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 With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebron 
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
kdsberman wrote:
The more I think of it the more I understand the pick. I didn't like any of the corners at 10 and thought the OTs would have sat for a year or two.

Makes u wonder though...allenslions said no Ebron. Also said no chance of Barr yet it's being reported he would have been the pick. What happened to Beckham??



i think tate is too similar to beckham for that to have made sense. but i do like beckham and think he ll be better than tate eventuallys


May 9th, 2014, 11:41 am
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
Good post, Legend.

I don't understand why so few people realized how big a need receiver was. CJ and Tate alone are not enough.


May 9th, 2014, 11:42 am
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
I wonder with Ebron as the TE maybe we can see Pett moved around even more between an inline blocker and H back. Gives a lot more ability to line up in different formations with the same personnel given Bush can also be split out wide as a WR.


May 9th, 2014, 11:55 am
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Roster Issues: Does it make sense from a roster standpoint...
1) We just gave Pett a 4-year deal
2) You have Fauria as the red zone threat
3) We drafted Michael Williams last year (although more a blocking TE)
4) The Lions now have 6 TEs on the roster with Thompson and Veldman as well
5) Lots of starter and depth needs at other positions


Pett isnt a reliable player, particularly in the receiving game. He ll still play a lot but going to him in the passing game is going to become less and less frequent as it did last season - funny how people thought he was playing better that way...Fauria is still a red zone threat/3rd TE but he lacks speed and runs poor routes. They cant rely on him for much more than red zone. Michael Williams hasnt played a down in the NFL. It d be great if he makes the team but his spot isnt etched in stone.

Dont forget the WR position where Ebron quickly jumps into the top 3 with Calvin and Tate. You have to remember this kid is a receiver lining up at TE and also that the Lions busted on Broyles and Young, plus had Burleson crumble into pieces and Scheffler deteriorate. So they lost 4 key pieces for the passing game and have now added just 2 back. This was the biggest need on the team - Durham, Ogletree, other nameless drivel can rightfully assume end of the roster spots like they would on the other 31 NFL teams.

Quote:
Coach Speak: What has the coaching staff been saying...
1) We value guys with great hands (Ebron has 11% drop rate - ugh, has concentration issues like another Lions former #1 pick at TE)
2) He was our 2nd highest rated offensive player (really, OK Watkins first but Ebron ahead of Greg Robinson?)
3) He is a playmaker, I would expect a playmaker to average more than 2.6 TDs per season over 3 years in college


IMO, Ebron is a much more fluid athlete than Mike Evans. Greg Robinson was the 3rd best OT, I dont find him impressive. He has really poor technique in the run game and he s a project with upside rather than a ready made player like Matthews and Lewan - who IMO are better overall athletes also. No surprise that STL is planning to play him at guard. Back to Ebron, dropping routine balls I agree is a big concern but he can make some really tough catches and get some extra yards once he has the ball.


Quote:
Vernon Davis: He is being compared to the last top 10 TE taken...
1) Speed: 40-yard dash, Ebron 4.6 vs. Davis 4.38
2) Explosion: vertical leap, Ebron 32" vs. Davis 42"
3) Power: bench, Ebron 24 reps vs. Davis 33


Very few compare favorably to Davis' workouts but it doesnt matter bc Ebron is more fluid, has better hands and comparing at the same age runs better routes. He ll be better earlier in his career than Davis at the same timepoints.

Quote:
Jimmy Graham: We will use him like Jimmy Graham...
1) Graham's measurables were also much better than Ebron's
2) Is Stafford suddenly going to start throwing picture perfect passes like Brees
3) Pick reminds me of a scheme fit like when Marinelli came in and needed that WLB to mirror the Bucs (Pick 9, Ernie Sims)

Onto round 2 fellas!


I dont think he ll be Jimmy Graham either but he s a masively upgraded target for Stafford over whats been out there the past two seasons besides Calvin. Dont kid yourself about that.


Pett was pretty darn reliable last year, in both passing and blocking. Compare his drop rate to Ebron last year if you think Eric is more reliable. Ebron drops a lot of passes and his blocking looks pathetic.

I'm all for giving Staff weapons, but I'm even more for keeping him healthy. Take Pett off the field and put Ebron on and DC know we are passing, know they can easily beat him at the line, will dial up blitzes and try to crush our QB. I don't want to see Dan O on the field next year - do you?

Everyone keeps talking about moving him to a WR3 spot, however, you don't take a guy that you are going to switch positions with in the top 10 of the draft. BTW - what is the deepest position in the draft this year? Oh yeah, WR...

Despite issues at WR that you mentioned, we had the #3 passing offense in the league last season - yet this is what we addressed last night. Remember the 2nd half collapse last year? We held a lead in the 4th quarter in every game but one of those and lost them all.

The Lions needed to address two primary concerns this year, turnovers on offense (and I'm not talking TEs here because they weren't a problem) and defense. We just used a top 10 pick in the draft and he does neither.

If Ebron was an elite athlete, I'd be OK with the pick. Again, lacks great speed and explosiveness. You say he is fluid, that's good because I threw up some fluids when his name was announced! :lol:

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May 9th, 2014, 12:16 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
line him and pett up in 2 te sets and you have the ability to move him to the slot as a 3rd reciever going no huddle and keeping the base defense on the field. all you nay sayers will be bragging up the calvin and ebron duo in the next couple years. go get your ebron jerseys boys and just be thankful we didnt end up with mike evans, because we all know how the big mikes work out in detroit. Ebron truly is the 2nd best wr in the draft behind only sammy watkins


May 9th, 2014, 12:31 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
Addressing misconceptions of the Eric Ebron pick

I agree with a lot of this.


May 9th, 2014, 12:58 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
Pablo wrote:
OK, I've tried to let the pick set in a bit by now. I can see better how they might use a player like Ebron. Honestly, I probably would have had issues with almost any player they would have taken at 10 and really liked the trade down option this year. I personally didn't like Barr. I like Donald there, but I think many would have had issues with another DT. The DBs, IMO would have been a reach. I'll give Mayhew some benefit of the doubt with his BPA, let's see how Ebron looks in the offense.

But with all that said, I still have a number of concerns...

Roster Issues: Does it make sense from a roster standpoint...
1) We just gave Pett a 4-year deal
2) You have Fauria as the red zone threat
3) We drafted Michael Williams last year (although more a blocking TE)
4) The Lions now have 6 TEs on the roster with Thompson and Veldman as well
5) Lots of starter and depth needs at other positions

Coach Speak: What has the coaching staff been saying...
1) We value guys with great hands (Ebron has 11% drop rate - ugh, has concentration issues like another Lions former #1 pick at TE)
2) He was our 2nd highest rated offensive player (really, OK Watkins first but Ebron ahead of Greg Robinson?)
3) He is a playmaker, I would expect a playmaker to average more than 2.6 TDs per season over 3 years in college

Vernon Davis: He is being compared to the last top 10 TE taken...
1) Speed: 40-yard dash, Ebron 4.6 vs. Davis 4.38
2) Explosion: vertical leap, Ebron 32" vs. Davis 42"
3) Power: bench, Ebron 24 reps vs. Davis 33

Jimmy Graham: We will use him like Jimmy Graham...
1) Graham's measurables were also much better than Ebron's
2) Is Stafford suddenly going to start throwing picture perfect passes like Brees
3) Pick reminds me of a scheme fit like when Marinelli came in and needed that WLB to mirror the Bucs (Pick 9, Ernie Sims)

Onto round 2 fellas!


I already hated the pick. Now, after reading this, I feel like vomiting all over Mayhew.


May 9th, 2014, 1:55 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
This is the most important part of that article, IMO:

Quote:
Going along with the "bigger needs" argument is the misconception that the Lions are fine on offense while in desperate need on defense. Never mind that there are still six rounds in the draft left to address the other side of the ball, the notion that the Lions offense is "fine" is a bit puzzling. Yes, the Lions racked up a ton of yards last year, but their scoring was absolutely terrible considering those yards.

As noted by Reno09 in the comments section, the Lions offense was actually less efficient than the defense last year, according to the advanced statistics of Football Outsiders. Sure, the defense needs fixing too, but the offense was not where it needed to be.

Also, as I noted earlier in the week, the Lions are actually spending a considerable amount more on defense in 2014. The illusion that the Lions overspend on offensive toys is just that: an illusion (Michael).


May 9th, 2014, 2:21 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
regularjoe12 wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
The more I think of it the more I understand the pick. I didn't like any of the corners at 10 and thought the OTs would have sat for a year or two.

Makes u wonder though...allenslions said no Ebron. Also said no chance of Barr yet it's being reported he would have been the pick. What happened to Beckham??


I stayed out of the AllensLions conversations for a reason. If you look at some of his older posts you will see the accuracy of his predictions are very VERY low, exspecially for someone who is supposed to have insider knowledge. The draft is a crap shoot, and only GM's have any real knowledge of whats going to happen, but so far this year all his predicitions have been strike outs, and thats pretty much on par with those he has made in the past. He left the message board when WJB called him out last year. im still waiting for him to prove WJB wrong...


Think about it. If he really is a scout for the Lions, isn't it possible that when his scouting is done and the board is set, that the Lions send him and other scouts out to spread a bunch of mis-information? They answer question with fallacies and we drink it up and spread it through word of mouth.


May 9th, 2014, 3:51 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
One thing I do like about this time of year, all the great armchair GMs that show up lol :lol:

WalterFootball.com wrote:
Position Review: Tight Ends

Tight end is one of the most talented positions in the 2014 NFL Draft class during the early rounds. There is elite talent with some rare prospects. In most years, the top-four tight ends from this class would be the No. 1 tight end prospect. The 2013 class didn't have the elite talent that this class does, but the 2013 group had good depth.

If you were to merge the two classes, I think Eifert and Ertz would be around the same level as Amaro. As prospects, they aren't as good as Ebron or Seferian-Jenkins in my opinion. Escobar and McDonald would go behind Niklas and ahead of Grimble. Same with Kelce. Jordan Reed could end up being one of the best steals from last year's draft, and he should have gone higher. Fiedorowicz, Jensen and Lynch are all about equal to Sims and Toilolo.

Safest Pick: Eric Ebron, North Carolina
This was a tough call because I believe that both Ebron and Seferian-Jenkins are safe picks. I went with Ebron because the NFL is a passing-driven league and Ebron is one of the best receiving tight ends to enter the NFL in years. He's the best receiving prospect since Rob Gronkowski and Jimmy Graham came into the league, but even then, teams missed on the evaluations of those players, or those two would have been first-round picks. Ebron's speed and athletic ability makes him look an instant weapon in the passing game. He should have a long career as a pass catcher.

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May 9th, 2014, 3:52 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
Blueskies wrote:
This is the most important part of that article, IMO:

Quote:
Going along with the "bigger needs" argument is the misconception that the Lions are fine on offense while in desperate need on defense. Never mind that there are still six rounds in the draft left to address the other side of the ball, the notion that the Lions offense is "fine" is a bit puzzling. Yes, the Lions racked up a ton of yards last year, but their scoring was absolutely terrible considering those yards.

As noted by Reno09 in the comments section, the Lions offense was actually less efficient than the defense last year, according to the advanced statistics of Football Outsiders. Sure, the defense needs fixing too, but the offense was not where it needed to be.

Also, as I noted earlier in the week, the Lions are actually spending a considerable amount more on defense in 2014. The illusion that the Lions overspend on offensive toys is just that: an illusion (Michael).


Nobody is saying the Lions offense is perfect. But again, they ranked 3rd in passing, 6th overall and yes they could score more after ranking 13th overall - is that "terrible"? What do y'all think about the Saints offense since Lombardi, our new OC, is such an offensive genius? They scored 1 more point per game than the Lions last year... And didn't we bring in a head coach to fix the QB/offense, oh wait - the Lions scored 75 points more than the defending SB champs did last year. (BTW - Ebron had a whopping 3 TDs against college defenders last year).

I'll say it again, our offense gave us a lead in every 4th quarter game except one (which was actually our win on Thanksgiving) in that 2nd half collapse last season, our defense simply couldn't hold our opponents when it mattered most. You can look at advanced stats, but think about the games...

Week 17: End the season with a one-point loss to the Vikes by Patterson TD with 8 seconds left
Week 16: Lose by a FG in OT to the Giants
Week 15: Lose by two to the Ravens with 38 seconds left
Week 14: Lose to Eagles giving up 28 points in the 4th quarter
Week 13: Beat Pack on Thanksgiving Day after scoring 40 points
Week 12: Lose by three to Bucs after Mike Glennon's 85 yard TD in 4th qtr
Week 11: Lose by 10 to Steelers after giving up 2 4th qtr TDs
* that is 6 of our 9 losses right there...

and if you want to take it further

Week 2: Lose to Cards by 4 after giving up 9 4th qtr points (had lead in 4th here)
Week 5: Lose to the Bengals by 3 after game winning FG as time expired (offense tied it in 4th)
* that is 8 of our losses, 7 we had the lead in the 4th and 1 was tied, our other loss was the loss in GB which we trailed by 3 at the half.

in addition
gave up 16 4th qtr points to Bears in week 4, gave up 17 4th qtr points to Cowboys in week 8, those were just a couple of games in which the offense bailed the defense out after 4th quarter collapses.

Pretty clear to me what our issue was in 2013! Now if Ebron can play DB in addition to WR3 and TE I think we are onto something...

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May 9th, 2014, 4:18 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
Pablo wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
This is the most important part of that article, IMO:

Quote:
Going along with the "bigger needs" argument is the misconception that the Lions are fine on offense while in desperate need on defense. Never mind that there are still six rounds in the draft left to address the other side of the ball, the notion that the Lions offense is "fine" is a bit puzzling. Yes, the Lions racked up a ton of yards last year, but their scoring was absolutely terrible considering those yards.

As noted by Reno09 in the comments section, the Lions offense was actually less efficient than the defense last year, according to the advanced statistics of Football Outsiders. Sure, the defense needs fixing too, but the offense was not where it needed to be.

Also, as I noted earlier in the week, the Lions are actually spending a considerable amount more on defense in 2014. The illusion that the Lions overspend on offensive toys is just that: an illusion (Michael).


Nobody is saying the Lions offense is perfect. But again, they ranked 3rd in passing, 6th overall and yes they could score more after ranking 13th overall - is that "terrible"? What do y'all think about the Saints offense since Lombardi, our new OC, is such an offensive genius? They scored 1 more point per game than the Lions last year... And didn't we bring in a head coach to fix the QB/offense, oh wait - the Lions scored 75 points more than the defending SB champs did last year. (BTW - Ebron had a whopping 3 TDs against college defenders last year).

I'll say it again, our offense gave us a lead in every 4th quarter game except one (which was actually our win on Thanksgiving) in that 2nd half collapse last season, our defense simply couldn't hold our opponents when it mattered most. You can look at advanced stats, but think about the games...

Week 17: End the season with a one-point loss to the Vikes by Patterson TD with 8 seconds left
Week 16: Lose by a FG in OT to the Giants
Week 15: Lose by two to the Ravens with 38 seconds left
Week 14: Lose to Eagles giving up 28 points in the 4th quarter
Week 13: Beat Pack on Thanksgiving Day after scoring 40 points
Week 12: Lose by three to Bucs after Mike Glennon's 85 yard TD in 4th qtr
Week 11: Lose by 10 to Steelers after giving up 2 4th qtr TDs
* that is 6 of our 9 losses right there...

and if you want to take it further

Week 2: Lose to Cards by 4 after giving up 9 4th qtr points (had lead in 4th here)
Week 5: Lose to the Bengals by 3 after game winning FG as time expired (offense tied it in 4th)
* that is 8 of our losses, 7 we had the lead in the 4th and 1 was tied, our other loss was the loss in GB which we trailed by 3 at the half.

in addition
gave up 16 4th qtr points to Bears in week 4, gave up 17 4th qtr points to Cowboys in week 8, those were just a couple of games in which the offense bailed the defense out after 4th quarter collapses.

Pretty clear to me what our issue was in 2013! Now if Ebron can play DB in addition to WR3 and TE I think we are onto something...


Don't want to give D a ton of credit, but this is some selective use of stats without telling the whole story.

The loss to the Giants...that game was over until Stafford threw a pick 6 to Will Hill, should have never even gone to OT.
The loss to the Ravens...you mean the game the D didn't let up a single TD and the offense turned it over 3 times?
The loss to Bucs...the game Stafford threw a pick 6 and offense turned it over multiple times in their own territory?
The loss to the Eagles...D fell apart in second half but there were more offensive TO's and the offense did NOTHING, Jeremy Ross bailed them out and made it a game
The loss to Pitt...D sucked, but offense scored 27 points in 1 quarter and did nothing rest of the game, Stafford also threw a pick late in the 4th in his own territory
Thanksgiving game...D held Packers to nothing in that game and its' good they did because offense was turning it over early in that game
Go back and watch that Bengals game and watch Stafford leave points on the field in the first half missing TD passes and don't forget ST allowing a blocked kick to be returned deep and Martin shanking one.

Plenty of blame to go around, but main difference in last years team was the offense in the second half. Stafford and offense sucked and turned the ball over too much, just because there was a lead at some point in the 4th quarter doesn't mean it's all on the D. Especially when the offense turns it over and puts more pressure on the D. The D was the same in the second half when they were 1-6 as they were in the first half when they were 6-3. In fact when accounting for pick 6's and ST points, the D actually let up LESS points in the second half of the season.


May 9th, 2014, 4:34 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
I still say a major reason this team stumbled at the end of games and the second half of the season is because they just aren't as physically prepared as other teams in the NFL. This team has been in dire need of a new strength and conditioning staff to help push them through the games and season. Except for a handful players on this team they look soft and/or like they half rectum it during weight room sessions.


May 9th, 2014, 4:35 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
You can easily look at the close losses at the end of games and pin it on the defenses heads, but putting entire games into perspective gives a clearer picture. The majority of games our defenses put our offense in great position which didn't convert. How many times did we have to settle for FG's or have 3 and outs because the offense couldn't stay on the field. Martin was looked at as such a great pick BECAUSE he was seen so many times and was productive in that time. Our defense couldn't help being gassed late in games because they were forced into situations that were impossible. If the offense scores more early, the games become out of reach and the defense isn't being forced to try to win the game. The other team then has to take risks.

Could our defense use some additions? Yes, but our offense has been the major culprit of our failures the last few years. From coaching and play calling to depth at receiver which includes TE's. And Fauria is great in the redzone but a liability in the middle of the field which is where Ebron flourishes. 973 yards with only 3 TDs is where we needed help the most. We have people who can score. That's where Bell, Bush, CJ and Fauria can produce. Only CJ and the running game was producing in the middle of the field. Ebron could very well be the biggest boost to our defense ever drafted.


May 9th, 2014, 4:58 pm
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Post Re: With the 10th pick in the 2014 draft the Lions take Ebro
dr1249, I hear what you are saying. That is why defense and turnovers on offense were the big issues last year. I don't see how Ebron solves either. Plenty more picks to address them however.

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May 9th, 2014, 7:36 pm
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