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 Draft A QB or No? - Also QB Importance vs Building a Top 5 D 
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

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Post Re: Draft A QB or No? - Also QB Importance vs Building a Top
OK, we're getting a little loopy here with exactly what constitutes "building." It's getting a little silly, so let's slow down a bit. If we're going to say the Seahawks built around Shaun Alexander then we must also argue that the Lions built around Calvin Johnson. So the whole conversation would be moot.

What's been argued over and over is that the "correct" way to build a team is to get all of the other pieces in place (defense, OL, etc.) and then add a QB, thus giving that player a good chance of succeeding. The Jets did it this way with Sanchez, the Ravens were already good when they drafted Flacco. It is a reasonable argument, no doubt. But Peyton Manning was added to one of the worst teams in the league (3-13). So was Carson Palmer (2-14), so was Matt Hasselbeck, so was Mike Vick (4-12).

Yes, there were some players on those rosters when the QB was added--but BEFORE those teams were consistently competitive, their front offices went out and got their QB. The Jets were on the verge of the playoffs when they drafted Sanchez; Jim Mora was clinging to his job by a thread when they drafted Manning. Let's not pretend the Colts were happy with the foundation of their roster just because they had Tarik Glenn.

"Hilarious"? That's cute. Read carefully: I never wrote that the Seahawks drafted Hasselbeck--they built around him. They were terrible when he arrived (4th place in the division) but they went out and traded for a young, unproven QB. And if you want to be accurate you'll see that Hasselbeck was acquired a month before Hutchinson. Nice try, though.

The Falcons went deep in the playoffs TWICE with Vick at QB. Ultimately not successful in the long term but the fact remains that they built around him, became a contender, and then immediately spent another #1 pick on a QB when Vick was suspended. I call that "building around a QB." Call it what you will.

The Rams are building around Sam Bradford. They drafted linemen in recent drafts but they were awful when Bradford was drafted and not inviting him into an already-solid locker room. Again, if one argues that the Rams are building around Chris Long or Steven Jackson, that's fine, but one would likewise have to argue that the Lions are building around Calvin Johnson. Can't have it both ways.

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January 25th, 2011, 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Draft A QB or No? - Also QB Importance vs Building a Top
Everybodys got good arguments.. which means 1 thing...

There are multiple ways to building a winning team, and its WHO you Pick, HOW you coach them Up, and a poop of LUCK (Lack iof Injuries to your team, Injuries to other teams top players, etc) that determines who does good and who does not. Not whether or not you build around the QB or before.

/THREAD


January 25th, 2011, 10:29 pm
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Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

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Post Re: Draft A QB or No? - Also QB Importance vs Building a Top
DJ-B wrote:
Everybodys got good arguments.. which means 1 thing...

There are multiple ways to building a winning team, and its WHO you Pick, HOW you coach them Up, and a poop of LUCK (Lack iof Injuries to your team, Injuries to other teams top players, etc) that determines who does good and who does not. Not whether or not you build around the QB or before.

/THREAD


I've found it frustratingly addictive :lol: Probably a good reminder that the dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.

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January 26th, 2011, 12:49 am
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Post Re: Draft A QB or No? - Also QB Importance vs Building a Top
mwill2 wrote:
OK, we're getting a little loopy here with exactly what constitutes "building." It's getting a little silly, so let's slow down a bit. If we're going to say the Seahawks built around Shaun Alexander then we must also argue that the Lions built around Calvin Johnson. So the whole conversation would be moot.

What's been argued over and over is that the "correct" way to build a team is to get all of the other pieces in place (defense, OL, etc.) and then add a QB, thus giving that player a good chance of succeeding. The Jets did it this way with Sanchez, the Ravens were already good when they drafted Flacco. It is a reasonable argument, no doubt. But Peyton Manning was added to one of the worst teams in the league (3-13). So was Carson Palmer (2-14), so was Matt Hasselbeck, so was Mike Vick (4-12).

Yes, there were some players on those rosters when the QB was added--but BEFORE those teams were consistently competitive, their front offices went out and got their QB. The Jets were on the verge of the playoffs when they drafted Sanchez; Jim Mora was clinging to his job by a thread when they drafted Manning. Let's not pretend the Colts were happy with the foundation of their roster just because they had Tarik Glenn.

"Hilarious"? That's cute. Read carefully: I never wrote that the Seahawks drafted Hasselbeck--they built around him. They were terrible when he arrived (4th place in the division) but they went out and traded for a young, unproven QB. And if you want to be accurate you'll see that Hasselbeck was acquired a month before Hutchinson. Nice try, though.

The Falcons went deep in the playoffs TWICE with Vick at QB. Ultimately not successful in the long term but the fact remains that they built around him, became a contender, and then immediately spent another #1 pick on a QB when Vick was suspended. I call that "building around a QB." Call it what you will.

The Rams are building around Sam Bradford. They drafted linemen in recent drafts but they were awful when Bradford was drafted and not inviting him into an already-solid locker room. Again, if one argues that the Rams are building around Chris Long or Steven Jackson, that's fine, but one would likewise have to argue that the Lions are building around Calvin Johnson. Can't have it both ways.



My argument is that the Seahawks, Falcons, Bengals, and the Rams all looked much more like the Jets when they took Sanchez than us taking Stafford. It doesn't matter that Hass was acquired a month before Hutch, they both started the season together. Hass never played a game with the crappy OL of the 1999-2000 Seahawks, that's my point. They were a much more solid team than we are now, having drafted a year after Stafford was picked. The same is true regarding the Rams, the Falcons and Matt Ryan, and the Bengals and Palmer. In EVERY instance the team drafting the Qb had a solid running game in place before the Qb had to play an NFL down.


January 26th, 2011, 1:38 am
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Post Re: Draft A QB or No? - Also QB Importance vs Building a Top
You're 100% right. Those teams were not in the same situation as the Lions. The thing is though, that the Lions were in a worse situation than any other team ever, perhaps save some expansion teams.

See, I think the Lions partly agreed with you and didn't want to take Stafford. But they really didn't have any other options.


January 26th, 2011, 4:57 am
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