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 A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure........ 
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
How can a civilized species allow this to happen to each other?

To what extent should a civilized species act on behalf of itself? Would violence be appropriate if food wasn't the problem but distribution because of warlords was?

Who makes that call?

Who fights that battle?

What kind of concessions and diplomacy would be needed to ensure that deliveries could be made unhindered for the extent of the crisis?


These are questions that need to be asked, because it's true. The food is there, but it's not being distributed due to warlords. Rival factions that pay their people in khat, a hallucenagenic (sp?) I think it is also called beetlenut.

The US had that problem in 93, although the Marines did okay with the problem, but I don't know if they handled the distribution or just guarded the port. The Army got chewed up a little, (black hawk down). The UN's problem is corruption just as much as Africa's so the problem will not get solved through either. People will still die by the thousands because of said corruption.

There are times when force is necessary, although regretable, and I don't think the UN has the stones or leadership to do it!

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August 9th, 2011, 8:49 am
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
I hate to sound cold, but I have no sympathy for them. Most of their problems are of their own making, so it's not my concern. Until the Somali people are willing to help themselves, why should anyone else? Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. We've poured billions of dollars into that country and they've only wasted it. When will it end and when will they begin to take responsibility for their own actions? I'm tired of giving free handouts to people that have come to expect them.

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August 9th, 2011, 2:57 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
slybri19 wrote:
I hate to sound cold, but I have no sympathy for them. Most of their problems are of their own making, so it's not my concern. Until the Somali people are willing to help themselves, why should anyone else? Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. We've poured billions of dollars into that country and they've only wasted it. When will it end and when will they begin to take responsibility for their own actions? I'm tired of giving free handouts to people that have come to expect them.

How much of those billions have made it to the population? I'm guessing not much, if any. IMO, and I think it was M2K who originally touched on it, but this is basically a result of their political climate. As for them 'helping themselves' while I tend to agree, chance are these peeps don't know any different and they still need to be 'taught how to fish'.

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August 9th, 2011, 3:09 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
Again, sending food isn't enough. The UN needs to help them learn how to do things using common technology and help them overcome the corruption. This isn't like the revolutionary war, these tribes may not have even a single gun. You can't fight back.

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August 9th, 2011, 3:27 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
Wags, if the billions in aid doesn't reach the population, but falls into the hands of corrupt politicians or criminals instead, why should we keep sending it? It isn't going to do any good so why bother? Just saying.

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August 9th, 2011, 8:20 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
We could help the masses by eliminating the corruption.

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August 9th, 2011, 9:18 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
m2karateman wrote:
Exactly WHY does the UN need a branch of armed forces? Ever ask yourself that question?

They have no territory or natural resources to protect. They have no citizens to defend against an invading force.

So why the hell to these egotistical power mongers have a fighting force at their disposal?


Because when we get to the 1 World Government controlled by the UN, they will need them.


August 9th, 2011, 9:41 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
steensn wrote:
We could help the masses by eliminating the corruption.

if we cant do it here...how the heck are we gonna do it there?????

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August 10th, 2011, 2:12 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
regularjoe12 wrote:
steensn wrote:
We could help the masses by eliminating the corruption.

if we cant do it here...how the heck are we gonna do it there?????


Ouch... that is a good gotcha ;)

but in reality... it is a bit different kind of corruption. Here we feed the people so they can make money and steal it. In Africa they steal up front... they haven't been smart enough to create a money factory yet ;)

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August 10th, 2011, 2:16 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
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Clinton: US to give additional $17 million in aid for Horn of Africa nations, including $12 million to help Somalis - Reuters


As usual, we'll just throw money at the problem and expect it to change.... stupidity.


August 11th, 2011, 12:04 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
Whatever happen to the Peace Corps? I remember a number of years ago seeing TV shows showing Corps members teaching the "natives" how to plant crops, dig wells, make sanitation systems, build schools and housing and setup minimal healthcare.

If we had those people guarded by a suitable military presance, the billions of dollars could be used to pay for that help and not given to inept or corrupt governments.

Again it comes down to military on site, not to change the governments but to guard and protect the people that can teach the people to fish. When the is accomplised then the people can fix the government themselves.


August 11th, 2011, 2:41 pm
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
It got too dangerous for tree huggers...

I think the movie Dance with the Devil illustrates the futility and corruption of the UN best, and this revolves around Uganda. The Canadian General in charge of a small detachment of U.N troops begged and pleaded for help, during the tootsie uprising and was ignored by every G7 government, except Belgium who sent a detachment of troops to retreive their citizens and then left everyone else stranded high and dry. Then came back and blaimed the General for not doing anything to protect the Belgian troops who were attacked and killed by the masses. It was criminal what the Clinton administration did, they didn't care, and the only sent a lower ranking official to preside over a ceremony. It was a huge slap in the face!!!

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August 14th, 2011, 10:25 am
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Post Re: A famine in Somalia, and a chronic political failure....
jomo269 wrote:
Whatever happen to the Peace Corps? I remember a number of years ago seeing TV shows showing Corps members teaching the "natives" how to plant crops, dig wells, make sanitation systems, build schools and housing and setup minimal healthcare.

If we had those people guarded by a suitable military presance, the billions of dollars could be used to pay for that help and not given to inept or corrupt governments.

Again it comes down to military on site, not to change the governments but to guard and protect the people that can teach the people to fish. When the is accomplised then the people can fix the government themselves.

The peace corps definitely still exists. I have several friends who are currently or have in the past worked for the peace corps in places like Central & South America, Vanuatu (island in the South Pacific). So it definitely still exists.

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August 14th, 2011, 4:04 pm
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