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 Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay 
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
BillySims wrote:
Why do homosexuals even think we care? Keep your sexlife out of the public. This has nothing to do with how good of a player he is. Just be a good player and no one will care at all what goes on in your bedroom.

I am straight. Does anyone care? I didn't think so.


I get what your saying, but if Ray Lewis came out u be shocked and care. I think for the most part it's so they don't have to get caught by TMZ coming out a gay club or holding hands with a guy and answer those awkward questions later pissing off fans later who will probably feel scammed after building these guys on a pedestal.

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February 12th, 2014, 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
Trust me folks, I get the fact that we're not going to agree. We look at things from two different perspectives, and we'll not see eye to eye. I am not going to come out bashing this guy for his choice, nor am I going to fail to associate with him, or any other homosexual I might happen to cross paths with. They are people, just as I am, and deserve to be treated with respect and love just like anyone else. My problem is that the whole tolerance argument is one sided! The homosexual movement demands that I accept their life choices, and their relationships, but they will not tolerate my Christianity. However, there is a little bit of a difference here, my relationship with Jesus Christ, does NOT allow me to push my perspectives on them as a whole. If I am in a position to establish a relationship with a homosexual, then through the process of friendship, I'll begin to discuss it, and hopefully encourage them to see the truth according to Scripture. But I will NOT beat them with a Bible. Like many of you here, I'll pray for them and leave the results up to the only one who can actually do the changing; God.

It's just troubling that this is being force fed to our children, attempting to indoctrinate them into thinking that this is a normal and acceptable lifestyle. As long as he's a good player, his choice shouldn't matter.

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February 12th, 2014, 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
btw, If Ray Lewis came out of the closet, my heart would be saddend and I'd pray for him, but that's about as far as that would go...

Let's keep in mind that Christianity does NOT hold the market on righteousness and holiness by any stretch of the imagination. Being a Christian means nothing more than being forgiven for our human nature. Anything else is just pride!

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February 12th, 2014, 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Trust me folks, I get the fact that we're not going to agree. We look at things from two different perspectives, and we'll not see eye to eye. I am not going to come out bashing this guy for his choice, nor am I going to fail to associate with him, or any other homosexual I might happen to cross paths with. They are people, just as I am, and deserve to be treated with respect and love just like anyone else. My problem is that the whole tolerance argument is one sided! The homosexual movement demands that I accept their life choices, and their relationships, but they will not tolerate my Christianity. However, there is a little bit of a difference here, my relationship with Jesus Christ, does NOT allow me to push my perspectives on them as a whole. If I am in a position to establish a relationship with a homosexual, then through the process of friendship, I'll begin to discuss it, and hopefully encourage them to see the truth according to Scripture. But I will NOT beat them with a Bible. Like many of you here, I'll pray for them and leave the results up to the only one who can actually do the changing; God.

It's just troubling that this is being force fed to our children, attempting to indoctrinate them into thinking that this is a normal and acceptable lifestyle. As long as he's a good player, his choice shouldn't matter.

Two things:

1) I've still never seen you address the choice part of your statements. You keep claiming that homosexuality is a choice, but I'm not aware of any evidence that supports that contention. In fact, most points the other way. Most (if not all) of the prominent people who claimed to be able to cure gay people and make them straight have either been found to be gay themselves, and/or have had to rescind their statements and admit that it is not something to be cured. Also (and this is the most illustrative part that I'd like to hear you answer), you keep ignoring people's legitimate questions about attraction. If homosexuality is a choice, then heterosexuality must also be a choice. If that is the case, can you elaborate on when you made that decision? I know that I have never consciously made a choice to be attracted to women. I just am. Similarly, I have never made a conscious decision to be more attracted to brunettes than I am to blondes, but I am. It's just part of me. It isn't a choice I've made. To me, that's the same as sexual orientation. Some people are attracted to one type of person and not attracted to another (blondes vs brunettes, men vs women, etc.). So, again, the question is, did you make a conscious decision to be straight? If so, when?

2) Taking the choice element out of it (for the sake of conversation), I really don't understand what you mean when you say you're being asked (demanded) to accept the homosexual movements while they will not tolerate your Christianity. Yes there are extremists who are intolerant within the homosexual movement (just like there are in every group), but I think they are a minority. For the most part, gay activists are simply asking for equal rights. They want to have the same legal rights as heterosexual people. How is this forcing you to accept anything? From my perspective, it literally has zero impact on you and me. From where I sit, our lives don't change one bit if two gay people are allowed to be married, or if a gay man inherits his spouse's belongings upon his death, etc. I really don't get it. What am I missing?

edited to add:
This is a Dallas newscaster with his take on the situation. I agree 100%.

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Last edited by Touchdown Jesus on February 13th, 2014, 4:51 am, edited 2 times in total.



February 13th, 2014, 3:34 am
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
WarEr4Christ wrote:
they will not tolerate my Christianity

In what way?

Are there laws against christianity?

Are you at risk of being beaten up in the US because of your christianity?

Do you feel the need to hide your christianity because of society's potential negative reaction towards it?

This idea that you are not tolerated but homosexuals are is frankly nonsense. You're a straight white christian male in america but somehow you still feel persecuted? That's one hell of a persecution complex.


February 13th, 2014, 4:19 am
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
TDJ,

This goes back to the initial line in the statement in question. We will not see things from the same perspective, so you will not accept the information that I have that backs up what I said about choice. But if you want to see the evidence any way, might I encourage you to scroll up to where I posted the scripture from Romans. It's clearly stated, and quite plain to read.


Romans 1: 20 - 30' "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over ( this means that He allowed them to have their way, they chose to pursue self instead of God, so He let them have their way.) to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;"

Slybri19 brought up a statistic that I'm not sure about it's accuracy but I'll relay HIS words. 3% of the American public claim homosexuality, and their agenda is designed to force the 97% to accept their perverted (different) lifestyle as being normal. The media, the movies, the President, the political policies, the justice department, the military, the television shows (especially those aimed at children: Good Luck Charlie introduced gay parents), all are meant to indoctrinate our youth. THIS brainwashing is not for us now, just like the corrupt policies and circumventing the US Constitution and changing of our government are not meant for us now. They are meant for our children and all who follow later.

Vlad. Lennin made the statement, "give me a child for 4 years, and I will return to you a bolshevik (communist)" I paraphrased that! The leaders of right now in our government are the activists of the 60's. They grew up, got into power, and are now changing the very fabric of our nation. But that's a different story.

What I'm trying to say is that there is an effor to train our next generation into thinking that this is normal...


I'll get back on the Christian thing, but that too is based upon perspective and if you aren't on the inside you couldn't understand the perspective.

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February 13th, 2014, 10:05 am
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
Back on topic. I think he has raised his draft stock from announcing. 3 days ago almost no one knew who Micheal Sam was. Now everyone on GOD's green Earth knows who he is.


February 13th, 2014, 11:13 am
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
WarEr4Christ wrote:
TDJ,

This goes back to the initial line in the statement in question. We will not see things from the same perspective, so you will not accept the information that I have that backs up what I said about choice. But if you want to see the evidence any way, might I encourage you to scroll up to where I posted the scripture from Romans. It's clearly stated, and quite plain to read.


Romans 1: 20 - 30' "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over ( this means that He allowed them to have their way, they chose to pursue self instead of God, so He let them have their way.) to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;"

Slybri19 brought up a statistic that I'm not sure about it's accuracy but I'll relay HIS words. 3% of the American public claim homosexuality, and their agenda is designed to force the 97% to accept their perverted (different) lifestyle as being normal. The media, the movies, the President, the political policies, the justice department, the military, the television shows (especially those aimed at children: Good Luck Charlie introduced gay parents), all are meant to indoctrinate our youth. THIS brainwashing is not for us now, just like the corrupt policies and circumventing the US Constitution and changing of our government are not meant for us now. They are meant for our children and all who follow later.

Vlad. Lennin made the statement, "give me a child for 4 years, and I will return to you a bolshevik (communist)" I paraphrased that! The leaders of right now in our government are the activists of the 60's. They grew up, got into power, and are now changing the very fabric of our nation. But that's a different story.

What I'm trying to say is that there is an effor to train our next generation into thinking that this is normal...


I'll get back on the Christian thing, but that too is based upon perspective and if you aren't on the inside you couldn't understand the perspective.

Even if everything you wrote is accepted as true, how does any of that affect you? You are not prevented from living your life in any way you see fit. You still have all the same legal rights and protections you did yesterday, last week/month/year/decade. You can be married, have full marital rights, and you personally don't have to accept any gay marriage as legitimate. If you don't like what's on tv or in movies, you don't have to watch. None of those things have any effect on you. And if you don't want your kids to think being gay is normal, you teach them that it's not. Just like people who want their kids to believe the the bible/torah/koran are the true word of God teach their kids that their book of choice is the "right" one. That's actually the best analogy I can think of: The US constitution grants that everyone is free to practice whichever religion they so desire. You are a Christian and you believe the bible to be the truth. If you have a neighbor who doesn't believe that, does it diminish your faith? Does it have some negative impact on your life? I'd argue that it does not. Your faith is between you and God and is personal. Another person's lack of or different faith in no way takes away from yours. Similarly, another person's sexual orientation, whether you believe it to be a choice or not, in no way takes away from or diminishes your ability to live your life in the way you see fit. You have the option to take part (or not) in tv shows, movies, pop culture, etc. If they conflict with the message by which you want to live your life, you can choose not to have them in your life. Similarly if you don't want the "gay lifestyle" in your life, you can choose to shield yourself from it by not watching tv/movies, etc.

I still haven't seen a single example of how anything is forced upon you or a way in which your life is negatively effected.

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February 13th, 2014, 12:22 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
BillySims wrote:
Back on topic. I think he has raised his draft stock from announcing. 3 days ago almost no one knew who Micheal Sam was. Now everyone on GOD's green Earth knows who he is.

I think people in the football world knew he he was. After all, he was the SEC defensive player of the year. That's actually quite a big deal.

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February 13th, 2014, 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
BillySims wrote:
Back on topic. I think he has raised his draft stock from announcing. 3 days ago almost no one knew who Micheal Sam was. Now everyone on GOD's green Earth knows who he is.


I disagree from a football perspective. The player grade will not change on him and a number of football teams will want this kind of distraction. I think he drops at least a round, perhaps two.

Now that everyone knows who he is, however, his endorsement deals will skyrocket from basically nothing. I bet companies are already banging down his closet door!

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February 13th, 2014, 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
TDJ,

You are spot on, all of those examples are correct. It does not affect me personally, and it is my responsibility as a husband, and father to protect, teach, and mold my children accordingly.

I personally do not weigh in, or side with the marriage debates. I do not support nor defend DOMA, because I could care less. Like your handle says, if you don't like gay marriage, don't get one.

The way this negatively affects me, is in how my daughter is fed acceptance and tolerance, and the normalcy of a different lifestyle. It goes back to my original point. WHY DOES IT MATTER? If you're gay, then be gay and flare as much as you wish in an appropriate environment. But in the public realm, there is no rights to demonstrate the flare of homosexuality, just as much as I'm not allowed to pray in public gatherings (graduations, meetings, and things of that nature, according to the ACLU). Do I pray for my meals in public? Yes. Can a gay couple eat and associate in public? Yes.

My point is stop pushing! I can turn the other channel, or teach a certain way, but why portray something as normal when it is not? That is where the acceptance comes in. I don't agree with media, and all other areas mentioned above being pushed into my face, so if I push back, I'm now intolerant. No! I just don't wish for it to be broadcast. I would say the same thing about vulgar language in public, and I do say something to those who choose to speak like that in front of my wife and daughter. It is my duty as a husband to protect their purity and I will do that to the best of my ability. Does it offend people that I call them out on their language, yes, but is it proper? Yes. Would you not do the same?

All that evil needs to prevail is for good men to do nothing! Because we have not maintained standards of decency in this country, we are now shamefully portray all kinds of behaviors for everyone to see, and telling the world, you've got to accept it. No, I don't, and I won't! Decency is a common endeavor that allows ALL of us to interact on a common level, what you choose to do in your home or bedroom is your business, but don't bring it into the public and tell me I have to accept it. That's the area of concern, that's the area that it negatively affects me, and the intolerance towards Christianity comes from the push back against that behavior, for the sake of decency. Again, this goes far above homosexuality, it covers drugs, prostitution, language, public display of affection and much more. Decency is a mutual respect for all in a public forum, and that used to be the common sense approach to this country. Now it isn't.

This is why I've said, if Sam or Collins want to come out, let them come out in the locker room, why does the nation need to hear that you are attracted to men? How is that sports worthy information? How is it not an attempt to put the agenda in the eyes and ears of the public, especially the young, who are idolizing these men in women for being sports heroes? Again, it's brain washing 101.

I do my part as a husband and father, but I can only do so much, that is why the public arena is not the appropriate place for such actions, and shouldn't be.

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February 13th, 2014, 1:19 pm
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
WarEr4Christ wrote:
TDJ,

You are spot on, all of those examples are correct. It does not affect me personally, and it is my responsibility as a husband, and father to protect, teach, and mold my children accordingly.

I personally do not weigh in, or side with the marriage debates. I do not support nor defend DOMA, because I could care less. Like your handle says, if you don't like gay marriage, don't get one.

The way this negatively affects me, is in how my daughter is fed acceptance and tolerance, and the normalcy of a different lifestyle. It goes back to my original point. WHY DOES IT MATTER? If you're gay, then be gay and flare as much as you wish in an appropriate environment. But in the public realm, there is no rights to demonstrate the flare of homosexuality, just as much as I'm not allowed to pray in public gatherings (graduations, meetings, and things of that nature, according to the ACLU). Do I pray for my meals in public? Yes. Can a gay couple eat and associate in public? Yes.

My point is stop pushing! I can turn the other channel, or teach a certain way, but why portray something as normal when it is not? That is where the acceptance comes in. I don't agree with media, and all other areas mentioned above being pushed into my face, so if I push back, I'm now intolerant. No! I just don't wish for it to be broadcast. I would say the same thing about vulgar language in public, and I do say something to those who choose to speak like that in front of my wife and daughter. It is my duty as a husband to protect their purity and I will do that to the best of my ability. Does it offend people that I call them out on their language, yes, but is it proper? Yes. Would you not do the same?

All that evil needs to prevail is for good men to do nothing! Because we have not maintained standards of decency in this country, we are now shamefully portray all kinds of behaviors for everyone to see, and telling the world, you've got to accept it. No, I don't, and I won't! Decency is a common endeavor that allows ALL of us to interact on a common level, what you choose to do in your home or bedroom is your business, but don't bring it into the public and tell me I have to accept it. That's the area of concern, that's the area that it negatively affects me, and the intolerance towards Christianity comes from the push back against that behavior, for the sake of decency. Again, this goes far above homosexuality, it covers drugs, prostitution, language, public display of affection and much more. Decency is a mutual respect for all in a public forum, and that used to be the common sense approach to this country. Now it isn't.

This is why I've said, if Sam or Collins want to come out, let them come out in the locker room, why does the nation need to hear that you are attracted to men? How is that sports worthy information? How is it not an attempt to put the agenda in the eyes and ears of the public, especially the young, who are idolizing these men in women for being sports heroes? Again, it's brain washing 101.

I do my part as a husband and father, but I can only do so much, that is why the public arena is not the appropriate place for such actions, and shouldn't be.

I get where you're coming from, but as you said before, you and I don't agree. To me, it is a human rights issue. Gay people still mostly have a stigma attached to them, and people are bullied (sometimes violently) just for being gay. That's not ok. I know you believe it is a choice, but I still argue it is not. As I pointed out before, none of us choose to be heterosexual. We just are. Just like people who are gay do not choose to be gay. They just are. Aside from the dram queens and people who just want attention, why would anyone choose to be gay? Who in their right mind would willingly choose to adopt a lifestyle that they know will be more difficult than just being "normal"? I'd argue that nobody would do that if it were a choice. And that gets me back to the question I asked earlier (and others have asked before) that has never been answered. So if you can, please try to answer this question. Not with a bible verse, but your own thoughts/experiences. Did you at some point in your life choose to be heterosexual? Or, was it just innate and part of you? When you saw a beautiful woman, were you physically attracted to her, but when you saw a handsome man, did you not feel any sense of physical attraction? Was that a choice, or just part of your makeup? Similarly, did you make a conscious choice to be attracted to your wife? Did you first see her and think things like: her eyes are set the proper number of inches apart, her cheekbones are sufficiently prominent, her physical proportions (height, weight, etc) are acceptable, so I choose to be attracted to her? Or did you see her and just think, wow, she's beautiful? Can you choose to love or not to love?

My point is that there are reactions that we have that are innate within us. At least they are for me. As I said before, I can't pinpoint why I'm more attracted to brunettes than blondes, but I am. Always have been. It's just part of who I am/what I find attractive. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

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February 14th, 2014, 6:24 am
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
TDJ:
I understand your question and here is my best answer. Being heterosexual is the normal way of creation (humanity) because it is the way we procreate. If I were to take 100 homosexuals and put them on an island and instructed them to go and multiply without adoption, or surrogates, could they do it? No! It's a crude example, but it speaks straight to the point, it is not a natural lifestyle. In the process of reading through your question, and even just now the answer has come through in my mind. It isn't their PERSONAL choice, but the choice of humanity! Let me explain: When Adam and Eve sinned they brought upon all humanity the curse. Where we once had a complete relationship with God, they broke it by choosing something other than Him, and suffered the penalty. Now fast forward a few eons or more and you have descendants continue in the flesh. The further we move away from "ground zero" the more sinful we become. Having said that, humanity continues to reject God, and even have a full blown enmity towards him. By this choice to not believe, nor enter into a relationship with Him, they are making a choice to sin. That in turn opens them up to all kinds of perverted (different) lifestyle choices and penalties. It speaks to environment. But if a person, even a gay man or woman, choose to accept God as Lord and Savior, they enter into a relationship with Him. In that relationship, they learn and adapt their lives because they choose to. It's the same as being married to a woman and learning to live as a couple. So my statement about it being a personal choice wasn't exactly accurate and I didn't see it till just now. It is a choice that has been made for them, but they do have a choice in getting to know the one who wishes to know them deeper than any human can. Much of my experience with the Lord is quite personal and beyond words. Even if I wanted to tell you all of the details of our relationship, and how He interacts with me daily, 1. I wouldn't know where to start, and 2. I could not put it into words. This is why Christianity has been charged with the duty of going and making disciples of all men. Sadly, the church has chosen to follow a different model which isn't working, and is creating enemies instead of beloved brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not have a national stage, nor do I need one, but what I do have I try to use to the best of my ability. I interject and bring Christ into every environment I'm in, and try very hard to demonstrate Him to those whom I'm with all the time. Whether that's here, or in my daily life. I meet sinners all the time, in fact I know one personally (ME) and because I'm a sinner, I am able to understand the cost of that lifestyle, and able to empathize with those who suffer. It is then that I can make a choice to love whomever I meet, no matter who they are, or how they live, and try to make their life better. We all need, want, and desire love, and since HE first loved me, I am choosing to be a conduit of His love to those around me. I'm not perfect, but I'm trying. I hope that answers your question.


Would you check out the Christianity thread, I want to share something with y'all that I saw this morning about love, and a perspective on marriage that I did not see till this morning. And I don't wish to derail this thread any longer, thanks!

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February 14th, 2014, 7:31 am
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Post Re: Michael Sam, NFL draft prospect, announces he's gay
I hope he gets drafted by the packers

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February 24th, 2014, 3:23 am
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