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 Call Off the Global Drug War 
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Lots of diseases don't show themselves until a person deliberately or accidentally puts them into the situation where it shows itself. People get fat and they get diabetes, they made that choice, but it is a disease and MUST be treated or the person will die. If the source of the disease is a person's weight.. do you propose throwing that person in a room till they thin up and don't have diabetes? What about Prader-Willi syndrome? They are preconditions to always be hungry... isn't it just willpower to not eat?

Why is it that we would consider making a special case for addictions when one can't justify why it is treated different?

disease: broadly refers to any condition that impairs normal function

If someone is prone to a greatly increased predisposition to addiction to something, why isn't that a disease? Because you just want them to "man up" or you have a problem with the medical communities treatment for it? Go after the issue, not the burying your head on the condition. If the issue is how we treat it, focus on that.

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July 14th, 2011, 10:26 am
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Nice try on that rather weak definition of a disease. Let's look at the medical definition.

Quote:
an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions, is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms, and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors


Alcoholism and addiction don't fall into any of that. There are no tests known that can detect alcoholism or addiction. And while it has been shown that the children of alcholics and drug addicts can be somewhat pre-disposed to following in their parents' path, they can avoid the "disease" by not partaking. That's not the definition of a disease. The cause of a disease is not the disease itself. If I avoid swimming in the Amazon, there are a number of diseases I can avoid getting. Is swimming a disease?

Prader-Willi syndrome, if I recall, is the result of a body not producing an enzyme that tells the brain the stomach is full. Therefore, we are talking about a physical issue that the person CANNOT control. That is a CONGENITAL disease. It is detectable, if the correct tests are performed. Obesity is NOT a disease, but can bring about diseases. Anyone who simply overeats and chooses not to execute some restraint and/or exercise and then gets diabetes is no different to me than someone who is an alcoholic and gets diabeters, or cirrhosis of the liver, or a smoker who gets lung cancer. They have a compulsion that brought on a disease. The compulsion is NOT A DISEASE.

For the record, I don't consider not eating a disease, but it can cause Anorexia. This is a condition brought on by a persons choice to not eat. Their body tells them otherwise, and they ignore it. So is not eating a disease? It becomes a disease once that persons body no longer accepts food. But the CHOICE to not eat is not a disease.

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July 14th, 2011, 11:09 am
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Just because we can't define it yet doesn't mean we are pretty sure there is something there. Research will show us... this is like lots of early diseases we thought where caused by something but haven't discovered yet what it is.

Choice to start doesn't mean the effects of that choice don't turn to a disease. Choice to eat peanuts and have Anaphylaxis shock doesn't mean a disease doesn't exist. They have a choice to not eat a peanut... the reaction is still a disease just like the persons ability to counter the addictive properties of some drugs are enhanced greatly.

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July 14th, 2011, 11:51 am
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
steensn wrote:
Just because we can't define it yet doesn't mean we are pretty sure there is something there. Research will show us... this is like lots of early diseases we thought where caused by something but haven't discovered yet what it is.

Choice to start doesn't mean the effects of that choice don't turn to a disease. Choice to eat peanuts and have Anaphylaxis shock doesn't mean a disease doesn't exist. They have a choice to not eat a peanut... the reaction is still a disease just like the persons ability to counter the addictive properties of some drugs are enhanced greatly.


Once again, an apples to oranges comparison. A person eating a peanut is accepted as a rather benign act. Being allergic to it CAN be found out if the tests are done....though there is little reason to do so if the person has not experienced allergic reactions previously. However, that allergy is a pre-existing condition and detectable. If the person KNOWS that they have said peanut allergy, and chooses to eat them anyways, how smart are they, really? And why should we help someone who elects to continue destroying themselves? A person who becomes addicted is no different. They are choosing to continue their own path of destruction.

One drink doesn't create alcoholism. However, one peanut can kill a person who has that particular allergy. Completely different situation. You rarely find a person with an peanut allergy knowingly ingesting them. An alcoholic knowingly goes about their continued drinking. THEY HAVE A CHOICE TO STOP. Same thing goes for a drug addict. They have a choice.

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July 14th, 2011, 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Per the AMA:
Quote:
When scientists first started to study drug abuse, people addicted to drugs were thought to be morally flawed and lacking in willpower. This view has shaped society’s response to drug abuse, treating it as a moral failing rather than a health problem, resulting in punitive rather than preventative and therapeutic actions. Due to groundbreaking scientific discoveries, we now recognize drug addiction as a brain disease that can be successfully prevented and treated.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload ... iction.pdf

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July 14th, 2011, 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
so a pill for addiction.....wonder if ITS addictive?

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July 14th, 2011, 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Like M2k said before, the AMA wants it classified as a disease because they profit off it. The NYU medical group does the same thing. What goes directly to the point that its ingenuine, is they only classify addiction to alcohol and drugs that aren't prescribed as a disease. If you get addicted to prescription drugs its not considered a disease. Why? Because then they could be sued for malpractice.


July 14th, 2011, 3:40 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
m2karateman wrote:
steensn wrote:
Just because we can't define it yet doesn't mean we are pretty sure there is something there. Research will show us... this is like lots of early diseases we thought where caused by something but haven't discovered yet what it is.

Choice to start doesn't mean the effects of that choice don't turn to a disease. Choice to eat peanuts and have Anaphylaxis shock doesn't mean a disease doesn't exist. They have a choice to not eat a peanut... the reaction is still a disease just like the persons ability to counter the addictive properties of some drugs are enhanced greatly.


Once again, an apples to oranges comparison. A person eating a peanut is accepted as a rather benign act. Being allergic to it CAN be found out if the tests are done....though there is little reason to do so if the person has not experienced allergic reactions previously. However, that allergy is a pre-existing condition and detectable. If the person KNOWS that they have said peanut allergy, and chooses to eat them anyways, how smart are they, really? And why should we help someone who elects to continue destroying themselves? A person who becomes addicted is no different. They are choosing to continue their own path of destruction.

One drink doesn't create alcoholism. However, one peanut can kill a person who has that particular allergy. Completely different situation. You rarely find a person with an peanut allergy knowingly ingesting them. An alcoholic knowingly goes about their continued drinking. THEY HAVE A CHOICE TO STOP. Same thing goes for a drug addict. They have a choice.


One drink of alcohol can fuel the start of an addiction. Everyone has a choice to do a lot of things that cause disease. Luckily that has never been a requirement for being a disease. You are looking for reasons to not call it a disease because you think it somehow takes away responsibility... I am saying it is only that way if you want to continue this silly notion that a disease removes responsibility. It's BS and it feeds the idiocy of our society.

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July 14th, 2011, 4:48 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
You guys are right, doctors don't want to help anyone... they just want to make money. We should boycott the medical community because things like AIDS don't exist...

http://www.altheal.org/

They just want to make money! Greedy jerks!

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July 14th, 2011, 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Does the CDC, which lists every known disease, list addiction or drug abuse? No.


July 14th, 2011, 5:09 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
njroar wrote:
Does the CDC, which lists every known disease, list addiction or drug abuse? No.

You do realize the CDC is the Government, right? Last I checked, there weren't too many around here (or anywhere, really) that trusts everything the Govt tells us.

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July 14th, 2011, 5:19 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
But that's the official list of known and recognized diseases, viruses, etc.. Its an official reference point.


July 14th, 2011, 5:53 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Maybe instead of pointing form conjecture you post the list so we can look at it? Or take the time to look at tell us it doesn't? Do they list allergic reactions?

Here is from the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm

"Dependency on alcohol, also known as alcohol addiction and alcoholism4, is a chronic disease."

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July 14th, 2011, 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
Did you bother to look at the reference?

Quote:
4- Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), published by the American Psychiatric Association, Washington D.C., 1994.


Again, mental and physical disease is different. The AMA and other are trying to classify it as a physical disease.

And final point... For someone that wants to help them to break the addiction... When you enforce the mentality that its not their fault, but a disease that forces them to continue, you're enforcing the failure. Its why the failure rate is so high in AA and other 12 step programs.


July 14th, 2011, 7:19 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Call Off the Global Drug War
The CDC referenced why they considered it a disease... end of story.

And you are finally getting to the point. I don't care what it may or may not convey to them.. it IS a disease and we should figure out how to react and treat it properly. Your not arguing the fact it is or is not a disease, you are arguing the fact you don't like OUR reaction to that fact. You are misplacing your focus...

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July 14th, 2011, 7:38 pm
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