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 Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution 
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Post Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
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Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
by Jonathan Dudley

In the evangelical community, the year 2011 has brought a resurgence of debate over evolution. The current issue of Christianity Today asks if genetic discoveries preclude an historical Adam. While BioLogos, the brainchild of NIH director Francis Collins, is seeking to promote theistic evolution among evangelicals, the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary recently argued that true Christians should believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old.

As someone raised evangelical, I realize anti-evolutionists believe they are defending the Christian tradition. But as a seminary graduate now training to be a medical scientist, I can say that, in reality, they've abandoned it.

In theory, if not always in practice, past Christian theologians valued science out of the belief that God created the world scientists study. Augustine castigated those who made the Bible teach bad science, John Calvin argued that Genesis reflects a commoner's view of the physical world, and the Belgic confession likened scripture and nature to two books written by the same author.

These beliefs encouraged past Christians to accept the best science of their day, and these beliefs persisted even into the evangelical tradition. As Princeton Seminary's Charles Hodge, widely considered the father of modern evangelical theology, put it in 1859: "Nature is as truly a revelation of God as the Bible; and we only interpret the Word of God by the Word of God when we interpret the Bible by science."

In this analysis, Christians must accept sound science, not because they don't believe God created the world, but precisely because they do.

Of course, anti-evolutionists claim their rejection of evolution is not a rejection of science. Phillip Johnson, widely considered the leader of the Intelligent Design movement, states that all he's rejecting is the atheistic lens through which evolutionary scientists view the world. Evolution, he argues, is "based not upon any incontrovertible empirical evidence, but upon a highly philosophical presupposition."

And to a certain extent, this line of argument makes sense. Science is not a neutral enterprise. Prior beliefs undoubtedly influence interpretation. If one believes God created vertebrates with a similar design plan, one can acknowledge their structural similarities without believing in common descent. No amount of radiocarbon dating evidence will convince someone the Earth is 4.5 billion years old if that person believes God created the world to look old, with the appearance of age.

But beyond a certain point, this reasoning breaks down. Because no amount of talk about "worldviews" and "presuppositions" can change a simple fact: creationism has failed to provide an alternative explanation for the vast majority of evidence explained by evolution.

It has failed to explain why birds still carry genes to make teeth, whales to make legs, and humans to make tails.

It has failed to explain why the fossil record proposed by modern scientists can be used to make precise and accurate predictions about the location of transition fossils.

It has failed to explain why the fossil record demonstrates a precise order, with simple organisms in the deepest rocks and more complex ones toward the surface.

It has failed to explain why today's animals live in the same geographical area as fossils of similar species.

It has failed to explain why, if carnivorous dinosaurs lived at the same time as modern animals, we don't find the fossils of modern animals in the stomachs of fossilized dinosaurs.

It has failed to explain the broken genes that litter the DNA of humans and apes but are functional in lower vertebrates.

It has failed to explain how the genetic diversity we observe among humans could have arisen in a few thousand years from two biological ancestors.

Those who believe God created the world scientists study, even while ignoring most of the data compiled by those who study it, might as well rip dozens of pages out of their Bibles. Because if "nature is as truly a revelation of God as the Bible," it's basically the same thing.

Many think the widespread rejection of evolution doesn't really matter. Evolution is about what happened in the past, the argument goes, so rejecting it doesn't have an impact on policies we make today. And aside from school curricula, they may be right.

But the belief that scientists can discover truth, and that, once sufficiently debated, challenged and modified, it should be accepted even if it creates tensions for familiar belief systems, has an obvious impact on decisions that are made everyday. And it is that belief Christians reject when they reject evolution.

In doing so, they've not only led America astray on questions ranging from the value of stem cell research to the etiology of homosexuality to the causes of global warming. They've also abandoned a central commitment of orthodox Christianity.

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June 23rd, 2011, 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
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It has failed to explain why birds still carry genes to make teeth, whales to make legs, and humans to make tails.



Or: Why the heck do I have nipples?? I mean really? other than a lil pinch and tickle, they are Usless, but all males have em. Why?

I find it hard to believe that people in todays day and age DONT buy into at least some form of evolution. It in no way shape or form debunks anything in the christian faith...why are some people so affraid to accept it?

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June 23rd, 2011, 5:47 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
regularjoe12 wrote:
Or: Why the heck do I have nipples??


Easy, cause God grabbed one of Eve's ribs to create Adam so of course we would have female parts. Oh wait, got that story backwards - nix that.

Well maybe since he lived for 930 years, he got sick of playing with Eve's dried up raisins so he needed a set of his own. :lol:

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June 23rd, 2011, 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
Who said that we all deny evolution? I think all species adapt. But I don't blindly accept that we can from apes either. That's what the problem is. They think that if you deny any part of it, you deny the whole thing. Its an all or nothing bit for them and they continually say "Oh you don't believe in evolution" as if saying that we're supposed to agree with only their interpretation of the data says.

As to the genetic diversity... all races of man aren't genetically different as much as chemically. Where they live will force the removal of the need for those chemicals. Melanin for example. Every species of human and animal except spider has it, and that is what determines the color of skin. You want to see how quickly you can see a variance of genetics, just look at your family. Looks, though similar, are different. And while the current family only has 2-4 kids, it wasn't too long ago that all families were 10-20 kids. Much faster way to increase the variance when you have more chances of it varying.

Science is a tool to understanding, but it will never explain everything. Science still hasn't been able to create life in any shape or form. They can clone it, but they haven't been able to create it. Not even on a cellular level. That missing ingredient will always be the thing that these types of arguments lose credibility on.


June 23rd, 2011, 6:00 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
But modern Evolution doesnt theorize us comming from apes though! so thats a moot point. Our ancestors had some commanality with Apes, but we were still a different breed. Which is all the more reason IMO to buy into evolution.

It makes perfect sense to me at least to translate "he bre3athed life into mud and sand " into god summarizing how he made life come to be to a neanderthal. (sorry..but scientificly speaking Moses was as bright as a retarded Mule). NO WAY was moses going to understand the spew of how god told a bunch of single celled organisms to work togethetr to form grander life. That would be like trying to explain advanced phisics to a 2 year old.

Sorry but in my mind, as a Christian, evolution makse perfect sense.

Quote:
Pablo wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
Or: Why the heck do I have nipples??


Easy, cause God grabbed one of Eve's ribs to create Adam so of course we would have female parts. Oh wait, got that story backwards - nix that.

Well maybe since he lived for 930 years, he got sick of playing with Eve's dried up raisins so he needed a set of his own. :lol:


LMAO! But while those pick pockets got away with one of our ribs, what they dont know is they got the crappy one. Enjoy the "floating rib" ya theives! \:D/

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June 23rd, 2011, 6:15 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
Sorry. Christian faith does not require believing in evolution. I refuse to believe in something, that to me, seems preposterous. I am far more inclined to believe the biblical account of creation. And it does not tell me that we came from 2 ameba that crashed together in a pool of slime water. Any "evangelist" that espouses belief in evolution, isn't an evangelist of GOD. Because evangelist of GOD do not teach things they can't find in the bible.


June 23rd, 2011, 8:35 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
ummmm...math aint in the bible...do you dispose math as well?

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June 23rd, 2011, 9:09 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
regularjoe12 wrote:
ummmm...math aint in the bible...do you dispose math as well?


UMMM.

How do you take a census without math? Try reading exodus. They took a census. Counting is the basis for all math. And you know what I mean. If it is a gray area, they better be darn sure they are on solid biblical footing. And simply put, they cannot possibly be on solid biblical footing when they are suggesting that evolution is real. It directly contradicts what the bible teaches in Genesis 1.


June 23rd, 2011, 9:33 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
no. it doesn't. It really doesn't.

and yes they did a consesus..but thats not really teaching math is it.

There is no mention of boyancy. Does that mean you don't believe in boats?
No mention of aviation. aerodynamics. Astral physics. does that mean you don't believe in planes? space?

Fact is you don't want to believe in Evolution because it would mean that the way you interpret genisis would be wrong. There is FAR too much evidence that evolution exists,. we know for a FACT that as a speicies that our skulls have changed shape, namely haveing smaller forheads. We know that we are generally about 2 ft taller than the average huiman 2-3 thousand years ago. Most peoplehave to have their god given wisdom teeth removed because our jawbone no longer grows long enough for them to fit. this is undeniable. as undeniable as boyancy and aerodynamics. It's not the bible im saying is wrong. It's YOUR interpretation of it.

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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
=D>
regularjoe12 wrote:
no. it doesn't. It really doesn't.

and yes they did a consesus..but thats not really teaching math is it.

There is no mention of boyancy. Does that mean you don't believe in boats?
No mention of aviation. aerodynamics. Astral physics. does that mean you don't believe in planes? space?

Fact is you don't want to believe in Evolution because it would mean that the way you interpret genisis would be wrong. There is FAR too much evidence that evolution exists,. we know for a FACT that as a speicies that our skulls have changed shape, namely haveing smaller forheads. We know that we are generally about 2 ft taller than the average huiman 2-3 thousand years ago. Most peoplehave to have their god given wisdom teeth removed because our jawbone no longer grows long enough for them to fit. this is undeniable. as undeniable as boyancy and aerodynamics. It's not the bible im saying is wrong. It's YOUR interpretation of it.

=D>

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June 23rd, 2011, 10:25 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
regularjoe12 wrote:
no. it doesn't. It really doesn't.

and yes they did a consesus..but thats not really teaching math is it.

There is no mention of boyancy. Does that mean you don't believe in boats?
No mention of aviation. aerodynamics. Astral physics. does that mean you don't believe in planes? space?

Fact is you don't want to believe in Evolution because it would mean that the way you interpret genisis would be wrong. There is FAR too much evidence that evolution exists,. we know for a FACT that as a speicies that our skulls have changed shape, namely haveing smaller forheads. We know that we are generally about 2 ft taller than the average huiman 2-3 thousand years ago. Most peoplehave to have their god given wisdom teeth removed because our jawbone no longer grows long enough for them to fit. this is undeniable. as undeniable as boyancy and aerodynamics. It's not the bible im saying is wrong. It's YOUR interpretation of it.


Jesus taught from a boat.
Ezekiel saw the wheel. Where was this wheel? Oh yeah. Up in the sky.
In the beginning, GOD CREATED the HEAVENS.... What's in the HEAVENS? OH yeah. SPACE and other Galaxies/Planetary systems.

No. I don't believe in evolution because it is, IMHO, impossible for everything to come from nothing. Why aren't these big bangs happening still? I do not believe we came from apes, monkeys, donkeys or any other animal you want to insert. If you do. Fine. It's your soul. You work it out with your creator when you see him. But, don't tell me that I am required to believe in evolution even though I am a Christian. The Christian Faith Requires you to believe the BIBLE. That's the FAITH PART. But, as I said, IT's YOUR SOUL. Believe whatever you want. SEE where it gets you with GOD. He is the one you have top impress with your politically correct beliefs, not me.


June 23rd, 2011, 10:36 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
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The Christian Faith Requires you to believe the BIBLE

No sir. MY Christian Faith requires me to believe in Jesus as my lord and Savior, son of God.


Quote:
Jesus taught from a boat.
Ezekiel saw the wheel. Where was this wheel? Oh yeah. Up in the sky.
In the beginning, GOD CREATED the HEAVENS.... What's in the HEAVENS? OH yeah. SPACE and other Galaxies/Planetary systems.


You missed my point entirely....

Quote:
But, don't tell me that I am required to believe in evolution even though I am a Christian


I never said you HAD to believe in anything. But I'm sorry it's incredably close minded of you to dismiss it with THIS MUCH evidence around you.

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June 23rd, 2011, 11:12 pm
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
The Christian Faith Requires you to believe the BIBLE

No sir. MY Christian Faith requires me to believe in Jesus as my lord and Savior, son of God.


Quote:
Jesus taught from a boat.
Ezekiel saw the wheel. Where was this wheel? Oh yeah. Up in the sky.
In the beginning, GOD CREATED the HEAVENS.... What's in the HEAVENS? OH yeah. SPACE and other Galaxies/Planetary systems.


You missed my point entirely....

Quote:
But, don't tell me that I am required to believe in evolution even though I am a Christian


I never said you HAD to believe in anything. But I'm sorry it's incredably close minded of you to dismiss it with THIS MUCH evidence around you.

regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
The Christian Faith Requires you to believe the BIBLE

No sir. MY Christian Faith requires me to believe in Jesus as my lord and Savior, son of God.


Quote:
Jesus taught from a boat.
Ezekiel saw the wheel. Where was this wheel? Oh yeah. Up in the sky.
In the beginning, GOD CREATED the HEAVENS.... What's in the HEAVENS? OH yeah. SPACE and other Galaxies/Planetary systems.


You missed my point entirely....

Quote:
But, don't tell me that I am required to believe in evolution even though I am a Christian


I never said you HAD to believe in anything. But I'm sorry it's incredably close minded of you to dismiss it with THIS MUCH evidence around you.


I did not say that Christian faith required only believing the bible. Of course Christians must believe in Jesus. So, I would rather have a closed mind and keep my brains where they belong than to be open minded and let my brains seep out. LOL. THAT WAS A JOKE. So don't have a cow.

edited to add:

And while you didn't tell me I had to believe in evolution, the article most certainly did.


June 24th, 2011, 12:03 am
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
A few individual skeletons don't mean that all skulls were a particular size. You could find smaller skulls today. We're all different now, so why would all skulls be the same size back then? That's just trying to draw a conclusion to support a belief based on assumptions. Its not a fact.

Mathematics isn't science. Its required in science, but its a knowledge of its own.

The age of the earth has been and will be disputed forever. As long as there are variables such as salt water that would throw off the data of age testing rock, there are possibilities (flood) that can draw theories into question. It makes it an belief that is almost impossible to prove. Personally, I think the earth is a lot older than most believers believe. I believe there was a gap between verse 1 and 2 since the original translation is actually recreated. That would allow for a period where Dinosaurs would roam without interference from man or other animals. The possibility of a war between angels and fallen angels, but no mention of that when creation happened? Lucifer obviously got into the garden, but he was already here. There lies the theory of the earth being millions of years old yet creation still being a possibility.

Aviation, aerodynamics, astral physics... evolution of the mind. Its not the same as evolution of a species.

Again, the issue isn't about whether evolution exists, but does it exist on the scale that the popular view of evolution is. You might say that evolutionists don't believe we came from apes, but whenever the debate comes up, that's what they talk about to try to make those not believing that as crazy.

Nothing that they say is possible or that they have "evidence" of is anything more than circumstantial evidence. You couldn't win a court case with it, let alone a debate. It's a trick question. They bring it up only to try to discredit, not to prove anything. The only proof they're trying to put out there, is that you're wrong to disagree with them. Disagreement is what gets the brain to evolve. If you just believe everything you see or hear and draw conclusions, you're failing to evolve. Ironic.


June 24th, 2011, 1:06 am
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Post Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution
God-damnit.. I was curious about potential health effects of lead fillings, I googled it and this was the first thing I found... Are you fking kidding me.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 239AADhomO


June 24th, 2011, 4:35 am
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