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 U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' policy 
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Post U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' policy
A bit surprsed to not see this posted yet...

CNN wrote:
U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' policy

From Adam Levine, CNN
October 20, 2010 12:12 p.m. EDT

Washington (CNN) -- The Obama administration has filed a request with the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to stay a lower court injunction stopping the military policy regarding openly gay troops serving.

Late Tuesday, U.S. District Court Judge Virginia Phillips in California denied the government's request for an emergency stay of her order barring the military from expelling openly gay service members.

That ruling came as the Pentagon has begun advising recruiting commands that they can accept openly gay and lesbian recruit candidates, according to a Pentagon spokeswoman.

The guidance from the Personnel and Readiness office was sent to recruiting commands on Friday, according to spokeswoman Cynthia Smith.

The recruiters were told that if a candidate admits he or she is openly gay, and qualify under normal recruiting guidelines, their application can be processed. Recruiters are not allowed to ask candidates if they are gay as part of the application process.

The notice also reminded recruiters that they have to "manage expectations" of applicants by informing them that a reversal of the court decision might occur, whereby the "don't ask, don't tell" policy could be reinstated, Smith said.

Groups representing gays and lesbians have warned against coming out to the military because the policy is still being appealed in courts.

One group, the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, sent a statement out Tuesday reiterating the concern.

"During this interim period of uncertainty, service members must not come out and recruits should use caution if choosing to sign up," SLDN Executive Director Aubrey Sarvis said in the statement. "The bottom line: if you come out now, it can be used against you in the future by the Pentagon."

Judge Phillips' ruling on "don't ask, don't tell" stemmed from a lawsuit by Log Cabin Republicans, a gay rights group, challenging the policy.

Former Army Lt. Daniel Choi, an Iraq war combat veteran who challenged "don't ask, don't tell" and was discharged, moved to rejoin the military Tuesday afternoon. "I'm here because I want to serve my country," he said.

"In the recruiting station. Apparently I'm too old for the Marines!" he said in a tweet. "Just filled out the Army application."

Choi said he told recruiters he was gay and that there was no reaction or delay in the enlistment process. He indicated he would complete his paperwork Wednesday and that he did not care what rank he would assume.

Will Rodriguez-Kennedy, president of Log Cabin Republicans' San Diego, California, office, tried Tuesday afternoon to be reinstated by the Marines.

"Once a Marine, always a Marine," said Rodriguez-Kennedy, a corporal who was honorably discharged in February 2008.

He served three years of a four-year term. "It's a feeling of not having completed a full tour," he said.

Recruiters told him Tuesday there were no current slots and they would call him in January, Rodriguez-Kennedy said. One option is to join another branch of the service, but Rodriguez-Kennedy said he might speak with Marine officers or get legal help.

Reinstatement would allow him to keep the corporal rank and resume benefits.

Rodriguez-Kennedy, 23, served as a provisional military police officer in Iraq in 2007. He said he was open to new responsibilities. "I love the Marine Corps," he said.

CNN called several recruiting stations in New York and Chicago. They referred inquiries to the Pentagon.

CNN's Larry Shaughnessy, Vivienne Foley and Phil Gast contributed to this report

Thoughts?

IMO its a sticky situation now being as the DADT policy hasn't been 'officially' repealed, but it should be and it's only a matter of time, it just has to be done the proper way. While the judge has ruled DADT unconstitutional, I believe Congress has to officially repeal it or the SCOTUS has to rule on its Constitutionality. Can anyone confirm or correct this?

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October 20th, 2010, 4:13 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
It is an interesting situation... every other employer cannot at all discriminate against sexual orientation... accept the military. It is a very hypocritical situation.

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October 20th, 2010, 4:27 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
In the old days, allowing gays into the military would have led to serious problems. Back then, several soldiers shared a room and had community showers. If you even looked at a guy the wrong way in the shower, you might be subjected to a blanket party.

Now, barracks are more like dorms with 1-2 man rooms and individual showers, so it won't be as much of a problem. There will still be issues, but they won't be as bad as they would have been 20 years ago. But, there are still the cramped quarters and community showers in war zones and out in the field, so it will never be a perfect situation.

In order to make this work, the military must punish unwarranted advances as severely as I'm sure they will homophobia/hate crimes. If they don't, this will be a disaster.

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October 20th, 2010, 11:00 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
Wags,

Right now, this whole issue is a mess. As it stands right now, the 9th Circuit ruling of unconstitutional only affects the military in States that comprise the 9th Circuit. However, the 9th Circuit ruling is not binding on the other circuits. Effectively what this means right now is that the military is barred from enforcing DADT on the West Coast, but can still do so on the East Coast (and the other judicial circuits) where the law has not been ruled unconstitutional.

Now that the U.S. has appealed the ruling, the case will go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. It can rule for or against DADT. But, even if the Appeals court upholds the ruling of the lower court, the ruling is still only binding on the states of the 9th Circuit. If I had to guess, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will likely uphold the lower court ruling that DADT is unconstitutional. The 9th Circuit is usually quite liberal in viewpoint so I can easily foresee them just upholding the ruling.

After the ruling by the Court of Appeals, whichever side loses is likely to apply for a hearing with the Supreme Court. The USSC can decide whether or not it wants to hear the case. If it decides to not hear the case, then the ruling that comes out of the Court of Appeals is binding, but again, it is only binding on the 9th Circuit. Or more likely, the USSC will agree to hear the case and decide the issue. If they rule against DADT, then the law is dead every where. Alternatively they could rule that DADT is okay which then allows the military to reinstate it every where. Reading the tea leaves on which way the USSC would rule on this issue is a crap shoot. The court could very well say the law is unconstitutional. However, there is a general conservative majority on the Court and the court has in the past given the military a little more leeway than they would anybody else because of the nature of what the military is and how it has to operate.

The non-judicial way to resolve this is for Congress to repeal DADT, and that quite frankly is probably the best option for the government. If Congress were to repeal the law, then it would obviously end DADT but it would also effectively bar any further lawsuits from discharged soldiers. Whereas, if the challenge to the law is played out through the courts and comes to a resolution that way, depending on how the rulings end up could open a big can of worms of lawsuits from all the discharged soldiers if the law were held to be unconstitutional. Those soldiers could all sue for being discharged illegally. Thus, repeal of the law by Congress is the better option. It is also possible that Congress and the Military bet the farm on the USSC ultimately ruling in their favor which would allow them to keep DADT alive and in force. But in my opinion that is a very risky gamble because if the USSC does not rule in their favor, it opens up that can of lawsuits.

Hope that helps to clear up some confusion about the pathways of this issue.

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October 21st, 2010, 8:57 am
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
CNN wrote:
Official: Pentagon set to certify repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'
From Chris Lawrence, CNN Pentagon Correspondent
July 22, 2011 -- Updated 0234 GMT (1034 HKT)

(CNN) -- The Pentagon is set to certify that the U.S. military is prepared to accept openly gay and lesbian service members, and doing so will not harm military readiness, a U.S. official told CNN on Thursday.

According to the official, who spoke on condition of not being identified, an announcement of that certification -- which is required to repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy -- is likely to come Friday.

Under a bill passed last year that set up a process for repealing the controversial policy, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen, along with President Barack Obama, have to sign a certification that confirms the military's ability to accept the integration of openly gay and lesbian troops.

Even after certification, there will be a 60-day waiting period before the repeal is fully implemented.

In a statement Thursday, one of the leading groups advocating for repeal, Servicemembers United, said it had expected Panetta to act on certification after assessing the situation since he succeeded Robert Gates as defense secretary on July 1.

"We are glad to see that just three weeks into his tenure as secretary of defense, he (Panetta) is already confident that this policy change can take place with little or no disruption to military readiness," said the Servicemembers United statement.

Repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy would end a convoluted legal battle led by human rights and gay rights groups.

A gay rights group -- the Log Cabin Republicans -- had sued over the 18-year-old ban on openly gay and lesbian members serving in the U.S. armed forces.

In September U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips declared the military's ban to be unconstitutional and demanded the government immediately stop enforcing it.

U.S. officials have been moving ahead with dismantling "don't' ask, don't tell" but had objected to having the courts force the government to officially repeal it.

The case put the Obama administration in an unusual position of supporting a repeal but at the same time filing court motions to prevent it from happening faster than planned.

Last week, a federal appeals court temporarily reinstated the policy, but banned the military services from investigating or discharging anyone under the rule.

The 9th U.S. Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in California issued the order late Friday after the Obama administration asked it to reconsider its recent order temporarily blocking the policy.

On Thursday, the Log Cabin Republicans filed a legal challenge to the appellate court's temporary reinstatement of the policy, arguing that the unconstitutional statute would continue to harm the rights of gay and lesbian service members until it was fully repealed.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/07/21/mi ... dt/?hpt=T2

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July 22nd, 2011, 3:08 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
Can't say it doesn't make make sense... what does being gay have to do with being in the military? My only concern is the shower situation...

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July 22nd, 2011, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
Being gay doesn't mean anything, it will just take time for those serving to adapt to the mentality of it. And if there's any gay couples serving together, there could be issues similar to the same issues why females aren't allowed in combat. The potential risk of compassion that makes people act against protocol, potentially putting more people at risk.


July 22nd, 2011, 3:56 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
The real problem with this is that the vast majority of guys who join the military consider themselves to be "real" men. From my experience in the Army, we looked down upon sissies, wimps, or anybody that even remotely "seemed" gay. If you didn't act like a man, you weren't respected and could be subjected to ridicule. That's just the way it is and probably should be if you want the finest fighting force in the world.

With that said, if a gay soldier acted like a man and carried his weight, there shouldn't be a problem. But, if one of them wants to add sparkles to his helmet or prance about like a fairy, it isn't going to go over very well. That's just the plain and simple truth.

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July 23rd, 2011, 10:09 pm
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Post Re: U.S. appeals order lifting 'don't ask, don't tell' polic
slybri19 wrote:
The real problem with this is that the vast majority of guys who join the military consider themselves to be "real" men. From my experience in the Army, we looked down upon sissies, wimps, or anybody that even remotely "seemed" gay. If you didn't act like a man, you weren't respected and could be subjected to ridicule. That's just the way it is and probably should be if you want the finest fighting force in the world.

With that said, if a gay soldier acted like a man and carried his weight, there shouldn't be a problem. But, if one of them wants to add sparkles to his helmet or prance about like a fairy, it isn't going to go over very well. That's just the plain and simple truth.


This sounds about right, I've never been in but imagine an army where everyone is giggling and tickling each other.

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July 24th, 2011, 10:11 am
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