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 AJ HAWK ANYONE???? 
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Well as far as LT i know Ferguson will be taken in the top ten, and Scott maybe another top 10 guy.

IMO, Winston Justice can play both LT or RT, he is one of the better run blockers available and is still a good pass protector, i would take him over any other OT in the draft based solely on ability, but those character problems could make him a huge gamble. I would love to see him drafted if we get a coach who can straighten him out, but we dont know who the head coach is yet. If we get that coach i think Justice is very worthy of a #10 pick.

I really want to see a good run blocking LT taken, especially if we dont get a better Center or a great LG because that left side of the OL is consistantly dominated in games, we need to get at least some push from that left side.


December 31st, 2005, 4:29 pm
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Brian wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
It would be silly for Stanton or Quinn to come out this year. Quinn might be a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but Stanton would likely fall to the 4th to 6th rounds after a dismal 2nd 1/2 of the season.


Quinn's not falling out of the top 10. But of course, it depends on how needs align. We all saw how Rodgers had a free fall last year. Anyways, he's not a second round pick.


You sort of make my case for me... I think Quinn is a second round pick based upon team needs and talent availability. Leinhart and Vince Young seem to be the first two Qb's taken. IMO Reggie McNeal, Charlie Whitehurst, Troy Smith, and Micheal Robinson can all be drafted ahead of Quinn. I personally don't think he is even the hands down 3rd best Qb in the draft.


December 31st, 2005, 4:39 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Vince Young is the only Qb I am not certain of. It would be silly for Stanton or Quinn to come out this year. Quinn might be a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but Stanton would likely fall to the 4th to 6th rounds after a dismal 2nd 1/2 of the season.

As for Huff/Williams, I agree whole heartedly. Espeically last year after the Rolle experience, if Williams has a poor 40 time I think it will really hurt his chances of being a top 10 pick. I too am not saying that Huff deserves to be picked that high, after all the only point I made to his draft position is there is no way he'll be available in the 2nd round. I am only saying that I can see a team reaching for him based on what I believe his 40 time will be, compared to that of the similar sized competition.

If Ferguson is gone (most likely), and Kiwanuka/Williams are gone, I would prefer the Lions trade down. I'm not sold on Hawk being able to play the middle.... I would prefer to move down 5 - 8 slots, pick up a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and draft Huff, Hodge, Hawk, or Max Jean Giles. IMO that is the best case scenario. We either get a top notch DE or OT, or move down and get a top notch LB/FS or OG. Anyone of the 7 players I mentioned should be able to start and contribute immediatly and be upgrades at their relative positions. I'm really not sold on any LT other than Ferguson.... is anyone else on here hell bent on grabbing any one LT??? Scott, Justice, McNeil are all possibilities, but from what I understand they are more RT possibilities than LT. IMO Eric Winston seems to be the next best LT and with his size and seeming lack of strength (he gets bullied around a lot from what I've seen) he's a 2nd rounder at best.


McNeil and Scott are not really suited to play LT in the pros, I agree. The one I like is junior Joe Thomas out of Wisconsin. If he declares, the Lions taking him at 10 or 11 wouldn't be too much of a reach. Winston Justice has too many character issues. Eric Winston is a very real possibility as a starting LT. However, he is more of a value beyone the first 15.

I keep saying this for our middle line backer-----Anthony Schlegel. He didn't get as much recognition as Hawk or Carpenter, but he is a solid throwback style middle backer with great leadership qualities. He may not have the athleticism of Odell Thurman, but he is going to be a very good NFL player, IMHO. He reminds me of Chris Spielman. He may slip to the third round, but I don't think he will. The Lions could snap him up in round two and he could start immediately. People may think he would be a reach, but those same people probably thought Lofa Tatupu was a reach also (as did I) for the Seahawks.


M2, I agree with you about Schlegel, but I'm keeping an open mind to filling that position in Rd. I think a very likely sceneario has us picking between 9-11 and most of the good talent at our team needs being gone (Ferguson, Mario Williams, Jimmy Williams, Kwinaka). That would leave us with Huff, Hawk, Hodge, Joe Thomas, MJG, when we pick. I think one of those players might be a value when we pick depending on draft boards and combine #'s but after Mario Williams, Kwinaka, and Ferguson are gone I would prefer to move down. I'm not opposed to taking Schlegal as early as the 2nd round, but would obviously avoid it if we take Hodge or Hawk in the first. I understand your sentiment about Schlegal, but who do you draft if we pick 9th and Ferguson, Mario Williams, and Kwinaka are all gone???


December 31st, 2005, 4:59 pm
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I would prefer the trade down scenario as well. However, if for some reason the trade down is not available to us I would take the best available talent. If that happens to be Hawk, then take him. If we can't move Ted inside, maybe Hawk could play inside. If not, we move Boss inside and let Hawk play strong side.

The other option, if he comes out, is Joe Thomas. I think this guy is going to be very good in the NFL. He is athletic, strong and mean. If the Advisory Board gives him a high first round grade he may jump.

In my opinion Hodge, MJG and Huff are not worthy of top ten picks. Hodge and MJG are barely worthy of mid-first (15-22) round picks to me. Hodge doesn't cover as well as he should and Max has weight issues. I still have nightmares about Aaron Gibson when it comes to drafting overweight linemen in the first round. Huff will be a very good safety in the NFL, but I wouldn't rate him worth a top 15 pick. I think a pretty good free safety will be available in later rounds. The Jets, Giants and Bengals were able to land good safety prospects in later rounds in recent drafts. The one I think could be good is Anthony Smith from Syracuse. Marcus Demps and Nate Salley would be other players for the free safety position that could be upgrades over Holt. I hear lots of people talking about selecting a corner and simply moving him to free safety, but not every play is like Eugene Wilson. Not every corner works well in the middle of the field. If by some miracle Huff fell to the second round, or even the late first round, the Lions should do whatever they can to pick him. Trade up ala Kevin Jones if need be.

What's going to hurt the Lions is their lack of picks. They are without their fourth and seventh rounders this season (again). They will probably get a comp pick for McDougle. But since he wasn't a starter for much of the season, I can't see it being more than a sixth rounder.

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January 1st, 2006, 12:45 pm
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m2karateman wrote:
I would prefer the trade down scenario as well. However, if for some reason the trade down is not available to us I would take the best available talent. If that happens to be Hawk, then take him. If we can't move Ted inside, maybe Hawk could play inside. If not, we move Boss inside and let Hawk play strong side.

The other option, if he comes out, is Joe Thomas. I think this guy is going to be very good in the NFL. He is athletic, strong and mean. If the Advisory Board gives him a high first round grade he may jump.

In my opinion Hodge, MJG and Huff are not worthy of top ten picks. Hodge and MJG are barely worthy of mid-first (15-22) round picks to me. Hodge doesn't cover as well as he should and Max has weight issues. I still have nightmares about Aaron Gibson when it comes to drafting overweight linemen in the first round. Huff will be a very good safety in the NFL, but I wouldn't rate him worth a top 15 pick. I think a pretty good free safety will be available in later rounds. The Jets, Giants and Bengals were able to land good safety prospects in later rounds in recent drafts. The one I think could be good is Anthony Smith from Syracuse. Marcus Demps and Nate Salley would be other players for the free safety position that could be upgrades over Holt. I hear lots of people talking about selecting a corner and simply moving him to free safety, but not every play is like Eugene Wilson. Not every corner works well in the middle of the field. If by some miracle Huff fell to the second round, or even the late first round, the Lions should do whatever they can to pick him. Trade up ala Kevin Jones if need be.

What's going to hurt the Lions is their lack of picks. They are without their fourth and seventh rounders this season (again). They will probably get a comp pick for McDougle. But since he wasn't a starter for much of the season, I can't see it being more than a sixth rounder.


I agree with everything you say here. There are currently four players I would want if we're picking 7-11... and only four. I have a preference as to which we get, but I would be happy with any of them. In order my preference is Mario Williams, Ferguson, Kawinika, and Jimmy Williams. I really don't want Jimmy Williams at all, not as a FS and not as a CB, but I would take him if he's available when we pick. He is good value and fills a need. IMO that's all you can ask for in the draft. I know many would prefer Ferguson over Mario Williams, but I really feel that Mario is one of those once in a decade physical talents. As I have expressed elsewhere, even to fill a need, you don't pass on that .

LT IMO is the biggest need on the team. But as evident by the Pitt game today our D needs some serious help. Many think that it is silly upgrading what is perhaps our strongest area of the D (the DL), but IMO a top notch pass rushing every down DE would make the single most improvement on our line. Helping stop the run, helping the DB's by rushing the pass, and helping to create long yardage sitatutions by tackeling players for a loss and getting sacks would be a HUGE asset to our D. I really think the Ferguson talk is a non-sequitor as IMO he will be gone anyways. Joe Thomas is intreguing, but IMO it is a reach to take a project Junior top 15. Ideally we'll pick up a FA LT and will only need to "up grade" rather than fill that spot when the draft rolls around. I'm extremely pissed at Millen for seriously not filling ONE NEED in last year's draft. We went into last year needing a LG, FS, DE, and MLB... now we have those SAME NEEDS plus a LT and possibly a kicker. Hanson isn't getting any younger and struggled this year. Hopefully we can get another season or two out of him.

M2... Don't be worried about Max Jean and his weight.... He is a little heavey at 368 or w/e... but he's athletic and most important... the guy is MEAN! IMO that is Gibson's biggest problem... he's a big azz sissy. They guy won't play hurt, and he doesn't have that kill the guy in front of you attitude. I was concerned with weight regarding Vernon Carey and Elton Brown, but not so much with MJG... maybe I'm blinded by his collegiate accomplishment and perhaps the lack of similar size in the college ranks. Certainly MJG's weight won't be as big of an asset in the NLF, but like I said, he's athletic too. I just like that he punishes guys. I will admit though, that even Aaron Gibson seemed "athletic" in college.. so maybe I am being a little partial.

My biggest concern with MJG is fitment. What I mean by that is having a solid coheisive OL, that works in concert with a plan. We have Woody and Butler who I think would compliment MJG well, but then we have Backus and Raiola who do not! IMO that is our biggest problem. I think Raiola could be an allstar in Denver, but sux here. I think you need an OL of brusiers or an OL of finess blockers. It seems helpful to have one big bruiser in the middle even if you're a finess squad (a big fat azz to stand there and take on the DT), but to have a mix of this and that doesn't seem to work.


January 1st, 2006, 6:07 pm
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Quote:
I would prefer the trade down scenario as well. However, if for some reason the trade down is not available to us I would take the best available talent. If that happens to be Hawk, then take him. If we can't move Ted inside, maybe Hawk could play inside. If not, we move Boss inside and let Hawk play strong side.


I would have to disagree about the LBs, Lehman is a much better WSLB then a MLB and would much rather see him start at WSLB, as far as Hawk playing MLB if that were to happen, he maybe able to do it but if the other starting LBs are Boss Bailey and Lehman the Lions LB unit would be very weak at the point of attack.

The way i see it if the Lions take a MLB for the future he must be aggressive and strong at the point of attack, i think it will be a huge weakness to have three LBs who are poor at the point of attack. Thats why i like m2karateman's suggestion of Anthony Schlegel, he has power, ability to get off blocks, and good feel for plugging running lanes, in short he would allow Bailey and Lehman play more to their strength and that is to chase and tackle.


January 1st, 2006, 6:10 pm
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double post


Last edited by HunterMSU on January 2nd, 2006, 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.



January 1st, 2006, 6:11 pm
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RIP Killer
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HunterMSU wrote:
I would have to disagree about the LBs, Lehman is a much better WSLB then a MLB and would much rather see him start at WSLB, as far as Hawk playing MLB if that were to happen, he maybe able to do it but if the other starting LBs are Boss Bailey and Lehman the Lions LB unit would be very weak at the point of attack.

The way i see it if the Lions take a MLB for the future he must be aggressive and strong at the point of attack, i think it will be a huge weakness to have three LBs who are poor at the point of attack. Thats why i like m2karateman's suggestion of Anthony Schlegel, he has power, ability to get off blocks, and good feel for plugging running lanes, in short he would allow Bailey and Lehman play more to their strength and that is to chase and tackle.


I actually don't want the Lions to try Lehman in the middle (again). I felt since Boss came back that Ted should have been starting on the weakside. Davis is terrible, and proved it again today. Leave it to the Lions to have their worst linebacker stay healthy all year.

I don't want the Lions to take a 'project' MLB in the draft. I would prefer they took an actual college MLB who has shown the abilities you have covered. The other thing I like about Schlegel is that he played at the Naval Academy and was defensive captain in his sophomore year. THAT tells me volumes about this kid. He is a leader, and that is something this team needs desperately. He is disciplined and he does what he needs to in order to win. I hate Ohio State, but they produce some great linebackers, and this kid will be one of them.

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January 1st, 2006, 8:05 pm
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