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 How Does Marinelli change the draft for the Lions? 
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Joined: October 13th, 2005, 10:34 am
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I don't really think bringing TB to Detroit is an option... unless we want to pickup disgarded offensive rubbish... He may bring in some FA's that he knows from the sqaud, but I have no problem with that... There's nothing wrong with trying to have some familarity with your schemes, but Mooch was ridiculous with it... He may try to draft players that mimick the TB D, but can you blame him???


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Somebody else brought up the Tbay cover 2.. I think that was a kiffin thing, but Marinelli probably will buy into it considering the Bucs were the number 1 ranked defense in the league. The question is if the Lions have the personell to run it. If they don't that will be addressed in F/A I believe. The draft has good depth in the Oline - They need that the most. I am hoping they upgrade TE and RT this year. Resign Backus, and run more in the 2TE plus a FB formation that Tbay had so much success with this season (with a rookie, imagine what KJ could do_). If R.Marinelli knows football like he claims to those will be the area s he addresses



#1........I think Marinelli will install the "Tampa 2" here in Detroit.
I have heard some people call Tampa's defense the "Tampa 2" because they frequently bring the SS up as the 8th man (J. Lynch).

Marinelli has had great success in that defense, and his D-lines were the biggest reason why they had success. If the D-line doesn't get upfield and pressure the QB on their own.........that system doesn't work nearly as well. They don't like to RELY on the blitz.....because that leaves holes in the zone.

#2.......I think MOST of our personnel can excel in this defense!

Most of our LBs are fast and will the system nicely.
..........good fit: Alex Lewis, Boss, Lehman, Curry
......not as good of fit: Holmes, Rainer
......fits, but can he play?......Davis

The good news is that the MLB in a cover 2 doesn't have to be a "take-on" player that gets off of blocks like the traditional MLB........and is therefore easier to fill that position.


D-line:
Rogers.........good fit in any line!
Cody.............quickness should be a good match.
Big daddy......not as quick as they usually use, but rotation will be used.
Bell...............may be asked to come in a few pounds lighter to maximize his quickness.

Kalimba.........great fit. I'm sure Rod wants him back.
Hall...............very good fit for LDE in this system....ok as RDE.
Redding...........may need to move inside to DT more often.
Devries/Swancutt.........hustle players. I think their status depends on the draft.


DBs:

good fit: Bly, Smith, McQuarters, Kennedy (like Lynch)

????.......Wilson, Bryant, Goodman, Holt
.............The 3 CBs may not be physical enough, and Holt may not be fast enough.

The good thing about DBs in the cover 2 is that they can be drafted in round 2 or 3 because they don't have to be elite athletes (aka "shutdown" CBs)


#3..........I would not be surprised if we take Kiwanuka.

The premier athletes in the cover 2 are the D-linemen.

They have to be able to get pressure for the defense to be most effective.
And Kiwanuka fits the cover 2 system perfectly.


January 21st, 2006, 10:51 am
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Very Nice Post Phunny -

I think breaking down the individuals that fit, the way you just did, is the way to start seeing the Lions "needs" in F/A and the Draft. Personally, and this is just MHO here, but I think FS is the only position that NEEDS to be addressed on Defense, The Offense has many more big holes.

Our LB's and DB's are are getting (the young ones) better every season, and It's time for them to "develop" into starters. Thats Marinelli's challenge.

Another thing is ST (special Teams)... They were one of the best in the league until Mooch came here and ruined them with his soft practices.. Last year they were awful, considering how good they were the previous 4 or 5 years. That needs to be addressed as well

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January 21st, 2006, 12:04 pm
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...Question is...is Kiwi even one of the top 2 DEs in the draft?

Mario Williams has been deemed as the next Dwight Freeney and it sure looks like he'll be the first DE off the board. Many draft board and mocks have Tamba Hali going as the 2nd DE and Kiwi as the third. Kiwi's didn't have a great season this year and the other two guys looked dominant.

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January 21st, 2006, 2:00 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
...Question is...is Kiwi even one of the top 2 DEs in the draft?

Mario Williams has been deemed as the next Dwight Freeney and it sure looks like he'll be the first DE off the board. Many draft board and mocks have Tamba Hali going as the 2nd DE and Kiwi as the third. Kiwi's didn't have a great season this year and the other two guys looked dominant.


Mario is nothng like Freeny but more like Peppers

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January 21st, 2006, 2:17 pm
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kiwi is the 2nd rated de ont he boards , and we probaly will take him butlike smeone said its a deep draft at de and lb so we could go for greenway for mlb, and then in the 2nd take a de like tapp , think about that oline, tapp and hall at the ends, big baby , and cody at the dts , and with wilkerson, redding, devries, and edwards thats a killer line , shyt would be amazing, then at lb we are set except at mlb , thats why i dotn know where we are going , gonna have to see who we land in fa , but if they like what they see in kiwi then he goes to us in the 1st and we might trade down , pick up a 3rd rounder . but if we dont trade downor nuthin then , its for sure gonna go , de , ol, fs . its not gonna be hard to bring in fa's now , because we have a respected coach , also look for darren howard in fa .


January 21st, 2006, 4:52 pm
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I think Greenway will last until at least the mid-20s.

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January 21st, 2006, 4:54 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
I think Greenway will last until at least the mid-20s.


It's hard to say... IMO it's impossible to tell and team specific as to whether Greenway, or Hodge will be picked at 12, or 20... Same with Tapp and Hali IMO... I can see one of them rocketing up the draft board al la Ware, and another slippling al la Merriman.


January 21st, 2006, 5:47 pm
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I HIGHLY doubt the Lions are going to take another outside linebacker with the intentions of moving him inside. It didn't work with Lehman. They need to concentrate on getting player that don't have to learn new positions.

Kiwi is the second rated DE on most boards, but not on all boards. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Matthias end up in Detroit, but I am still a big fan of trading down and gathering additional picks. Some mocks have Kiwi going to Cleveland, but he doesn't fit the 3-4 defense well. Besides, the Browns need more help along their offensive line than their defensive line. What they really need is a plugger in the middle. Someone like a Gabe Watson or Steve Fifita. But they are round two or three players.

If the Lions are going to start running a Tampa 2 style defense, they need to make some changes to their secondary and to their defensive line.

FS-Michael Huff would be perfect. A safety with great range, good tackling ability and can man cover when the situation calls for it. Terrence Holt is nowhere near fast enough to play this position in a Cover 2, and should be moved to backup Kennedy.

CB-Dre' Bly is not what one would describe as the typical Cover 2 cornerback. Typically they are bigger corners who excel at open field tackling and are much more physical at the LOS against the receivers. Though Bly can play bump and run, he usually does a poor job at jamming the receivers. Bryant simply does not fit the bill. Too skinny, not physical and doesn't play zone all that well. Kieth Smith is a more prototypical Cover 2 corner than either of these two.

SS-Kenoy is a bit slower than what I would like to see, but he plays well in the box and can make the tackles necessary.

DE-James Hall and Kalimba Edwards would be OK, but definitely not the optimal choices. If the Lions could get another speed rusher of quality, then having Hall, Edwards, Redding and whoever else would be a good rotation. Kiwi would fit this nicely if the Lions decide to go that route. Although I like Jared Devries, he is the odd man out unless the Lions were to keep him and cut Bill Swancutt. I think Jared leaves in FA. A team like Pittsburgh or Cleveland would love to have him as a DE in their 3-4 schemes.

DT-We have the guys we need with Rogers, Wilkinson, Cody and Bell.

MLB- We need a guy with speed and coverage ability. Holmes, Rainer and Woods don't fit the bill. Alex Lewis was a suggestion by someone, and that could be intriguing except for his small stature. He's a better fit as a nickel and dime package backer. If Greenway could prove that moving inside wouldn't be a problem, trading down and taking him would be a nice idea. If Bobby Carpenter falls to round two and the Lions can take him, same thing applies. Anthony Schlegel in round three is what I would prefer. I think he is much better than what most draft board analysts give him credit for.

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January 21st, 2006, 5:48 pm
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M2... Given that we need a MLB with speed and coverage ability do you see us drafting a safety to switch positions (such as Thomas Davis last year, or, I believe anyhow, Urlacher)... Greg Blue, and Darnell Big... both 6'2-6'4" range in the 220's could both be good candidates IMO.. but I disagree with you on Alex Lewis... I too like Schlegal, but I would still like to give Lewis a shot at MLB... He is kind of small, but he's great at shedding blocks (ok.. well maybe not great, but the best on our team IMO), and he plays much bigger than his size would suggest.... and he has good range and given that he was an X safety... he covers better than most LB's....


January 21st, 2006, 6:09 pm
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FS-Michael Huff would be perfect. A safety with great range, good tackling ability and can man cover when the situation calls for it. Terrence Holt is nowhere near fast enough to play this position in a Cover 2, and should be moved to backup Kennedy.


With Rod M. it really makes Micheal Huff a good fit for the Lions, Ko Simpson and Jimmy Williams could also be options, but in a cover two a team really needs a FS with top end range, those three are the only ones who have that kind of speed (and even Simpson might not have the ideal speed), to me that clearly counts out Safeties like Darnell Bing because they are just too slow, and as you said that means Holt must move to SS.

Quote:
CB-Dre' Bly is not what one would describe as the typical Cover 2 cornerback. Typically they are bigger corners who excel at open field tackling and are much more physical at the LOS against the receivers. Though Bly can play bump and run, he usually does a poor job at jamming the receivers. Bryant simply does not fit the bill. Too skinny, not physical and doesn't play zone all that well. Kieth Smith is a more prototypical Cover 2 corner than either of these two.


Well Tampa runs with R. Barber who is less then a great jamming CB, i think Bly could be a decent fit in the cover two and especially considering his knack of forcing fumbles it could be a positive fit.

Though i do agree this means Bryant must be gone, he just dont fit with the cover two. I also would like to Keith Smith get a chance to play a major role.

Quote:
DE-James Hall and Kalimba Edwards would be OK, but definitely not the optimal choices. If the Lions could get another speed rusher of quality, then having Hall, Edwards, Redding and whoever else would be a good rotation. Kiwi would fit this nicely if the Lions decide to go that route. Although I like Jared Devries, he is the odd man out unless the Lions were to keep him and cut Bill Swancutt. I think Jared leaves in FA. A team like Pittsburgh or Cleveland would love to have him as a DE in their 3-4 schemes.


If the Lions run a cover two i just dont see James Hall and Edwards being good enough, in the cover two the front four must be able to get pressure on their own because rarely are extra blitzers sent. I just dont see Hall and Edwards getting consistant pressure on their own.

To me this means the Lions are going to have to look at DEs really hard at #9, even if there is a trade down available, Mario Williams would be a no brainer if available, but Kiwi leaves reservations in my mind as far as his strength, but then again with Rod M. as the HC i think he should be able to get him to hit the weights and hopefully make up for this short coming.

Quote:
MLB- We need a guy with speed and coverage ability. Holmes, Rainer and Woods don't fit the bill. Alex Lewis was a suggestion by someone, and that could be intriguing except for his small stature. He's a better fit as a nickel and dime package backer. If Greenway could prove that moving inside wouldn't be a problem, trading down and taking him would be a nice idea. If Bobby Carpenter falls to round two and the Lions can take him, same thing applies. Anthony Schlegel in round three is what I would prefer. I think he is much better than what most draft board analysts give him credit for.


See the thing that worries me about the idea of getting a fast coverage MLB is we are already light, and poor at shedding blocks at OLB, both Lehman, Bailey, and also Davis are terrible at fighting off blocks, and if we add another lighter guy it could compound the problem of getting run over by a opposing teams running game.

I would like to see the Lions stay with a more traditional MLB, the idea of keeping Holmes and then drafting Schlegal and grooming him to step in slowing at MLB would be ideal.

Also i would stay away from Greenway especially as a MLB, Lehman was more suited to that switch and that failed badly.


January 21st, 2006, 8:43 pm
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what about the mlb from boston college ? late round pick up , could work out . but kiwi is 6'7 260 , he needs to add 25- 30 pounds, and with him and hall at both ends that would be great , all we need is another de , cause our interior is so strong , and kiwi as a rookie adding some weight along with our rotation could be lethal .. nate salley could be pretty good damn i hate saying that , but hes likely to slip to the 3rd round ..


January 21st, 2006, 10:28 pm
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and ive been saying oliver hoyte also .. its alot of ways we could go ..


January 21st, 2006, 10:30 pm
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#1 Overall Pick

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Quote:
but kiwi is 6'7 260 , he needs to add 25- 30 pounds


Simeon Rice is 6'5" and 265 pounds.
Ogunleye is 6'4" and 260 pounds.
Alex Brown is 6'3" and 260 pounds.
Leonard Little is 6'3" and 260 pounds.

Those 4 guys are the players who have had the most success at DE in the "Tampa 2" defense for Chicago, Tampa, and St. Louis.

Lovie Smith was the Rams' DC when Little was most dominant.......and now he has Brown and Ogunleye playing at high levels.

Marinelli is given credit for getting the most our of Simeon Rice.


The "Tampa 2" requires that BOTH of the DEs be able to get after the QB.......and upfield on running plays as well. Therefore, the key with Kiwanuka would be to get him to play with better leverage (lower pads).........but also to keep his excellent quickness. Bulk isn't as necessary in this defense for the DEs.


January 22nd, 2006, 2:31 pm
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I believe unless someone falls or Huff or Williams improves their stock the lions will try to trade down to the 14-19 range. I believe in that range they will take either WIlliams or Huff or take the best available Oline man left. In trading down we should be able to pick up a 3rd and a 5th rounder probably. I hope the lions draft like this


Rnd 1.
Jimmy Williams

2nd
Best Offensive lineman

3rd.
SCheigal

2nd 3rd pick
tapp- I believe he may falll


January 22nd, 2006, 3:22 pm
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Quote:
The "Tampa 2" requires that BOTH of the DEs be able to get after the QB.......and upfield on running plays as well. Therefore, the key with Kiwanuka would be to get him to play with better leverage (lower pads).........but also to keep his excellent quickness. Bulk isn't as necessary in this defense for the DEs.


Well the thing about Kiwi is its not so much the bulk but the physical strength, and willingness to play physical, he is not very strong or have that aggressive mind set as of now.


January 22nd, 2006, 3:53 pm
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