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 Who do you like? 
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Post Re: Who do you like?
I doubt Coleman lasts to our 2nd pick. Just a gut feeling.


April 29th, 2015, 8:56 am
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Post Re: Who do you like?
rao wrote:
aManNamedSuh wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Hypothetical question:

Since the Lions always seem to draft talent (LOL) over need in the first round, let me ask this. If Mariota were to do an Aaron Rodgers type free fall and he's available at 23, do the Lions pick him?


M2K, I used to really enjoy your analysis. You were tough but fair with the team (I remember you had a draft blog one year and that was really a good read). The problem is, you've become the second coming of WJB. You are sometimes correct, but it's only because you say Mayhew is always wrong.

Maybe it wasn't built in a way to your liking, but we have a relatively talented squad and went 11-5 last year. If you can't admit that Mayhew is doing something right (at least relative to other GMs), then it's hard to take your criticism seriously.


huh? How does a hypothetical question get this response?

And to answer the question, I think they would be stupid not to take him if he slips to them.




I also think M2K has been more negative than previous times, but it's cool he has probably just hit his limit with the FO. I think we all have a breaking point where you've seen so many mistakes you just feel people need to be fired.

I don't see how the Mariota question can even be a real question. Even with the idea of talent over need, the Lions trade out if he's there. The real value is in the extra picks you get from such a high profile QB falling. You have Arizona, Dallas, Denver, and New Orleans all in the bottom of the first round needing a young QB and after that you still have all the teams that passed on him early in the first that would move up from the second to get him. The only way no one is willing to trade up is if there is some huge red flag on him that caused the fall and that makes him not the best player available, so you draft someone else.



its curious when one hits the "limit" when the team is playing well. if this was 2008, it d be understandable...


April 29th, 2015, 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Who do you like?
aManNamedSuh wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Hypothetical question:

Since the Lions always seem to draft talent (LOL) over need in the first round, let me ask this. If Mariota were to do an Aaron Rodgers type free fall and he's available at 23, do the Lions pick him?


M2K, I used to really enjoy your analysis. You were tough but fair with the team (I remember you had a draft blog one year and that was really a good read). The problem is, you've become the second coming of WJB. You are sometimes correct, but it's only because you say Mayhew is always wrong.

Maybe it wasn't built in a way to your liking, but we have a relatively talented squad and went 11-5 last year. If you can't admit that Mayhew is doing something right (at least relative to other GMs), then it's hard to take your criticism seriously.


huh? How does a hypothetical question get this response?

And to answer the question, I think they would be stupid not to take him if he slips to them.


Well, to be fair, I have been more negative about Mayhew in the past two seasons than before. And there is a reason for that. TLB asks a fair question. So here is my response.

There was a time where I thought Mayhew was actually a tremendous GM. He made genius moves early in his GM career. Examples: Roy Williams trade, getting Chris Houston for a 6th round pick, getting Shaun Hill for a seventh round pick, getting Rob Sims for a fifth rounder, Corey Williams for a fifth rounder, getting Tony Scheffler, Julian Peterson and some other players in trades that cost us little to nothing. His trading for players was excellent.

His first draft was also pretty good. The Lions needed a QB, and he got them one. They also did need a good two way tight end, and Pettigrew may have been a bit of a reach at 20 in hindsight, but at the time it was considered a pretty good value pick, and we really didn't have any good TEs on the roster. Levy in the third was a solid pick, and Delmas was a difference maker in his first couple seasons, but injuries took their toll. I don't blame Mayhew for players getting injured, unless they have a history and he picked them anyway (see Jahvid Best, Ryan Broyles, Jason Fox).

However, his ability to identify talent in the rounds AFTER the first have been exposed as poor. I don't expect the team to retain every player, or identify gems in every round. But in his first four drafts he hit on ZERO second rounders other than Delmas, who is no longer with the team. His contract handling has been poor. It's why we lost Suh, Fairley and Willie Young. As for trading picks for players now, I still think getting a 31 year old DT on a one year expensive deal for TWO picks was over paying, particularly since he was about an hour away from being released. Just my opinion, but it's how I feel. I like Ngata as a player. I think he's a good fit here. But the combination of his age, his cost on the cap and the length of the deal has to be factored.

I also agree with what Lawrence Jackson recently said about the front office being arrogant. In watching his pressers, Mayhew has taken on a strong 'I know more than you do' approach to speaking with the media. His curt responses, his refusing to answer some poignant questions, or his flat out bad attitude just rubs me the wrong way. He's coming off as a prick of the highest order, and it really shows when people are questioning his moves. He's a football GM in a town that hasn't seen their team get close to a Super Bowl. Deal with it.

People praise Mayhew for his free agent signings. And my response is that they are some solid additions to the team, of that I agree. But I also take into account that the reason the Lions were forced to sign high priced free agents is because of the poor drafting done by Mayhew. We had to sign Reggie Bush because Mayhew screwed the pooch with not one, but two high picks used on running backs, both of which the Lions traded up to get. We had to sign Golden Tate because he drafted Titus Young over other receivers who didn't have a mental health issue. And before you say that nobody knew......IT'S HIS JOB TO KNOW! He gets paid mucho dinero to find these things out. There were other receivers available, and most of them are still in the league. The guy he picked is behind bars.

Which brings me to last years draft. Eric Ebron was a bad pick. Until he becomes a genuine offensive juggernaut for this team, he will always be a bad pick. I don't blame Mayhew for Van Noy being out most of the season. I think he was a good pick. And I liked the Swanson pick as well. But teams and GMs are usually judged on the merits of their first round pick. Six players taken immediately after Ebron had impacts for their respective teams, and some of those players were at positions of need. Tight end was NOT a position of need, particularly since the team just re-signed Pettigrew to a multi-year deal. One dimensional receiving tight ends can be had in later rounds.

And the team going 11-5 last season was about Terryl Austin, not Martin Mayhew. Without that defensive scheme and the belief Austin instilled in the players in the system, the team doesn't sniff the playoffs. And it wasn't Mayhew who hired Austin, it was Jim Caldwell. And remember, Caldwell only got hired because Whisenhunt turned down the Lions after he was told the team wouldn't allow the defense to be switched to a 3-4. Caldwell was the fallback option that fell into Mayhew's lap. In short, Mayhew didn't do anything to take that team to the playoffs. Look at what the team did the two previous seasons (4-12 and 7-9). That is the best example of how good a GM Mayhew is. Now, I will say that a portion of the reason the team did that poorly in 2012 and 2013 is due to Schwartz being a complete tool. But who hired him?

Bottom Line: He's run this team for six seasons and their record is 40-56 during his tenure. I realize he took over a team with a poor roster. But that is no longer an excuse for the team, or for him. Going 4-12 a season after going 10-6 should have cost Schwartz his job. And it should have cost Mayhew his job as well for not firing Schwartz then and there.

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April 29th, 2015, 9:01 pm
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Post Re: Who do you like?
m2karateman wrote:
Bottom Line: He's run this team for six seasons and their record is 40-56 during his tenure. I realize he took over a team with a poor roster. But that is no longer an excuse for the team, or for him. Going 4-12 a season after going 10-6 should have cost Schwartz his job. And it should have cost Mayhew his job as well for not firing Schwartz then and there.
I'm pretty sure there were reports that Mayhew wanted to fire him, but Ford Jr. overruled him. If accurate, then you can't really blame that on Mayhew IMO.

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April 30th, 2015, 8:57 am
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Post Re: Who do you like?
m2karateman wrote:
aManNamedSuh wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Hypothetical question:

Since the Lions always seem to draft talent (LOL) over need in the first round, let me ask this. If Mariota were to do an Aaron Rodgers type free fall and he's available at 23, do the Lions pick him?


M2K, I used to really enjoy your analysis. You were tough but fair with the team (I remember you had a draft blog one year and that was really a good read). The problem is, you've become the second coming of WJB. You are sometimes correct, but it's only because you say Mayhew is always wrong.

Maybe it wasn't built in a way to your liking, but we have a relatively talented squad and went 11-5 last year. If you can't admit that Mayhew is doing something right (at least relative to other GMs), then it's hard to take your criticism seriously.


huh? How does a hypothetical question get this response?

And to answer the question, I think they would be stupid not to take him if he slips to them.


Well, to be fair, I have been more negative about Mayhew in the past two seasons than before. And there is a reason for that. TLB asks a fair question. So here is my response.

There was a time where I thought Mayhew was actually a tremendous GM. He made genius moves early in his GM career. Examples: Roy Williams trade, getting Chris Houston for a 6th round pick, getting Shaun Hill for a seventh round pick, getting Rob Sims for a fifth rounder, Corey Williams for a fifth rounder, getting Tony Scheffler, Julian Peterson and some other players in trades that cost us little to nothing. His trading for players was excellent.

His first draft was also pretty good. The Lions needed a QB, and he got them one. They also did need a good two way tight end, and Pettigrew may have been a bit of a reach at 20 in hindsight, but at the time it was considered a pretty good value pick, and we really didn't have any good TEs on the roster. Levy in the third was a solid pick, and Delmas was a difference maker in his first couple seasons, but injuries took their toll. I don't blame Mayhew for players getting injured, unless they have a history and he picked them anyway (see Jahvid Best, Ryan Broyles, Jason Fox).

However, his ability to identify talent in the rounds AFTER the first have been exposed as poor. I don't expect the team to retain every player, or identify gems in every round. But in his first four drafts he hit on ZERO second rounders other than Delmas, who is no longer with the team. His contract handling has been poor. It's why we lost Suh, Fairley and Willie Young. As for trading picks for players now, I still think getting a 31 year old DT on a one year expensive deal for TWO picks was over paying, particularly since he was about an hour away from being released. Just my opinion, but it's how I feel. I like Ngata as a player. I think he's a good fit here. But the combination of his age, his cost on the cap and the length of the deal has to be factored.

I also agree with what Lawrence Jackson recently said about the front office being arrogant. In watching his pressers, Mayhew has taken on a strong 'I know more than you do' approach to speaking with the media. His curt responses, his refusing to answer some poignant questions, or his flat out bad attitude just rubs me the wrong way. He's coming off as a prick of the highest order, and it really shows when people are questioning his moves. He's a football GM in a town that hasn't seen their team get close to a Super Bowl. Deal with it.

People praise Mayhew for his free agent signings. And my response is that they are some solid additions to the team, of that I agree. But I also take into account that the reason the Lions were forced to sign high priced free agents is because of the poor drafting done by Mayhew. We had to sign Reggie Bush because Mayhew screwed the pooch with not one, but two high picks used on running backs, both of which the Lions traded up to get. We had to sign Golden Tate because he drafted Titus Young over other receivers who didn't have a mental health issue. And before you say that nobody knew......IT'S HIS JOB TO KNOW! He gets paid mucho dinero to find these things out. There were other receivers available, and most of them are still in the league. The guy he picked is behind bars.

Which brings me to last years draft. Eric Ebron was a bad pick. Until he becomes a genuine offensive juggernaut for this team, he will always be a bad pick. I don't blame Mayhew for Van Noy being out most of the season. I think he was a good pick. And I liked the Swanson pick as well. But teams and GMs are usually judged on the merits of their first round pick. Six players taken immediately after Ebron had impacts for their respective teams, and some of those players were at positions of need. Tight end was NOT a position of need, particularly since the team just re-signed Pettigrew to a multi-year deal. One dimensional receiving tight ends can be had in later rounds.

And the team going 11-5 last season was about Terryl Austin, not Martin Mayhew. Without that defensive scheme and the belief Austin instilled in the players in the system, the team doesn't sniff the playoffs. And it wasn't Mayhew who hired Austin, it was Jim Caldwell. And remember, Caldwell only got hired because Whisenhunt turned down the Lions after he was told the team wouldn't allow the defense to be switched to a 3-4. Caldwell was the fallback option that fell into Mayhew's lap. In short, Mayhew didn't do anything to take that team to the playoffs. Look at what the team did the two previous seasons (4-12 and 7-9). That is the best example of how good a GM Mayhew is. Now, I will say that a portion of the reason the team did that poorly in 2012 and 2013 is due to Schwartz being a complete tool. But who hired him?

Bottom Line: He's run this team for six seasons and their record is 40-56 during his tenure. I realize he took over a team with a poor roster. But that is no longer an excuse for the team, or for him. Going 4-12 a season after going 10-6 should have cost Schwartz his job. And it should have cost Mayhew his job as well for not firing Schwartz then and there.



Great post m2k! I don't believe Mayhew had the power to fire Schwartz. Think that he would have needed the boss to sign off on that one.
Glad to see credit given where credit was due in regards to Austin. Giving Mayhew credit for this teams performance is ridiculous. He has no impact whatsoever on how this team plays. He gets credit for the roster he assembles plain and simple.
His performance in the draft has been mediocre at best. You would think that by now he would have learned from his past mistakes and be making solid, safe, and fundamentally sound selections and decisions on draft day.
I would like to see Mayhew be patient in this years draft. Let the draft come to you. See what's available at your spot, and trade back if it's reasonable.


April 30th, 2015, 10:29 am
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 5043
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Post Re: Who do you like?
m2karateman wrote:
aManNamedSuh wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Hypothetical question:

Since the Lions always seem to draft talent (LOL) over need in the first round, let me ask this. If Mariota were to do an Aaron Rodgers type free fall and he's available at 23, do the Lions pick him?


M2K, I used to really enjoy your analysis. You were tough but fair with the team (I remember you had a draft blog one year and that was really a good read). The problem is, you've become the second coming of WJB. You are sometimes correct, but it's only because you say Mayhew is always wrong.

Maybe it wasn't built in a way to your liking, but we have a relatively talented squad and went 11-5 last year. If you can't admit that Mayhew is doing something right (at least relative to other GMs), then it's hard to take your criticism seriously.


huh? How does a hypothetical question get this response?

And to answer the question, I think they would be stupid not to take him if he slips to them.


Well, to be fair, I have been more negative about Mayhew in the past two seasons than before. And there is a reason for that. TLB asks a fair question. So here is my response.

There was a time where I thought Mayhew was actually a tremendous GM. He made genius moves early in his GM career. Examples: Roy Williams trade, getting Chris Houston for a 6th round pick, getting Shaun Hill for a seventh round pick, getting Rob Sims for a fifth rounder, Corey Williams for a fifth rounder, getting Tony Scheffler, Julian Peterson and some other players in trades that cost us little to nothing. His trading for players was excellent.

His first draft was also pretty good. The Lions needed a QB, and he got them one. They also did need a good two way tight end, and Pettigrew may have been a bit of a reach at 20 in hindsight, but at the time it was considered a pretty good value pick, and we really didn't have any good TEs on the roster. Levy in the third was a solid pick, and Delmas was a difference maker in his first couple seasons, but injuries took their toll. I don't blame Mayhew for players getting injured, unless they have a history and he picked them anyway (see Jahvid Best, Ryan Broyles, Jason Fox).

However, his ability to identify talent in the rounds AFTER the first have been exposed as poor. I don't expect the team to retain every player, or identify gems in every round. But in his first four drafts he hit on ZERO second rounders other than Delmas, who is no longer with the team. His contract handling has been poor. It's why we lost Suh, Fairley and Willie Young. As for trading picks for players now, I still think getting a 31 year old DT on a one year expensive deal for TWO picks was over paying, particularly since he was about an hour away from being released. Just my opinion, but it's how I feel. I like Ngata as a player. I think he's a good fit here. But the combination of his age, his cost on the cap and the length of the deal has to be factored.

I also agree with what Lawrence Jackson recently said about the front office being arrogant. In watching his pressers, Mayhew has taken on a strong 'I know more than you do' approach to speaking with the media. His curt responses, his refusing to answer some poignant questions, or his flat out bad attitude just rubs me the wrong way. He's coming off as a prick of the highest order, and it really shows when people are questioning his moves. He's a football GM in a town that hasn't seen their team get close to a Super Bowl. Deal with it.

People praise Mayhew for his free agent signings. And my response is that they are some solid additions to the team, of that I agree. But I also take into account that the reason the Lions were forced to sign high priced free agents is because of the poor drafting done by Mayhew. We had to sign Reggie Bush because Mayhew screwed the pooch with not one, but two high picks used on running backs, both of which the Lions traded up to get. We had to sign Golden Tate because he drafted Titus Young over other receivers who didn't have a mental health issue. And before you say that nobody knew......IT'S HIS JOB TO KNOW! He gets paid mucho dinero to find these things out. There were other receivers available, and most of them are still in the league. The guy he picked is behind bars.

Which brings me to last years draft. Eric Ebron was a bad pick. Until he becomes a genuine offensive juggernaut for this team, he will always be a bad pick. I don't blame Mayhew for Van Noy being out most of the season. I think he was a good pick. And I liked the Swanson pick as well. But teams and GMs are usually judged on the merits of their first round pick. Six players taken immediately after Ebron had impacts for their respective teams, and some of those players were at positions of need. Tight end was NOT a position of need, particularly since the team just re-signed Pettigrew to a multi-year deal. One dimensional receiving tight ends can be had in later rounds.

And the team going 11-5 last season was about Terryl Austin, not Martin Mayhew. Without that defensive scheme and the belief Austin instilled in the players in the system, the team doesn't sniff the playoffs. And it wasn't Mayhew who hired Austin, it was Jim Caldwell. And remember, Caldwell only got hired because Whisenhunt turned down the Lions after he was told the team wouldn't allow the defense to be switched to a 3-4. Caldwell was the fallback option that fell into Mayhew's lap. In short, Mayhew didn't do anything to take that team to the playoffs. Look at what the team did the two previous seasons (4-12 and 7-9). That is the best example of how good a GM Mayhew is. Now, I will say that a portion of the reason the team did that poorly in 2012 and 2013 is due to Schwartz being a complete tool. But who hired him?

Bottom Line: He's run this team for six seasons and their record is 40-56 during his tenure. I realize he took over a team with a poor roster. But that is no longer an excuse for the team, or for him. Going 4-12 a season after going 10-6 should have cost Schwartz his job. And it should have cost Mayhew his job as well for not firing Schwartz then and there.


great post


April 30th, 2015, 5:41 pm
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