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 Has anyone seen this show? 
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
Pablo wrote:
Just because something isn't physical, like tomorrow or gravity for that matter, doesn't mean proof doesn't exist.


Interesting statement Pablo......think of how ironic it is that you make this statement, but yet demand proof of existence of God.

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June 24th, 2011, 3:44 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Just because something isn't physical, like tomorrow or gravity for that matter, doesn't mean proof doesn't exist.


Interesting statement Pablo......think of how ironic it is that you make this statement, but yet demand proof of existence of God.


Ironic would be if proof for gravity and tommorw doesn't exist yet I still "believed", but proof does exist so there is no irony here.

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June 24th, 2011, 3:48 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
Pablo wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Just because something isn't physical, like tomorrow or gravity for that matter, doesn't mean proof doesn't exist.


Interesting statement Pablo......think of how ironic it is that you make this statement, but yet demand proof of existence of God.


Ironic would be if proof for gravity and tommorw doesn't exist yet I still "believed", but proof does exist so there is no irony here.


No, there is no proof of tomorrow. You are confusing proof with a high probability. That's two different things entirely. And lest we forget, for some unfortunate few people, there will be no tomorrow because they will die before this day is ended. Tomorrow is a relative term that is applicable only to those who believe they will be here for a long enough time.

Just because God has not shown himself to you in physical form for your amusement doesn't mean that proof hasn't been given to you. You have two sons. How long did you and your wife attempt to have kids? Now you suddenly were able to produce not one, but two children after years of trying? Sounds like an answer to a wish (prayer) for someone.

I apologize in advance if you feel that is too personal a subject to discuss here. No offense intended, at all. But I could think of nothing else to help you understand what I would feel is "proof".

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June 24th, 2011, 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
Prayers have statisically zero impact on situations. Proof positive they are useless to impact any sort of change.

Didn't NEWSWEEK or one of the medical journals do a study on how prayer affected patients, and was documented with recovery times, healings and other occurrences. Seems to me I heard that on National News, oh but wait that was main stream media, that can't be right.

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June 24th, 2011, 4:14 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Prayers have statisically zero impact on situations. Proof positive they are useless to impact any sort of change.

Didn't NEWSWEEK or one of the medical journals do a study on how prayer affected patients, and was documented with recovery times, healings and other occurrences. Seems to me I heard that on National News, oh but wait that was main stream media, that can't be right.


The most comprehensive study, to my knowledge, actually showed the opposite effect. A group of ill patients were split into three groups, one group had nobody pray for them, a second group had a devoted group pray for them but were not told about them, and the third group had were told about the prayers for them.

Results: the first two groups had the exact same recovery rates (showing prayer has zero impact), while the third group fared a lower recovery rate. Why? Power of the mind, these patients thought that their situations were so bad that they needed groups to pray for them in order to recover thus in their minds making the situation worse than reality.

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June 24th, 2011, 4:23 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
hmmmm I wonder where you read that at...(no sarcasm..actual curiosity).

I read that the reason most hospitals have crosses on the wall is beacuse the stats show a Higher (faster) recovery rate....

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June 24th, 2011, 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
http://youtu.be/02Tp5A6N8FY

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June 25th, 2011, 11:16 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
steensn wrote:
http://youtu.be/02Tp5A6N8FY



Booo Dude...whats next? an episode of vegietales? That was just awful! That was worse than being Rick Rolled!

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June 27th, 2011, 8:14 pm
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
Sorry, was doing VBS all week and it fit.

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June 28th, 2011, 12:06 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
regularjoe12 wrote:
hmmmm I wonder where you read that at...(no sarcasm..actual curiosity).

I read that the reason most hospitals have crosses on the wall is beacuse the stats show a Higher (faster) recovery rate....


Here is one study

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

NY Times wrote:
Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer

Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.

Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation.

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June 28th, 2011, 9:33 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
interesting...

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June 28th, 2011, 11:04 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
I'm going to agree with the quote from this guy in the article:

"A person of faith would say that this study is interesting," Mr. Barth said, "but we've been praying a long time and we've seen prayer work, we know it works, and the research on prayer and spirituality is just getting started."

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June 28th, 2011, 11:12 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
steensn wrote:
I'm going to agree with the quote from this guy in the article:

"A person of faith would say that this study is interesting," Mr. Barth said, "but we've been praying a long time and we've seen prayer work, we know it works, and the research on prayer and spirituality is just getting started."


Of course you would, they guys says he has seen prayer work (if you are looking for it you will find it), he knows it works (again, if you are predisposed to believe something), yet the FACTS say otherwise. But who needs facts when you have faith? Funny how even facts never seem to get in the way of faith, you can have all facts and studies point in the opposite direction yet those with faith refuse to let go of their beliefs despite all the contrary evidence. Just shows how irrational and illogical faith is.

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June 28th, 2011, 11:22 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
No Pablo... it just shows how well we actually understand what the test proves. It is the most comprehensive test to date on prayer and results... no question. But it still doesn't address the issue that if you can find ONE single instance where it is clear supernatural healing took place that you have then proven prayer does something.

What these test results show is that over a pretty large sample base, statistical anomolies are easily greater than any effect prayer had on the test group. It DOES NOT prove prayer doesn't do anything, to say so show how little a person actually understands of what the test results mean. Another wild card here is that there was no control put in place regarding the control group... who can identify that they were NOT prayed for? Statistically one can assume MANY of the control group actually had persons praying for them, maybe not just the one of the three churches. There is simply nothing to say this test is conclusive because it is clear that one cannot really put the controls in place as one would need to do have a clean test.

The contention is that prayers does things, to what extent or level I think is where this study comes into play. The issue is, you want to jump on the "facts" badnwagon, yet it is clear these are not facts, just studies. You are overstating the test results.

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June 28th, 2011, 11:32 am
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Post Re: Has anyone seen this show?
they guys says he has seen prayer work (if you are looking for it you will find it),

Could the same be true of God????

:P

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June 28th, 2011, 11:37 am
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