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 Rick Gosselin's/Mel Kiper's Top 15/25 
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Joined: August 6th, 2004, 8:33 pm
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Post Rick Gosselin's/Mel Kiper's Top 15/25
1. Reggie Bush* HB Southern Cal 6-0 200
2. Matt Leinart QB Southern Cal 6-4 224
3. Mario Williams* DE North Caro. St. 6-7 290
4. Laurence Maroney* HB Minnesota 5-11 205
5. Vince Young* QB Texas 6-5 233
6. DeAngelo Williams HB Memphis 5-8 ? 213
7. Chad Greenway OLB Iowa 6-2 243
8. A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State 6-1 243
9. Joe Thomas* OT Wisconsin 6-8 295
10. Haloti Ngata* DT Oregon 6-5 338
11. D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia 6-5 294
12. Brian Calhoun HB Wisconsin 5-10 194
13. Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College 6-5 ? 258
14. Vernon Davis* TE Maryland 6-3 253
15. Claude Wroten DT LSU 6-3 290

Correction though, Calhoun is a junior, and still has eligibility.

Mel Kiper's top 25 (only seniors)

1. Matt Leinart Sr. QB USC
2. A.J. Hawk Sr. LB Ohio St.
3. DeMeco Ryans Sr. OLB Alabama
4. D'Brickashaw Ferguson Sr. OT Virginia
5. Tamba Hali Sr. DE Penn St.
6. Jimmy Williams Sr. CB Va. Tech
7. DeAngelo Williams Sr. RB Memphis
8. Chad Greenway Sr. LB Iowa
9. Mathias Kiwanuka Sr. DE B.C.
10. Michael Huff Sr. DB Texas
11. Orien Harris Sr. DT Miami
12. Derek Hagan Sr. WR Arizona St.
13. Thomas Howard Sr. LB UTEP
14. Sinorice Moss Sr. WR Miami
15. Brodrick Bunkley Sr. DT Florida St.
16. Jay Cutler Sr. QB Vanderbilt
17. Claude Wroten Sr. DT LSU
18. Marcedes Lewis Sr. TE UCLA
19. Anthony Smith Sr. DB Syracuse
20. Kyle Williams Sr. DT LSU
21. Jason Spitz Sr. G/C Louisville
22. Dwayne Slay Sr. FS Texas Tech
23. Ryan O'Callaghan Sr. OT California
24. Elvis Dumervil Sr. DE Louisville
25. Max Jean-Gilles Sr. OG Georgia

Leinart, Williams, Greenway, Hawk, Kiwanuka, Ferguson, and Wroten are the 7 mainstays on each board. Of course, Kiper has already endorsed both Bush and Young, and has Davis as the top underclassmen TE, Bush and Maroney as the top RBs, Quinn and young as the top QBs, Thomas as the 2nd best OT (next to Justice), Williams as the best DE, and Ngata as the 3rd best DL (and best DT).

So anyways, there's about a dozen players the Lions could be looking at.

Reggie Bush
Matt Leinart
Mario Williams*
Laurence Maroney*
Vince Young*
DeAngelo Williams
Chad Greenway
A.J. Hawk
Joe Thomas*
Haloti Ngata*
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Mathias Kiwanuka
Vernon Davis
Claude Wroten


December 12th, 2005, 2:08 am
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Post Re: Rick Gosselin's/Mel Kiper's Top 15/25
Brian wrote:
1. Reggie Bush* HB Southern Cal 6-0 200
2. Matt Leinart QB Southern Cal 6-4 224
3. Mario Williams* DE North Caro. St. 6-7 290
4. Laurence Maroney* HB Minnesota 5-11 205
5. Vince Young* QB Texas 6-5 233
6. DeAngelo Williams HB Memphis 5-8 ? 213
7. Chad Greenway OLB Iowa 6-2 243
8. A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State 6-1 243
9. Joe Thomas* OT Wisconsin 6-8 295
10. Haloti Ngata* DT Oregon 6-5 338
11. D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia 6-5 294
12. Brian Calhoun HB Wisconsin 5-10 194
13. Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College 6-5 ? 258
14. Vernon Davis* TE Maryland 6-3 253
15. Claude Wroten DT LSU 6-3 290

Correction though, Calhoun is a junior, and still has eligibility.

Mel Kiper's top 25 (only seniors)

1. Matt Leinart Sr. QB USC
2. A.J. Hawk Sr. LB Ohio St.
3. DeMeco Ryans Sr. OLB Alabama
4. D'Brickashaw Ferguson Sr. OT Virginia
5. Tamba Hali Sr. DE Penn St.
6. Jimmy Williams Sr. CB Va. Tech
7. DeAngelo Williams Sr. RB Memphis
8. Chad Greenway Sr. LB Iowa
9. Mathias Kiwanuka Sr. DE B.C.
10. Michael Huff Sr. DB Texas
11. Orien Harris Sr. DT Miami
12. Derek Hagan Sr. WR Arizona St.
13. Thomas Howard Sr. LB UTEP
14. Sinorice Moss Sr. WR Miami
15. Brodrick Bunkley Sr. DT Florida St.
16. Jay Cutler Sr. QB Vanderbilt
17. Claude Wroten Sr. DT LSU
18. Marcedes Lewis Sr. TE UCLA
19. Anthony Smith Sr. DB Syracuse
20. Kyle Williams Sr. DT LSU
21. Jason Spitz Sr. G/C Louisville
22. Dwayne Slay Sr. FS Texas Tech
23. Ryan O'Callaghan Sr. OT California
24. Elvis Dumervil Sr. DE Louisville
25. Max Jean-Gilles Sr. OG Georgia

Leinart, Williams, Greenway, Hawk, Kiwanuka, Ferguson, and Wroten are the 7 mainstays on each board. Of course, Kiper has already endorsed both Bush and Young, and has Davis as the top underclassmen TE, Bush and Maroney as the top RBs, Quinn and young as the top QBs, Thomas as the 2nd best OT (next to Justice), Williams as the best DE, and Ngata as the 3rd best DL (and best DT).

So anyways, there's about a dozen players the Lions could be looking at.

Reggie Bush
Matt Leinart
Mario Williams*
Laurence Maroney*
Vince Young*
DeAngelo Williams
Chad Greenway
A.J. Hawk
Joe Thomas*
Haloti Ngata*
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Mathias Kiwanuka
Vernon Davis
Claude Wroten


I'm surprised to see only one FS in the top 25, and even more surprised that it isn't Michael Huff, or Jason Allen... I'm sure the combine will change a lot of these rankings though.


December 12th, 2005, 5:46 am
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Quote:
So anyways, there's about a dozen players the Lions could be looking at.

Reggie Bush
Matt Leinart
Mario Williams*
Laurence Maroney*
Vince Young*
DeAngelo Williams
Chad Greenway
A.J. Hawk
Joe Thomas*
Haloti Ngata*
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Mathias Kiwanuka
Vernon Davis
Claude Wroten


I think we can add OT Jon Scott, OT Eric Winston and LB Ahmad Brroks to that list as well.


December 12th, 2005, 11:31 am
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phunnypharm wrote:
I think we can add OT Jon Scott, OT Eric Winston and LB Ahmad Brroks to that list as well.


Jon Scott isn't even the best OT on his team.


December 13th, 2005, 12:08 am
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Joe Thomas is scary good. What a monster that guy is. If he comes out and is available, the Lions would be wise to select him.

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December 13th, 2005, 12:22 am
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Quote:
Jon Scott isn't even the best OT on his team


That might be true.......but he is likely the better OLT prospect than Blalock.

And even though he may not be the best OT at Texas.....he is likely still one of the top 5 OLT prospects in the draft.


All I'm saying is that I hope we trade down.....maybe even several times.... because I think there are more quality OT prospects this year than most and we can get a good player + get more picks to address our many needs.


December 13th, 2005, 11:05 am
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If available Mario Williams should be the hands down pick, he has the ability to be a freak of nature type DE...


December 13th, 2005, 10:31 pm
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ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Location: WSU
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I agree Mario Williams would be a great pick, he is a special player. i think teams are going overboard on bush, he is great but shouldnt be the hands down number one. To me he looks like a faster Peter Warrick lined up in the backfield, the blocking he gets is exceptional - I wonder if he can get the tough yards. His teammate LenDale White matches/exceeds Bush's stats which makes me wonder as well. If Houston picks him, its a mistake, they need to trade out and take Ferguson or Jimmy Williams. DDavis is a more than adequate back. Last season nobody would even trade for Alexander or James, I dont get why all the hype on Bush when proven players get the shaft. SF should be the place for Bush.

My wish list for the lions is one of Mario Williams, Jimmy Williams, or Ferguson. They would all fit needs and are unique talents. I also look for an RB and a QB in this draft; the QB has to be either Vince Young or Jay Cutler and I dont take them unless the above 3 are gone. We need a backup/upgrade to KJ in the running game as well. I wouldnt hesitate to pull the trigger as early as rd 2 if I like the player but think we have a good chance to get a back as late as rd 4. i would trade KJ straight up for a chance at Lawrence Maroney.


December 13th, 2005, 11:03 pm
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HunterMSU wrote:
If available Mario Williams should be the hands down pick, he has the ability to be a freak of nature type DE...


I just got done writing a similar post on a different thread.


December 13th, 2005, 11:28 pm
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Wow, I am surprised to see Kiwanuka has dropped down the board to outside of the top 10. This guy is a freak and was a sure top 5 coming into the year.

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December 14th, 2005, 2:26 pm
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I WANT AJ HAWK TO REPLACE EARL HOLMES IN THE MIDDLE, THAT DUDE IS SICK

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December 14th, 2005, 3:51 pm
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Quote:
Last season nobody would even trade for Alexander or James, I dont get why all the hype on Bush when proven players get the shaft.


GREAT POINT!


The Colts were willing to part with Edge for a 2nd round pick last year.

I know he is older (27 y.o.).......but would still have had a 5-year contract lifespan of productivity IF signed before this year. Yeah.....he would have wanted $15 million in SB + a big deal. BUT......what is Reggie Bush going to get as #1 overall (or even #2)?

SAME MONEY.


I REALLY like Reggie Bush's potential. Don't get me wrong. But this is the ultimate team game.......and I think getting VALUE is important in trades, the draft, and free agency. If all of these teams are drooling over spending HUGE money on Bush + the #1 overall pick..........why didn't anyone want Edge for a 2nd rounder last year?


The Bottom Line for me is I hate the idea of paying unproven players bigger money than proven players in their prime. Imagine IF we had traded down in 2002, 2003, and even 2004 (again, even after the Cleveland trade) just to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder.

We would have had MUCH more depth across the board........plus MORE room for the salary cap to sign free agents........and the drop off in talent is not that big whether you are picking top 10.....or just #10-#20!

You might not be able to target a PARTICULAR position or player at #10-20........but there are STILL MANY GOOD PLAYERS available. They may not have as high of a "ceiling" as other players taken earlier.......but also may have have higher "floors" than others.


December 14th, 2005, 8:00 pm
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While I agree with most of what you're saying, I disagree that James is in the same league as Bush. Bush is just one of those guys...like Barry. He's in a category above James. James is good, but not elite IMO. IMO, what makes him "elite" is the passing attack. If you put James in Arizona, he'd be lucky to break 75 yards in a game. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush regularly tacked up 80 yards a game in Arizona, the guy is much more elusive.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything about the trading down for depth and getting quality players.

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December 15th, 2005, 12:50 am
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conversion02 wrote:
While I agree with most of what you're saying, I disagree that James is in the same league as Bush. Bush is just one of those guys...like Barry. He's in a category above James. James is good, but not elite IMO. IMO, what makes him "elite" is the passing attack. If you put James in Arizona, he'd be lucky to break 75 yards in a game. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush regularly tacked up 80 yards a game in Arizona, the guy is much more elusive.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything about the trading down for depth and getting quality players.


Eh... IMO the only reason you don't think James is an elite back is because he plays for the colts. The announcers say the entire Colts offense is predicated upon James' ability and I believe it. He doesn't seem to get the ball very often, but when he does it is amazing what he does with it. He's an amazing combination of power, speed, and agility. Would James get more than 75 in az? Hard to say... Hard to say if he would get more than 75 a game in Detroit or Houston too. That said, he would get over 100 a game in Seattle, NE, Jax, Carolina, ect.... RB's like Bush (elusive backs) can do more with less IMO. But put both backs on a team that have a DECENT OL and I think you would see little difference. In fact, against D's were power is an issue (Atl, Chicago) I think James would do better.


December 15th, 2005, 3:29 pm
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James actually has the highest average carries per game for his career of all the bigger name backs in the league. I think we may see if he can average more than 75 yards per carry somewhere else next year. With the year he's having this year I can't imagine the Colts are going to be able to afford to keep him on the roster.


December 15th, 2005, 3:35 pm
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