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 Lions 2017 Draft talk 
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I'd like to bring back both Reiff and Warford but I have a feeling neither will be back. Quinn drafted heavily on the Oline. People have mentioned this before but I can see Glasgow staying at LG, Tomlinson moving to RG. That still leaves a hole at RT where Dahl COULD play but I think he's better inside, leaving us to find a new starter.

As for needs I hope we focus on the defense. As everyone has said another quality starting DE is a must and we also need a pass rushing DT. At least 1 but hopefully 2 LB will be added and you can never have enough corners. We looked terrible with Slay and Diggs down, and most teams would with their #1 and #3 corner out, but perhaps spending some of the cap space on a savy vet to pair with Slay would be a good move. We should have around $50M in space and there are some decent guys out there.

In a perfect world we'd add a three down back and another WR but there's only so much that can be done.



Somehow the Lions have gone away from Bush in the 3 safety look with the nickel spot depleted. I dont really understand it. Asa Jackson was a big dropoff from Diggs so yes they need to get better there. Also Don Carey was a total bust playing nickel when Jackson went down and Bademosi was more of outside coverage depth. I wonder if the Lions would give Alex Carter time ahead of Barnes tonight but it seems a tough spot to make an NFL debut covering Baldwin in the slot.


January 7th, 2017, 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
After the last couple of weeks have to wonder about the future of Ngata. He got pushed around by both a good OL (Packers) and a bad one (Seahawks). Part of it could be the Lions DC going with formations overloaded to avoid big plays w 6 in the box setting the DTs up for constant double teams and getting them worn out later in the game. Quinn may want to take a deep look at that situation. $6 m cap number for 2017.


January 8th, 2017, 1:11 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
Deandre Levy may be another not asked to come back. His subpar play in his return should be scrutinized let alone the rumblings about his behind the scenes theatrics and apparent lack of desire to play the game anymore.


January 8th, 2017, 10:13 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
Revised needs

1. DE - Taylor had a disappointing year he s a backup. They need a starter. Hyder makes some hustle plays but he s a rotational guy.
2. DT- Ngata and Thornton pushed around too much late in the year. Need to get better there. Walker had a disappointing year.
3. LB- Levy looks good on paper but there are smudge marks now. Whitehead wasnt helped by his front and had a bad year.
4. RB- Abdullah very well may be done and even at 100% isnt a 3 down back.
5. TE- Need better depth and more versatile players behind Ebron whose dropsies came back at the worst time.
6. S- Saw the limitations of overachieving Wilson late in the year. Killebrew can cover TEs and tackle, maybe he emerges but letting IAQ walk was still a mistake.
7. OL-Pieces are in place, they ll be more effective with a better runner. Have to sign the guys they have or will move up priority list.
8. WR- Diverse array of slightly above average players made better by their QB. Need to find there Tyreek Hill.
9. CB- Solid here when healthy but need a 4th guy for depth? Alex Carter has come along slow but fits the profile. SpTeamers Bademosi and Carey failed on D.
10. QB- Will be some backup drama but starter is durable and set.


January 8th, 2017, 10:28 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
The Legend wrote:
Revised needs

1. DE - Taylor had a disappointing year he s a backup. They need a starter. Hyder makes some hustle plays but he s a rotational guy.
2. DT- Ngata and Thornton pushed around too much late in the year. Need to get better there. Walker had a disappointing year.
3. LB- Levy looks good on paper but there are smudge marks now. Whitehead wasnt helped by his front and had a bad year.
4. RB- Abdullah very well may be done and even at 100% isnt a 3 down back.
5. TE- Need better depth and more versatile players behind Ebron whose dropsies came back at the worst time.
6. S- Saw the limitations of overachieving Wilson late in the year. Killebrew can cover TEs and tackle, maybe he emerges but letting IAQ walk was still a mistake.
7. OL-Pieces are in place, they ll be more effective with a better runner. Have to sign the guys they have or will move up priority list.
8. WR- Diverse array of slightly above average players made better by their QB. Need to find there Tyreek Hill.
9. CB- Solid here when healthy but need a 4th guy for depth? Alex Carter has come along slow but fits the profile. SpTeamers Bademosi and Carey failed on D.
10. QB- Will be some backup drama but starter is durable and set.



Agree with alot of your summation, well done. But I believe they should pursue a starting corner in FA as well as drafting one for depth and development, sometime after the 1st round. As for the TE situation, we could use an influx of talent (draft or FA) to supplant Ebron, who continues to fail to be a reliable option. When it comes to LB's, Levy appears to be a shadow of his former self and Whitehead is not up to the task of being a monster in the middle for us. Need to find some backers on draft day.


January 9th, 2017, 7:15 pm
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
liontrax wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Revised needs

1. DE - Taylor had a disappointing year he s a backup. They need a starter. Hyder makes some hustle plays but he s a rotational guy.
2. DT- Ngata and Thornton pushed around too much late in the year. Need to get better there. Walker had a disappointing year.
3. LB- Levy looks good on paper but there are smudge marks now. Whitehead wasnt helped by his front and had a bad year.
4. RB- Abdullah very well may be done and even at 100% isnt a 3 down back.
5. TE- Need better depth and more versatile players behind Ebron whose dropsies came back at the worst time.
6. S- Saw the limitations of overachieving Wilson late in the year. Killebrew can cover TEs and tackle, maybe he emerges but letting IAQ walk was still a mistake.
7. OL-Pieces are in place, they ll be more effective with a better runner. Have to sign the guys they have or will move up priority list.
8. WR- Diverse array of slightly above average players made better by their QB. Need to find there Tyreek Hill.
9. CB- Solid here when healthy but need a 4th guy for depth? Alex Carter has come along slow but fits the profile. SpTeamers Bademosi and Carey failed on D.
10. QB- Will be some backup drama but starter is durable and set.



Agree with alot of your summation, well done. But I believe they should pursue a starting corner in FA as well as drafting one for depth and development, sometime after the 1st round. As for the TE situation, we could use an influx of talent (draft or FA) to supplant Ebron, who continues to fail to be a reliable option. When it comes to LB's, Levy appears to be a shadow of his former self and Whitehead is not up to the task of being a monster in the middle for us. Need to find some backers on draft day.


I waver back and forth sometimes about how they should get another CB, but I fall more often towards avoiding FA for anything other than depth. With Slay's new deal they cannot afford to pay for a high level FA CB without eating away at another position. It hurts that CBs tend to take a few years to get it, but that is the way they need to go. I would also avoid signing more than one new CB unless Diggs has set backs. With another high drafted rookie, Slay, Lawson, and Diggs you should have 4 anything behind those guys like Bademosi are for special teams.


January 10th, 2017, 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
I like there starters at CB Slay/Lawson/Diggs. The 4th CB IMO shouldnt be or at least doesnt need to be a big signing. Alex Carter, Charles Washington, Adairius Barnes competing with a veteran or another 4th-5th rd pick. I think the secondary is there strongest defensive group moving forward and will get better with the front 7 getting better.

With $40m in cap space the Lions better be thinking about adding a couple impact FA on DL, LB, wherever - or else they are just wasting everyone s time. They dont have Brady and Belichik to cover up there faults. Nothing wrong with accelerating the process of becoming better.


January 10th, 2017, 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
The Legend wrote:
I like there starters at CB Slay/Lawson/Diggs. The 4th CB IMO shouldnt be or at least doesnt need to be a big signing. Alex Carter, Charles Washington, Adairius Barnes competing with a veteran or another 4th-5th rd pick. I think the secondary is there strongest defensive group moving forward and will get better with the front 7 getting better.

With $40m in cap space the Lions better be thinking about adding a couple impact FA on DL, LB, wherever - or else they are just wasting everyone s time. They dont have Brady and Belichik to cover up there faults. Nothing wrong with accelerating the process of becoming better.


I agree CB doesn't need to be a big signing. I do think it deserves a big resource of a draft pick put into it. If the Lions had a legit 4th guy on the roster right now I would be ok with Slay/Lawson/Diggs, but CBs get injured frequently and they need a good spot starter at least. I like a high draft pick because it would push Lawson/Diggs while maybe even setting up the secondary as a strength for a good 4-5 years.

I would be disappointed if Quinn isn't more aggressive this off-season with the team showing him this season what they can do with the foundation of this roster.


January 10th, 2017, 11:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -nfl-draft


What are people's thoughts on Taco Charlton? I've seen him projected to us in several mocks and several rankings, the above linked one included, have him ranked in the early 20s.


January 18th, 2017, 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000775479/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft


What are people's thoughts on Taco Charlton? I've seen him projected to us in several mocks and several rankings, the above linked one included, have him ranked in the early 20s.



im not a huge fan of him in the first round. i think he could turn out good but it ll probably take a few years.


January 19th, 2017, 12:53 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
Defense is our biggest need. We need to go all defense in the draft, except maybe offensive line. Warfard and Reiff might be gone, but I think Tomlinson can replace Warfard for sure and Dahl might be able to replace Reiff, but we will probably need to address it in the draft.

I would love to see us take Zach Cunningham, LB out of Vanderbilt, with our first pick. If not, I would also love to see one of the corners out of Florida, probably Tabor, or Jabrill Peppers. I love Jamal Adams but he will most likely be gone by our pick. After going, hopefully, Cunningham, corners/safeties such as Jourdan Lewis and Desmond King have slipped deep into the second round. Once considered first round talents, getting one of them would be ideal.

People keep complaining about running back, but when we had Abdullah healthy, he was great. I once saw Dalvin Cook slip to us in a mock draft, and while we have much bigger needs, it is extremely hard to pass up on his talent that late in the draft.

But, like I said our defense is in disarray, and we need to make some big changes at all levels: secondary, linebackers, and defensive line. The defensive line is alright with Hyder, Ansah, Robinson, and Ngata. Secondary needs big help. Linebackers need help too. I saw on Bleacher Report we were in consideration for Jason Pierre-Paul, and that could change most of our defensive line problems. Which leaves the secondary and linebackers as the biggest issue.


January 19th, 2017, 1:51 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
Taco is in a weird place for me. He looks like the ideal fit for Austin's closed end position and seems to have the potential to be a very good player, but like Legend said I would worry about how long he will take to be ready. Taco will be the best fit at DE by the time the Lions get their pick unless something crazy happens that cause one of the top DEs to drop. I could see Taco being a lot like Decker where people will be ok or unhappy with the pick, but he just ends up holding down his spot after a couple weeks of growing pains as long as he's healthy.


January 19th, 2017, 11:27 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
Taco is a player who massively underachieved for 3 seasons and had a good senior year. His draft stock skyrocketed bc he got 2.5 sacks against OSU in the last game but doesnt take into account how badly he played the edge vs the run, namely how undisciplined his play was losing the edge left and right and his athleticism not showing up in space vs Samuel or Barrett. Essentially, Taco barely "beat the clock" with the 3.5 sacks in the last 2 games or else he would probably be a 3rd-4th round player. I cant deny the size and athleticism nor the fact that the NFL is heavily biased towards sacks rather then a well balanced edge defender. I think Taco will be a good but I think it ll be at the back end of that rookie deal with him again barely "beating the clock" taking a few years to refine his game and continuing to learn how to play.

I feel like most NFL teams would be far better off with a player like Derek Barnett who hit the ground running in the SEC and produced throughout 3 great years. He gives up a bit of height to Taco but has a much more complete game, better motor, does better in space, reads and reacts to plays much better and to me is just a better football player. Barnett already knows how to play, he s a natural and he appears to be equal as an athlete. However, this is the time of year where for better or worse, an inch of arm length or height will make big differences to NFL front offices. The Lions may be in a good position to jump on Barnett if players like Taco Charlton rise.


January 20th, 2017, 8:59 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
Good first post

Quote:
Defense is our biggest need. We need to go all defense in the draft, except maybe offensive line. Warfard and Reiff might be gone, but I think Tomlinson can replace Warfard for sure and Dahl might be able to replace Reiff, but we will probably need to address it in the draft.


I think maybe one of Dahl/Tomlinson could replace Warford next year with a substantial dropoff. I dont think the Lions should revisit 2015 with a shuffling deck at RT and I doubt Dahl is ready for RT. We know that Robinson, Lucas arent the answer. The Lions are saving big at LT, they should make Reiff a good offer to stay - small price to pay to keep the franchise protected.

Quote:
I would love to see us take Zach Cunningham, LB out of Vanderbilt, with our first pick. If not, I would also love to see one of the corners out of Florida, probably Tabor, or Jabrill Peppers. I love Jamal Adams but he will most likely be gone by our pick. After going, hopefully, Cunningham, corners/safeties such as Jourdan Lewis and Desmond King have slipped deep into the second round. Once considered first round talents, getting one of them would be ideal.


I dont like the Lions taking a 1st rd ILB when it seems to be one of the most undervalued positions in the NFL, also dont think any Lions LB has much chance at success with the line play in front of them. Tahir Whitehead had a bad year but didnt have much of a chance at success either. He s played well there before, hasnt had a physical injury or setback and I dont see a reason he cant return to an average level of play at ILB with improvement on the DL.

I really like Lewis in that 2nd round, he covers as well as anyone in the draft and fits the profile of what has classically been a successful player at CB in the NFL. If the Lions are looking for a newer style physical corner, they may want to look at AJ Bouye in free agency though it seems everyone will be making it rain in exchange. Probably not going to pay that price given that the Lions are in good shape at CB with two solid young starters and a good nickel CB. Depth is needed and if someone turns out to be better than Lawson or Diggs thats great too.

Quote:
People keep complaining about running back, but when we had Abdullah healthy, he was great. I once saw Dalvin Cook slip to us in a mock draft, and while we have much bigger needs, it is extremely hard to pass up on his talent that late in the draft.


Abdullah is a smaller back who is proving to not hold up to the NFL level of punishment. His latest foot injury would fall into the class of career threatening. The rule with this type of injury should be "expect a major dropoff." If he returns at the same level that should just be considered a massive bonus. Even if Abdullah was completely healthy, the Lions still need a better back for 1st and 2nd down, short yardage.

If somehow, Cook or Fournette get to 21, I think the Lions would have to consider it but I d hate to see them pick McCaffrey and I think its too early for Foreman there. Even Cook, scares me a little for the Lions - not a good track record for the Lions with little runners lately.

Quote:
But, like I said our defense is in disarray, and we need to make some big changes at all levels: secondary, linebackers, and defensive line. The defensive line is alright with Hyder, Ansah, Robinson, and Ngata. Secondary needs big help. Linebackers need help too. I saw on Bleacher Report we were in consideration for Jason Pierre-Paul, and that could change most of our defensive line problems. Which leaves the secondary and linebackers as the biggest issue.


Im not sure they need big changes in the secondary. Sure there are better players than what the Lions have but you cant ask anyone to cover GBs skills group for 8-10 seconds. I d put that front 7 first, DE/OLB/DT in that order though value with whats available should win out.


January 20th, 2017, 9:26 am
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Post Re: Lions 2017 Draft talk
The Legend wrote:
Taco is a player who massively underachieved for 3 seasons and had a good senior year. His draft stock skyrocketed bc he got 2.5 sacks against OSU in the last game but doesnt take into account how badly he played the edge vs the run, namely how undisciplined his play was losing the edge left and right and his athleticism not showing up in space vs Samuel or Barrett. Essentially, Taco barely "beat the clock" with the 3.5 sacks in the last 2 games or else he would probably be a 3rd-4th round player. I cant deny the size and athleticism nor the fact that the NFL is heavily biased towards sacks rather then a well balanced edge defender. I think Taco will be a good but I think it ll be at the back end of that rookie deal with him again barely "beating the clock" taking a few years to refine his game and continuing to learn how to play.

I feel like most NFL teams would be far better off with a player like Derek Barnett who hit the ground running in the SEC and produced throughout 3 great years. He gives up a bit of height to Taco but has a much more complete game, better motor, does better in space, reads and reacts to plays much better and to me is just a better football player. Barnett already knows how to play, he s a natural and he appears to be equal as an athlete. However, this is the time of year where for better or worse, an inch of arm length or height will make big differences to NFL front offices. The Lions may be in a good position to jump on Barnett if players like Taco Charlton rise.


I agree on Barnett, but I can't see him making it to the Lions at 21. His measurements are still quite good at 6'3 265 to fit most schemes and his film is going to be good enough to out weigh other players better measurements. It's a real possibility Taco isn't even around by 21. The DE position is going to be really interesting this year with mock drafts having all the guys after Garrett going in all different orders.


January 20th, 2017, 1:07 pm
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