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 What makes me angry about the Follett thing... 
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Post What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
I didn't know where else to put this, but delete it if you wish.

There are a few things that irk me about Follett. To be clear, I never cared for athletes or movie stars that push god or other agendas. But I did actually like Follett. I was totally able to put the religion thing out of my mind because more than my love for all things rational and plausible in theory, is my love of the Detroit Lions. I saw the tampon video, thought it was funny like most of you probably. I was excited about Mayhew turning a 7th rounder into a nasty starting linebacker that can hit like a freight train.
But after watching his 2 games, it was pretty clear that the guy needed some major work. He looked lost at times, don't deny it. I was watching him, hoping for the "Pain Train." Didn't see it.
Fast-forward to him being injured, then letting the chinadoll slip. Then, he puts out the crazy Satan video (on a side-note, nothing actually sounds crazier to me than most peoples' interpretation of the likenesses of Satan). Even for most recreational Christians, that would sound a bit weird, I would think.
That's when I completely fell off the Follett "Pain Train." Looking back at the tampon video, it wasn't really funny anymore after realizing that all this guy can talk about, aside from the ONE video, is Jesus. I stopped following him on Twitter because it was 1% football, 99% Jesus. And it's been well-established that I don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, so the natural evolution (no pun intended) was indifference to the guy and a question of, "Who did this guy think he was?" 99% Christian, 1% of the guy making the tampon joke in the Target store. I thought it might have been a weird mix; I don't know if I would WANT to give this guy a ride to practice. I won't be picking up a hitchhiking Follett anytime soon.
Sure, the play on the field isn't 100% of why I dislike the guy. Yes, his spouting off about Jesus makes me wish he would shut up. And yes, I think he's a bit slow mentally. Yes, the chinadoll thing was part of it, too. All of the goodwill he had for his attitude and heart has been nullified, to me.
Like I said, it reminds me of the Brandon Inge situation for the Tigers. Fans in this city find an below average player to like and will defend him until they simply can not anymore and be in denial about it the whole time. Well, I don't care for below-average athletes. That's what's wrong with the Detroit teams. Fans will settle for mediocrity.
"Just get to .500," or "Just make the playoffs..." Screw that. I'm not happy with mediocre talent or mediocre teams anymore. I invest my time and money and emotions and I'm a red-blooded American. I want my favorite sports teams to win it all... Every year. I won't tolerate less anymore. Naturally I know the Tigers and Lions can't win it all every year, but Lions fans need to stop accepting mediocrity. I know it's getting better, but I think you'd be a fool to defend Follett. Don't embrace that "lovable loser" attitude. Demand better from your sports teams! If you don't care, then the Fords won't care. Yeah, it's getting better. WCF looks like he might've hired the right guys by accident. But now isn't the time to get complacent. Call it like you see it. Don't get comfortable with 8-8 or 7-9. Demand better players and better results.
With that said, Follett sucked.

If you can't respect my position on it, then tell me what a POS I am for not being in love with the guy. I honestly think the only reason you CAN defend him is because you agree with his religious views. His play wasn't very good. His off-the-field stuff was quite lame, aside from the tampon video, which had become weird, IMO, after seeing all of his other videos were about Christ. I'm not sad to see him go and I don't see why anyone else could be sad to see him go.
But if you want to attack me personally or argue with my specific position on this, do it here. Mods, move or delete at will.

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August 8th, 2011, 1:49 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
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I honestly think the only reason you CAN defend him is because you agree with his religious views


I don't agree with his religious views, I just liked the guy, his hard work, his attitude. I was rooting for the underdog so to speak. I don't share his religious views but I didn't mind him putting them in his video. He made the video and people had a choice to watch. He didn't force anyone so therefore I don't mind him saying what he wants to say. I like the guy and wish his career didn't end in such a way.

Ok...I was bored. I also was planning on looking at the 7th round draft choices and seeing a majority of them out of the league by now. However, I expect to see more out of the league for 2011, what I type is of 2010 to match with what Follett has done.

I do think Follett had some promise to be a backup LB/Special Teamer, and ultimately contribute as a 7th round choice.

After looking at where some of the draft picks I have to change my view that I thought Follett over achieved for his draft status. Most are either out of the NFL or are still on practice squads. Follett did contribute and started games. I would have to say that he over achieved based on what is normal for a 7th round player. However, for those 7th round players that have found some success, it is nominal and is more inline with what Follett has seen.

So I guess it depends on how a person views it...if a person looks at it from the standpoint of all 7th rounds picks, Follett may have overachieved due to him actually starting and making solid contributions to special teams, while most 7th round picks haven't played in a game or are out of the NFL.

If a person views it as, a team is going to select a player thinking they will contribute at some point in their career, and being a sub average starter/special teamer is about as minimal as an impact a player can have and still be a contributer, than he isn't really an over achiever. He is par for the course of what production is expected when being drafted in the 7th round.

Anyway, on to the analysis below (not much analysis, just stating where the players are and what they have done)

There were 47 players taken in the 2009 NFL Draft in the 7th round.

7 210 Atlanta Falcons Walker, VanceVance Walker DT Georgia Tech ACC from Detroit via Dallas [R7 trade 1] Played in 2010 and had 1 start.

7 211 St. Louis Rams Ogbonnaya, ChrisChris Ogbonnaya RB Texas Big 12 Now with the Texans practice squad

7 212 Kansas City Chiefs Williams, JavarrisJavarris Williams RB Tennessee State OVC Practice Squad Seahawks

7 213 Philadelphia Eagles Fanaika, PaulPaul Fanaika G Arizona State Pac-10 from Seattle Practice Squad

7 214 Miami Dolphins Folsom, J. D.J. D. Folsom LB Weber State Big Sky from Cleveland [R7 trade 2] Practice Squad

7 215 Cincinnati Bengals Vakapuna, FuiFui Vakapuna RB BYU MWC Can't find him on a roster


7 216 Carolina Panthers Munnerlyn, CaptainCaptain Munnerlyn CB South Carolina SEC from Oakland
Played 15 games in 2009 and 16 in 2010 and has some decent stats for a 7th rounder. Never watched him play so I don't know how good of a player he is.

7 217 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Biggers, E. J.E. J. Biggers CB Western Michigan MAC from Jacksonville [R7 trade 3]
In 2010 played in 16 games started 6. Got his break with Aquib Talib getting in trouble.

7 218 Green Bay Packers Jones, BradBrad Jones LB Colorado Big 12
Was starting after Kampman left and then got injured.

7 219 San Francisco 49ers Taylor, CurtisCurtis Taylor S LSU SEC
Played 12 games in 2010 and 2009 and had a total of 7 tackles.

7 220 Buffalo Bills Lankster, EllisEllis Lankster CB West Virginia Big East
Has 5 career tackles

7 221 Washington Redskins Williams, EddieEddie Williams TE Idaho WAC from Washington via Minnesota [R7 trade 4]
With Chicago but hasn't played.

7 222 Indianapolis Colts McAfee, PatPat McAfee P West Virginia Big East from New Orleans via Philadelphia Eagles
Starting Punter

7 223 Houston Texans Nolan, TroyTroy Nolan S Arizona State Pac-10
Has 3 INT 1 Sack and 49 tackels. He has contributed.

7 224 San Diego Chargers Byrd, DemetriusDemetrius Byrd WR LSU SEC
Not currently on a roster

7 225 Denver Broncos Schlueter, BlakeBlake Schlueter C TCU MWC
Not on a roster

7 226 Pittsburgh Steelers Shipley, A. Q.A. Q. Shipley C Penn State Big Ten from Tampa Bay [R7 trade 5]
Practice Squad

7 227 Dallas Cowboys Mickens, MikeMike Mickens CB Cincinnati Big East
Not on a roster

7 228 Detroit Lions Murtha, LydonLydon Murtha OT Nebraska Big 12 from New York Jets
Has 4 starts

7 229 Dallas Cowboys Johnson, ManuelManuel Johnson WR Oklahoma Big 12 from Chicago via Tampa Bay and Detroit [R7 trade 6]
Practice squad

7 230 Philadelphia Eagles Fokou, MoiseMoise Fokou LB Maryland ACC
16 games played 11 starts 1 sack 1 FF.

7 231 Minnesota Vikings Sanford, JamarcaJamarca Sanford S Ole Miss SEC
Has 3 career starts but has over 20 games played in 2 years

7 232 New England Patriots Edelman, JulianJulian Edelman WR Kent State MAC from Miami via Jacksonville [R7 trade 7]
Has a few catches and the Pats franchis record for longest punt return

7 233 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Stroughter, SammieSammie Stroughter WR Oregon State Pac-10 from Baltimore [R7 trade 8]
55 career receptions with 1 td and 1 punt return td

7 234 New England Patriots Richard, DarrylDarryl Richard DT Georgia Tech ACC
Practice squad/injured

7 235 Detroit Lions Follett, ZackZack Follett LB California Pac-10 from Atlanta via Denver [R7 trade 9]
31 career tackles (asst count too). Had 21 in 5 games (2 starts) before being hurt. On pace for 70 tackles in a season.

7 236 Indianapolis Colts Thomas, JaimieJaimie Thomas OT Maryland ACC
Practice Squad

7 237 Kansas City Chiefs O'Connell, JakeJake O'Connell TE Miami (OH) MAC from Carolina via Miami [R7 trade 10]
Started 2 games in 2010 and played in 15. Caught 3 receptions but thought to be a blocking specialist

7 238 New York Giants Woodson, StoneyStoney Woodson CB South Carolina SEC
Practice Squad

7 239 Tennessee Titans Durand, RyanRyan Durand G Syracuse Big East
Practice Squad

7 240 Arizona Cardinals Stephens-Howling, LaRodLaRod Stephens-Howling RB Pittsburgh Big East
23 carries in 2010 and 16 receptions. Had 1 rushing TD and a KR TD.

7 241 Pittsburgh Steelers Johnson, DavidDavid Johnson TE Arkansas State Sun Belt
Practice Squad

7* 242 Tennessee Titans Schommer, NickNick Schommer S North Dakota State MVFC
Practice Squad

7* 243 Washington Redskins Mitchell, MarkoMarko Mitchell WR Nevada WAC
In Canadian football league

7* 244 San Francisco 49ers Jean-Francois, RickyRicky Jean-Francois DT LSU SEC
He has played sparingly 12 tackles 1 sack 1 ff

7* 245 Seattle Seahawks Greene, CourtneyCourtney Greene S Rutgers Big East
Played in 9 games starting 0

7* 246 Chicago Bears Louis, LanceLance Louis G San Diego State MWC
Started 4 games

7* 247 Seattle Seahawks Reed, NickNick Reed DE Oregon Pac-10
Injured and released. Some interest but no contract offers

7* 248 Seattle Seahawks Morrah, CameronCameron Morrah TE California Pac-10
3rd string TE. Gets some playing time.

7* 249 Cincinnati Bengals McDonald, ClintonClinton McDonald DE Memphis C-USA
Has 5 rushing TD's and averaging 5.4 ypc.

7* 250 Jacksonville Jaguars Jennings, RashadRashad Jennings RB Liberty Big South
Never played

7* 251 Chicago Bears Kinder, DerekDerek Kinder WR Pittsburgh Big East
Practice squad

7* 252 Cincinnati Bengals Brown, FreddieFreddie Brown WR Utah MWC
Not on a team

7* 253 Jacksonville Jaguars Underwood, TiquanTiquan Underwood WR Rutgers Big East
10 games 8 rec 111 yds in 2010.

7* 254 Arizona Cardinals Canfield, TrevorTrevor Canfield G Cincinnati Big East
Never played a reg season game, now with the Jets

7^ 255 Detroit Lions Gronkowski, DanDan Gronkowski TE Maryland ACC
Started 4 games 8 rec 65 yds in 2010

7^ 256 Kansas City Chiefs Succop, RyanRyan Succop K South Carolina SEC
Starting Kicker

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August 8th, 2011, 5:20 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
So you saw his religious views and it turned you against him... but you don't want us to think you can get over personal beliefs or anything...

Face it... this has nothing to do with the his performance and all to do with his beliefs. Everyone else saw him for what he is, a 7th round pick, who could reach the fans on a personal level, and give them an underdog to root for. You admitted you got excited and fell in the same trap UNTIL you saw some of his beliefs. Look, EVERY NFL team has scrubs that have to perform on special teams, it part of the need. There simply isn't enough talent to fill every roster spot with top talent. Follet would make MANY good teams rosters just because he can fill in as a backup and play very well on special teams full time. Your fake "reasoning" to take your emotional response and make it a "logical" response just makes people who realize this confused and upset.

Simply just stating "I can't stand what he stands for so I won't miss him," would have likely left that whole mess behind us because at least it would have been the truth instead of some made up "he only performed like this" or "he only did that." HE WAS ONLY A 7TH ROUNDER... we all understood that. You let your emotions creep into your self proclaimed logic and reason. This is NOTHING like an Inge, no one is defending Follet. If we could have signed enough LB's that we pushed his talent out the door, people would have been sad but not mad. We all understood his talent level, hoped he could be a Tom Brady on defense, but ultimately put stuff in perspective.

Just be honest, it is easier than making up a lie that doesn't work.

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August 8th, 2011, 9:22 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
steensn wrote:
Face it... this has nothing to do with the his performance and all to do with his beliefs.


I think you are missing the mark steensn. It isn't his beliefs, per se, it is how he is in your face about it. I liked the passion that Zach brought to the field. The fact that he was a 7th round pick and was potentially going to start at LB in addition to be a ST ace made you want to cheer for the guy (besides he was a Lion of course).

I don't care a player is Christian, Muslim, or Atheist - and I don't care if they mention their beliefs - just don't force feed it to us please. The fact that he said something, perhaps true and perhaps take out of context, about your star QB being a "china doll" is only going to make some fans look for a reason not to like you and in this case Zach gave some fans plenty of reason.

Regardless, the guy played with heart and I hope he has a full recovery. Best wishes Follett.

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August 8th, 2011, 9:38 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
OK, fine... the fact he shared his beliefs through the same media outlets that the other videos made us like him and with the same passion he showed us on the field. In either case, it isn't that one was forced to watch any of it... as Sly and Wags tell me... can't I get over it and just use the off button?

Either way, the point is that it wasn't about his performance... it was about his beliefs and the fact he shared them. The fact remains... it isn't about his performance as his performance represents a value above his draft status.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:05 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
steensn wrote:
OK, fine... the fact he shared his beliefs through the same media outlets that the other videos made us like him and with the same passion he showed us on the field. In either case, it isn't that one was forced to watch any of it... as Sly and Wags tell me... can't I get over it and just use the off button?

Either way, the point is that it wasn't about his performance... it was about his beliefs and the fact he shared them. The fact remains... it isn't about his performance as his performance represents a value above his draft status.


agreed and it is interesting how much draft status (and to a lesser degree, contracts) comes into play in our perceived player evaluation.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:23 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
Pablo wrote:
steensn wrote:
Face it... this has nothing to do with the his performance and all to do with his beliefs.


I think you are missing the mark steensn. It isn't his beliefs, per se, it is how he is in your face about it. I liked the passion that Zach brought to the field. The fact that he was a 7th round pick and was potentially going to start at LB in addition to be a ST ace made you want to cheer for the guy (besides he was a Lion of course).

I don't care a player is Christian, Muslim, or Atheist - and I don't care if they mention their beliefs - just don't force feed it to us please. The fact that he said something, perhaps true and perhaps take out of context, about your star QB being a "china doll" is only going to make some fans look for a reason not to like you and in this case Zach gave some fans plenty of reason.

Regardless, the guy played with heart and I hope he has a full recovery. Best wishes Follett.

This, it borders on what some call 'preaching'. We understand your faith and how important it is to you, but please remember there are some that just don't care and don't be offended/put off when they say just that.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:24 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
Pablo wrote:
steensn wrote:
OK, fine... the fact he shared his beliefs through the same media outlets that the other videos made us like him and with the same passion he showed us on the field. In either case, it isn't that one was forced to watch any of it... as Sly and Wags tell me... can't I get over it and just use the off button?

Either way, the point is that it wasn't about his performance... it was about his beliefs and the fact he shared them. The fact remains... it isn't about his performance as his performance represents a value above his draft status.


agreed and it is interesting how much draft status (and to a lesser degree, contracts) comes into play in our perceived player evaluation.


It should be fully focused on contract and draft status. No one can expect Pro Bowl careers from a 7th rounder, heck... one shouldn't expect a decent backup from that position. Follet, minus the injury, was an ok backup and an excellent ST's player. His "antics" created a bit of a buzz around him making some people upset, but a majority of fans started rooting for him. He was someone to like on a team with no hope. He did more than what his draft status should have given us hope for. Anyone who picks a 7th rounder and then gives them the same expectations as a starter has ulterior motives.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:40 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
steensn wrote:
Face it... this has nothing to do with the his performance and all to do with his beliefs.


I think you are missing the mark steensn. It isn't his beliefs, per se, it is how he is in your face about it. I liked the passion that Zach brought to the field. The fact that he was a 7th round pick and was potentially going to start at LB in addition to be a ST ace made you want to cheer for the guy (besides he was a Lion of course).

I don't care a player is Christian, Muslim, or Atheist - and I don't care if they mention their beliefs - just don't force feed it to us please. The fact that he said something, perhaps true and perhaps take out of context, about your star QB being a "china doll" is only going to make some fans look for a reason not to like you and in this case Zach gave some fans plenty of reason.

Regardless, the guy played with heart and I hope he has a full recovery. Best wishes Follett.

This, it borders on what some call 'preaching'. We understand your faith and how important it is to you, but please remember there are some that just don't care and don't be offended/put off when they say just that.


And if that is someones beef... then man up and call it like it is. Issue is that many of the people, like Follett, came to their belief through others "preaching." No one is offended about it, it's not like it is "new." Issue comes when people try to hide it as other nonsense like mineral is.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:42 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
I wonder how many of those fans would have been turned off if his antics were similar but focused on say Islam. Imagine if he had a number of YouTube videos praising Allah and talking about how you should follow the Qur'an and practice your prayers 5 times a day, etc. Imagine him talking about his pilgrimage to Mecca in the offseason, etc.

I think many fans would have a bit of a different take on that. What if he was spouting off on Scientology? Now that would have been fun!

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August 8th, 2011, 10:47 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
steensn wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
steensn wrote:
Face it... this has nothing to do with the his performance and all to do with his beliefs.


I think you are missing the mark steensn. It isn't his beliefs, per se, it is how he is in your face about it. I liked the passion that Zach brought to the field. The fact that he was a 7th round pick and was potentially going to start at LB in addition to be a ST ace made you want to cheer for the guy (besides he was a Lion of course).

I don't care a player is Christian, Muslim, or Atheist - and I don't care if they mention their beliefs - just don't force feed it to us please. The fact that he said something, perhaps true and perhaps take out of context, about your star QB being a "china doll" is only going to make some fans look for a reason not to like you and in this case Zach gave some fans plenty of reason.

Regardless, the guy played with heart and I hope he has a full recovery. Best wishes Follett.

This, it borders on what some call 'preaching'. We understand your faith and how important it is to you, but please remember there are some that just don't care and don't be offended/put off when they say just that.


And if that is someones beef... then man up and call it like it is. Issue is that many of the people, like Follett, came to their belief through others "preaching." No one is offended about it, it's not like it is "new." Issue comes when people try to hide it as other nonsense like mineral is.

No one, eh? Are you sure about that?

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August 8th, 2011, 10:55 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
Pablo wrote:
I wonder how many of those fans would have been turned off if his antics were similar but focused on say Islam. Imagine if he had a number of YouTube videos praising Allah and talking about how you should follow the Qur'an and practice your prayers 5 times a day, etc. Imagine him talking about his pilgrimage to Mecca in the offseason, etc.

I think many fans would have a bit of a different take on that. What if he was spouting off on Scientology? Now that would have been fun!


You are totally correct... but I think most wouldn't be hiding their reaction either. Fans are going to react to that kind of stuff, it is a given, but in either case if they try and hide it in some "he only did this" BS I'd call them out too.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:56 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
TheRealWags wrote:
No one, eh? Are you sure about that?


Ok ok... bit of an overstatement... but it certainly would be less than the mess he got in his other thread. Christian bashing is taken better than bashing a fan favorite who suffered a career ending injury.

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August 8th, 2011, 10:57 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
steensn wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
No one, eh? Are you sure about that?


Ok ok... bit of an overstatement... but it certainly would be less than the mess he got in his other thread. Christian bashing is taken better than bashing a fan favorite who suffered a career ending injury.

Christian bashing?!? Really??!!!?? Are you sure you want to play that card? Seriously? :rolleyes:

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August 8th, 2011, 10:59 am
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Post Re: What makes me angry about the Follett thing...
I actually would... look at the thread talking about Follet and see how MANY sides came out in support of him. Now take the threads regarding taking shots and Christianity and you move some of the Follett supporters to the side against Christianity. Would the discussions be any less heated? Not exactly, but the ratios would shift dramatically.

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August 8th, 2011, 11:01 am
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