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RIP Killer
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In my opinion much too early for Leonard Pope. I actually like Vernon Davis more than Pope. Pope is taller, which would help in the red zone.......IF THE LIONS COACH WAKES UP AND DECIDES TO USE THE BIG RECEIVERS IN THAT AREA!!

If the Lions trade down, I don't think taking a young TE in the first round is a bad idea. It will help the offense on both fronts. Marcus is still a good player, but not for much longer and they have to start grooming someone.

Still, the needs on defense can't be overlooked either.

I am waiting until after all the juniors or RS sophs are done declaring before I try and determine who will be taken with picks one through eight.

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January 8th, 2006, 2:38 pm
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Ferris wrote:
Let's just say Millen decides to help the run game and the pass game at the same time

Leornard Pope TE - any takers?


In the first or are you talking 2nd? Pope is okay by not great. I would rather pick up Byrd or The Texas Te than Pope. Pope just has the height what makes he interesting. Everything chqanges now that Young is entering the draft.


January 8th, 2006, 3:25 pm
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Quote:
I would rather pick up Byrd or The Texas Te than Pope. Pope just has the height what makes he interesting. Everything chqanges now that Young is entering the draft.


It is pretty easy for the TEs on Texas and USC to look good in college when they have Young and Bush (respectively) drawing ALL of the attention from the LBs and even the safeties. The guys in zone coverage TEND to forget about a TE when they are responsible for containing AMAZING runners.

Not to mention both teams have WRs on the outside are awfully tough to handle for opposing CBs..........which also draws attention from the safeties.


As far as NFL potential.....................Texas' David Thomas is LISTED at 6'3" and 245 pounds................while Byrd is LISTED at 6'3" and 260 pounds.


Gates........ 6'4"
Gonzo........6'5"
Shockey......6'5"
Heap...........6'5"


Height could be a limiting factor for those 2 players as well. There are certainly some good TEs in the NFL who are under 6'4" tall (Alge Crumpler).........but not many shorter TEs are the total (blocking + receiving) package that Pope could be. Crumpler is more of an exception to the rule thanks to his ......uuhhhh.....THICK? lower body. :wink:


January 8th, 2006, 5:06 pm
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I'd just like to see the Lions start running two or three tightends, I'd like to draft a defensive badass

like AJ Hawk or Michael Huff in the first and trade up for a big TE in the second - like Pope

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January 8th, 2006, 7:11 pm
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i dont know why we would even think about drafting a tight end. We have Pollard and MIKE WILLIAMS. Lets face it, Mike is not giong to be a top notch WR simply because he is too BIG. It makes more sence to let him be more active in the weight room and let him put on another 10-15 pounds and let him make plays at TE. Look at Tony Gonzalez: good hands+adequate blocker=impact player, Pro Bowl even. We need OL help the most, if we cannot get Ferguson or DE Mario Williams we have to look at trading back so we can get better value out of our pick.


January 9th, 2006, 7:33 pm
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thauser wrote:
i dont know why we would even think about drafting a tight end. We have Pollard and MIKE WILLIAMS. Lets face it, Mike is not giong to be a top notch WR simply because he is too BIG. It makes more sence to let him be more active in the weight room and let him put on another 10-15 pounds and let him make plays at TE. Look at Tony Gonzalez: good hands+adequate blocker=impact player, Pro Bowl even. We need OL help the most, if we cannot get Ferguson or DE Mario Williams we have to look at trading back so we can get better value out of our pick.


Well stated!! I would love to trade down and pick up Ahmad Brooks or Michael Huff in the mid first round and drafting an OT late in the first or early in the second with our additional pick. HOwever, if the Lions do not retain Joey Harrington then the QB situation becomes critical and the Lions might have to draft a QB like Jay Cutler (who is the best QB available for us)


January 9th, 2006, 7:53 pm
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Quote:
I would love to trade down and pick up Ahmad Brooks or Michael Huff in the mid first round and drafting an OT late in the first or early in the second with our additional pick



IF we can work out a trade down........it isn't very likely that we are going to get a 2nd rounder to move down..............unless we drop at least 7 or 8 spots.

That 2nd round pick would then be in the #50 overall range..........in addition to our 2nd rounder at #40 overall.



As far the "position" selected with those picks........I think depends a lot on whether Jeff Backus is re-signed.

If Backus leaves...........I'd be VERY surprised if the Lions don't take OLT in round 1.

If Backus stays...........I'd expect a defensive player in the 1st round.........and then possibly an OG in the 2nd round. If we have an extra 2nd rounder........perhaps another defensive player or maybe an OT if Millen thinks it is a good value pick.


But I think IF Backus stays.........then Millen has made the decision that the O-line can succeed with him at OLT.............and the chances of selecting an OT early in the draft become less likely.


January 9th, 2006, 8:31 pm
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thauser wrote:
i dont know why we would even think about drafting a tight end. We have Pollard and MIKE WILLIAMS. Lets face it, Mike is not giong to be a top notch WR simply because he is too BIG. It makes more sence to let him be more active in the weight room and let him put on another 10-15 pounds and let him make plays at TE. Look at Tony Gonzalez: good hands+adequate blocker=impact player, Pro Bowl even. We need OL help the most, if we cannot get Ferguson or DE Mario Williams we have to look at trading back so we can get better value out of our pick.


OK, let's get something straight. Mike Williams is NOT a tight end and won't be one in this league. He doesn't have the frame to put on another 30-40 pounds (which, at his height, he would need to do for playing tight end in the very least). Mike is not going to burn anybody deep, but that isn't his forte. Wayne Chrebet never had sprinter speed but made a damn good living getting open and being a reliable possession receiver. With 4.6-4.7 speed, Mike can still be a good receiver. He needs to be developed. That's the key here people, none of our young offensive talent has been properly developed.......NONE of them. This includes our wide receivers, our quarterbacks and our running backs. Mariucci messed up everything with his refusing to work with the young talent. I swear, the man should be put on trial for imitating a football coach.

So please, stop with the 'switch BMW to tight end' talk. That isn't an option. Why? Because he signed a contract to play wide receiver in the NFL. He played one season after having had a full year out of the game. Let him get his conditioning, let him train under a head coach and staff that demand more from him, and let him have a fair chance at becoming the football player most people understand he can become.

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January 9th, 2006, 8:40 pm
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phunnypharm wrote:
Quote:
I would love to trade down and pick up Ahmad Brooks or Michael Huff in the mid first round and drafting an OT late in the first or early in the second with our additional pick



IF we can work out a trade down........it isn't very likely that we are going to get a 2nd rounder to move down..............unless we drop at least 7 or 8 spots.

That 2nd round pick would then be in the #50 overall range..........in addition to our 2nd rounder at #40 overall.



As far the "position" selected with those picks........I think depends a lot on whether Jeff Backus is re-signed.

If Backus leaves...........I'd be VERY surprised if the Lions don't take OLT in round 1.

If Backus stays...........I'd expect a defensive player in the 1st round.........and then possibly an OG in the 2nd round. If we have an extra 2nd rounder........perhaps another defensive player or maybe an OT if Millen thinks it is a good value pick.


But I think IF Backus stays.........then Millen has made the decision that the O-line can succeed with him at OLT.............and the chances of selecting an OT early in the draft become less likely.


Most teams aren't willing to part with a second rounder to move up that far. The only second rounder a team will usually trade away is for the following years draft. That being said, if the Lions somehow got a team to offer a second rounder (I doubt Cleveland will make that mistake again) it would probably be Dallas. The currently have the 18th overall pick, and trading that with their second rounder and a sixth rounder would get them the Lions 9th pick. All this according to my handy dandy Draft Pick Trade Value Chart.

As for the O-line, there are many things to consider. The new head coach and his style of rushing offense will determine what type of linemen we need. Zone blocking schemes just don't suit our line, but neither does a power running game. With Jones having power, speed and good cutback ability, we should depend more on misdirection plays than the offense has. We have to get a left guard that can pull effectively. It just so happens that Demulling and Kosier have that capability.

Kosier needs to be kept here for his versatility. If Jeff Backus is re-signed, the Lions should still look into round three for a backup left tackle. Kosier should be backing up the two guards and right tackle position. If Demulling and Loverne can't handle the starting job, cut them and get a free agent guard who fits the bill. I would prefer not to have a rookie guard between Backus and Raiola since frequently one or both of them need help on their blocking assignments and a veteran has the experience to know which way to go.

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January 9th, 2006, 8:55 pm
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Quote:
Most teams aren't willing to part with a second rounder to move up that far


I agree.


I think our best chance of a trade down is to get a 3rd rounder for moving down 3 to 5 spots...........as we already discussed in the "potential trade downs"


January 9th, 2006, 9:08 pm
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phunnypharm wrote:
Quote:
Most teams aren't willing to part with a second rounder to move up that far


I agree.


I think our best chance of a trade down is to get a 3rd rounder for moving down 3 to 5 spots...........as we already discussed in the "potential trade downs"


Exactly. With an extra third rounder we can still find a very good player to fill a need. This draft will have good depth into the third round. If we trade down with Cleveland, we can get their third round pick so that they can ensure themselves of getting DT Haloti Ngata if Buffalo bypasses him. The Cardinals would consider taking him. If that happens, we can take Michael Huff to play either FS or CB. If the Rams take Huff, we can consider Winston Justice, Eric Winston or Kiwanuka if he falls. In round two we can either take Anthony Schlegel or trade down again and maybe pick up a fourth or fifth. In round three we can get a guard and some depth at linebacker. Our most critical need is along the offensive line, but our need quantity is on defense. A starting corner, a starting free safety and a starting middle linebacker. We won't use the draft to get all of that (I hope), but as a GM Millen has to look at all the possibilities.

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January 9th, 2006, 9:55 pm
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thauser wrote:
i dont know why we would even think about drafting a tight end. We have Pollard and MIKE WILLIAMS. Lets face it, Mike is not giong to be a top notch WR simply because he is too BIG. It makes more sence to let him be more active in the weight room and let him put on another 10-15 pounds and let him make plays at TE. Look at Tony Gonzalez: good hands+adequate blocker=impact player, Pro Bowl even. We need OL help the most, if we cannot get Ferguson or DE Mario Williams we have to look at trading back so we can get better value out of our pick.


Mike Williams is pretty similar to Keyshawn Johnson, the only difference is Mike Williams lacks the effort and toughness, he has the physical ability but he has been lazy thus far.

As for moving him to TE, IMO its a poor idea, Mike Williams is a poor blocker even as a WR, plus he drops alot of balls in traffic.

Quote:
As for the O-line, there are many things to consider. The new head coach and his style of rushing offense will determine what type of linemen we need. Zone blocking schemes just don't suit our line, but neither does a power running game. With Jones having power, speed and good cutback ability, we should depend more on misdirection plays than the offense has. We have to get a left guard that can pull effectively. It just so happens that Demulling and Kosier have that capability.

Kosier needs to be kept here for his versatility. If Jeff Backus is re-signed, the Lions should still look into round three for a backup left tackle. Kosier should be backing up the two guards and right tackle position. If Demulling and Loverne can't handle the starting job, cut them and get a free agent guard who fits the bill. I would prefer not to have a rookie guard between Backus and Raiola since frequently one or both of them need help on their blocking assignments and a veteran has the experience to know which way to go.


Well thats difficult to topic to address without getting off topic, but in my opinion we have to have a upgrade on the OL, be it at LG, C, or LT at least one of the three positions need to be upgraded, and i think it must be with a player who holds blocks at the point of attack, because i think the Lions have shown that having three poor blockers at the point of attack lined up in a row on the OL will result in being dominated in the run game.


January 9th, 2006, 10:27 pm
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for the QB situation, is kitna gonna be available now that palmers future is uncertain? if hes not then what are the lions gonna do?

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January 9th, 2006, 10:31 pm
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M2... I know your thoughts on Anwar Phillips and we kind of disagree there... I think the kid is going to be an excellent CB and would be a good 2nd or 3rd round pick... but what do you think of Youboty from OSU?... He declared today from what I saw on ESPN... I think he can be good as well.


January 10th, 2006, 1:15 am
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KingDave wrote:
for the QB situation, is kitna gonna be available now that palmers future is uncertain? if hes not then what are the lions gonna do?


Great quesetion. I think everyone really just needs to focus on hiring a coach, first and foremost, before we begin discussing FA and drafts. I know I've gotten all caught up in the hype, but I think everything will be answered as soon as our coach is hired. As soon as our coach is hired we'll know whether he intends to start Joey Harrington or if we'll have to draft another QB to replace him (since there are no QB's to be had in FA, especially since Kitna will be re-signed). And along with this answer, the Lions can start pursuing FA's in other positions leaving us with better understanding of what positions need to be addressed in the NFL Draft.


Who does everyone propose to start at QB next season if Joey Harrington is traded or realeased??? There really aren't any decent FA QB's, so will the Lions go with drafting Jay Cutler?


January 10th, 2006, 5:49 pm
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