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 QB's Lions should pursue if still available in 1st round 
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adpreston1385 wrote:

What solid QB could we possibly get 3rd round??!!


I don't know. Let's see..........Kyle Orton, fourth rounder. Charlie Frye, third rounder. Tom Brady, sixth rounder.


Gee, I guess there are good quarterbacks that can be taken late day one or day two, huh?

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October 18th, 2005, 10:52 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
adpreston1385 wrote:

What solid QB could we possibly get 3rd round??!!


I don't know. Let's see..........Kyle Orton, fourth rounder. Charlie Frye, third rounder. Tom Brady, sixth rounder.


Gee, I guess there are good quarterbacks that can be taken late day one or day two, huh?


I never said good QB's weren't taken in the later rounds. In fact, I've mentioned Tom Brady being selected in the 6th round plenty of times on this board. The question I asked is related to the QB's in the 2006 draft. I'm wondering what solid QB's we could get in the class. If you know of any that we could snatch up in the 3rd-4th round let me know!!


October 19th, 2005, 4:03 pm
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I think Brad Smith is going to fall into the 3rd round range unless he is unbelievable at games like teh Senior Bowl, combines, and pro days. He has everyhting needed of a franchise QB. He has never fully blossomed at Missouri because his supporting cast has been less than stellar and last year they tried to take away his legs by making him a pocket passer. This year he is getting back to hi sold ways however. The experiment in '04 may have actually helped as well, with him looking to pass a little longer before breaking out and running. If they can land Kitna or even McCown for a reasonable price in FA then I think Smith would be a good choice to take over in a year or two.


October 20th, 2005, 10:02 am
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adpreston1385 wrote:
I never said good QB's weren't taken in the later rounds. In fact, I've mentioned Tom Brady being selected in the 6th round plenty of times on this board. The question I asked is related to the QB's in the 2006 draft. I'm wondering what solid QB's we could get in the class. If you know of any that we could snatch up in the 3rd-4th round let me know!!


If a quarterback is already predisposed to being good, they won't last until the third or fourth round. Nobody knows for sure about the capability of a quarterback to be effective in the NFL. There are some analysts who question the capabilities of Matt Leinhart being successful as an NFL QB. Besides, why get a third-fourth rounder in 2006 when we just drafted a projected third-fourth rounder in 2005?

The only way to address this QB situation is free agency. I just read an article where the Chargers may look to deal Drew Brees rather than Philip Rivers. I have my doubts, but if that is true, I believe the Lions need to jump in with both feet. The Jets would be the other team actively looking for a starter. One could only hope Brees would prefer to come here because of the offensive talent. Then again, he may elect not to because of the offensive line or the play calling.

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October 20th, 2005, 12:03 pm
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So basically you're saying that Dan Orlovsky is the QB of the future for Detroit?? If that's so, our team is screwed!!


October 20th, 2005, 2:59 pm
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adpreston1385 wrote:
So basically you're saying that Dan Orlovsky is the QB of the future for Detroit?? If that's so, our team is screwed!!


NOOOOO. I said the Lions must pursue the free agent market for a veteran. Besides, how much do you know about Orlovsky? Why are we automatically screwed with him as the QB? None of us has seen enough of Dan to make a fair judgement of his abilities as a signal caller for this team.

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October 20th, 2005, 3:05 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
adpreston1385 wrote:
I never said good QB's weren't taken in the later rounds. In fact, I've mentioned Tom Brady being selected in the 6th round plenty of times on this board. The question I asked is related to the QB's in the 2006 draft. I'm wondering what solid QB's we could get in the class. If you know of any that we could snatch up in the 3rd-4th round let me know!!


If a quarterback is already predisposed to being good, they won't last until the third or fourth round. Nobody knows for sure about the capability of a quarterback to be effective in the NFL. There are some analysts who question the capabilities of Matt Leinhart being successful as an NFL QB. Besides, why get a third-fourth rounder in 2006 when we just drafted a projected third-fourth rounder in 2005?

The only way to address this QB situation is free agency. I just read an article where the Chargers may look to deal Drew Brees rather than Philip Rivers. I have my doubts, but if that is true, I believe the Lions need to jump in with both feet. The Jets would be the other team actively looking for a starter. One could only hope Brees would prefer to come here because of the offensive talent. Then again, he may elect not to because of the offensive line or the play calling.


I agree that I haven't seem him play and I don't know how much talent he has. But you basically did say that he's the QB of the future in the quote above: "why get a third-fourth rounder in 2006 when we just drafted a projected third-fourth rounder in 2005?"
The bold indicates that we don't need to draft another QB this year, because we already have a potential starting QB in Dan Orlovsky from this year.


October 20th, 2005, 3:08 pm
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Post Re: QB's Lions should pursue if still available in 1st round
adpreston1385 wrote:
Matt Leinart, USC
Omar Jacobs, Bowling Green, Jr.
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt
Reggie McNeal, Texas AM
Chris Leak, Florida, Jr.
Vincent Young, Texas, Jr.
Bruce Gradkowski, Toledo
Charlie Whitehurst, Clemson
Kellen Clemens, Oregon
Brodie Croyle, Alabama



(I'd like the Lions to draft either Jay Cutler or Charlie Whitehurst in the 1st round if Matt Leinhart is already selected)


I would like to see Troy Smith from OSU added to that list, along with Penn State's Michael Robinson, both as later round picks.


October 20th, 2005, 3:39 pm
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How about the success rate for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th round QBs, since everyone refers to them as being possibilities.

The better players get picked first. If you want a starter, you will pick them in the first round.


October 20th, 2005, 9:47 pm
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O.K. I'm going to chime in and give all my .02 worth. I feel it would be a huge mistake for the Lions to take a QB in the first or second round this year. Normally your first and second rounders are expected to start right away. Detroit cannot afford that.

Millen blew up the team when he took over. Like it or not, it had to happen sooner or later. I don't agree with all of the players he let go, but it had to be done. He has brought in enough talent through the draft and f.a. to make this team a winner. Taking a QB next year would set the team back 2 years. This is not the Steelers with a solid line and one of the best running games in the league. I stated that they have enough talent to be a winner, but you have to posess one of the elite teams to pull off what Pittsburgh did. Besides, Roethlisburger was a great find. I doubt that even Cowher knew that he was going to be as good as he is when they drafted him.

Personally I feel they need to get a vet that can come in and demand the respect of the offense and take control of the team and be the leader they need. The "Field General" that every team is looking for. I would like nothing more than to see Joey be that guy, but it doesn't look like it. These players don't come along often and I can't say there is one out there that will be available, but I think that is what they need.


October 20th, 2005, 10:21 pm
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Brian wrote:
How about the success rate for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th round QBs, since everyone refers to them as being possibilities.

The better players get picked first. If you want a starter, you will pick them in the first round.


How about the success rate of first round QB's over the last 15 years?

1990- Jeff George, Andre Ware- that about sums up that year
1991- Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich- see 1990
1992- David Klingler, Tommy Maddox- see 1990 & 1991
1993- Drew Bledsoe, Rick Mirer- Thank you Drew for bucking the trend
1994- Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer- At least Trent won a Super Bowl
1995- Steve McNair, Kerry Collins- The best year so far
1996- I may have missed one but I think there were only 6 QB's drafted
1997- Jim Drunkenmiller- He did/does date playmate Julie Cialini
1998- Peyton Manning, Ryan Leaf- Well at least Peyton came through
1999- Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown- Culpepper is okay but McNabb is the only consistant one
2000- Chad Pennington- Well.... Sorry had to stop typing my shoulder hurt
2001- Michael Vick- He's one heck of an athlete
2002- David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey- Maybe it's the teams they are on maybe not
2003- Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- 50% isn't bad
2004- Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J.P. Losman- still too early t say but Eli and Ben look good

So I'll say that out of all those QB's maybe 1/3 are worthy to be considered franchise type QB's.

But let me get back to Drunkenmiller(what a great name) and my run in with him. My best friends girlfriend was cutting hair at some salon in the Rochester, NY area. Well she tells him that this hot girl and her boyfriend some football player stop in every so often. Well the next time they stop in we're cruising around the city and he gets a phone call that they are at her salon. So we swing by and as we walk in the door I'm like holy crap that's Julie Cialini. I will tell everybody that pictures do not do her justice.


October 21st, 2005, 2:13 pm
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Welcome to Lionbacker SweetD20~

There have definitely been good years and bad years.... The 2002 class really hasn't had the best luck...

Carr - I'd say bad team
Harrington - wrong scheme for a pocket passer
Ramsey - Needs more time to develop

Good Post

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October 21st, 2005, 2:23 pm
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adpreston1385 wrote:
I agree that I haven't seem him play and I don't know how much talent he has. But you basically did say that he's the QB of the future in the quote above: "why get a third-fourth rounder in 2006 when we just drafted a projected third-fourth rounder in 2005?"
The bold indicates that we don't need to draft another QB this year, because we already have a potential starting QB in Dan Orlovsky from this year.


No, what I'm saying is that a third or fourth rounder in 2006 is the equal to a fifth rounder from 2005. Orlovsky has a year of learning under his belt, which gives him an advantage.

By your equating of Orlovsky, you are telling me that a third or fourth rounder in 2006 is automatically a starter of the future. That's wrong to assume. If we draft a qb in the middle rounds in 2006, we will have a starter, Orlovsky and the rookie. So if our starter goes down, we have a second year guy and a rookie to choose from? That's foolish.

We have no reason to waste a pick next year on a quarterback that will spend the year carrying a clip board. The Lions need a veteran free agent that can lead this team and take charge. They need a quarterback that will hold the players accountable to their mistakes while leading through example by his own exemplary play.

Joey can't lead this team right now because he can't get down on other players. He isn't performing, so he has no room to question others. However, the other players (for the most part) aren't doing what's expected of them, so they have no room to criticize Harrington either. The only people who have a right to pound their chest and speak is the defense.

These offensive players need to listen, drop their attitudes, and perform like they're being paid to do.

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October 21st, 2005, 5:35 pm
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Quote:
No, what I'm saying is that a third or fourth rounder in 2006 is the equal to a fifth rounder from 2005. Orlovsky has a year of learning under his belt, which gives him an advantage


possible advantage?

I think it depends a lot on the......

#1 --- individual QB's mental toughness/intelligence/ability to learn his own scheme and NFL defenses.

#2 --- COACHING!

#3 --- practice reps. Orlovsky possibly won't learn as much as Orton.

#4 --- college experience. Charlie Frye faced the MAC..........while a guy like Charlie Whitehurst will come out of school having started 4 years at Clemson facing much better competition over a long period of time.

#5 --- work ethic. Does every QB study like Peyton Manning?


There are just so many variables that determine a how successful a QB can be in the NFL.........I don't think there is ANY equation that relates.

This is also why I RARELY EVER like the idea of drafting a QB in the 1st round. As the look at past QB failures shows.......there aren't many true franchise QBs that can be identified as 1st rounders. It is more like hitting the lottery (with a hunch formed by scouting).

I'd rather try to build the team around the QB.........and thus, try to reduce the pressure on the QB to win games himself. After all........a lot of super Bowls have been won by solid teams that just ask thier QB to manage the game.


October 21st, 2005, 10:20 pm
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Anyone who went though Long, Ware, and Harrington would agree, especially after watching Brady ship out. God knows what makes a good QB, but you have a better chance of bottling a rattlesnake. The only thing that works is Ron Wolf's law of probability. Keep drafting them and trying them out. It should not take you four years to realize a quaterback has not improved. :cry:

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October 21st, 2005, 10:46 pm
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