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 Is it time to legalize? 
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
We all interpet the bible differently, I interpet the apple from the tree of knowledge as weed.


June 23rd, 2011, 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
Wags, that quote just shows how clearly someone decided not to take the Bible in context. The Bible doesn't say chopping off someones right arm is a sin yet it is clearly wrong... It's a dumb argument to make...

As well, the Bible notes people sinning ALL THE TIME. Doesn't make it right...

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June 23rd, 2011, 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
Sory wags, I didn't answer the 2nd part because I dont have an answer. even after reading your follow up (which I dont really buy...sorry) I still dont know. I DO know it says all seeded plants should be harvested! That a fair enough compramise?


June 23rd, 2011, 6:35 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
With all due respect, what does being Christian have anything to do with Cannabis??? Is there a commandment against using??? :confused:
And isn't Hemp/Cannabis actually mentioned in the Bible?


It's all in the part about your body being a temple and watching what you put into it. I don't drink alcohol. I even quit smoking cigarettes almost 2 years ago. That was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I could not have quit without GOD's help.

Yes, I know the part about the body being a temple, however that's not what I was referring to. Also noticed that the 3 of you who answered my first question, didn't even bother with the second, let's try again, shall we...
Quote:
And isn't Hemp/Cannabis actually mentioned in the Bible?


For example:
Quote:
And the earth brought forth grass and herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:12)

God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so." And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Gen. 1:29-31)

(No prohibition of cannabis or any other drug is made in the Ten Commandments: See Ex. 20:1-17)

(Cannabis is mentioned in Ex. 30:23 but King James mistranslated it as 'sweet calamus') :
Moreover, the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 23 Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even 250 shekels, and of qaneh-bosm [cannabis] 250 shekels, 24 And of cassia 500 shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin: 25 And thou shalt make it an oil of holy anointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil. 26 And thous shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony, 27 And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick ahd his vessels, and the altar of incense, 28 And the altar of burnt offerings with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot. 29 And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy. (Exodus 30:22-29)

* As one shekel equals approximately 16.37 grams, this means that the THC from over 9 pounds of flowering cannabis tops were extracted into a hind, about 6.5 litres of oil. The entheogenic effects of such a solution -- even when applied topically -would undoubtedly have been intense.

These are from just one example I found in a matter of 2 mins (http://www.equalrights4all.org/religiou ... htm#Quotes)
Could these be incorrectly attributed to the Bible or perhaps misinterpreted? Of course, but that's why I'm asking for your impressions/thoughts...


I am not certain about that. I don't know enough about translations from the original language into modern day American English.
I would assume that cannabis would fall under the category with the other herbs. And if GOD does allow the use of cannabis, it would not be for smoking I am sure.


June 23rd, 2011, 8:43 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
BillySims wrote:

I am not certain about that. I don't know enough about translations from the original language into modern day American English.
I would assume that cannabis would fall under the category with the other herbs. And if GOD does allow the use of cannabis, it would not be for smoking I am sure.


Eating, then?


June 23rd, 2011, 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
aughsum wrote:
BillySims wrote:

I am not certain about that. I don't know enough about translations from the original language into modern day American English.
I would assume that cannabis would fall under the category with the other herbs. And if GOD does allow the use of cannabis, it would not be for smoking I am sure.


Eating, then?


Like you would any other herb, Yes.

edited to add:

So snoop dog's bake sale is IMHO biblically legal. LOL.


June 23rd, 2011, 9:22 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
BillySims wrote:
aughsum wrote:
BillySims wrote:

I am not certain about that. I don't know enough about translations from the original language into modern day American English.
I would assume that cannabis would fall under the category with the other herbs. And if GOD does allow the use of cannabis, it would not be for smoking I am sure.


Eating, then?


Like you would any other herb, Yes.

edited to add:

So snoop dog's bake sale is IMHO biblically legal. LOL.


Sounds good to me.

Making a big batch of cannibutter next week.


June 23rd, 2011, 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
Quote:
Cannabis, Money and Common sense
The marijuana crisis in the United States

By Reynold N. Mason JD

At long last, the burning issue of marijuana has been placed on the front burner of American politics. The two brave lawmakers stirring the political pot are Representatives Ron Paul and Barney Frank. They have introduced HR 2306, a bill aimed at decriminalizing the distribution and sale of marijuana. No doubt the task of garnering the votes required to pass this bill is gargantuan, and at this juncture, nearly impossible. But it is a commonsense new approach to an old problem now approaching crisis proportions.

Growing opposition to punitive marijuana policies

Increasing numbers of people––physicians, lawyers, judges, police, journalists, scientists, public health officials, teachers, religious leaders, social workers, drug users and drug addicts––now openly criticize the more extreme, punitive, and criminalized forms of drug prohibition. These critics, from across the political spectrum, have pointed out that punitive drug policies are expensive, ineffective at reducing drug abuse, take scarce resources away from other public health and policing activities, and are often racially and ethnically discriminatory.

U.S. drug laws mandate long prison sentences for repeated possession, use, and small-scale distribution of Marijuana. The Rockefeller drug laws have, over the decades, criminalized even users of small amounts of Marijuana. Many U.S. drug laws explicitly remove sentencing discretion from judges and do not allow for probation or parole. In the 1980s, the Reagan and Bush administrations substantially increased criminal penalties for drug possession and launched an expensive "War on Drugs." There are nearly half a million men and women in prison for violating its drug laws. Most are poor people of color who are imprisoned for possessing an illicit drug or "intending" to sell small amounts of it. The mandatory federal penalty for possessing 5 grams of crack cocaine, for a first offense, is 5 years in prison with no parole.

The most glaring weakness and the greatest misuse of tax dollars is plethora of marijuana laws across the US. Cannabis grows wild throughout the world, and is commercially cultivated in remote areas, in backyard gardens, and in technologically sophisticated indoor growing operations. Just as it was impossible for prohibitionists to prevent alcohol from being produced and used in the U.S. in the 1920s, so too, it is now impossible to prevent cannabis from being produced and widely used by those who desire its perceived benefits. Overwhelmed law enforcement lack the resources to arrest young people for minor marijuana infractions. And this inability to enforce the law breeds disrespect for law among the young who come to think they can violate the law with impunity. As a result the enormous and unstoppable use and production of marijuana has created a crisis of legitimacy for law enforcement.

Politicians, policy makers, police officials, journalists, and ordinary tourists from many countries have seen that decriminalizing cannabis use and regulating cannabis sales have substantial advantages and benefits––especially when compared with the disadvantages and costs of punitive U.S. drug policies. Since the 1980’s, and particularly since the Rockefeller drug laws in New York, Americans have come to realize that the criminalization of marijuana is harsh, expensive and ineffective. There have been movements afoot to decriminalize and ultimately legitimize the use of small quantities of the drug over the years. But the opposition has been steadfast. Marijuana is still classified as a banned substance by the FDA. All indications are that this likely will remain the case. Chairman Lamar Smith of the House Judiciary Committee says he has no intention of bringing the proposed new law to the floor for discussion. But there are chinks appearing in the armor of the marijuana prohibition movement

Lessons from Prohibition

There is an irony is the Chairman’s position. The anti alcohol movement too had its most staunch backer and supporter in a man who, in the 1920’s, occupied the same chairmanship now held by Rep. Smith. His name was Andrew Volstead. He was the sponsor of the bill named for him that eventually led to prohibition… The Volstead Act. He, along with his supporters, devoted themselves to banning alcohol and convincing the American public that it was dangerous in any form; that alcohol destroyed the moral character and physical and mental health of those who imbibed. They regarded booze in any form as a menace in much the same way that proponents of criminalization of marijuana do today…an inherently dangerous substance, the use of which leads inexorably to abuse of harder drugs such as cocaine and other hallucinogens. Drug use is blamed for evils of all sorts, from unemployment to poverty and crime to violence. Reduce drug use they say, and you reduce and banish the scourge of many of our social ills. They view the ban on drugs as a panacea.

But those who support the ban on marijuana are following the script of their predecessors in the prohibition movement. If the history of the prohibition movement taught us anything, it is that that movement to ban and criminalize the use of marijuana is doomed. It will not lead to prosperity and, will not increase law and order. Marijuana laws are openly and notoriously violated today and Marijuana is readily available on the streets and on college campuses. Young people can purchase marijuana more readily than they can a six pack. Sellers of illegal drugs to not check ID.

Banning marijuana does not stop people from obtaining and using it. Where there is a demand there will always be a supplier. People in the marijuana trade are small scale entrepreneurs. Busting the drug cartels will not have a lasting effect and, would not reduce the supply for long. Marijuana production is not centralized; the weed is grown in little family plots and the small producers would just move in to fill the void created by the big busts. After repeal of prohibition people did not suddenly switch from beer to hard liquor. And there is no basis to believe that recreational uses of marijuana will switch to the use of cocaine or other hard drugs, if its sale and use is decriminalized.

Dollars and common sense

Marijuana is the most widely used illicit drug in the world. According to a UN study 162 million people use marijuana annually, for religious, recreational, medicinal or spiritual purposes. There is no scientific agreement about any long term ill effects of marijuana use. Fourteen states have legalized the medicinal and recreational use of marijuana and have de-criminalized possession of small amounts of the drug. This puts state laws in conflict with federal law. The FDA now finds itself in the odd position of conducting raids on marijuana dispensaries in Colorado and California that are perfectly legal under the laws of these states.

The states as well as the federal government expend billions on marijuana enforcement. In 2003 there were 755,000 marijuana arrests in the U.S. These numbers are increasing and with them the costs of enforcement are skyrocketing. In 1973 the FDA had 2800 employees and an annual budget of $65 million. In 2009 the budget had grown to $2.6 billion and the number of employees to 11,000. NORMAL (National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws) estimates that New York spent $3 billion, New Jersey and Ohio $1billion each, Texas California and Florida about $2 billion each to enforce marijuana laws. While billions are being spent, drug cartels are raking in 70 % of their profits from sales of marijuana in U.S. sales alone. One study put the cost at $ 10, 200 for every marijuana smoker arrested.

Wrong on all levels

The ban breeds, rather than prevents criminal activity. It encourages teenagers to become criminal entrepreneurs in the illegal drug trade. While arrests increase there is no corresponding decrease in marijuana use of its availability. The ban on marijuana is simply wrong on all levels. College students busted for smoking a joint are criminalized and marked for life. And it is no surprise that blacks suffer the slings of outrageous and biased enforcement more than any other group. Blacks make up 1.9 % of marijuana users but account for 23 % of the arrests. In places like South Dakota, the disparity is even more pronounced. Blacks and Indians are arrested at a 1:9 ratio as against whites. And one of every four arrests is of young people under the age of 18. The current policy does not produce the intended results. Yet the more it fails the more money we throw at the problem.

A way out

California NORML estimates that a legally regulated market for marijuana could yield the state at least $1.2 billion in tax revenues and reduced enforcement costs. A basic $50/ounce excise tax (roughly $1/joint) would yield about $770 - 900 million per year plus another $240-360 million in sales taxes. In addition, the state would save over $200 million in enforcement costs for arrests, prosecutions and prison. Additional benefits would accrue from increased employment and spinoff industries. Total retail sales of marijuana could be on the order of $3-$5 billion, with total economic impact of $12-$18 billion including spinoff industries such as coffeehouses, tourism, plus industrial hemp. http://www.canormal.org

The legalization of drug production and sales and the establishment of drug control along the lines of alcohol control is a reasonable and practical policy option. Therefore, it would mark a significant advance if the current U.S. debate on drug policy could be moved beyond the question of whether such a system of legalized drug control is possible. It Is. Colorado, California and fourteen of their sister states already have in place legalized and sensible systems of decriminalizing the distribution and use of limited quantities of marijuana. And governor Christie of New Jersey this week implemented a scheme to license a limited number of dispensaries where marijuana can be legally purchased. The New Jersey plan was shelved to make certain that it did not run afoul of federal law. The proposal by Ron Paul and Barney Frank provides an opportunity for rational and non- moralistic debate on a workable system of at least partially legalized marijuana production and sales.

In the years before constitutional prohibition in the United States, there had been little systematic control of the alcohol industry. In 1933 a sprawling illegal industry for producing and distributing alcoholic beverages was in place, composed of uncountable numbers of small independent distributors and producers, and some larger ones. These sold whatever they wanted to whomever they chose and paid no taxes. Alcohol control put an end to nearly all of the lawlessness. Liquor stores are licensed and the time place and manner of every aspect of their operation is tightly regulated. And because towns, cities, counties, states and countries vary enormously, liquor policies are shaped according to local environments. There are still cities in Georgia and a number of other states that are referred to as “dry” because no alcohol sales are permitted. Consumers who desire to purchase the product must purchase it out of town.

In a June 29 memorandum, the Justice Department said it was primarily concerned with large money-making operations that also supplied the black market. Indicating that states like New Jersey, Colorado and California will be free to proceed to decriminalize marijuana. Let’s hope the Feds follow suit, and soon. A good start would be to give serious consideration to HR 2306, now gathering dust on the table.

http://news.jornal.us/article-5775.Cana ... sense.html

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July 21st, 2011, 9:10 am
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
While I agree that the FDA needs to re-categorize Marajuana, that article is probably the worst argument I've seen for that to happen. Hate to say it but I found this artcle to be filled with mostly crap.


July 21st, 2011, 9:40 am
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
regularjoe12 wrote:
While I agree that the FDA needs to re-categorize Marajuana, that article is probably the worst argument I've seen for that to happen. Hate to say it but I found this artcle to be filled with mostly crap.

Care to be more specific? Or is it that you don't think there are any similarities between alcohol and marijuana? Just wondering here....

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July 21st, 2011, 9:50 am
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
Im at work and dont have time to point out all the things that discredit the author in my mind to the full extent but I'll give ya a couple of examples here:

Quote:
poor people of color who are imprisoned for possessing an illicit drug or "intending" to sell small amounts of it.


why the racial implications? Should we be talkiing about the whuite devil? or how hard it is to be a minority? Anyone who knows the history of pot knows that the law was originally passed as a racist bill to stop black men from raping white women. (rediculous as it is, thats the sad truth). But in todays day and age..to imply any racial biased on todays laws? stupid IMO.

Quote:
Overwhelmed law enforcement lack the resources to arrest young people for minor marijuana infractions. And this inability to enforce the law breeds disrespect for law among the young who come to think they can violate the law with impunity. As a result the enormous and unstoppable use and production of marijuana has created a crisis of legitimacy for law enforcement.


any real evidence to support this theory? thre is SOME truth to this im sure, but seems to me that things like oh I dont know Underbudgetted police forces are a MUCH large cause of the things named in this part.

Quote:
Drug use is blamed for evils of all sorts, from unemployment to poverty

Really? Pot usage causes unemployment? Never heard of this as a problem before..oncve again...evdience please?


There is more. I guess I view the article as an opinion piece and threfor dismiss it as any matters of fact. I AM however, happy to see that the bill attepting to happen (the basis behind the article) is endorsed by Ron Paul.


July 21st, 2011, 10:39 am
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
regularjoe12 wrote:
Im at work and dont have time to point out all the things that discredit the author in my mind to the full extent but I'll give ya a couple of examples here:

Quote:
poor people of color who are imprisoned for possessing an illicit drug or "intending" to sell small amounts of it.


why the racial implications? Should we be talkiing about the whuite devil? or how hard it is to be a minority? Anyone who knows the history of pot knows that the law was originally passed as a racist bill to stop black men from raping white women. (rediculous as it is, thats the sad truth). But in todays day and age..to imply any racial biased on todays laws? stupid IMO.
Why the racial implications? Maybe because he's right in that a larger number of the arrests for MJ are blacks and hispanics. Which brings me to this fact: A large part of the reason the law was passed is because "the brown people" are doing it, referring to Mexicans of course. There were other reasons too, such as you stated..which are racial as well. Quite simply, at least part of the reason MJ is illegal on the Fed level has to do with race, whether it be African Americans or Hispanics.

regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
Overwhelmed law enforcement lack the resources to arrest young people for minor marijuana infractions. And this inability to enforce the law breeds disrespect for law among the young who come to think they can violate the law with impunity. As a result the enormous and unstoppable use and production of marijuana has created a crisis of legitimacy for law enforcement.

any real evidence to support this theory? thre is SOME truth to this im sure, but seems to me that things like oh I dont know Underbudgetted police forces are a MUCH large cause of the things named in this part.

I thought that statement was a bit odd too; seems a bit contradictory. That being said, under-budgeted??? Really? Maybe it only seems like that because they're budgeting for the wrong things, like say the "War on Drugs." IF they took the money allocated to fight the Drug War and reallocate to something else, the police wouldn't be 'under-budgeted' as you put it.

regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
Drug use is blamed for evils of all sorts, from unemployment to poverty

Really? Pot usage causes unemployment? Never heard of this as a problem before..oncve again...evdience please?

Read it again. DRUG use is blamed for all sorts of evils in today's society...and MJ is a drug. Did the author say MJ was to blame? No, he said drugs which, to me, includes cocaine, heroin, etc. And you're saying you've never heard of a 'stoner' getting so high they can't make it to work? Do it enough times and you'll lose your job. Also, don't forget about drug testing...places that do this will terminate someone who fails said test, hence unemployment.

regularjoe12 wrote:
I AM however, happy to see that the bill attepting to happen (the basis behind the article) is endorsed by Ron Paul.
Agreed. Although I have no illusions the bill will go anywhere at this time, at least someone is trying to make a difference and IMO the more times it is brought up, the closer we will get to finally having a real, honest discussion on the topic.

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July 21st, 2011, 11:13 am
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
Quote:
Why the racial implications? Maybe because he's right in that a larger number of the arrests for MJ are blacks and hispanics. Which brings me to this fact: A large part of the reason the law was passed is because "the brown people" are doing it, referring to Mexicans of course. There were other reasons too, such as you stated..which are racial as well. Quite simply, at least part of the reason MJ is illegal on the Fed level has to do with race, whether it be African Americans or Hispanics.


There is no denying that when the laws were set up they were originally set up with racism in mind. cant argue that....but TODAY do you feel they are in any way racially biased? Do you feel like Minorities are gettign harsher penalties? or The White Devil isn't getting arrested for it when caught? To me there is NO TIES to race in this issue (anymore). yes there are more minorities in trouble with the law due to drugs, but to me at least that has everything to do with [poverty levels, not skin color. sad fact...a much higher %'s of minorities ride the poverty line than us Crackers do. there is your tie in..not drug laws.

Quote:
I thought that statement was a bit odd too; seems a bit contradictory. That being said, under-budgeted??? Really? Maybe it only seems like that because they're budgeting for the wrong things, like say the "War on Drugs." IF they took the money allocated to fight the Drug War and reallocate to something else, the police wouldn't be 'under-budgeted' as you put it.


this is probably a case if me thinkin to locally. Sad fact...Flint has well over 100K people living in it, but can only afford to have at MOST 10 officers on duty any given day of the week. Thats a budgeting problem.

Quote:
Read it again. DRUG use is blamed for all sorts of evils in today's society...and MJ is a drug. Did the author say MJ was to blame? No, he said drugs which, to me, includes cocaine, heroin, etc. And you're saying you've never heard of a 'stoner' getting so high they can't make it to work? Do it enough times and you'll lose your job. Also, don't forget about drug testing...places that do this will terminate someone who fails said test, hence unemployment.



this leads me to another problem with the article...it bouces all over. I thought it was supposed to be about legalizing pot. Buit as you pointed out it ties it to alcohol and other drugs. for example..why is this statment even in the article to begin with:
Quote:
The mandatory federal penalty for possessing 5 grams of crack cocaine, for a first offense, is 5 years in prison with no parole.



Crack isn't even part of the discussion! whats the point here?? are you getting why even as a "legalize it" advocate, I dismiss this article?


July 21st, 2011, 12:47 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
Why the racial implications? Maybe because he's right in that a larger number of the arrests for MJ are blacks and hispanics. Which brings me to this fact: A large part of the reason the law was passed is because "the brown people" are doing it, referring to Mexicans of course. There were other reasons too, such as you stated..which are racial as well. Quite simply, at least part of the reason MJ is illegal on the Fed level has to do with race, whether it be African Americans or Hispanics.

There is no denying that when the laws were set up they were originally set up with racism in mind. cant argue that....but TODAY do you feel they are in any way racially biased? Do you feel like Minorities are gettign harsher penalties? or The White Devil isn't getting arrested for it when caught? To me there is NO TIES to race in this issue (anymore). yes there are more minorities in trouble with the law due to drugs, but to me at least that has everything to do with [poverty levels, not skin color. sad fact...a much higher %'s of minorities ride the poverty line than us Crackers do. there is your tie in..not drug laws.

Yes, the drug laws are racially biased, even today. For example, the same amount/weight of powder cocaine and crack cocaine will get 2 completely different penalties with crack being worse. According to statistics, whites are the majority that use powder and blacks are the majority that use crack. Now, does that seem at all fair or balanced? Not IMO.

regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
Read it again. DRUG use is blamed for all sorts of evils in today's society...and MJ is a drug. Did the author say MJ was to blame? No, he said drugs which, to me, includes cocaine, heroin, etc. And you're saying you've never heard of a 'stoner' getting so high they can't make it to work? Do it enough times and you'll lose your job. Also, don't forget about drug testing...places that do this will terminate someone who fails said test, hence unemployment.



this leads me to another problem with the article...it bouces all over. I thought it was supposed to be about legalizing pot. Buit as you pointed out it ties it to alcohol and other drugs. for example..why is this statment even in the article to begin with:
Quote:
The mandatory federal penalty for possessing 5 grams of crack cocaine, for a first offense, is 5 years in prison with no parole.



Crack isn't even part of the discussion! whats the point here?? are you getting why even as a "legalize it" advocate, I dismiss this article?

I can see where you're coming from and will agree that it is not the 'best' article from a pro-legalization standpoint.

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July 21st, 2011, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Is it time to legalize?
Quote:
Yes, the drug laws are racially biased, even today. For example, the same amount/weight of powder cocaine and crack cocaine will get 2 completely different penalties with crack being worse. According to statistics, whites are the majority that use powder and blacks are the majority that use crack. Now, does that seem at all fair or balanced? Not IMO.



but therin lies the rube..Crack is cheaper...THATS why it's more dominantly used amonst the poverty levels...once again..the only color involved is green. Cocain is generally used by not only whites, but middle to upper class whites. it's not a racism thing, its a financial thing. to fix that problem is a whole different thread IMO.


July 21st, 2011, 3:31 pm
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