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 Astronomy/Scientific Question 
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
WarEr4Christ wrote:
But I believe that no one wants to do that, because the risk of proving the story from the Bible true, would totally upset the present belief system about fossils, and extinction. Turkey doesn't want it to happen either because of the same reasoning, because that would authenticate the Bible, and then that goes back to Isaac and Ishmael. I know this is a stretch, and or a spin of perspective, but can you see how it would be easier to dismiss it as a hoax, instead of truly finding out, because we don't want to run the risk of authenticating it.

Maybe it's a Biblical Conspiracy Theory eh?

Or it could prove the Bible false, eh? Just imagine the consequences of that! :shock:

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June 10th, 2011, 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
TheRealWags wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Wags: What would you like proven? King David? Paul? Jesus? How about Noah's Ark? All of these stories have been proven in one way or another, so yes I would say the Bible is factually correct. Another reason why I would stand by that statement is actually two part.

1. The things of God can not be readily understood by the "unbeliever" because they are of the Spirit. So things that require faith in order to believe, would be seen as nonsense, crazy, a lie and so on by the unbeliever. Just because they choose not to believe does not change the truth in anyway.

2. The last book Revelations goes on to say that anyone who adds or takes away from anything recorded will be subject to the plagues recorded or his/her life will be taken away from the tree of life. So anything that has been "added" as an arguement to those who would say it was man's word and not God's, will pay the punishment if needed. As for me, I seek a greater degree of the master instead of a masters degree.

I may be foolish, and any number of labels that anyone wishes to throw out, but of one thing you can be sure, I'm trying my best to be real, and transparent. So if I have missed answers to questions, my mistake, and point me in the right direction agains so I could see it.


Care to provide said "proof"?


Umm, Wags - did you not watch the referenced YouTube video? Gotta admit after that remarkable PROOF I'm a convert. Me, Steensn and WarEr4Christ going to convert all you Spagetti Monster loving, Jesus hating, destined for hell non-believers.

Let's pray for their souls fellow believers!

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June 10th, 2011, 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Please don't mistake my reference to the Utube Ark video as proof, that's not what I was saying. What I was trying to say is that the Chino/Turk team supposedly went and "discovered" Noah's ark, and that I was curious as to why a research team appropriately manned from both sides of the argument could follow the route of that team. Then if they discovered something, tell the world.

Yes it could go both ways, but I'm really confident through personal experience with God, that it would not. Again, I'm starting to sound like a nut, or maybe starting isn't the appropriate word, because I'm sure I've been accused of this long before now.

But this is the tangible type of stuff that could be researched and brought before the world, letting the chips fall where they may.

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June 10th, 2011, 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Please don't mistake my reference to the Utube Ark video as proof, that's not what I was saying. What I was trying to say is that the Chino/Turk team supposedly went and "discovered" Noah's ark, and that I was curious as to why a research team appropriately manned from both sides of the argument could follow the route of that team. Then if they discovered something, tell the world.

Yes it could go both ways, but I'm really confident through personal experience with God, that it would not. Again, I'm starting to sound like a nut, or maybe starting isn't the appropriate word, because I'm sure I've been accused of this long before now.

But this is the tangible type of stuff that could be researched and brought before the world, letting the chips fall where they may.


OK, well the YouTube already swayed me but Wags is looking for the real PROOF you claim then. Please enlighten this fine young man so he can join us on this quest.

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June 10th, 2011, 5:45 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
steensn wrote:
I.E. wrote:
One more thing... people often ask, "what existed before the big bang" ... and what that question demonstrates is a lack of understanding of the nature of time. Time is just another dimension, and is relative - not a constant. The concept of spacetime is hard to wrap your mind around - even if you're highly educated in science & math.


This as well is the same idea that Pablo is critisizing religion for below. People are ok with not answering the questions if they are science based (too hard to understand) but not an idea of a creator that operates beyond our understanding or comprehension. Someone something so completely the same is not treated as such.


I get what you're saying... the difference is that many people can understand & explain spacetime perfectly. I just don't claim to be that smart! #-o


June 10th, 2011, 7:15 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
I.E. wrote:
steensn wrote:
I.E. wrote:
One more thing... people often ask, "what existed before the big bang" ... and what that question demonstrates is a lack of understanding of the nature of time. Time is just another dimension, and is relative - not a constant. The concept of spacetime is hard to wrap your mind around - even if you're highly educated in science & math.


This as well is the same idea that Pablo is critisizing religion for below. People are ok with not answering the questions if they are science based (too hard to understand) but not an idea of a creator that operates beyond our understanding or comprehension. Someone something so completely the same is not treated as such.


I get what you're saying... the difference is that many people can understand & explain spacetime perfectly. I just don't claim to be that smart! #-o


Just to be clear, they can explain their postulation of space/time that has less circumstantial evidence than the Bible. The fact that it doesn't talk about religion suddenly makes it acceptable and smart though.

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June 10th, 2011, 7:16 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
steensn wrote:
I.E. wrote:
steensn wrote:
I get what you're saying... the difference is that many people can understand & explain spacetime perfectly. I just don't claim to be that smart! #-o


Just to be clear, they can explain their postulation of space/time that has less circumstantial evidence than the Bible. The fact that it doesn't talk about religion suddenly makes it acceptable and smart though.


I believe many quantum principles have actually been observed in partical accelerators, but also obviously recognize we've only scratched the surface of all there is to learn... so sorry about the use of the word perfectly ... meant it in the "perfectly well" sense (meaning fairly thoroughly), vs meaning "flawless".

I don't think the measure of the proof of the Bible is its saturation level with circumstantial or historical evidence. If it was 95% historically accurate, that still wouldn't suggest the other 5% then automatically is. And I don't think comparing the Bible's "evidence saturation level" with the current status of proof of quantum theories tells us much, really. What I mean is, if someone has faith in the former the latter shouldn't matter at all - it will either fit into an overall framwork at some point, or be shelved when a better model comes along.


June 11th, 2011, 11:26 am
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
I don't think we differ on what level of proof there is for this stuff, I just wanted to point that out for those who read Steve Hawkings and believe it is proven science.

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June 11th, 2011, 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
I have tried to read 2 different steven hawkings books..I wish I was smart enough to truely comprehend what that dude is talking about....I get the jist, but the details BLOW MY MIND!

The thing that I do know though, is that much of what he talks about is theory, not law. That much I do know.

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June 11th, 2011, 1:01 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Even less than a theory they are hypothesis.

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June 11th, 2011, 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
depends on what you are talking about. I was refering to his most popular Idea. String Theory.

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June 11th, 2011, 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
Theory is unfortunately too broad of a term... the string theory is in no way in the same category as the theory of gravity for example. Gravity is ALMOST a law, while the string theory is an attempt to explain in the simplest terms possible observed events.

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June 11th, 2011, 2:28 pm
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
regularjoe12 wrote:
warrior while you may be right about some of the things you posted...I believe Blue was correct in his post as it really does appear that you asked a question, but dont pay attention to any answers , you just spin it with your christian agenda...Im a christian myself and Even I have to admit that it looks more like your question was a ploy to attempt conversion more than it was a search for actual answers. Sorry man but thats exactly how it looks....

But he always does that. Ya just gotta learn to laugh at it and move on. If his french fry from McDonalds was twisted into a particular shape, he would claim it was a sign from God. That's just how he rolls. Not saying there's anything wrong with that..... :lol:

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June 12th, 2011, 3:18 am
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
The truth of the matter is that nobody knows. The Big Bang is a theory, just as Creationism is a theory as well. Neither can be proven. However, from my perspective, more evidence lies with the Big Bang theory. I know Christians will disagree, but that's based upon their faith more than anything else.

For those that doubt the existence of singularities and fitting everything into the size of a pin head, I'll use placing steensn in a trash compactor as an example. :D I'm just kidding here, but bear with me on this. Once the compactor has squished him into the size of a piece of paper, he would still have the same mass. Volume (or size) has absolutely nothing to do with it. Now, increase the power of that trash compactor to infinity. What couldn't it crush down to that size?

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June 12th, 2011, 3:48 am
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Post Re: Astronomy/Scientific Question
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Blue: I definitely was trying to ask legitimate questions and not set you up as it's been stated. And I was waiting for Sly's answer, as he has stated that Astronomy was one of his passions, and I thought it would be an interesting topic and maybe debate. But it wasn't supposed to be an argument.


You've thrown the "well a grenade explodes outwards" into like three topics in the past year or so that I personally remember.

I'm pretty sure that each time, someone explained to you why that thinking is wrong, but you just keep using it.

That's part of the reason how I know you are not really looking for answers here.

The other part of the reason is that you are inclined to believe kooks who claim to have proven parts of the bible, but doubt society's greatest scientists.

You don't want your ideas challenged, you just want them reinforced. I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem with pretending otherwise.

Why don't you go to a library and get a copy of A Brief History of Time and The Blind Watchmaker, read them, and then post your thoughts?


June 12th, 2011, 12:02 pm
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