View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 31st, 2014, 5:30 am



Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Great Blue North: AJ Hawk to Lions - Kiper says no. 
Author Message
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10305
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
bigscottyz --

I understand where you're coming from...even though I think it's really relevant.

If M2K asked you for your work, I would probably ask the same questions I asked you, except I have been talking with M2K for a long time and I know what he brings to the table - you on the other hand; I don't know so I'm more skeptical.

Please respond to the paragraph below after reading these posts (it'll help un-confuse me).
bigscottyz wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
And if you want to ask me if I could do as good of a job as him, I could tell you with a very straight face that I could do much better with less information available to me, and often do.


fine then volunteer all of your draft information, analysis, mocks, anything you have as your opinion or work or thoughts on the draft and email it to me at bigscottyz@hotmail.com i'd like to see what you have come up with in preperation for the draft.


Read that sequence of posts and tell me how you're not trying to validate his work. Mike said he could do as good of a job as Kiper and you asked him for his work. What would be the purpose outside of validating it? Who are you to validate it? An expert? Is an "expert" able to validate opinions and thoughts??? THIS was my original confusion and my lack of understanding. Explain this to me and we'll be okay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To everyone reading this thread - I'm sorry for "hi-jacking" this thread!!

BACK TO THE TOPIC -- Kiper is right. There is no way Hawk falls to the Lions. As for Cutler...I think he's a reach at #9 no doubt. This draft is weak in QBs, so #9 may not be a "reach" for him considering the circumstances. I think he is no better than a late first rounder in terms of talent and ability.

_________________
_____
I have no faith this team will win a game the rest of the year. The kitties finish at 7-9 and Miss the playoffs as GB wins out and takes it from the kitties.
Image


February 15th, 2006, 4:38 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
C02-Thanks for having my back. I appreciate your standing in for me.

Brian-Many people don't like Mel Kiper because with all the resources he has at his disposal, he still makes some pretty outrageous (and incorrect) claims during the draft. Overall he does a fair job, but for the money he makes and the information he can get his hands on fair doesn't really cut it. He should be damn near perfect with his player assessments.

Legend-I don't have as much information or time to break down players like Kiper. But apparently I, and many others, don't need that much time to make better analysis than what he does. And what makes you think his analysis is all his own? I suspect he gets a great deal of information from other sources and spins it as his own.

Bigscottyz-I have a job and a home life, as well as my making contributions to this website. Excuse me if my responses can't always be immediate. I don't have to supply you with my draft information because I already supply it for this website, on the home page, with my top ten reports that are now coming out each week. I also have a great deal of other information that I have compiled, but sending it to you would take a great deal of time and effort, and that's something I just don't have the inkling to do. Besides, the draft is in late April, it's mid February, and the Combines and Pro Days haven't happened yet. Things are about to get very shaken up. And I don't need you or anybody else taking information that is weeks old and using it to badmouth me on this forum or anywhere else just for their own pleasures. Draft predicitions are based on opinions, nobody knows how it will turn out until after it's done. Some people, like Kiper, have incredible amounts of information at their disposal and do less with it than people like you and I. But the so-called 'experts' get paid for what they do, and that's what opens them up to our criticisms.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


February 15th, 2006, 5:07 pm
Profile
BANNED

Joined: December 10th, 2005, 6:47 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
conversion02 wrote:
bigscottyz --

I understand where you're coming from...even though I think it's really relevant.

If M2K asked you for your work, I would probably ask the same questions I asked you, except I have been talking with M2K for a long time and I know what he brings to the table - you on the other hand; I don't know so I'm more skeptical.

Please respond to the paragraph below after reading these posts (it'll help un-confuse me).
bigscottyz wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
And if you want to ask me if I could do as good of a job as him, I could tell you with a very straight face that I could do much better with less information available to me, and often do.


fine then volunteer all of your draft information, analysis, mocks, anything you have as your opinion or work or thoughts on the draft and email it to me at bigscottyz@hotmail.com i'd like to see what you have come up with in preperation for the draft.


Read that sequence of posts and tell me how you're not trying to validate his work. Mike said he could do as good of a job as Kiper and you asked him for his work. What would be the purpose outside of validating it? Who are you to validate it? An expert? Is an "expert" able to validate opinions and thoughts??? THIS was my original confusion and my lack of understanding. Explain this to me and we'll be okay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To everyone reading this thread - I'm sorry for "hi-jacking" this thread!!

BACK TO THE TOPIC -- Kiper is right. There is no way Hawk falls to the Lions. As for Cutler...I think he's a reach at #9 no doubt. This draft is weak in QBs, so #9 may not be a "reach" for him considering the circumstances. I think he is no better than a late first rounder in terms of talent and ability.


well its a moot point as of now, as he just replied back with no indication that he would be willing to share the work due to his limited amount of time. i'm still not sure what you mean by "validating" the work. i just wanted to see what he had developed. he made a claim that he had "something" that was at least comparable to the quality of information that Kiper produces. I was curious to see what his "something" looked like, i dont know if he's talking about a paragraph analysis on every player, or an excel sheet with ratings and nothign else, a mock draft, a team needs list, etc. etc. I have no idea what he has self produced and in order to understand him and where he is coming from, i would need to see what we were even talking about. I, myself, i have all my thoughts and ideas on one Word file and one Excel file, that can simply be emailed.

So since I have developed a very basic and simple 2 files worth of documents that can quickly and instantaneiously be emailed i figured perhaps he had the same, and i wanted to take a look at it and see what "it" was.


February 15th, 2006, 6:14 pm
Profile
BANNED

Joined: December 10th, 2005, 6:47 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
C02-Thanks for having my back. I appreciate your standing in for me.

Bigscottyz-I have a job and a home life, as well as my making contributions to this website. Excuse me if my responses can't always be immediate. I don't have to supply you with my draft information because I already supply it for this website, on the home page, with my top ten reports that are now coming out each week. I also have a great deal of other information that I have compiled, but sending it to you would take a great deal of time and effort, and that's something I just don't have the inkling to do. Besides, the draft is in late April, it's mid February, and the Combines and Pro Days haven't happened yet. Things are about to get very shaken up. And I don't need you or anybody else taking information that is weeks old and using it to badmouth me on this forum or anywhere else just for their own pleasures. Draft predicitions are based on opinions, nobody knows how it will turn out until after it's done. Some people, like Kiper, have incredible amounts of information at their disposal and do less with it than people like you and I. But the so-called 'experts' get paid for what they do, and that's what opens them up to our criticisms.


i see. well i dont know in what format you even structure any self created content, so it would never have occurred to me that this would be such a daunting task of time.

Take a look at my recent post to C02, so you can see what i just typed back to him and you can see what i was getting at...

""well its a moot point as of now, as he just replied back with no indication that he would be willing to share the work due to his limited amount of time. i'm still not sure what you mean by "validating" the work. i just wanted to see what he had developed. he made a claim that he had "something" that was at least comparable to the quality of information that Kiper produces. I was curious to see what his "something" looked like, i dont know if he's talking about a paragraph analysis on every player, or an excel sheet with ratings and nothign else, a mock draft, a team needs list, etc. etc. I have no idea what he has self produced and in order to understand him and where he is coming from, i would need to see what we were even talking about. I, myself, i have all my thoughts and ideas on one Word file and one Excel file, that can simply be emailed.

So since I have developed a very basic and simple 2 files worth of documents that can quickly and instantaneiously be emailed i figured perhaps he had the same, and i wanted to take a look at it and see what "it" was""


February 15th, 2006, 6:18 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10305
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
bigscottyz wrote:
So since I have developed a very basic and simple 2 files worth of documents that can quickly and instantaneiously be emailed i figured perhaps he had the same, and i wanted to take a look at it and see what "it" was.


Cool. That's what I was curious about.

No hard feelings :)

_________________
_____
I have no faith this team will win a game the rest of the year. The kitties finish at 7-9 and Miss the playoffs as GB wins out and takes it from the kitties.
Image


February 15th, 2006, 6:20 pm
Profile
BANNED

Joined: December 10th, 2005, 6:47 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
conversion02 wrote:
bigscottyz wrote:
No hard feelings :)


ok but not sure why there would even be hard feelings anyhow??

by the way, there isnt a way for me to make a post on here with my excel file is there? otherwise i'd be happy to share it in a thread if you know how.


February 15th, 2006, 6:26 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
bigscottyz wrote:
well its a moot point as of now, as he just replied back with no indication that he would be willing to share the work due to his limited amount of time. i'm still not sure what you mean by "validating" the work. i just wanted to see what he had developed. he made a claim that he had "something" that was at least comparable to the quality of information that Kiper produces. I was curious to see what his "something" looked like, i dont know if he's talking about a paragraph analysis on every player, or an excel sheet with ratings and nothign else, a mock draft, a team needs list, etc. etc. I have no idea what he has self produced and in order to understand him and where he is coming from, i would need to see what we were even talking about. I, myself, i have all my thoughts and ideas on one Word file and one Excel file, that can simply be emailed.

So since I have developed a very basic and simple 2 files worth of documents that can quickly and instantaneiously be emailed i figured perhaps he had the same, and i wanted to take a look at it and see what "it" was.


Re-read what I posted. I DO share what I have in the form of top 10 lists for this website, and I share it with more than just you. Also, I never said I had as much information as Kiper to produce. I doubt anybody does. I can't speak to the level that he does on every player in the draft. However, none of us has the resources he does. And trust me, he is getting the bulk of his player info from other sources, not his own tape watching and player analysis. That said, what I originally posted is that I feel that I, and many others, make better predictions on how well players will do in the NFL and where they will be taken in the draft. I have made assumptions that were incorrect, but who hasn't? Difference is, Kiper gets much more information, does it for a living, gets paid millions to make his predictions and analysis, and does a pretty pathetic job of it when compared to others.

And like I also said the information I have right now is going to be constantly changing over the next few weeks. Why send you what I have now, just to have to update it time and again? My player rankings is in a very liquid state right now. I have 270 players ranked, and will most likely be adding more as more information becomes available via Pro Days and Combine workouts.

And before you want to blast me again for not sharing information, tell me, how much information is Mel willing to share with you or anyone else without charging a bunch of money?

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


February 15th, 2006, 6:39 pm
Profile
BANNED

Joined: December 10th, 2005, 6:47 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
bigscottyz wrote:
well its a moot point as of now, as he just replied back with no indication that he would be willing to share the work due to his limited amount of time. i'm still not sure what you mean by "validating" the work. i just wanted to see what he had developed. he made a claim that he had "something" that was at least comparable to the quality of information that Kiper produces. I was curious to see what his "something" looked like, i dont know if he's talking about a paragraph analysis on every player, or an excel sheet with ratings and nothign else, a mock draft, a team needs list, etc. etc. I have no idea what he has self produced and in order to understand him and where he is coming from, i would need to see what we were even talking about. I, myself, i have all my thoughts and ideas on one Word file and one Excel file, that can simply be emailed.

So since I have developed a very basic and simple 2 files worth of documents that can quickly and instantaneiously be emailed i figured perhaps he had the same, and i wanted to take a look at it and see what "it" was.


Re-read what I posted. I DO share what I have in the form of top 10 lists for this website, and I share it with more than just you. Also, I never said I had as much information as Kiper to produce. I doubt anybody does. I can't speak to the level that he does on every player in the draft. However, none of us has the resources he does. And trust me, he is getting the bulk of his player info from other sources, not his own tape watching and player analysis. That said, what I originally posted is that I feel that I, and many others, make better predictions on how well players will do in the NFL and where they will be taken in the draft. I have made assumptions that were incorrect, but who hasn't? Difference is, Kiper gets much more information, does it for a living, gets paid millions to make his predictions and analysis, and does a pretty pathetic job of it when compared to others.

And like I also said the information I have right now is going to be constantly changing over the next few weeks. Why send you what I have now, just to have to update it time and again? My player rankings is in a very liquid state right now. I have 270 players ranked, and will most likely be adding more as more information becomes available via Pro Days and Combine workouts.

And before you want to blast me again for not sharing information, tell me, how much information is Mel willing to share with you or anyone else without charging a bunch of money?


well Mel hasnt shared any information because i haven't asked him to yet. and i didnt say i expect you to have a lot of information, nor would i expect you to have complete thorough perfect information considering the time frame we are currently at pre-combine and pre-free agency. EVERYBODY in the world has a liquid form of draft information, it's all practically garbage guesswork at this point, but nevertheless its fun and educational to learn as much as we can to prepare us for providing better future information. the more information and opinions available, the better it is for all.

and in response to why send it now instead of a few weeks, was back to my theory that it could be only one email attachment away, and why wait for something 2 weeks that you can have today? in 2 weeks it wont exist anymore cause it wouild be something different anyhow.


February 15th, 2006, 6:50 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
I understand. I'll see what I can get for you. The reason it would take some time for me to send it is because the information , being in a working state, is not exactly an easy read right now. I would have to do some cleanup. Almost all my information is in Excel. Most of it is contained in one file, with at least a dozen worksheets (I forget how many). The different worksheets consist of my player draft rankings, team needs, current team picks, current free agents, trade possibilities, several mock drafts, different lions draft scenarios, different lions trade scenarios, and a rating of each of the Lions positions and their current players.

Needless to say, it's a lot to keep up with. Cap that with having a family, work, school and little free time to fulfill my obligations to Lionbacker. But, like you say, it's fun to do the research and get other peoples insights and viewpoints.

By the way, I have posted a few mock drafts in the Lionbacker Drafts thread. The last one is a two rounder with one trade (Miami trades up to Detroit in Round one).

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


February 15th, 2006, 7:15 pm
Profile
QB Coach

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 8:33 pm
Posts: 3222
Post 
conversion02 wrote:
Are you validating whether M2K's are his own or ideas he lifted from so-called experts such as Scott Wright, Mel Kiper, or Rick Gosselin?


Don't put Scott Wright's name up there with Gosselin and Kiper... [-X

:lol:


February 15th, 2006, 9:13 pm
Profile WWW
Div 1 - Starter
User avatar

Joined: January 10th, 2006, 6:08 pm
Posts: 531
Post 
conversion02 wrote:
QB, RT, and DE?

Great job Kiper! How about FS, LT, LG, and DE? Considering we don't have anyone who can play LT if Backus leaves...idiot. He has apparently never watched a Lions game because he would have noticed that Raiola gets owned most of the time and having a small LG next to him, such as DeMulling or Kosier, doesn't help.

Kiper obviously hasn't done his hw on the Lions...again, he fails to impress.

well said. i dont like Kiper, his opinions are very overrated IMO. i think a speedy DE, OG, C, FS, cover 2 MLB, and a physical CB are the lions biggest needs. and they can be filled in the second round, trade down to get more picks to fill more needs...and dont take cutler


Kiper sucks


February 15th, 2006, 9:41 pm
Profile
BANNED

Joined: December 10th, 2005, 6:47 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
I understand. I'll see what I can get for you. The reason it would take some time for me to send it is because the information , being in a working state, is not exactly an easy read right now. I would have to do some cleanup. Almost all my information is in Excel. Most of it is contained in one file, with at least a dozen worksheets (I forget how many). The different worksheets consist of my player draft rankings, team needs, current team picks, current free agents, trade possibilities, several mock drafts, different lions draft scenarios, different lions trade scenarios, and a rating of each of the Lions positions and their current players.

Needless to say, it's a lot to keep up with. Cap that with having a family, work, school and little free time to fulfill my obligations to Lionbacker. But, like you say, it's fun to do the research and get other peoples insights and viewpoints.

By the way, I have posted a few mock drafts in the Lionbacker Drafts thread. The last one is a two rounder with one trade (Miami trades up to Detroit in Round one).


where is the drafts thread? what is it titled?


February 15th, 2006, 10:31 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10305
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
Section titled "LIONBACKER DRAFT"

http://www.lionbacker.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=16

_________________
_____
I have no faith this team will win a game the rest of the year. The kitties finish at 7-9 and Miss the playoffs as GB wins out and takes it from the kitties.
Image


February 15th, 2006, 10:34 pm
Profile
BANNED

Joined: December 10th, 2005, 6:47 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
conversion02 wrote:


maybe i'm crazy but i dont see the section with that title. and this link says the forum doesnt exist?


February 15th, 2006, 10:44 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9908
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
It's possible that the thread isn't open to everyone. It was originally used as the thread in which we ran our Forum Mock Draft last year. It has sort of evolved from there. I will ask Alpha and/or Pablo to open it to all via PM.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


February 15th, 2006, 11:15 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.