Woody. That's a pretty good group of smashmouth personnel. I have Charles Rogers at the Flank, because he's the fastest. I put Mike Williams on the Split End because he's big and strong. Roy is both Big and Fast so he is interchangeable on both sides. We are really flexible here.

Power (2 Tightends)
Z-Roy Williams/Charles Rogers
X-Mike Williams/Roy Williams

Z____TOOOOOT____X
________QB________
________HB________

The lions were sucessful with this last year, so I don't think they'll scrap it. If they really want to press the issue to run the ball, they can put two tight ends on one side. And if they really want to go all out smash mouth, they can take the flanker out and put a Full back in. But I doubt we'll see that much.

Four Wide
Z-Charles Rogers
Y-Kevin Johnson/Az Hakim
H-Mike Williams
X-Roy Williams

Z__Y__OOOOO__H__X
________QB________
________HB_________

Can you say passing attack? Now we're getting all run and shoot here. But don't worry, this is a very effective way to run. KJ will have the benefit of running on a nickel defense. You think he'd like to bang with a DB instead of a linebacker? He's licking his chops. Joey can line up in the shot gun as well with KJ flanking him to pick up any pass rush. The shot gun will help him get a better read initially. If we really want to force the issue and pass, then Schlesinger can line up as the single back. He's our best blocker anyway.

Trips
Z-Charles Rogers
Y-Kevin Johnson/Az Hakim
H-Mike Williams
X-Roy Williams

Z____OOOOO_H_Y_X
________QB________
________HB_________

I see this a lot in Hawaii. If the offense is on either hash, usually you can over load one side. You can reverse this and overload the weakside too. Conventionally you'd think overload the side with more space, which is what you do. But think about the unconventional. Say we are on the right hash, and we overload the right side. That crowds the DB's on one side, and the flanker gets single coverage and wide open spaces. It's all over for that DB there. Especially if we put Mike WIlliams there, or Roy Williams, or gosh even Charles Rogers. These guys will be licking there chops. Same deal with the shot gun here too.

Five Wide
Z-Charles Rogers
Y-Mike Williams
H-Kevin Johnson
U-Az Hakim/Scottie Vines/David Kircus
X-Roy Williams

Z__Y__OOOOO_H_U_X
________QB________

You think we want to pass the ball here? We got mismatches at every receiver position. But we can still run the ball, it's a dime defense after all. If the defense doesn't want to play dime, then we'll just exploit them passing.

Of course with all our weapons, we can get really creative. But you can really see the potential on our offense if all of them are healthy.

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April 24th, 2005, 3:16 pm
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Very good run though HB. Kudos on the rendering those formations through this interface.

Obviously we are going to see a lot of 3 WRs. Williams salary demands that. Also, at least one receiver will be going deep every play. I suppose that will be the "base". We ran the 3WR maybe 20% last year, and obviously with C-Rog out it made sense to go with 2 TE to give us more of a pass/run flexibility. One way of looking at the Williams acquisition is that it will dramatically improve our red zone proficiency. This is because the end zone squeezes the safeties and allows Williams an edge for jump balls and fades.

The other dramatic change will come in our running game. Rather than having KJ run through an eight man box out of various power formations, he will be running more often against a nickel without a lead blocker. That will be both good and bad. Bad in the sense, that I think that KJ is more of Denver one cut runner than a Barryesque openfield type of guy. That is not to say that KJ is not good in the openfield, but he is more of a slasher go to X or Y hole kind of guy. He does not have the elite quickness to elude a super fast LB blitzing the corner on the outside. Still, this will be good for many more chunk plays, both on passes out to the flat and plays where KJ cleanly cuts between the tackles. With the field more stretched he should get many more of those 20 yard carries than last year. Like with the run and shoot I would expect an even higher yardage/carry, but a greater variability 3, -4, 24, 5 sort of thing.

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April 24th, 2005, 7:25 pm
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I think that the drafting of Mike Williams and the addition of Marcus Pollard will be counterproductive towards the development of Kevin Jones.

Jones is only effective when he has Schlesinger in front of him. He isn't good in a single back formation. That's what the Lions envision a lot this year, singleback formations.

It will be interesting to see what Detroit does with lots of weapons. Tollner must be a happy man right now. He gets to strategize with Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, Kevin Jones, Roy Williams, and Marcus Pollard at the skill positions. Sheesh.

Hakim will be cut... sayonara!


April 24th, 2005, 9:15 pm
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HB, awesome work, man! I don't think that you were totally willing to turn the critical eye to some of the inherent negative implications of those spread formations, given our personnel. Brian is right when he suggests that KJ will likely suffer a little regression on account of this new spread offense.

I agree that MW, Roy, and CRog will all have to be on the field as musc as possible. With the amount of money (and the opportunity cost) sunk into these guys, we need to have them making an impact on nearly every snap. However, I wonder if you can possibly throw Roy or Mike the ball enough to fully utilize them with so many #1-type guys and no role players (like a more typical slot)?

Most importantly............we still have either Joey or Jeff freakin' Garcia to find the open guy and deliver the pill. Personally, I have NO FAITH in Joey's ability to read coverages and find the open man. I think he fails to anticipate breaks horribly, and so he forces late throws to WRs who were open.

I haven't seen much of Jeff Garcia since he was slinging to TO, but as I recall, even in his last season with TO, Garcia didn't show much of an ability to get the ball to his stud WR. Also, his notoriously-wobbly deep ball (how would you throw with a freakin' batter's glove on?) is going to negate our speed on the ends. Teams will already know that Garcia isn't likely to connect on the deep route.

Finally, I am sad to see that Sledge's duties will probably diminish. He is a very competent receiver out of the backfield, but his value to KJ (like Brian mentioned) is immeasurable. Who wouldn't like a Sledge to plow the way for him?

[I should probably still disclaim all my posts because of this gaping hole in my chest where my ticker used to be..... crybaby2.gif ]

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April 25th, 2005, 12:16 am
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Post Re: The Wide Receiver Situation
Quote:
Honolulu_Blue wrote:
10 Vines, Scottie WR 6-1 204 26 2 Wyoming
15 Herzing, Adam WR 6-3 195 24 1 Cal Poly-SLO
12 Martinez, Glenn WR 6-2 183 23 1 Saginaw Valley State
87 Kircus, David WR 6-2 190 25 3 Grand Valley State
88 Williams, Mike WR 6-4 229 21 R Southern California
81 Hakim, Az-Zahir WR 5-10 189 27 8 San Diego State
18 Drummond, Eddie WR 5-9 190 25 4 Penn State[


I dont know whats up with Eddie D., but the first four a good candidates for the practice squad, and AZ is gone... The practice squad might have one guy listed on the depth chart, but without an injury... they ll never see playing time

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April 25th, 2005, 1:26 pm
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When they called Williams name my buddy asked if we are going to bring back the run and shoot. What an rectum.


The matchups will be awsome. You cant double any of our WR. Teams will be forced to play zone. Zone will help the running game and also help with screens and draws. Pollard will be key espically in cover two if he can get down the seam. Know we have playmakers and Joey has no excuses


April 25th, 2005, 1:39 pm
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blueblood1 wrote:
I haven't seen much of Jeff Garcia since he was slinging to TO, but as I recall, even in his last season with TO, Garcia didn't show much of an ability to get the ball to his stud WR. Also, his notoriously-wobbly deep ball (how would you throw with a freakin' batter's glove on?) is going to negate our speed on the ends. Teams will already know that Garcia isn't likely to connect on the deep route.


HB - really nice post. I am impressed at how you laid it out in this type of format. Great Job.

blueblood1 - I think all of us have concerns, and rightly so, about the QBs. To Jeff's defense in SF, they had TO and, um....Tai Streets. It is a little bit tougher to get the ball to a guy that the opponents have game planned against and totally focused on. That would be difficult to do in Detroit to say the least.

Brian - you bring up some interesting points but you are basing that on last year when the box was loaded - of course he needed Sledge then. I think you could also argue that having only 7 in the box will open things up for KJ and that once he gets to the DBs - watch out.

Pollard will improve our blocking at the line. I was impressed with some of ROY's blocking downfield on game film. If BMW can use his size properly, the Lions could have some great blocking downfield leading to a lot of long runs. DeMulling will also help at the line of scrimmage. I expect KJ to have a fantastic year.

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April 25th, 2005, 1:54 pm
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Pablo wrote:
Brian - you bring up some interesting points but you are basing that on last year when the box was loaded - of course he needed Sledge then. I think you could also argue that having only 7 in the box will open things up for KJ and that once he gets to the DBs - watch out.


That's why he should have a great YPC this season. If receivers are double teamed, and OLBs are forced to play deep, KJ should have a very solid YPC. If they don't, they risk getting picked apart by the WRs. I've never been this enthusiastic about a Lions offense...ever.


April 25th, 2005, 2:02 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
I've never been this enthusiastic about a Lions offense...ever.

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April 25th, 2005, 2:08 pm
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Okay, as an offense as a whole. I was never thrilled with Mitchell, despite that outstanding season he had. Who couldn't be thrilled to have the best RB to play the game? Moore, Morton, Perriman were all good players. I guess I should say, I haven't been entthusiastic since Barry left.


April 25th, 2005, 2:28 pm
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My quoting you was an "Amen". I am pumped :wink:

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April 25th, 2005, 3:43 pm
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=citadel-2_374164_93&prov=citadel&type=story

Thats some funny stuff, and scary at the same time.
Quote:
But enough of that nonsense. We need to spend more time basking in the Honolulu-glow of our new Lion, and forfeit valuable time in our lives by forecasting in-season scenarios.

I'll go first.

In the huddle somewhere in Detroit …

Joey: Zebra Gap, X72, Blue-Niner on …

MW: That's to me, right?

Joey: Not unless …

RW: Remember the Washington catch, Joey? Let's repeat history …

MW: Apparently you didn't watch me play Michigan. Joey, do the smart thing. I'll be in the end zone waiting.

Joey: Don't worry who …

CR: You two bottom feeders weren't even drafted in the top 5. Joey, I'll be open. And remember, we have history…

MP: If you throw to Charles, try to keep it high …

Joey: It isn't even a …

WHISTLE.

KJ: It was a running play, stupids.





he he he he he. :lol:

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April 26th, 2005, 8:16 am
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That was great, it sounded like a play from the "Replacements" movie, only Joey needs longer hair and there needs to be some input from the linemen who don't seem to know which way they are headed. :lol: :arrow: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Give Joey a bottle of beer and a surfboard, take away the white wine and piano. Just give the boy an attitude and something just might happen. Oh yes don't forget the cheerleaders. Lets act like a football team instead of a kids ride at Cedar Pointe


April 26th, 2005, 8:53 am
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This is such a good thread I thought I would bump it.

There is another part of the equation: Marcus Pollard. One concern that I have is that we seem to have all vertical guys. Who is going to be the outlet receiver? Take the analogy of a car. You cannot build it with all high power engines, you need some of the grunt guys to make it all work. Well, that is a horrible analogy but I am brain dead. Basically, what I am saying that a succesful offense takes more than thorough breds. My god, we can throw deep and score TDs, but we still need some guys to move the chains beside KJ. Who is going to be that valuable Stokely type of possession guy?

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April 28th, 2005, 8:50 pm
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Quote:
Who is going to be that valuable Stokely type of possession guy?


I thought that that is Mike's role, possesion guy, not a burner.

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April 28th, 2005, 9:59 pm
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