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 Android Phones 
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RIP Killer
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Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Android Phones
To understate the impact of not supporting flash shows a keen bias for sure. You wrote it off because of what? The "success" they've had so far. What I usually see in these convos is someone coming out thinking there can only be one winner. I'm thinking TJ and I would be happy to own either one, realizing they are both awesome technology battling head to head. But one has to realize the benefits and drawbacks to each one. Neither one will be perfect, so you go for what fits you. The navigation (I travel for work a lot and when we have time my wife and I travel CA) is astounding and almost couldn't be better, the iPhone can't touch that... The integration with Google all around is great for me as my email is gmail, though the iphone integration isn't bad by any means. Flash... that is the tricky part. Is anyone with an iPhone here going to tell me they never got dinged looking at some sites with flash and thought "dang wish I had flash." This nonsense of "well people should develop to html5" because it is a limitation of apple is just ignorant to say the least.

Fact is, both are great phones, the iphone is focused on one user group and the Droid is trying to hit several with different applications of the same thing.

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August 7th, 2011, 10:00 pm
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Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Android Phones
steensn wrote:
To understate the impact of not supporting flash shows a keen bias for sure. You wrote it off because of what? The "success" they've had so far. What I usually see in these convos is someone coming out thinking there can only be one winner. I'm thinking TJ and I would be happy to own either one, realizing they are both awesome technology battling head to head. But one has to realize the benefits and drawbacks to each one. Neither one will be perfect, so you go for what fits you. The navigation (I travel for work a lot and when we have time my wife and I travel CA) is astounding and almost couldn't be better, the iPhone can't touch that... The integration with Google all around is great for me as my email is gmail, though the iphone integration isn't bad by any means. Flash... that is the tricky part. Is anyone with an iPhone here going to tell me they never got dinged looking at some sites with flash and thought "dang wish I had flash." This nonsense of "well people should develop to html5" because it is a limitation of apple is just ignorant to say the least.

Fact is, both are great phones, the iphone is focused on one user group and the Droid is trying to hit several with different applications of the same thing.


No bias or ignorance about flash - most sites do not use flash. I've used an iPad for the last 2 years, had a 3GS and 4 for ~1.5 years (after 6 years of windows mobile - now, I no longer want the constant accessibility of a smartphone), over that time i saw a few "install flash" banners for graphics or navigation, but nothing that hampered browsing whatsoever (ex-power user, heavy web use.) trust me, nothing I have to say about technology is the least bit ignorant.

I know what you mean about the idea that both phones can't coexist, but there will come a point when the superior device emerges, and competitor efforts will be in vain. I don't think we're quite to that point yet, but once apple releases a dual-mode phone I would be very surprised if there isn't a huge shift in the market - the same thing happened with the iPod and we're seeing the same thing happen with the iPad - competitors tried for a while, and they release some good products, some of which had some superior characteristics, but it got to the point that manufacturers realized they were fighting a losing battle and gave up. I don't expect google to give up easily, but I guess we'll see what happens.

Like I said, android has great navigation, which they withhold from apple purposely, to keep that one element superior on android devices, which is why apple is building their own navigation suite.

Google is a search and services company, apple can't touch that.
Facebook is a social media company, apple can't touch that.
Apple is a hardware and os company - google and Facebook can't touch that.

I am curious to see how it all plays out. Apple will need to form some kind of partnership with Facebook, since fb isn't for sale (pity, as apple has a $75B war chest) - google's services are great, but I don't know there's anything in there that apple can't replicate - they'll need to maintain their partnership for search, though, bing uses basically the same algorithm as google, so I wouldn't be that big of a deal to drop google from iOS entirely.

Apple, oracle and ms also just spent 4B on a portfolio of patents which will be leveraged against android - google will end up paying royalties for many of the functionalities in android (per license)..

It's all really interesting, but this is where I stop..

Users don't belong in big-picture discussions about technology, let's just say that android and iOS are both wonderful.


August 7th, 2011, 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Android Phones
aughsum wrote:
No bias or ignorance about flash - most sites do not use flash. I've used an iPad for the last 2 years, had a 3GS and 4 for ~1.5 years (after 6 years of windows mobile - now, I no longer want the constant accessibility of a smartphone), over that time i saw a few "install flash" banners for graphics or navigation, but nothing that hampered browsing whatsoever (ex-power user, heavy web use.) trust me, nothing I have to say about technology is the least bit ignorant.

I know what you mean about the idea that both phones can't coexist, but there will come a point when the superior device emerges, and competitor efforts will be in vain. I don't think we're quite to that point yet, but once apple releases a dual-mode phone I would be very surprised if there isn't a huge shift in the market - the same thing happened with the iPod and we're seeing the same thing happen with the iPad - competitors tried for a while, and they release some good products, some of which had some superior characteristics, but it got to the point that manufacturers realized they were fighting a losing battle and gave up. I don't expect google to give up easily, but I guess we'll see what happens.

Like I said, android has great navigation, which they withhold from apple purposely, to keep that one element superior on android devices, which is why apple is building their own navigation suite.

Google is a search and services company, apple can't touch that.
Facebook is a social media company, apple can't touch that.
Apple is a hardware and os company - google and Facebook can't touch that.

I am curious to see how it all plays out. Apple will need to form some kind of partnership with Facebook, since fb isn't for sale (pity, as apple has a $75B war chest) - google's services are great, but I don't know there's anything in there that apple can't replicate - they'll need to maintain their partnership for search, though, bing uses basically the same algorithm as google, so I wouldn't be that big of a deal to drop google from iOS entirely.

Apple, oracle and ms also just spent 4B on a portfolio of patents which will be leveraged against android - google will end up paying royalties for many of the functionalities in android (per license)..

It's all really interesting, but this is where I stop..

Users don't belong in big-picture discussions about technology, let's just say that android and iOS are both wonderful.

The rest of your post is well thought out in my opinion, but I want to focus on the bolded part. This is simply not true. Well, I suppose technically it is, but not functionally. I've seen varying statistics on it, but most recently I've seen that anywhere from 47% to over 50% of the top websites use flash. Plus, depending on the particular niche of the site, it may be much higher than that. For example, the vast majority of web video sites use flash. Same with web travel sites. Many of them have or are now launching mobile websites, but I know I have personally run into many, many websites that require flash and I can't view them from my phone. It's frustrating, but not a deal breaker by any means.

Anyway, just wanted to point that out.

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August 7th, 2011, 11:21 pm
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Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Android Phones
Economic laws are still weighing against the iPhone. They have the first-mover advantage, as they did with the mp3 player (the MS Zune was a far superior player to the iPod and cheaper, but it was too little too late) and the tablet.

Having multiple hardware manufactures is a long-run advantage for Google. Unless Apple is willing to start making different variations of the iPhone, users must either take it or leave it.

That's fine for now, but as cellphones increase in complexity one-size-fits-all isn't going to work. Some people are going to want tiny phones. Others will want tablet-esque phones. Some will want more dedicated camera capabilities, etc.

That is where the strength of Android's OS licensing will shine.

Me and TDJ discussed this before, and he brought the interesting point that, at the end of the day Apple must compete against Samsung and Motorloa and the other Droid producers and thus keep their hardware solid. But they will never be able to keep it as varied as Google will, and that is why I believe the marketshare will eventually shift to 20/80 or somewhere near there.

Also, MS is looking to push hard into the game with Windows 8 and a possible acquisition of Nokia. It will be interesting to see what they can do, but I suspect that, like the Zune they may be too late to the party.

EDIT: And Apple's stock is tremendously overvalued. We're about to enter depression stage 2 and they make luxury electronics for the everyday consumer. They've been able to get blood from a stone for a while, but they can't keep it going forever.


August 8th, 2011, 12:25 am
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Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Android Phones
Apples stock is undervalued. We aren't entering a depression, we're emerging from a recession.

80/20 is 100/0 arbitrary.

We'll see how it plays out.


August 8th, 2011, 12:38 am
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Post Re: Android Phones
Quote:
Apples stock is undervalued. We aren't entering a depression, we're emerging from a recession.


We've been in a second recession since probably May. The statistics will bear this out soon enough.

Apple makes products which are appealing, but are significantly more expensive than their competitors. (And now, I don't mean how a $1k Macbook is roughly the same as a $1k dell laptop...there are no $300 mac laptops like there are Windows ones...)

If you claim to follow stocks, you should know that Walmart has been continuously guiding down for quarters now, saying that the US consumer is increasingly running out of money.

Apple's plan to expand into China sounds good on paper, but the Chinese economy itself is due for a major recession.

I like Apple in the long-long run, they have the cash flow and brand power no doubt, but Apple bulls' dreams of $1T market caps and such are straight out of the 00' dotcom era.


August 8th, 2011, 1:03 am
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Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Android Phones
Apple is trending towards lower costs. I didn't think I'd live to see a company who produces the best products and undercuts their competitors while maintaining high margins. They have achieved this with the iPod, the iPad, and the ultrabook (MBA) - as product lines converge, costs will drop, and when they finally decide to leverage some of that 75B on manufacturing, then it's over.there are also a few new markets you'll see apple get into over the next couple years.. Things are just getting started at 375.

I guess we'll see about the recession.


August 8th, 2011, 2:32 am
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