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 Universal Health Care 
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RIP Killer
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On a different board for my beloved Bucks... they are still singing praises...

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regularjoe12 - "You are crackin me up! really! HILARIOUS um let me quote some intellgent people in this coneversation: Steensn:"


August 12th, 2009, 3:38 pm
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thought this deserved to go here.



Dear Paul,

I thought you would find this of interest. In this recording from 1961, Ronald Reagan discusses socialized medicine.

His remarks are as fresh and relevant today as they were 50 years ago.

Listen to Ronald Reagan.


May have to go to Urbancure.com

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August 15th, 2009, 6:59 pm
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His remarks were mostly in reference to medicare a socialized death panel if there ever has been one in america.

i really dont understand this outrage. having a public option would alleviate pressures on businesses both small and large, and we need to face facts the american healthcare system isnt great. waiting for months to see a specialist, a bureaucrat telling me where i can and cant go sounds more like a hmo then universal health care. you do understand that if you want to pay for more coverage you can, this is just a something that makes sure everyone has basic needs met. theres nothing effiecent about the current system- 1 in 6 dollars in a average house hold goes toward health care and generally two to three times as much as other developed nations yet by all objective standards we finish around 37th in the world(infant mortality, cancer care/prevention, etc)


September 10th, 2009, 2:02 am
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casskid, the problem I have is not that the gov't would run a public option, it's that as it stands right now, the gov't would use our tax dollars to make their program cheaper for EVERYONE than any other option. That is going to

1) Spell the end for private options because they can't compete with artificially low competitors.
2) The gov't isn't planning on what will happen, so the numbers we see now are too low and we will have to raise taxes later to fund this option at the new artificially low rates.

Basically, it is a underfunded and spells the end to millions of jobs and companies out there right now which is terrible for our economy.

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September 10th, 2009, 9:59 am
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I think most agree there needs to be reform. Thats not the basis for the opposition though. There are many ways to fix the system, including mandates and regulations on insurance companies to reduce costs, TORT reform, opening up insurance companies across state lines, etc.. that DON'T require government taking over.

Cash for clunkers came at the perfect time to show just how ineffectively the government can run a program. Medicare/Medicade - broke, Social Security - broke, Post Office - broke. How can we trust a group of elected officials to handle something that the track record has proven they can't. All this from a government that can't balance a budget.

They don't want to take the plan themselves, and they want to make it mandatory to have, like auto insurance in most states. Where in the Constitution does it say the government can force me to have health insurance? Force insurance companies to make an "emergency option" plan, for those that don't feel they need everyday coverage, and it will push down the cost of those that go to the emergency room those rare times they do get sick.

My personal dislike for the system right now actually has very little to do with health care anymore. Like i said, its a dead issue, because we need reform, but not like this. And for every opposing voice to be called racist, brownshirts, and un-american just goes to show that the left has no idea what america is anymore. They had the majority, they had the ability to push it through, but too many realize they'll all be voted out next year because its not what We the people, want or need. Obama said last night in his speech, that only 5% of people would sign up. So do you really put us another 900billion into debt, which future generations will have to pay for, for 5%? Come up with ways to take care of the 5%, not try to start a new business to "compete". Because we know competing in Washington just means funneling our money into their pockets.


September 10th, 2009, 9:59 am
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I didn't watch the speech last night (yeah, I know bad American) and I was wondering, for those of you who did, did he actually lay out anything? Were there actually any details? or pretty much more of the same politicking/campaigning crap?

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September 10th, 2009, 2:31 pm
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I don't think ANYONE doesn't think change has to be made to the system. We just need the change to be for the better and well thought out.

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September 10th, 2009, 2:36 pm
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steensn wrote:
I don't think ANYONE doesn't think change has to be made to the system. We just need the change to be for the better and well thought out.


I agree that change does have to be made; what I'm curious about though is whether or not Barry O finally said WHAT will be changed and HOW it will be changed, instead of the typical political wharrgarbl

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September 10th, 2009, 2:51 pm
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See the problem I have is I'm being forced into paying for something I don't want. If I want health coverage I will pay for it, don't pigeon hole me into something that is going to force me to pay.

An idea that should be investigated is wage garnishment (within reason) and ceasing of IRS refunds for those without medical coverage that REFUSE to pay. A minimum monthly payment should be authorized for those who don't wish to pay everyone else.

Another item that I have is that if you want to really see how the government runs health care, look at the VA. They have done a p1ss poor job of it for our veterans, what makes you think they are going to treat civilians any better. They load the VA up with foreign doctors who barely speak the language, and they provide minimum care. Right now I have a Marine with cancer who is waiting on approval from the VA for a medical procedure he needs to extend his life. He's a combat veteran of Vietnam, who gave a lung, and years of his life for this country, and now he may have to give his life in waiting for the VA to decide on his care. THIS IS THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN HEALTHCARE, CAN WE NOT SEE THE FOREST BECAUSE THE TREES ARE IN THE WAY?

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September 10th, 2009, 3:28 pm
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[quote="njroar"]I think most agree there needs to be reform. Thats not the basis for the opposition though. There are many ways to fix the system, including mandates and regulations on insurance companies to reduce costs, TORT reform, opening up insurance companies across state lines, etc.. that DON'T require government taking over.

Cash for clunkers came at the perfect time to show just how ineffectively the government can run a program. Medicare/Medicade - broke, Social Security - broke, Post Office - broke. How can we trust a group of elected officials to handle something that the track record has proven they can't. All this from a government that can't balance a budget.

Cash for clunkers was a huge success actually and thats what made it "fail". dealerships that had cars sitting on their lots for months suddenly couldnt keep them on, and as a incentive based plan it really jump started parts of the economy. the only failure is that the govt didnt think it would do that well and the money set aside for like a year was gone in a few months.

Obama talked about all those things in the first paragraph and even attributed the ideas to conservative in his speech.

My boss is a nam vet DevilDoc and hes leaving COBRA for his VA benefits. Its cheaper and more timely for regular medication, but he hasnt had to deal with any major operations either. Keep in mind to that benefits were cut during the last administration and not the current one. Not trying to be a prick but would any insurance company touch your friend with all of his pre existing conditions and overall health? im lead to believe that they wouldnt.

to me it comes down to that corporations will only act in their own self interest and when that self interest is peoples lives then its probably a good idea to have a system that isnt looking out for the bottom line in place.

i think the more important thing here is trying to get the facts out, and not just people yelling DEATH PANELS and HITLER at the top of their lungs. Its interesting that Newt had only good things to say about end of life care his father recieved at the pilot program for what the end of life care would be until recently. this is one issue where i think politics really need to be left out.


September 10th, 2009, 9:36 pm
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Yes, politics need be kept out of it, but you're advocating politicians running it.

VA care sucks, unless you're active. You have to wait months for anything. Medication, sure, its no difference than a prescription plan. But for anything else, prepare to wait. Awhile. And was Walter Reed forgotten already?

Cash for Clunkers a success? For the Foreign car makers sure. Dealerships in the US aren't getting paid. And those rebates were all taxed. So its like you being said to sell your $1 item for 80 cents, with a promise you'll get the 20 cents back, but its delayed. But they're taking 5 cents from every discount, so they're getting paid, and you're losing money. If dealers are getting upset, you can imagine what doctors have been dealing with for decades with medicare and not getting reimbursed promptly. If you allocate the money, reimburse it. Don't try to sit it in 6 month CD's so you can pull a profit off money that's not yours.

Death panels was strong language, but what do you call giving incentives to doctors who give end of life counseling and get someone out of the system? People trust there doctors, and giving incentives to save cash that way is walking a thin line. Nazi has been throw out by both sides, but un-american has come from only one.

Btw, i know VA cuts came under Bush, but so did the last big increase. And this health care isn't just a democrat issue, both sides have issues. I don't want government handling my healthcare, and that includes both sides. Congress can fix health care by doing what they have the authority to do... make laws to fix it.


September 11th, 2009, 12:23 am
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Food for thought........

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc

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October 29th, 2009, 10:46 am
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Um, yay?

ABC News wrote:
House Democrats Unveil $894B Health Care Bill
Cost of the Bill is Below The Threshold Set by President Obama, Would Cover 36 Million More Americans

By HUMA KHAN and JONATHAN KARL
Oct. 29, 2009

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., today unveiled the House Democrats' broad new $894 billion health care bill, saying it will provide "universal quality affordable health care for all Americans."

President Obama praised the bill, saying it would benefit small businesses and that those ones that participate in a government-run health care plan could save a quarter on their premiums by 2016.

"As I've said throughout this process, a public option that competes with private insurers is the best way to ensure choice and competition that are so badly needed in today's market. And the House bill clearly meets two of the fundamental criteria I have set out: it is fully paid for and will reduce the deficit in the long term," the president said in a written statement.

The cost of the "Affordable Health Care for America Act" falls under Obama's $900 billion threshold and is considerably lower than the initial estimate of $1 trillion.

One Congressional aide said the final bill could go for a vote by next week but others cautioned that Democrats may not move on it until they have assured there will be ample votes to pass the legislation on the House floor. The bill still has a long way to go before it makes it way to Obama's desk. The House legislation would have to merged with Senate legislation and key differences remain, especially on the type of public option plan that should be included.

This is a "historic moment for our nation and our families," said Pelosi, speaking on the steps at the West Front of the Capitol building. "The drive for health care reform is moving forward."

Congress is "on the cusp of delivering on the promise of making affordable, quality health insurance available to every American -- and laying the foundation for a brighter future for generations to come," she added.

The legislation would insure 36 million more Americans in the next 10 years, covering 96 percent of all Americans, Pelosi said. That is more than the Senate bill currently being negotiated, which would cover an estimated 29 million additional people.

The speaker also said the bill would not add a dime to the deficit, an important factor considering Obama has said he will not a sign any legislation which does so.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the bill would cut the deficit by about $30 million in the first 10 years.

"What a day for Americans and what a day for our people," House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said. "Today we are one step further on one long, hard road."

The proposed legislation would also expand Medicaid coverage and provide more support to low-income citizens.

Republicans, as expected, assailed the Pelosi bill, saying its 1,990 pages don't reflect any change.

House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, billed it as a "government takeover of the health care system."

The Democrats' legislation has "over 50 new mandates, bureaucracies, tax hikes, commissions -- All of this is going to require tens of thousands of new federal employees, which is fairly designed for a government takeover of our health care system," Boehner, with a printout of the entire bill in front of him, told reporters. "How are we going to fix out health care system with 1,990 pages of bureaucracy?"

Inching Closer to Health Care Legislation

As House Democratic leaders unveiled the bill, their Senate counterparts await estimates from CBO on the finalized bill.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said earlier this week the Senate legislation will include a public option plan, but he did not divulge any more details.

The House Democrats' bill does include a public option, but it is not the Medicare-like public option that Pelosi wanted. The government-run insurance company created by the proposed bill would negotiate payment rates with health care providers just like private insurance companies. Pelosi simply could not get the votes to pass the "robust" version she preferred.

White House officials said today they have yet to evaluate the legislation, and defended the public option as a plan that would drive down costs, not increase them.

"You've seen people say that this is going to drive policies up in price. I don't think that -- I think whenever you're adding more choices through greater competition into the health care system, you're driving down costs," White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters. "That's what the president wants to see. That's a big aim in health care reform, and I think that's what we're working toward."

The House Democrats' also creates a health insurance exchange whereby those who do not get insured through their employers can shop for coverage.

The House bill would require nearly all Americans to sign up for health coverage by 2013, either through their employer, a government program or the new exchange

There is also an individual mandate requiring all Americans to have health insurance, although the penalties for non-compliance are lower than penalties in the Senate bill, which imposes a maximum fine of $1,500 for families who forgo insurance.

The House bill also includes an employer mandate. Companies who don't offer health insurance will be slapped with a fine, but small businesses are exempt.

The bill will be paid for, in part, with a 5.4 percent surtax imposed on those with incomes over $500,000 for individuals, $1 million for families. This tax increase is likely to be a key point of contention between Democrats, as the Senate version doesn't include this tax.

The House bill contains a long list of insurance reforms, including banning denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, mandating wellness and prevention coverage, capping out of pocket expenses and prohibiting caps on benefits.

As Pelosi spoke, demonstrators tried to interrupt her remarks, but they were moved quickly by the police.

ABC News' Dean Norland contributed to this report.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/HealthCare/hou ... 527&page=2


I wonder if they'll make it publiccaly available for review before the final vote? (probably not...:rolleyes:)

What I would like to know is if this is such a HUGE, important issue for ALL Americans, they why don't they put it to a PUBLIC vote? We already have a designated "Election" day every year, why not use it?

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October 29th, 2009, 1:49 pm
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This is just a mess...

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October 29th, 2009, 2:23 pm
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steensn wrote:
This is just a mess...


I agree. IMO they're trying to do too much at once.

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October 29th, 2009, 2:47 pm
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