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 Watkins scenario Pros/Cons 
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
The Legend wrote:

the only thing i know is that you arent being reasonable or rational when comparing situations. beckham may end up being a better player than ebron or he might not im really not sure at this point. titus young looked good as a rookie, that ended up meaning nothing. herman moore did next to nothing but became a big time star. beckham is being afforded an opportunity that ebron doesnt have with cruz being injured and the team falling on its face out the gate. on the other hand, ebron being at best the 4th option for looks on a team in serious contention with a guy having a breakout season and a future HOF WR who is at least top 5 at the position. the lions dont need to use ebron as much as the giants now need to use beckham. you re judging it way too early, 9 games does not make a career. your point about what the coaches and organization said after the draft are equally meaningless - all teams hype up there draft picks afterwards particularly first rounders. nobody is claiming to have any inside information about the "Ebron situation." its actually a good situation: the lions have a young talented, highly rated player that they would love to involve more in the game plans and despite him having minimal at best production the team has cruised to 7-2 and the offense has come up with game winning drives 3 weeks in a row without him. isnt that a good sign of things to come when they start figuring out how to involve him? kind of like a midseason acquisition? or it would it be better if everyone ahead of him went down and they re forced to have the rookie be the focus of the passing game and carry the offense? at least then you would have some stats to be excited about.



Legend, the bolded part is why many (including me) think the pick was not very good. Ebron was never going to be the first or second option in this offense, and would rarely be the third option with the receiving backs in our stable. And while I agree that judging HIM based on his output thus far may be premature, it is comparing the pick to what was at our disposal that is being argued. Odell Beckham would have had a great chance to shine here as well, with CJ out the games he was. And as I have mentioned in a previous post, how many times do the Lions feature a two TE set to pass with, versus a three WR set? I never see us throwing in a three TE set. Last season people complained, including you, about the poor quality of depth at receiver, not tight end. Last year with CJ and Nate hurt, our receivers failed to step up and produce. And Stafford, quite frankly, couldn't find them in those times that they did get open. Having Beckham now would give him time to acclimate to the NFL, and give us someone who has the talent to possibly step into the number one receiver role if CJ gets seriously hurt, or at least serve as a quality second receiver if Tate can assume the #1 role. Green Bay should show that you can never have enough quality receivers. Despite having some really good starters, they kept drafting good receivers high (second or third round).

That's not to say the Lions should draft a WR high every year. But they had a chance to get a player they would use more often in the passing game, in support of their multi-million dollar quarterback, than the guy they ended up taking. If you take him 10th overall, by God you use him. If Lombardi isn't willing to do that, then Caldwell or Mayhew should b!tch slap him into understanding that fact. With Beckham and Kyle Fuller still on the board, both capable of filling what amounted to greater needs, picking Ebron STILL makes no freakin' sense.

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November 17th, 2014, 7:18 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
The whole problem with how the pick went down was the Millen drooling over Mike Williams type move where they ran to the podium. There was no way they were paying the price the Bills paid for Watkins but they could have grabbed Martin to bolster the O-line or slid back and I don't want to hear there wasn't any offers and landed Jordan Matthews. Heck I may have even taken him without a move back seeing how I liked him as much if not more than Sammy Watkins. Matthews would have came on the team as at least the second best route runner and was the ideal WR to groom as Calvin's replacement.


November 17th, 2014, 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:

the only thing i know is that you arent being reasonable or rational when comparing situations. beckham may end up being a better player than ebron or he might not im really not sure at this point. titus young looked good as a rookie, that ended up meaning nothing. herman moore did next to nothing but became a big time star. beckham is being afforded an opportunity that ebron doesnt have with cruz being injured and the team falling on its face out the gate. on the other hand, ebron being at best the 4th option for looks on a team in serious contention with a guy having a breakout season and a future HOF WR who is at least top 5 at the position. the lions dont need to use ebron as much as the giants now need to use beckham. you re judging it way too early, 9 games does not make a career. your point about what the coaches and organization said after the draft are equally meaningless - all teams hype up there draft picks afterwards particularly first rounders. nobody is claiming to have any inside information about the "Ebron situation." its actually a good situation: the lions have a young talented, highly rated player that they would love to involve more in the game plans and despite him having minimal at best production the team has cruised to 7-2 and the offense has come up with game winning drives 3 weeks in a row without him. isnt that a good sign of things to come when they start figuring out how to involve him? kind of like a midseason acquisition? or it would it be better if everyone ahead of him went down and they re forced to have the rookie be the focus of the passing game and carry the offense? at least then you would have some stats to be excited about.




Legend, the bolded part is why many (including me) think the pick was not very good. Ebron was never going to be the first or second option in this offense, and would rarely be the third option with the receiving backs in our stable. And while I agree that judging HIM based on his output thus far may be premature, it is comparing the pick to what was at our disposal that is being argued. Odell Beckham would have had a great chance to shine here as well, with CJ out the games he was. And as I have mentioned in a previous post, how many times do the Lions feature a two TE set to pass with, versus a three WR set? I never see us throwing in a three TE set. Last season people complained, including you, about the poor quality of depth at receiver, not tight end. Last year with CJ and Nate hurt, our receivers failed to step up and produce. And Stafford, quite frankly, couldn't find them in those times that they did get open. Having Beckham now would give him time to acclimate to the NFL, and give us someone who has the talent to possibly step into the number one receiver role if CJ gets seriously hurt, or at least serve as a quality second receiver if Tate can assume the #1 role. Green Bay should show that you can never have enough quality receivers. Despite having some really good starters, they kept drafting good receivers high (second or third round).

That's not to say the Lions should draft a WR high every year. But they had a chance to get a player they would use more often in the passing game, in support of their multi-million dollar quarterback, than the guy they ended up taking. If you take him 10th overall, by God you use him. If Lombardi isn't willing to do that, then Caldwell or Mayhew should b!tch slap him into understanding that fact. With Beckham and Kyle Fuller still on the board, both capable of filling what amounted to greater needs, picking Ebron STILL makes no freakin' sense.


beckham may very well end up better but again i think ebron will be the Lions No 1 TE and be on the field pretty much every down at some point though maybe not this season. i dont see ebron as a No 3 TE and in no way would i be comfortable with Fauria and Pettigrew alone. I was very much against the pettigrew re signing. im not saying ebron is the pick i wouldve made but i still have no reason to think that ebron will be a bust based on what ive seen. if it was me, i would have taken taylor lewan who i ve thought all along is a better player than any of the top tackles in the past 2 drafts. people have been really high on joeckel, fisher, matthews, robinson, lane johnson, etc all these guys but watching lewan week in week out i knew he was a surefire prototype at left tackle and he would ve been my guy knowing that golden tate was already signed. looking at it now retrospectively, i think it would be hard to make a case for taking a WR at that pick not named evans or watkins given how some of the WRs later in the draft have looked like excellent values.


November 17th, 2014, 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:

the only thing i know is that you arent being reasonable or rational when comparing situations. beckham may end up being a better player than ebron or he might not im really not sure at this point. titus young looked good as a rookie, that ended up meaning nothing. herman moore did next to nothing but became a big time star. beckham is being afforded an opportunity that ebron doesnt have with cruz being injured and the team falling on its face out the gate. on the other hand, ebron being at best the 4th option for looks on a team in serious contention with a guy having a breakout season and a future HOF WR who is at least top 5 at the position. the lions dont need to use ebron as much as the giants now need to use beckham. you re judging it way too early, 9 games does not make a career. your point about what the coaches and organization said after the draft are equally meaningless - all teams hype up there draft picks afterwards particularly first rounders. nobody is claiming to have any inside information about the "Ebron situation." its actually a good situation: the lions have a young talented, highly rated player that they would love to involve more in the game plans and despite him having minimal at best production the team has cruised to 7-2 and the offense has come up with game winning drives 3 weeks in a row without him. isnt that a good sign of things to come when they start figuring out how to involve him? kind of like a midseason acquisition? or it would it be better if everyone ahead of him went down and they re forced to have the rookie be the focus of the passing game and carry the offense? at least then you would have some stats to be excited about.




Legend, the bolded part is why many (including me) think the pick was not very good. Ebron was never going to be the first or second option in this offense, and would rarely be the third option with the receiving backs in our stable. And while I agree that judging HIM based on his output thus far may be premature, it is comparing the pick to what was at our disposal that is being argued. Odell Beckham would have had a great chance to shine here as well, with CJ out the games he was. And as I have mentioned in a previous post, how many times do the Lions feature a two TE set to pass with, versus a three WR set? I never see us throwing in a three TE set. Last season people complained, including you, about the poor quality of depth at receiver, not tight end. Last year with CJ and Nate hurt, our receivers failed to step up and produce. And Stafford, quite frankly, couldn't find them in those times that they did get open. Having Beckham now would give him time to acclimate to the NFL, and give us someone who has the talent to possibly step into the number one receiver role if CJ gets seriously hurt, or at least serve as a quality second receiver if Tate can assume the #1 role. Green Bay should show that you can never have enough quality receivers. Despite having some really good starters, they kept drafting good receivers high (second or third round).

That's not to say the Lions should draft a WR high every year. But they had a chance to get a player they would use more often in the passing game, in support of their multi-million dollar quarterback, than the guy they ended up taking. If you take him 10th overall, by God you use him. If Lombardi isn't willing to do that, then Caldwell or Mayhew should b!tch slap him into understanding that fact. With Beckham and Kyle Fuller still on the board, both capable of filling what amounted to greater needs, picking Ebron STILL makes no freakin' sense.


beckham may very well end up better but again i think ebron will be the Lions No 1 TE and be on the field pretty much every down at some point though maybe not this season. i dont see ebron as a No 3 TE and in no way would i be comfortable with Fauria and Pettigrew alone. I was very much against the pettigrew re signing. im not saying ebron is the pick i wouldve made but i still have no reason to think that ebron will be a bust based on what ive seen. if it was me, i would have taken taylor lewan who i ve thought all along is a better player than any of the top tackles in the past 2 drafts. people have been really high on joeckel, fisher, matthews, robinson, lane johnson, etc all these guys but watching lewan week in week out i knew he was a surefire prototype at left tackle and he would ve been my guy knowing that golden tate was already signed. looking at it now retrospectively, i think it would be hard to make a case for taking a WR at that pick not named evans or watkins given how some of the WRs later in the draft have looked like excellent values.


As I read at the time, Pettigrew's contract was structured so it would be relatively easy for us to cut bait with him after each year. I don't think it was wrong to want some stability at the TE spot. What you might see is Pettigrew gone after this year, Ebron the #1, and a blocking tight end brought in (or Michael Williams re-converted).

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November 18th, 2014, 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
The Legend wrote:

beckham may very well end up better but again i think ebron will be the Lions No 1 TE and be on the field pretty much every down at some point though maybe not this season. i dont see ebron as a No 3 TE and in no way would i be comfortable with Fauria and Pettigrew alone. I was very much against the pettigrew re signing. im not saying ebron is the pick i wouldve made but i still have no reason to think that ebron will be a bust based on what ive seen. if it was me, i would have taken taylor lewan who i ve thought all along is a better player than any of the top tackles in the past 2 drafts. people have been really high on joeckel, fisher, matthews, robinson, lane johnson, etc all these guys but watching lewan week in week out i knew he was a surefire prototype at left tackle and he would ve been my guy knowing that golden tate was already signed. looking at it now retrospectively, i think it would be hard to make a case for taking a WR at that pick not named evans or watkins given how some of the WRs later in the draft have looked like excellent values.


I am not calling Ebron a bust, never did. And I agree that he will eventually be the Lions number one tight end, if nothing else but due his contract. However, it is about the selection we have been talking, not necessarily Ebron as a player. He has been limited by injuries, and by the scheme. The entire position of tight end has been all but ignored in this offense, which is a mystery since Lombardi came from a team that features its tight end.

That said, in retrospect Lewan would have been a very good pick as well. I didn't feel we needed another starting tackle. Who would have predicted Waddle would be so often hurt this season? For a rookie, undrafted or not, he played well last season. And I wasn't a big fan of the Pettigrew re-signing, but he is quite possibly the best blocking tight end in the game, and last season he actually finished the season strong. Now, he's nothing more than a small tackle. They would have been better off leaving Michael Williams as a TE, using him and allow Pettigrew to walk in FA. But who knew Lombardi would be such a myopic OC? It still comes down to this: Ebron, Fuller, Lewan and Beckham are on the board. We have two tight ends returning from last season, one newly re-signed, and both did pretty decently. We have an offensive line returning that protected their quarterback in 2013 pretty well, and opened running lanes. We have a young corner who the team feels is ready to step up as a starter. We have a newly signed FA receiver to start opposite our star receiver, but one who has been showing his age as of late in regards to injuries. Our offense has a young QB with a cannon arm. And behind those two starting receivers, we have not too much to speak of. In this modern age of football, depth at WR is as important as depth at CB. Teams used to carry just four receivers on the roster, and maybe four corners. Now, it is often five or six receivers on the roster, and most teams carry at least nine DBs, most often consisting of five corners and four safeties. Based on all that, getting a TE seems a foolish move. Unless he's the next Jimmy Graham, or the next Antonio Gates, or the second coming of Charlie Sanders, he's not worth that high a pick. And despite his limited exposure in the NFL this season, I just don't see Ebron as reaching those levels of production. He's not Jimmy Graham, he's not Gates, he's not Tony Gonzalez. And he likely never will be. Having watched him in college, I never saw him really pop out like that.

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November 19th, 2014, 7:52 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:

beckham may very well end up better but again i think ebron will be the Lions No 1 TE and be on the field pretty much every down at some point though maybe not this season. i dont see ebron as a No 3 TE and in no way would i be comfortable with Fauria and Pettigrew alone. I was very much against the pettigrew re signing. im not saying ebron is the pick i wouldve made but i still have no reason to think that ebron will be a bust based on what ive seen. if it was me, i would have taken taylor lewan who i ve thought all along is a better player than any of the top tackles in the past 2 drafts. people have been really high on joeckel, fisher, matthews, robinson, lane johnson, etc all these guys but watching lewan week in week out i knew he was a surefire prototype at left tackle and he would ve been my guy knowing that golden tate was already signed. looking at it now retrospectively, i think it would be hard to make a case for taking a WR at that pick not named evans or watkins given how some of the WRs later in the draft have looked like excellent values.


I am not calling Ebron a bust, never did. And I agree that he will eventually be the Lions number one tight end, if nothing else but due his contract. However, it is about the selection we have been talking, not necessarily Ebron as a player. He has been limited by injuries, and by the scheme. The entire position of tight end has been all but ignored in this offense, which is a mystery since Lombardi came from a team that features its tight end.

That said, in retrospect Lewan would have been a very good pick as well. I didn't feel we needed another starting tackle. Who would have predicted Waddle would be so often hurt this season? For a rookie, undrafted or not, he played well last season. And I wasn't a big fan of the Pettigrew re-signing, but he is quite possibly the best blocking tight end in the game, and last season he actually finished the season strong. Now, he's nothing more than a small tackle. They would have been better off leaving Michael Williams as a TE, using him and allow Pettigrew to walk in FA. But who knew Lombardi would be such a myopic OC? It still comes down to this: Ebron, Fuller, Lewan and Beckham are on the board. We have two tight ends returning from last season, one newly re-signed, and both did pretty decently. We have an offensive line returning that protected their quarterback in 2013 pretty well, and opened running lanes. We have a young corner who the team feels is ready to step up as a starter. We have a newly signed FA receiver to start opposite our star receiver, but one who has been showing his age as of late in regards to injuries. Our offense has a young QB with a cannon arm. And behind those two starting receivers, we have not too much to speak of. In this modern age of football, depth at WR is as important as depth at CB. Teams used to carry just four receivers on the roster, and maybe four corners. Now, it is often five or six receivers on the roster, and most teams carry at least nine DBs, most often consisting of five corners and four safeties. Based on all that, getting a TE seems a foolish move. Unless he's the next Jimmy Graham, or the next Antonio Gates, or the second coming of Charlie Sanders, he's not worth that high a pick. And despite his limited exposure in the NFL this season, I just don't see Ebron as reaching those levels of production. He's not Jimmy Graham, he's not Gates, he's not Tony Gonzalez. And he likely never will be. Having watched him in college, I never saw him really pop out like that.


I didnt see Ebron that much in college but when I did I thought he looked like he could be a Julius Thomas type of player. I dont think he s Graham, Gonzalez or Gronk but I think he could be close to Gates and Thomas. Still if I were to wonder who has more of a chance to be the best in the league at his position bw Ebron or Beckham I would have to say Ebron. I dont particularly like the way Lombardi is using Ebron with mostly short crossing routes over the middle or throws out into the flat. I thought they would use him more to try and split the safeties or split a safety and a corner with vertical seam routes but either we re not seeing it or Stafford isnt. Its really hard to make a firm judgment on Lombardi, there have been some obvious terrible play calls but also the offensive line has been epically bad. Sims, Warford, Raiola, RT have all been below average performers.


November 20th, 2014, 2:48 am
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:

beckham may very well end up better but again i think ebron will be the Lions No 1 TE and be on the field pretty much every down at some point though maybe not this season. i dont see ebron as a No 3 TE and in no way would i be comfortable with Fauria and Pettigrew alone. I was very much against the pettigrew re signing. im not saying ebron is the pick i wouldve made but i still have no reason to think that ebron will be a bust based on what ive seen. if it was me, i would have taken taylor lewan who i ve thought all along is a better player than any of the top tackles in the past 2 drafts. people have been really high on joeckel, fisher, matthews, robinson, lane johnson, etc all these guys but watching lewan week in week out i knew he was a surefire prototype at left tackle and he would ve been my guy knowing that golden tate was already signed. looking at it now retrospectively, i think it would be hard to make a case for taking a WR at that pick not named evans or watkins given how some of the WRs later in the draft have looked like excellent values.


I am not calling Ebron a bust, never did. And I agree that he will eventually be the Lions number one tight end, if nothing else but due his contract. However, it is about the selection we have been talking, not necessarily Ebron as a player. He has been limited by injuries, and by the scheme. The entire position of tight end has been all but ignored in this offense, which is a mystery since Lombardi came from a team that features its tight end.

That said, in retrospect Lewan would have been a very good pick as well. I didn't feel we needed another starting tackle. Who would have predicted Waddle would be so often hurt this season? For a rookie, undrafted or not, he played well last season. And I wasn't a big fan of the Pettigrew re-signing, but he is quite possibly the best blocking tight end in the game, and last season he actually finished the season strong. Now, he's nothing more than a small tackle. They would have been better off leaving Michael Williams as a TE, using him and allow Pettigrew to walk in FA. But who knew Lombardi would be such a myopic OC? It still comes down to this: Ebron, Fuller, Lewan and Beckham are on the board. We have two tight ends returning from last season, one newly re-signed, and both did pretty decently. We have an offensive line returning that protected their quarterback in 2013 pretty well, and opened running lanes. We have a young corner who the team feels is ready to step up as a starter. We have a newly signed FA receiver to start opposite our star receiver, but one who has been showing his age as of late in regards to injuries. Our offense has a young QB with a cannon arm. And behind those two starting receivers, we have not too much to speak of. In this modern age of football, depth at WR is as important as depth at CB. Teams used to carry just four receivers on the roster, and maybe four corners. Now, it is often five or six receivers on the roster, and most teams carry at least nine DBs, most often consisting of five corners and four safeties. Based on all that, getting a TE seems a foolish move. Unless he's the next Jimmy Graham, or the next Antonio Gates, or the second coming of Charlie Sanders, he's not worth that high a pick. And despite his limited exposure in the NFL this season, I just don't see Ebron as reaching those levels of production. He's not Jimmy Graham, he's not Gates, he's not Tony Gonzalez. And he likely never will be. Having watched him in college, I never saw him really pop out like that.


I didnt see Ebron that much in college but when I did I thought he looked like he could be a Julius Thomas type of player. I dont think he s Graham, Gonzalez or Gronk but I think he could be close to Gates and Thomas. Still if I were to wonder who has more of a chance to be the best in the league at his position bw Ebron or Beckham I would have to say Ebron. I dont particularly like the way Lombardi is using Ebron with mostly short crossing routes over the middle or throws out into the flat. I thought they would use him more to try and split the safeties or split a safety and a corner with vertical seam routes but either we re not seeing it or Stafford isnt. Its really hard to make a firm judgment on Lombardi, there have been some obvious terrible play calls but also the offensive line has been epically bad. Sims, Warford, Raiola, RT have all been below average performers.


I can see your point. In regards to position alone, Ebron stands a better chance of being considered better at the position than Beckham. But I'm not worried about that. I am more concerned with who would be better for this franchise in regards to producing yards and scores. It's the same as those people who say, 'They picked the third best offensive tackle, but could have had the best guard.' It doesn't matter. The third best tackle may be leaps and bounds better than the highest rated guard. And the third tackle selected doesn't necessarily make him the third best player at the position. It makes him a player the previous two teams elected not to pick. But how many times has the player taken later at a position outperformed those selected ahead of him? Happens quite often.

Regardless, the Lions got who they got, and here's to hoping he begins to produce and Lombardi starts to use like he should.

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November 20th, 2014, 6:01 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
yeah, i hope the pick works out too. i would just add that people should consider if the drafting teams were flipped. Beckham comes to the Lions and gets touches behind Johnson, Tate, Bell and Bush/Riddick and Ebron goes to the Giants and becomes there top TE receiver. Give him the production of Larry Donnel who has 44catches-437yards and 6 TDs. Give Beckham the production of Jeremy Ross. I guarantee we d have people on here saying we should have taken Ebron not Beckham. Have to consider the situation each player is in - who he s competing for targets, what portion of the games are being played in garbage time, etc


November 20th, 2014, 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
The Legend wrote:
yeah, i hope the pick works out too. i would just add that people should consider if the drafting teams were flipped. Beckham comes to the Lions and gets touches behind Johnson, Tate, Bell and Bush/Riddick and Ebron goes to the Giants and becomes there top TE receiver. Give him the production of Larry Donnel who has 44catches-437yards and 6 TDs. Give Beckham the production of Jeremy Ross. I guarantee we d have people on here saying we should have taken Ebron not Beckham. Have to consider the situation each player is in - who he s competing for targets, what portion of the games are being played in garbage time, etc


Funny, after today's game against New England there are posters on this forum that ARE calling Ebron a bust because of his dropped passes. Wasn't me. And if his passes dropped make him a bust, what does that make Calvin? He dropped a couple that he should have had, and this isn't the first game this season he's done that.

Just makes me laugh.

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November 23rd, 2014, 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
yeah, i hope the pick works out too. i would just add that people should consider if the drafting teams were flipped. Beckham comes to the Lions and gets touches behind Johnson, Tate, Bell and Bush/Riddick and Ebron goes to the Giants and becomes there top TE receiver. Give him the production of Larry Donnel who has 44catches-437yards and 6 TDs. Give Beckham the production of Jeremy Ross. I guarantee we d have people on here saying we should have taken Ebron not Beckham. Have to consider the situation each player is in - who he s competing for targets, what portion of the games are being played in garbage time, etc


Funny, after today's game against New England there are posters on this forum that ARE calling Ebron a bust because of his dropped passes. Wasn't me. And if his passes dropped make him a bust, what does that make Calvin? He dropped a couple that he should have had, and this isn't the first game this season he's done that.

Just makes me laugh.


he was pretty brutal today but so was everyone wearing blue and silver


November 24th, 2014, 12:01 am
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
yeah, i hope the pick works out too. i would just add that people should consider if the drafting teams were flipped. Beckham comes to the Lions and gets touches behind Johnson, Tate, Bell and Bush/Riddick and Ebron goes to the Giants and becomes there top TE receiver. Give him the production of Larry Donnel who has 44catches-437yards and 6 TDs. Give Beckham the production of Jeremy Ross. I guarantee we d have people on here saying we should have taken Ebron not Beckham. Have to consider the situation each player is in - who he s competing for targets, what portion of the games are being played in garbage time, etc


Funny, after today's game against New England there are posters on this forum that ARE calling Ebron a bust because of his dropped passes. Wasn't me. And if his passes dropped make him a bust, what does that make Calvin? He dropped a couple that he should have had, and this isn't the first game this season he's done that.

Just makes me laugh.


Calvin history is that of a HOF receiver. Ebron's drops just reinforced what we already knew about his histroy coming out of college - he drops the ball. In addition, he is a terrible blocker. Not a good combo for a top ten pick!

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November 24th, 2014, 12:13 am
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
yeah, i hope the pick works out too. i would just add that people should consider if the drafting teams were flipped. Beckham comes to the Lions and gets touches behind Johnson, Tate, Bell and Bush/Riddick and Ebron goes to the Giants and becomes there top TE receiver. Give him the production of Larry Donnel who has 44catches-437yards and 6 TDs. Give Beckham the production of Jeremy Ross. I guarantee we d have people on here saying we should have taken Ebron not Beckham. Have to consider the situation each player is in - who he s competing for targets, what portion of the games are being played in garbage time, etc


Funny, after today's game against New England there are posters on this forum that ARE calling Ebron a bust because of his dropped passes. Wasn't me. And if his passes dropped make him a bust, what does that make Calvin? He dropped a couple that he should have had, and this isn't the first game this season he's done that.

Just makes me laugh.


Calvin history is that of a HOF receiver. Ebron's drops just reinforced what we already knew about his histroy coming out of college - he drops the ball. In addition, he is a terrible blocker. Not a good combo for a top ten pick!


Not when we could have had and SHOULD have had Beckham, who put up more yards YESTERDAY than Ebron has all season. But WAIT, Ebron is going to be the "Jimmy Graham" of this offense.


November 24th, 2014, 8:43 am
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
yeah, i hope the pick works out too. i would just add that people should consider if the drafting teams were flipped. Beckham comes to the Lions and gets touches behind Johnson, Tate, Bell and Bush/Riddick and Ebron goes to the Giants and becomes there top TE receiver. Give him the production of Larry Donnel who has 44catches-437yards and 6 TDs. Give Beckham the production of Jeremy Ross. I guarantee we d have people on here saying we should have taken Ebron not Beckham. Have to consider the situation each player is in - who he s competing for targets, what portion of the games are being played in garbage time, etc


Funny, after today's game against New England there are posters on this forum that ARE calling Ebron a bust because of his dropped passes. Wasn't me. And if his passes dropped make him a bust, what does that make Calvin? He dropped a couple that he should have had, and this isn't the first game this season he's done that.

Just makes me laugh.


Calvin history is that of a HOF receiver. Ebron's drops just reinforced what we already knew about his histroy coming out of college - he drops the ball. In addition, he is a terrible blocker. Not a good combo for a top ten pick!


Nobody is questioning Calvin's career. It's about peoples reaction to just one game. If you are going to bash one player for dropping a couple passes, then bash the other guys who do the same thing in that one game. The NFL is a 'what have you done for me lately' business. Calvin has had a great career. Wonderful. Now quit dropping passes.

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November 25th, 2014, 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
I am not in any way comparing Ebron to Tony Gonzalez.

But, Pat Kirwan was talking about Ebron because a caller called him a bust today. And pat went on to say that when Tony Gonzalez was a rookie, he had and lot of drops also. But, that offseason Gonzalez read a whole lot of books about personal success and visited a bunch of highly successful people. Both athletes and non-athletes and asked them how they overcame their adversities. The point about the comments was that Ebron should be proactive on his own merit and take the initiative to find an answer to his troubles this off season.

Like Slay has done with his working out with Rod Woodson, and we can see the improvement this year, Ebron should seek out the help from someone like Gonzalez and see if that will help him be better next year.


November 25th, 2014, 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Watkins scenario Pros/Cons
BillySims wrote:
I am not in any way comparing Ebron to Tony Gonzalez.

But, Pat Kirwan was talking about Ebron because a caller called him a bust today. And pat went on to say that when Tony Gonzalez was a rookie, he had and lot of drops also. But, that offseason Gonzalez read a whole lot of books about personal success and visited a bunch of highly successful people. Both athletes and non-athletes and asked them how they overcame their adversities. The point about the comments was that Ebron should be proactive on his own merit and take the initiative to find an answer to his troubles this off season.

Like Slay has done with his working out with Rod Woodson, and we can see the improvement this year, Ebron should seek out the help from someone like Gonzalez and see if that will help him be better next year.


Gonzo played bball in college in addition to football, he didn't really start concentrating on football full time until entering the NFL. He played on a very avg Cal team in football playing for Mooch but his bball team were good and made the sweet 16. Ebron to Gonzo is a poor comparison IMO. That said, he does need to work on the drops. My concern is that this was a widely known issue with him in college, shouldn't the coaching staff focused on this with him since May?

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November 26th, 2014, 9:36 am
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