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 Melvin Gordon a Lion 
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
m2karateman wrote:
conversion02 wrote:
I would Love Gordon here. Dude is a beast and he can do it all. They say he can only run outside and then he pounds it between the tackles. They say he can't catch and then he shows off some mad sticky hands. He's a beast


I'm not a big fan of taking a RB in round one, but if he fell to the Lions and they were picking in the late 20s in round one, I wouldn't be too upset about it. I'd still prefer they get a lineman, either on offense or defense, but in the late 20s Gordon would be a great value.


This.

Even if he did fall to them, I wouldnt be thrilled with the pick. We need a guard and OT before a RB. RBs can be had later and still be effective. Gordon is darn good though and would love to see him in a Lions uniform, but not if there is a player sitting there that fills a more pressing need.


December 12th, 2014, 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
kdsberman wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
conversion02 wrote:
I would Love Gordon here. Dude is a beast and he can do it all. They say he can only run outside and then he pounds it between the tackles. They say he can't catch and then he shows off some mad sticky hands. He's a beast


I'm not a big fan of taking a RB in round one, but if he fell to the Lions and they were picking in the late 20s in round one, I wouldn't be too upset about it. I'd still prefer they get a lineman, either on offense or defense, but in the late 20s Gordon would be a great value.


This.

Even if he did fall to them, I wouldnt be thrilled with the pick. We need a guard and OT before a RB. RBs can be had later and still be effective. Gordon is darn good though and would love to see him in a Lions uniform, but not if there is a player sitting there that fills a more pressing need.



Therein lies the rub. We don't draft for need according to Mayhew. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving the talent base on the O-line. Better running attack, Stafford stays vertical, has more time. But if you can add a dynamic back that freezes the back seven on play action, you've added a new dimension to our offense. I'm not standing on the soap box for us to take a RB in the 1st, agree good RB's can be had later. Just think that if a top back or receiver falls to our pick in the opening round, you have to look hard at what it can do for our offense. Could still get a G/T in the 2nd/3rd.


December 13th, 2014, 11:17 am
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
mayhew says the BPA thing but history has shown that its not entirely true. he always say he s taking BPA but in reality the draft record shows he s not really doing that. he s taking the BPA at a position of need without buttonholing himself to the greatest position of need. they arent just taking the player with the highest rating and they arent taking players where there is no need.


December 13th, 2014, 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
The Legend wrote:
mayhew says the BPA thing but history has shown that its not entirely true. he always say he s taking BPA but in reality the draft record shows he s not really doing that. he s taking the BPA at a position of need without buttonholing himself to the greatest position of need. they arent just taking the player with the highest rating and they arent taking players where there is no need.


He also loves drafting linemen. I'm surprised we didn't take Lewan this past year, but I have a feeling they had serious character concerns about him--probably got some info from local sources as well that turned them off.

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December 16th, 2014, 10:43 am
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
thelomasbrowns wrote:
The Legend wrote:
mayhew says the BPA thing but history has shown that its not entirely true. he always say he s taking BPA but in reality the draft record shows he s not really doing that. he s taking the BPA at a position of need without buttonholing himself to the greatest position of need. they arent just taking the player with the highest rating and they arent taking players where there is no need.


He also loves drafting linemen. I'm surprised we didn't take Lewan this past year, but I have a feeling they had serious character concerns about him--probably got some info from local sources as well that turned them off.


Ummm....yeah, he drafts lineman in every draft so far....

2009 DT Sammie Hill (r4), OT Lydon Murtha (r7)
2010 DT Ndamukong Suh (r1), OT Jason Fox (r4), DE Willie Young (r7)
2011 DT Nick Fairley (r1), OT John Culbreath (r7)
2012 OT Riley Reiff (r1), DE Ronnell Lewis (r4)
2013 DE Ezekial Ansah (r1), OG Larry Warford (r3), DE Devin Taylor (r4)
2014 OC Travis Swanson (r3)

...but look at where he is taking them and what positions. He is a BIG proponent of taking defensive linemen. Not so much on the offensive side. Sure, he took some scrubs in round 7 at OT, and took a flyer on Jason Fox in round four after a serious knee injury lowered his stock. None of those paid off. He took Reiff when he KNEW that Backus was about to retire and that Gosder Cherilus had just come off micro fracture surgery on this knee, and his status was still up in the air. Warford was another 'gotta get one' pick because Peterman was useless, and Swanson was selected to eventually replace Dom.

He doesn't take them because he 'loves to', he takes them because he NEEDS to. Suh was the best player available, Fairley was taken because he fell to them and was too good to pass on, really. Ansah was taken to replace KVB.

If you look at that list, there were 13 linemen taken in 6 drafts. About two per draft. Now, teams typically carry 8 or 9 offensive linemen, and 8 or 9 defensive linemen on their roster. So let's say 17 out of 53 are linemen on the roster. That's about 32% of your roster dedicated to linemen on both sides of the ball. 13 picks out of 46 selections from 2009 to 2014. Right around the same percentage (28%).

Out of those 13 picks, 7 went to DL and 6 to OL. But only ONE pick to the offensive line in the first round, and that was a latest first pick we've had in round one since 1992 (Robert Porcher taken 26th). The Lions 6 OL picks were selected in an average round of 4.1666. The DL picks average was 3.14, a full round better. So, in essence, Mayhew is far more willing to use higher and more picks on the defensive line than on the offensive line.

Basically Mayhew is drafting pretty similar to how the Lions have historically drafted. More than willing to burn a first or second round pick on a defensive lineman, but very hesitant to use a first round pick on an offensive lineman, and NEVER on an interior lineman on offense.

Anybody want to guess when the last time this team dedicated a top 10 pick to an offensive lineman? Hint: He was one of the best offensive tackles this team has had, and he didn't end his career in Detroit.

Lomas Brown in 1985 taken 6th overall.

Since 1985 we've had 15 top ten picks. Never even used one of those to an offensive lineman.

Sad.

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December 16th, 2014, 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
flashback to years ago....they should ve taken willie roaf one year but traded him to the saints for chilling pat swilling. supposedly lions really wanted roaf but they didnt think he d be available and traded the pick

dont be afraid to draft OL Mayhew, its not sexy but it makes the skill position picks a lot more likely to succeed


December 16th, 2014, 10:57 pm
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
m2karateman wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
The Legend wrote:
mayhew says the BPA thing but history has shown that its not entirely true. he always say he s taking BPA but in reality the draft record shows he s not really doing that. he s taking the BPA at a position of need without buttonholing himself to the greatest position of need. they arent just taking the player with the highest rating and they arent taking players where there is no need.


He also loves drafting linemen. I'm surprised we didn't take Lewan this past year, but I have a feeling they had serious character concerns about him--probably got some info from local sources as well that turned them off.


Ummm....yeah, he drafts lineman in every draft so far....

2009 DT Sammie Hill (r4), OT Lydon Murtha (r7)
2010 DT Ndamukong Suh (r1), OT Jason Fox (r4), DE Willie Young (r7)
2011 DT Nick Fairley (r1), OT John Culbreath (r7)
2012 OT Riley Reiff (r1), DE Ronnell Lewis (r4)
2013 DE Ezekial Ansah (r1), OG Larry Warford (r3), DE Devin Taylor (r4)
2014 OC Travis Swanson (r3)

...but look at where he is taking them and what positions. He is a BIG proponent of taking defensive linemen. Not so much on the offensive side. Sure, he took some scrubs in round 7 at OT, and took a flyer on Jason Fox in round four after a serious knee injury lowered his stock. None of those paid off. He took Reiff when he KNEW that Backus was about to retire and that Gosder Cherilus had just come off micro fracture surgery on this knee, and his status was still up in the air. Warford was another 'gotta get one' pick because Peterman was useless, and Swanson was selected to eventually replace Dom.

He doesn't take them because he 'loves to', he takes them because he NEEDS to. Suh was the best player available, Fairley was taken because he fell to them and was too good to pass on, really. Ansah was taken to replace KVB.

If you look at that list, there were 13 linemen taken in 6 drafts. About two per draft. Now, teams typically carry 8 or 9 offensive linemen, and 8 or 9 defensive linemen on their roster. So let's say 17 out of 53 are linemen on the roster. That's about 32% of your roster dedicated to linemen on both sides of the ball. 13 picks out of 46 selections from 2009 to 2014. Right around the same percentage (28%).

Out of those 13 picks, 7 went to DL and 6 to OL. But only ONE pick to the offensive line in the first round, and that was a latest first pick we've had in round one since 1992 (Robert Porcher taken 26th). The Lions 6 OL picks were selected in an average round of 4.1666. The DL picks average was 3.14, a full round better. So, in essence, Mayhew is far more willing to use higher and more picks on the defensive line than on the offensive line.

Basically Mayhew is drafting pretty similar to how the Lions have historically drafted. More than willing to burn a first or second round pick on a defensive lineman, but very hesitant to use a first round pick on an offensive lineman, and NEVER on an interior lineman on offense.

Anybody want to guess when the last time this team dedicated a top 10 pick to an offensive lineman? Hint: He was one of the best offensive tackles this team has had, and he didn't end his career in Detroit.

Lomas Brown in 1985 taken 6th overall.

Since 1985 we've had 15 top ten picks. Never even used one of those to an offensive lineman.

Sad.


Fair enough, but I would say it's been more about what sort of O-lineman we had the chance to draft in many of those cases. The year we took Ziggy, for example, I have no doubt that we would've taken Lane Johnson had he been available.

Sure, we might not take interior linemen in the 1st, but I'm not convinced that's a smart strategy. I think the value just usually isn't there for an interior lineman in the 1st. Look at the year Cooper and Warmack went in the top 10. Cooper is flat out bust. Not sure about Warmack, but it's not like you see the Titans with a dominant run game or anything like that.

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"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell


December 18th, 2014, 12:56 pm
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
The Legend wrote:
flashback to years ago....they should ve taken willie roaf one year but traded him to the saints for chilling pat swilling. supposedly lions really wanted roaf but they didnt think he d be available and traded the pick

dont be afraid to draft OL Mayhew, its not sexy but it makes the skill position picks a lot more likely to succeed


I just looked into that trade. Gave up a 1st (Roaf) and 4th (Lorenzo Neal) and $1.4M extra to take out the no trade clause we had put in the offer to Swilling in 1992 Free Agency period that the Saints matched. We got him for 2 year seasons (93 and 94) and Roaf played 9 seasons for NO before going to KC via trade for several more years. Neal played 6 seasons for NO and 16 overall, but I suppose if we had him we never would have gotten Sledge 2 years later.


December 18th, 2014, 9:21 pm
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Post Re: Melvin Gordon a Lion
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
The Legend wrote:
flashback to years ago....they should ve taken willie roaf one year but traded him to the saints for chilling pat swilling. supposedly lions really wanted roaf but they didnt think he d be available and traded the pick

dont be afraid to draft OL Mayhew, its not sexy but it makes the skill position picks a lot more likely to succeed


I just looked into that trade. Gave up a 1st (Roaf) and 4th (Lorenzo Neal) and $1.4M extra to take out the no trade clause we had put in the offer to Swilling in 1992 Free Agency period that the Saints matched. We got him for 2 year seasons (93 and 94) and Roaf played 9 seasons for NO before going to KC via trade for several more years. Neal played 6 seasons for NO and 16 overall, but I suppose if we had him we never would have gotten Sledge 2 years later.


I would have preferred having Roaf and Neal over Swilling and Sledge, even if Corey was one of my favorite Lions for years.

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December 18th, 2014, 10:32 pm
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