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 South Park coming to an end. 
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
I'm not arguing that the discussion of free speeech shouldn't be had and people can't tune out. I'm not against South Park being on TV or any of the other shows I don't watch for my own personal reasons.

What I am saying is that the constitution was never as black and white as you guys fake it to be. We amended the constitution to make women and black people equal with white men. How crystal clear is "all men are created equal?" Seems pretty crystal clear to me. The point is when they made those changes they clearly understood the context of those words and what they meant. "Freedom of speech" is NOT as crystal clear as you want to fake it being because those words were penned to mean something different than what you guys are stating. Just as "all men" didn't actually literally mean every man, women, and child, "freedom of speech" doesn't mean anything and everything you want to say written or verbal.

The immediate penners of the First Amendment didn't see a problem with states and municipalities making illegal profanity and other lude acts in public. We don't allow someone to yell fire or rape causing a riot when there isn't any because of the implications. Freedom of speech had ONE meaning when it was penned and that is the only meaning it can be held to. If we choose to make it more broad, then we are required to amend the constitution to address this.

If the society deems an act to have an overlying negative impact to society, the first amendment has no protection for it. Parents should be able to to control what their kids see. Having more lude shows past 10 PM, a power button on the radio, and protection for clearly sociatal defied lude acts not allowed in public places (where there is no knob) does not go against the intent of the First Amendment at all.

To blanket apply "Freedom of Speech" shows a clear lack for historical context, intent, precedent, and logic.

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regularjoe12 - "You are crackin me up! really! HILARIOUS um let me quote some intellgent people in this coneversation: Steensn:"


June 15th, 2011, 2:13 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
aughsum wrote:
it's what happens when parents don't force-feed religion to their kids.


False premise, your conclusion based on your attempt to understand it in no means tells us anyhting about what you posted above. I can name someone that had different conclusions for every person you find that concluded the same as you. You may very well have concluded that, but your conclusion doesn't tell us what happens when people are left to their own to develope their beliefs.

Example:

If the streets are wet, it has rained recently. (premise)
The streets are wet. (premise)
Therefore it has rained recently. (conclusion)

There are other explinations to why the streets are wet just like there are other explinations as to why you came to the conclusion you did. You are artificially limiting the discussion by being intellectually dishonest.

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regularjoe12 - "You are crackin me up! really! HILARIOUS um let me quote some intellgent people in this coneversation: Steensn:"


June 15th, 2011, 2:18 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
steensn wrote:
aughsum wrote:
it's what happens when parents don't force-feed religion to their kids.


False premise, your conclusion based on your attempt to understand it in no means tells us anyhting about what you posted above. I can name someone that had different conclusions for every person you find that concluded the same as you. You may very well have concluded that, but your conclusion doesn't tell us what happens when people are left to their own to develope their beliefs.

Example:

If the streets are wet, it has rained recently. (premise)
The streets are wet. (premise)
Therefore it has rained recently. (conclusion)

There are other explinations to why the streets are wet just like there are other explinations as to why you came to the conclusion you did. You are artificially limiting the discussion by being intellectually dishonest.


My above post is just one example of free-thinking at work - ask Richard Dawkins what he thinks about children and religion, he's more opinionative than I.


June 15th, 2011, 2:21 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
steensn wrote:
I'm not arguing that the discussion of free speeech shouldn't be had and people can't tune out. I'm not against South Park being on TV or any of the other shows I don't watch for my own personal reasons.

What I am saying is that the constitution was never as black and white as you guys fake it to be. We amended the constitution to make women and black people equal with white men. How crystal clear is "all men are created equal?" Seems pretty crystal clear to me. The point is when they made those changes they clearly understood the context of those words and what they meant. "Freedom of speech" is NOT as crystal clear as you want to fake it being because those words were penned to mean something different than what you guys are stating. Just as "all men" didn't actually literally mean every man, women, and child, "freedom of speech" doesn't mean anything and everything you want to say written or verbal.

The immediate penners of the First Amendment didn't see a problem with states and municipalities making illegal profanity and other lude acts in public. We don't allow someone to yell fire or rape causing a riot when there isn't any because of the implications. Freedom of speech had ONE meaning when it was penned and that is the only meaning it can be held to. If we choose to make it more broad, then we are required to amend the constitution to address this.

If the society deems an act to have an overlying negative impact to society, the first amendment has no protection for it. Parents should be able to to control what their kids see. Having more lude shows past 10 PM, a power button on the radio, and protection for clearly sociatal defied lude acts not allowed in public places (where there is no knob) does not go against the intent of the First Amendment at all.

To blanket apply "Freedom of Speech" shows a clear lack for historical context, intent, precedent, and logic.


The constitution is black and white. No where does the constitution state that all men are created equal. That's the Declaration of Independence. Its not a law. The constitution was amended to give women and blacks the vote because previously they weren't nationally. There were states that allowed women to vote, NJ being one of them, but a constitutional amendment was necessary for it to be nationwide and universal for all.

And just as a side, yelling fire in a crowded theater isn't illegal. Its a notion that everyone uses to try to deem common sense, but there has not once ever been a conviction for.

As to Lude T-shirts in public, indecent exposure covers that. I've seen plenty of t-shirts be made to be turned inside out, or removed due to the message, even though they were sold right there. Wearing something isn't speech. The creators of said t-shirts are protected by free speech, not the wearer.

Society can change things, with decency laws, tolerance laws, etc.. but thats not changing the constitution. Its intent today is the same as it was then. If you feel you've been offended or a state law is overreaching, it goes through the courts and to the Supreme court. You don't change the base.


June 15th, 2011, 2:28 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
aughsum wrote:
My above post is just one example of free-thinking at work - ask Richard Dawkins what he thinks about children and religion, he's more opinionative than I.


Yes, one example, and there are many more like you and many more that came to completely opposite conclusions. You going to throw them out because you disagree with their conclusions? You are being intellectually dishonest.

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June 15th, 2011, 2:46 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
njroar wrote:
Society can change things, with decency laws, tolerance laws, etc.. but thats not changing the constitution. Its intent today is the same as it was then. If you feel you've been offended or a state law is overreaching, it goes through the courts and to the Supreme court. You don't change the base.


I agree! That is how it works now and I am not asking to change it. Those advocating they have a right to do whatever because of the 1st amendement are, that is my point.

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June 15th, 2011, 2:49 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
njroar wrote:
The constitution is black and white. No where does the constitution state that all men are created equal. That's the Declaration of Independence. Its not a law. The constitution was amended to give women and blacks the vote because previously they weren't nationally. There were states that allowed women to vote, NJ being one of them, but a constitutional amendment was necessary for it to be nationwide and universal for all.


My mistake, you are right, it isn't. But it still holds up my example that it is abou context and it isn't black and white.

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June 15th, 2011, 2:52 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
But its not about context. The constitution lays out the guidelines. Ever notice that prohibition is still in the constitution and the repeal is listed right after? Its so we don't forget the mistakes we've made. Its the taking it in context that has made the second amendment such a debated topic. Many have said that the militia was the national guard even though it was created much much later. Madison even said that the militia was every man, women and child, minus a few congressman. The constitution is simple and to the point. The government doesn't have a right to change any of it, no matter how they try to go around it.

Every man has the freedom to do as he chooses. Someone has to right to be crude as much as you have the right to voice your opposition to it. He'll succumb to pressure long before you need to take the first amendment into context. Saying it depends on context invalidates its authority. No one has a right to say it works here, but doesn't work here. That invalidates everything it stands for. And giving just an inch, will ruin it completely.

The more I hate something someone says, the more i'm reminded of exactly why I served to protect his very right to say it.


June 15th, 2011, 4:52 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
steensn wrote:
aughsum wrote:
My above post is just one example of free-thinking at work - ask Richard Dawkins what he thinks about children and religion, he's more opinionative than I.


Yes, one example, and there are many more like you and many more that came to completely opposite conclusions. You going to throw them out because you disagree with their conclusions? You are being intellectually dishonest.


No, you're welcome to believe whatever the fk you believe. Just saying, at least the people who came to their own conclusions were given that chance to make up their own minds.


June 15th, 2011, 5:31 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
The only thing that matters is the truth, now how one got to it. If you came to the wrong conclusion than the only thing that matters is you beleive the wrong thing in the end. If someone was born into a family that taught him/her the truth it has no bearing on how he/she came to the truth. The fact is that only the truth matters. This BS of "I came to my own truth on my own so that is respectable" is complete hogwash. If somenoe came to the conclusion that little pigs were chasing them, but were invisible and they ran around scream and shooting a gun wildly into the air killing people in the process... you yourself could care less that you came to this conclusion on your own. It is clear that you don't believe the process to a belief is what matters but rather the belief is what matters. If it didn't then you would be ok with what anyone comes up with on your own.

What you really mean is hat as long as it doesn't effect you or other people you really don't care what someone beleives or how they came to it. You want to make the process important because you don't believe in anything therefore you must find comfort in something and all you are left with is a process.

You don't even buy your own crap, so why should I?

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June 15th, 2011, 8:01 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
steensn wrote:
The only thing that matters is the truth, now how one got to it. If you came to the wrong conclusion than the only thing that matters is you beleive the wrong thing in the end. If someone was born into a family that taught him/her the truth it has no bearing on how he/she came to the truth. The fact is that only the truth matters. This BS of "I came to my own truth on my own so that is respectable" is complete hogwash. If somenoe came to the conclusion that little pigs were chasing them, but were invisible and they ran around scream and shooting a gun wildly into the air killing people in the process... you yourself could care less that you came to this conclusion on your own. It is clear that you don't believe the process to a belief is what matters but rather the belief is what matters. If it didn't then you would be ok with what anyone comes up with on your own.

What you really mean is hat as long as it doesn't effect you or other people you really don't care what someone beleives or how they came to it. You want to make the process important because you don't believe in anything therefore you must find comfort in something and all you are left with is a process.

You don't even buy your own crap, so why should I?


No reply needed. Just read this. Religious people are all the same - this "truth" that you speak of is one that you can't possibly know - science can't proove or disproove it, and the beliefs of science carry more weight with me than the beliefs of steensn.

It's not about just making your own mind about your own beliefs, rather than have those beliefs programmed into you by authority figures, it's about researching the topic and using facts as a basis for your own beliefs. So many "religious" people don't know a thing about their religion, yet they still spew all of this ignorance about it.. Like they get extra credit points in heaven for converting the heathens,

We're getting off topic.. We were talking about how your spiritual leaders rape kids, not about individual religious beliefs.


June 15th, 2011, 8:10 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
Ok here's the rub: Augshum you are trying to reason something with your mind that can only be understood, through faith and relationship.

If you are married: Does anyone know your wife like you do? You know here intimately, through relationship, through spending time with her, chasing after her, loving her, needing her. You are able to be completely honest about who you are and what makes you tick because she loves you in return. So in that context you are free, to know and love her like NO ONE ELSE ON EARTH. Children, and parents can not know her to the level you do.

Now, do you want to know God, do you want to know if He exists? It takes one very small step, one choice to reach out in faith and say, "I don't know where my foots, going to land, but I'm going to trust that you will move Heaven and Earth, to make sure that my foot lands on solid ground." I can not explain to you, or prove to you that which you can not see. It's all about the relationship with Him, He has so much in store for mankind, so much to give and offer us, that would blow our minds, but on the flip side we have a very much alive enemy who is doing all he can to keep us in the dark. Fear, anger, unbelief, pain, shame, guilt, you name it, these are the weapons that rage against our hearts, so that we hurt too much to even dare to attempt to believe anything else.

Buddha promise enlightenment
Mohammed promised virgins
and so on....

Jesus, He promises eternal life, and eternal relationship with a Heavenly Father, who saw that man was wicked beyond repair, that is until He made a way! For all of the reading that you've done, and I'm impressed if it's true, and I have no reason to doubt, did anything there help you get to know Him? I can read any manual you set before me, ANY manual, in the end I could tell you a bunch of stuff about whatever I read, but in the end, there wouldn't be any experience to back up what I read.

Just like I said, it's all about the relationship, and the moment you make that very first step to even try, watch and see what everything around you does. Does your world go into chaos? Do your emotions fly into a complete torrent? As long as you stay deceived, and living life as if this is all there is, there won't be any of the bad stuff, short of all the things that we try to fill that void in our life with.... But the moment you start to work your way toward Jesus, the enemy will war against you.

Your standard of truth that you were talking about has been established, but then it has also been under assualt, to the point that truth is now relative. If I want to believe in the FSM, then I have the right and freedom to do so, because my perception of truth is relative to how I feel. But here's a news flash: how can true emotions come out of a wicked and corrupt heart? We all have one, it's part of the human condition! There is no one, NO ONE who is sinless and perfect, ALL have fallen short of the glory, and there's only ONE way in, would you be interested in taking the step?

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June 15th, 2011, 11:53 pm
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
WOW! We're now up to five pages of bullshit concerning a cartoon. :lol:

Doesn't anybody else see the irony in this?

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June 16th, 2011, 12:00 am
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Ok here's the rub: Augshum you are trying to reason something with your mind that can only be understood, through faith and relationship.

If you are married: Does anyone know your wife like you do? You know here intimately, through relationship, through spending time with her, chasing after her, loving her, needing her. You are able to be completely honest about who you are and what makes you tick because she loves you in return. So in that context you are free, to know and love her like NO ONE ELSE ON EARTH. Children, and parents can not know her to the level you do.

Now, do you want to know God, do you want to know if He exists? It takes one very small step, one choice to reach out in faith and say, "I don't know where my foots, going to land, but I'm going to trust that you will move Heaven and Earth, to make sure that my foot lands on solid ground." I can not explain to you, or prove to you that which you can not see. It's all about the relationship with Him, He has so much in store for mankind, so much to give and offer us, that would blow our minds, but on the flip side we have a very much alive enemy who is doing all he can to keep us in the dark. Fear, anger, unbelief, pain, shame, guilt, you name it, these are the weapons that rage against our hearts, so that we hurt too much to even dare to attempt to believe anything else.

Buddha promise enlightenment
Mohammed promised virgins
and so on....

Jesus, He promises eternal life, and eternal relationship with a Heavenly Father, who saw that man was wicked beyond repair, that is until He made a way! For all of the reading that you've done, and I'm impressed if it's true, and I have no reason to doubt, did anything there help you get to know Him? I can read any manual you set before me, ANY manual, in the end I could tell you a bunch of stuff about whatever I read, but in the end, there wouldn't be any experience to back up what I read.

Just like I said, it's all about the relationship, and the moment you make that very first step to even try, watch and see what everything around you does. Does your world go into chaos? Do your emotions fly into a complete torrent? As long as you stay deceived, and living life as if this is all there is, there won't be any of the bad stuff, short of all the things that we try to fill that void in our life with.... But the moment you start to work your way toward Jesus, the enemy will war against you.

Your standard of truth that you were talking about has been established, but then it has also been under assualt, to the point that truth is now relative. If I want to believe in the FSM, then I have the right and freedom to do so, because my perception of truth is relative to how I feel. But here's a news flash: how can true emotions come out of a wicked and corrupt heart? We all have one, it's part of the human condition! There is no one, NO ONE who is sinless and perfect, ALL have fallen short of the glory, and there's only ONE way in, would you be interested in taking the step?


What the research led me to was large number of similar religions throughout history that Christianity seems to discredit entirely, despite the fact Christianity itself is based off of those religions.. Going back as far as the book of the dead, the stories told in the religious works of these religions parallel each other.

I can't blindly believe in anything, if god wants to come down and have a beer with me, I'll believe, until then, it's just a belief system that exists for the sake of having something to believe in.


June 16th, 2011, 12:07 am
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Post Re: South Park coming to an end.
I think everyone here can surmise what my feelings about the 1st Amendment are, so there's no need to get into that. But with that said, with free speech, comes responsibility and consequences. For instance, you can't scream, "Fire!" in a crowded building. A person doing so would be responsible for any deaths or injuries that resulted by their actions. Also, you can't lie about someone (unless you're a politician), or else you can be brought to court for slander or libel. This "right" also doesn't apply in the private sector where you can't tell your boss to, "Go F Yourself!" or anything like that. There are limitations, based upon common sense, which the government shouldn't be involved in whatsoever. Let the people decide what is acceptable and what is not.

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June 16th, 2011, 12:17 am
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