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 I'm back and dreaming!!!!!!!! 
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LionFan57 wrote:

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Brian I disagree.

Should this trade take place; Us getting Ferguson and them getting Cutler is not a forgone conclusion for either team. There's no guarantee that either player would be there for either team.

There's nothing about this deal that I like and frankly it doesn't even make sense




i suggested this trade with the scenario that when the lions are selecting
#9 and cutler is available and d'brick has already been selected by the jets at #4 that would be the trade offered to the jets by the lions.

and lion fan 57, if you can't see any sense in this trade then i am baffled by that to say the least.

remember, i am dreaming here but imo d'brick is worth every sent.

maybe charles rogers instead of mike williams who has yet to show what talents he may possess.
mike williams at this time can't run a route to save his life.

i think williams with 10-20 more pounds of muscle would be a dynamite tight-end, what you think???????
he possess the ability to cover the field in 10-20 yard spurts.
he's not a 40plus yards after the catch but should be utilized in 3rd and long situations.

remember guys, don't look into this more than it is, it's just a discussion to start the draft talk in motion.

if you don't sure-up the o'line joey and kevin jones will continue to have poor showings each and every sunday!!!!!!!!!


February 19th, 2006, 12:55 pm
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2005lion wrote:
LionFan57 wrote:
Brian I disagree.

Should this trade take place; Us getting Ferguson and them getting Cutler is not a forgone conclusion for either team. There's no guarantee that either player would be there for either team.

There's nothing about this deal that I like and frankly it doesn't even make sense




i suggested this trade with the scenario that when the lions are selecting
#9 and cutler is available and d'brick has already been selected by the jets at #4 that would be the trade offered to the jets by the lions.

and lion fan 57, if you can't see any sense in this trade then i am baffled by that to say the least.

remember, i am dreaming here but imo d'brick is worth every sent.

maybe charles rogers instead of mike williams who has yet to show what talents he may possess.
mike williams at this time can't run a route to save his life.

i think williams with 10-20 more pounds of muscle would be a dynamite tight-end, what you think???????
he possess the ability to cover the field in 10-20 yard spurts.
he's not a 40plus yards after the catch but should be utilized in 3rd and long situations.

remember guys, don't look into this more than it is, it's just a discussion to start the draft talk in motion.

if you don't sure-up the o'line joey and kevin jones will continue to have poor showings each and every sunday!!!!!!!!!



First, I'm just biased about (but not completely opposed to) investing extremely high 1st round picks into lineman because they take years to fully develop. (All of them, even Brick - and Gallery last year). Even if they begin to hit their best in 3 years they're almost at the end of their first contract with the team. Furthermore, the Lions track record with 1st round O-linemen is far from spectacular.

I totally agree we have to fix the O-line but I suspect we're about to resign Backus and given a far superior coaching staff to what we've seen I suspect his play will be vastly improved - as will the entire line.

Second, even if I believed we should invest a 1st round pick into a lineman; as I said before in this thread (and so did M2K) that we could wait and get Winston Justice. I agree that D'Brick is a preferred player over WJ but the DIFFERENCE between the two simply isn't worth what we'd be giving up.

Third, What we'd be giving up is BMW and even worse, IMO, is an enormous cap hit because of it. I would be more inclined to trade Charles Rogers but I'm not convinced he's worth it either although the cap hit may not be as bad. The deal breaker for me there is next years # 3.

Remember the cap hit on either of these guys is enough to prevent the signing of another free agent and we have 23 to replace this year.

Don't forget the total cost of this trade is; 1) A top 10 drafted player. 2) His cap hit. 3) Next years # 3 pick. And the only thing we get in return is the difference between 2 unproven top ten drafted rookie linemen. You're not getting D'Brick as much as you're getting the difference between D'Brick and WJ.

The more I talk about this the more I'm convinced this is a bad deal. The Jets should be giving us next years # 3 pick as payment for saving them Millions on a QB in a year where they are in cap hell.

This deal would make more sense to me if we gave them Harrington and our # 9 for their # 4 outright; And, this was step one in a process to get up close enough to grab Leinart by seeking another trade yet to be determined. Then I'd be more in favor of it.

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February 19th, 2006, 2:05 pm
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At first I thought it would be a great trade but the more I think about it the more I agree with LF57. D'Brick is a great OT but for Mike and next years #3 I dont know? I think I would rather trade down with the Dolphins and pick up Winston or Huff or even another O-Lineman or defensive player and get another pick on top from the Dolphins.

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February 19th, 2006, 5:07 pm
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Gallery didn't take time to develop. Oakland was just reluctant to play him, changed positions for him, and now he's finally situating into his position.

Jammal Brown didn't take time. Jordan Gross didn't take time. George Foster didn't take time. Bryant McKinnie didn't take time. Levi Jones didn't take time.

Ferguson is a better prospect than all of those players. I don't see how he isn't a guy you can plug right in there and let him play football.

And Ferguson will be there at #4. Cutler will likely be there at #9.

You don't pass up on the oppurtunity to draft a blue chip player, the kind of guy that will anchor your line for the next 10 years and make pro bowls. However, the Lions don't have the ammo to trade up for him.

We're already missing our 4th and 7th this year. To trade up, we have to give up another first day pick, as well as a second day pick. It's not worth it when you can stay at your pick and get a quality lineman where you stand.


February 19th, 2006, 5:14 pm
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Quote:
First, I'm just biased about (but not completely opposed to) investing extremely high 1st round picks into lineman because they take years to fully develop. (All of them, even Brick - and Gallery last year). Even if they begin to hit their best in 3 years they're almost at the end of their first contract with the team. Furthermore, the Lions track record with 1st round O-linemen is far from spectacular.


Lionsfan57, while that is generally correct there are exceptions to that rule as Brian pointed out. But my point would be even if you assume 2-3 years to develope, if you dont invest in OL talent you are never going to get the elite OL talent that a good team needs, that is when a team that drafts OL talent and developes it does find that dominant player they almost never let him go... So in other words if you never take a top OL prospect to develope you will never get a elite talent, be it a Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, Olin Kruentz, Kevin Mawae, you just dont get a chance at top OL talent in the NFL without drafting it.


February 19th, 2006, 6:23 pm
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HunterMSU wrote:
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First, I'm just biased about (but not completely opposed to) investing extremely high 1st round picks into lineman because they take years to fully develop. (All of them, even Brick - and Gallery last year). Even if they begin to hit their best in 3 years they're almost at the end of their first contract with the team. Furthermore, the Lions track record with 1st round O-linemen is far from spectacular.


Lionsfan57, while that is generally correct there are exceptions to that rule as Brian pointed out. But my point would be even if you assume 2-3 years to develope, if you dont invest in OL talent you are never going to get the elite OL talent that a good team needs, that is when a team that drafts OL talent and developes it does find that dominant player they almost never let him go... So in other words if you never take a top OL prospect to develope you will never get a elite talent, be it a Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, Olin Kruentz, Kevin Mawae, you just dont get a chance at top OL talent in the NFL without drafting it.


While I sort of agree with you Hunter... if I'm not mistakin' Kruentz was a late first day pick.. end of 2nd or 3rd rounder... and Mawae was the same...

While for the most part you have to draft good OL talent, you don't have to do it with an early first round pick... Most of the good LT's are drafted top 15-17 though....


February 19th, 2006, 6:36 pm
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wjb21ndtown, right those two were not 1st rounders, Centers are alittle different then OTs though in that respect, but still the respective teams spotted the talent and developed them, and neither have seen the open market since they came into the league, teams once they find that elite talent dont let them go.


February 19th, 2006, 6:40 pm
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As I said in my earlier post I'm biased against it, but not completely opposed to drafting a 1st round O-lineman.

But please don't make it sound like every 1st round lineman is a stud - for every good one you name I'll name 1 bust and 1 so-so player. And the problem is - we tend to get the busts.

Furthermore, they are never as good in year 1 as they are in year 3 because there is still an NFL maturation process regardless of how good they were in college.

In the case of this trade you're all overlooking my primary point which is simply that we could wait for Justice and get a very capable OT. Whereas giving up a top 10 player; taking a sizable cap hit; plus forfeiting next years # 3 is not worth it to get D'Brick IMO. Not when the second best lineman in the draft is probably available without a cost.

As Brian said we have to many holes to fill and not enough draft day firepower to do it. Ferguson is a luxury we can't afford.

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February 19th, 2006, 7:41 pm
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LionFan57 wrote:
As I said in my earlier post I'm biased against it, but not completely opposed to drafting a 1st round O-lineman.

But please don't make it sound like every 1st round lineman is a stud - for every good one you name I'll name 1 bust and 1 so-so player. And the problem is - we tend to get the busts.

Furthermore, they are never as good in year 1 as they are in year 3 because there is still an NFL maturation process regardless of how good they were in college.

In the case of this trade you're all overlooking my primary point which is simply that we could wait for Justice and get a very capable OT. Whereas giving up a top 10 player; taking a sizable cap hit; plus forfeiting next years # 3 is not worth it to get D'Brick IMO. Not when the second best lineman in the draft is probably available without a cost.

As Brian said we have to many holes to fill and not enough draft day firepower to do it. Ferguson is a luxury we can't afford.


Your right nothing is a sure thing, and i am not in favor of trading up for D'Brickshaw, in fact i think Justice maybe a better OT then Ferguson, but my main point is if you never roll the dice on a top OT prospect your never going to get a great OT, and we will be stuck with below average OTs and with a pocket passing QB that is just not a good way to operate a offense.

But again i am in no way calling for trading up, i say stay put and take Justice at #9, i just want to finally see the OL problem addressed in a serious way and IMO the draft is the only way to do it.


February 19th, 2006, 8:07 pm
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