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 Astronomy/Scientific Question 
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Pablo wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
Pablo wrote:
wow Pablo Im kinda suprised at how closed minded you are about religion...you seem fairly open to everything else.

I guess I dont understand why aliens would be a conflict of faith. I never read the part of the bible that said we were the only intelligent life god created...we're just the favorites....so.....why would ET commin over for dinner cause a crysis? and why would he laugh? Do you really think other life forms wouldn't create their own faith based beilefs? Even if you were correct and it's all pretend, it's been there since th dawn of reason. Why would an alien race be any different..if they made it here, they'd have to have reason so.....

Aliens comming to Earth, and actually communicating with us, would be a game changer. Why would they laugh, how bout your comment "we're just the favorites" - really? How egotistical would that sound to a much superior race? That would be like Parrots who could talk telling us the same thing.

I think other life forms could well create their own faith based beliefs, but eventually as their intelligence and knowledge base grows they outgrow those beliefs as well (as I believe most humans will eventually do).

I don't think I'm closed minded about religion at all. I've taken pieces of many different religions and incorporated them into my daily life despite my lack of belief. There are many wonderful qualities and learnings in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and even the more ancient ones like Shamanism and more recent ones like Scientology. I both pray (in a little different sense) and meditate daily. Both of my boys have been baptised in a Catholic Church and currently attend a Methodist school (and are in Bible camp this week as a matter of fact). Within the last year I've attended masses at a Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, and non-denominational Church. Does that sound closed minded to you? Or is that more open minded than folks who only pursue one faith?

I see most current belief systems in the historical context of religion. I see the evolution of modern day belief to where we are today instead of the isolationism approach almost all believers fall prey to.

Again, I started out as a believer, because I'm open minded I followed the proof (or overwhelming lack of it along with lack of logic) to the path of a non-believer. From your perspective, God gave me free will. He also then lead me down this path. It isn't I don't want to believe, but rather that I see zero reason to. I'm sorry you see that as being closed minded, perhaps you are right, but we approach the subject from opposite ends of the spectrum. I can, however, see it from your side having once believed - can you see it from my side at all or have you always believed?


Oh I absolutly get where yer comming from, thats why I generally dont have any arguments for ya, save this one that confused me. I guess Im getting the "close minded" part of it form some of your responses. Probably due more to my own imaginations. SOmetimes Your responses sound simlar to.....good lord whats his name, theguy from Politically Incorrect...Bill MAhr I think? ill pay a bit more attention in the fiture and try and get that comparison out of my head.

As for the favorites part though...if god does exist as I believe..someone HAS to be favorites..why not us...and here's another though that alien watchers HATE.
SO with all the planets out there it is safe to say there HAS to be life out there SOMEWHERE....odds are just too good right? Why does everyone assume that someone else will be the first to space travel though? someone has to be first, thats a fact, but why is it so rediculous for us to be the first ones? If we were (and I know thats kinda a big if, but no less theoretical than aliens comming HERE)it COULD suppport the "favorite" concept, no?


I'm sure I go a little overboard to make my points as well. I coach both my son's soccer team, to demonstrate a point I have to exaggerate the movement - I'm kind of doing the same thing here.

We assume that someone else would travel first because we are so far off from a technical standpoint that if it is going to happen at any point in the near future it isn't going to be us. Look, our space shuttle program is no longer going to be getting off the ground. Humans haven't even visited the nearest planet, getting beyond our solar system isn't a remote possibility.


Until we create some kind of warp drive, anything beyond our solar system would be a one-way trip - I read that the lhc created/contained antimatter for 17minutes.. It's a start.


June 16th, 2011, 12:13 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Derailment to point out a sad fact / NASA at this point in time does not have a craft capable of space travel.....BOOOOOOOO


/Derailment

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June 16th, 2011, 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
That's because we're waiting for all of those "wonderful" additions to the sciences that Muslims have made, according to Maobama.

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June 16th, 2011, 12:40 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
regularjoe12 wrote:
Derailment to point out a sad fact / NASA at this point in time does not have a craft capable of space travel.....BOOOOOOOO


/Derailment


I wouldn't consider that a bad thing, the space shuttle in it's current form couldn't do much more for us.. Would rather have a modernized shuttle in 2014 than the same one they've been using since the 80s.


June 16th, 2011, 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
aughsum wrote:
steensn wrote:
You are now taking imaginary beings and assuming they don't have similar beliefs? bduh.gif


I'm not assuming anything about their beliefs - you think alien life is imaginary? At this point it is but you don't think anything is out there? That's what I was getting at with the question - a lot of Christians I've met are completely against the possibility of alien life, despite the fact it defies logic. I've even met some who don't believe dinosaurs existed and think earth is 5000 years old.

That is the first time I've heard angels referred to as aliens, but I guess that would be accurate, if they existed.


That was directed at Pablo. The fact is Alien life is no more proven or plausible than God, yet Pablo was using his belief on what they would say to make another link to why religion is false... it's hypocritical nonsense.

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June 16th, 2011, 1:52 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
steensn wrote:
aughsum wrote:
steensn wrote:
You are now taking imaginary beings and assuming they don't have similar beliefs? bduh.gif


I'm not assuming anything about their beliefs - you think alien life is imaginary? At this point it is but you don't think anything is out there? That's what I was getting at with the question - a lot of Christians I've met are completely against the possibility of alien life, despite the fact it defies logic. I've even met some who don't believe dinosaurs existed and think earth is 5000 years old.

That is the first time I've heard angels referred to as aliens, but I guess that would be accurate, if they existed.


That was directed at Pablo. The fact is Alien life is no more proven or plausible than God, yet Pablo was using his belief on what they would say to make another link to why religion is false... it's hypocritical nonsense.


Its a logical conclusion, just ask Spock. :alien2:

Or a Scientologiest... :mrgreen:

Secondly, Alien life is much more plausible than God in my opinion (feel free to disagree) and has a much better chance of someday being proven.

And yes, it was my belief that communication with Aliens would help dispell the religious myths we still cling to here on the 3rd rock. If you want to call my beliefs hypocritical nonsense feel free, but please the examine your own beliefs from the same vantage point.

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June 16th, 2011, 2:04 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
WarEr4Christ wrote:
So has anyone bothered to check it out? Blueskies, Slybry, Pablo? Wags, Steensn, RG12?

It's really quite interesting!

I'm still waiting for your "proof"

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June 16th, 2011, 2:06 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Pablo wrote:
Secondly, Alien life is much more plausible than God in my opinion (feel free to disagree) and has a much better chance of someday being proven.


There is nothing that shows alien life is more plausible. In fact, our mere existence is very unplausible actually based on statistics. I will conced that is both exist, alien life would be easier to prove though because it is seemingly in the means our our technology today to do so.


Pablo wrote:
And yes, it was my belief that communication with Aliens would help dispell the religious myths we still cling to here on the 3rd rock. If you want to call my beliefs hypocritical nonsense feel free, but please the examine your own beliefs from the same vantage point.


I think many religions would suffer, but I see no conflicts with other creation other than us and this Earth. I call them hypocritical because you are willing to act like you came to logical and fact filled conclusions to your beliefs yet consistently show when faced with equal or even less convinsing possibilities you'll shrug away religion imediately. That is the hypocitial part. I will 100% I shrug off other possibilities as options based on my beliefs.

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June 16th, 2011, 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Pablo wrote:
Secondly, Alien life is much more plausible than God in my opinion (feel free to disagree) and has a much better chance of someday being proven.


It has a better chance of being proven because it is assumed they exist within our current dimension of reality. And I would imagine it would be THEIR technology that brings them to us, not the other way around.

Pablo wrote:
And yes, it was my belief that communication with Aliens would help dispell the religious myths we still cling to here on the 3rd rock. If you want to call my beliefs hypocritical nonsense feel free, but please the examine your own beliefs from the same vantage point.


Another assumption Pablo. You are assuming the aliens would not believe in a Supreme Being. Why?

Look at human history. Various cultures, completely shut out from each other, had belief in a Supreme Being or Beings. Explain how this can be? Explain how or why different pockets of humans, never having interacted with each other, would have such similar beliefs? Could that not extend beyond our planet? Whether He truly exists or not is not at the heart of this matter. It would be why is there a belief in such a being or beings?

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June 16th, 2011, 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Just asking a question or two, from anyone who desires to answer:

Assuming: There is at least ONE other planet out there with intelligent life forms, and it is believed they would have been created by the one God of the Universe (the God of Abraham?) ...

... did an alien Eve eat a forbidden alien fruit in parallel to ours, or did they not fall from grace (or however is the appropriate way to say that)? And if they didn't ... would they not be "superior" to us, by definition? And if they did ... did/do they have their own alien version of Jesus to save them?

Discuss.


June 16th, 2011, 3:21 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
aughsum wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
Derailment to point out a sad fact / NASA at this point in time does not have a craft capable of space travel.....BOOOOOOOO


/Derailment


I wouldn't consider that a bad thing, the space shuttle in it's current form couldn't do much more for us.. Would rather have a modernized shuttle in 2014 than the same one they've been using since the 80s.


Yeah but no one is building one. so far tha plan as i understand it is, to help the guy who owns Virgin build his then "rent space" on it and basically hitch hike to space. I REALLY hope they updated the plan since last I heard (about a year ago) cuz if not, America's ONLY space program NOT having access to space is a waste of a crapload of cash!

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June 16th, 2011, 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
and steens Just for the record, we're (well smart scientist types) are pretty darn sure that they have discovered mold and other such primative lifeforms on other planets....so we KNOW alien life exists. you want to change your wording to "Sentient Life" cuz we're beyond just guessing at just "life" itself.

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June 16th, 2011, 3:28 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
I.E. wrote:
Just asking a question or two, from anyone who desires to answer:

Assuming: There is at least ONE other planet out there with intelligent life forms, and it is believed they would have been created by the one God of the Universe (the God of Abraham?) ...

... did an alien Eve eat a forbidden alien fruit in parallel to ours, or did they not fall from grace (or however is the appropriate way to say that)? And if they didn't ... would they not be "superior" to us, by definition? And if they did ... did/do they have their own alien version of Jesus to save them?

Discuss.


why asume that they are parallel? seems to me that earth is basically a test/ proving grounds for people to god. why do the same test elswhere...seems JUST as likley that they would have a whole walk/path/test than we would here. It COULD be the same as ours but that seems redundant.
with all the variety on this planet, why just cut and paste to another planet?

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June 16th, 2011, 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
m2karateman wrote:
Look at human history. Various cultures, completely shut out from each other, had belief in a Supreme Being or Beings. Explain how this can be? Explain how or why different pockets of humans, never having interacted with each other, would have such similar beliefs? Could that not extend beyond our planet? Whether He truly exists or not is not at the heart of this matter. It would be why is there a belief in such a being or beings?

I would guess lack of knowledge. They needed something/some way to explain what was happening so they invented (a) "Supreme Being(s)" After they obtained said knowledge to answer the questions of the day, they still had to invent other "SBs" for things they couldn't explain.

Example:
Early human trying to figure out what the wet stuff falling from the sky is....(insert deity here) is mad/sad/etc must do something to make it all better. They then learn what "rain" is and eliminate the "Rain deity"

Seems rather logical and 'human'. In due time, once we as the human race have gained enough knowledge, we will have no use for deities or will create new ones.
JMHO

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June 16th, 2011, 4:05 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
regularjoe12 wrote:
I.E. wrote:
Just asking a question or two, from anyone who desires to answer:

Assuming: There is at least ONE other planet out there with intelligent life forms, and it is believed they would have been created by the one God of the Universe (the God of Abraham?) ...

... did an alien Eve eat a forbidden alien fruit in parallel to ours, or did they not fall from grace (or however is the appropriate way to say that)? And if they didn't ... would they not be "superior" to us, by definition? And if they did ... did/do they have their own alien version of Jesus to save them?

Discuss.


why asume that they are parallel? seems to me that earth is basically a test/ proving grounds for people to god. why do the same test elswhere...seems JUST as likley that they would have a whole walk/path/test than we would here. It COULD be the same as ours but that seems redundant.
with all the variety on this planet, why just cut and paste to another planet?


"Truth" be told, we're the real experiment as we were 'planted' here by other beings (Martians :wink:)

Come to think of it, maybe that's it!?! The Martians are actually GOD! It's all coming together now!

/threadjack

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June 16th, 2011, 4:07 pm
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