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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo and TDJ:

I will inform you a little bit of a story that my wife and I are in the middle of right now, and we still do not understand why. My wife was involved in a MVA where someone was killed. Without going into details, we are still dealing with some legal ramifications on this, and I can't say much more. But know this: 1. I don't know why we are going through this. 2. We did not choose this path for ourselves. 3. We are doing our best to represent our faith and our relationship to Jesus Christ in this very public crisis. 4. I can not explain why we are going through this, but MY duty is to live the example of what Jesus would do in this situation. I've arranged prayer for both families, have prayed for the victims family, the Prosecutor, our lawyer, and any possible person that will be involved. I do know that we have family members who are "atheist" have come to us saying you have me doing something I never thought I would, I'm praying for you, and for myself too.

I can not know or understand the will of God in any circumstance, but I can determine in my heart to live my faith before Him, and anyone watching. Take a look at this thread for example: There is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind what I believe and why. You may not agree with it, you may down right not like it, but its there for all to see. It is my hope that by our interaction you will see that I am not just a bunch of hot air, about what I believe. There is a purpose for everything that we go through, some of it adds experiences to our testimony, some of it is my poor life's choices that also add to my testimony, and some of it is of a much more grand design than I will ever know.

Think of the book of JOB, did he deserve what he received? No, but through it all he refused to curse God and die. He questioned God, and was asked point blank questions by God as a response, but through it all he did not sin. I sincerely hope that your picture of Christianity based upon your sad experiences, are some what enlightened by our conversations, as I have truly enjoyed sharing portions of my life and hearing of yours, and I want to thank you for sharing such a burden of a difficult time you and your wife went through. Thank you for considering me worthy enough to read it!

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 2nd, 2011, 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
TDJ and Pablo:

I woke up this morning with both of your questions still on my mind and I was reminded of a few things that I'd like to share.

First of all, we have to go back, BEFORE the creation story, and remember that God created Lucifer as the captain of his angels. He was the best, brightest, most powerful, until sin was found in him. This lead to a rebellion in heaven, in which Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels were cast out of heaven because of their pride and rebellion.

Now in regards of the creation story:

1. God created man, (Adam and Eve) for the purpose of relationship, and for a relationship to be true and real, you must be willing to part with your beloved. Meaning that having something love you because it doesn't have a choice is not love. So God granted humanity the right of choice, or free will. We make the decision as to whether or not we will love him, and have a relationship. He's willing, and made a way for all humanity, the remaining portion is for us to decide.

2. Lucifier, now satan, could not change or affect the God that created him, so what is it that he can do? He can affect and destroy those who were created in God's image, and bear His likeness; humanity.

3. So now you have a divine chess match that is played out between God and satan, but God has already won the match. However, this particular chess match is such that God nor satan actually move the pawns. The "pawns" or humanity are presented with choices every day, good of bad, and the choice we make leads to the results we must live with. However, there are times where experiences are put before us that we can't explain, may not deserve, but must still live through. How we approach these challenges is also a decision we must make, and I PROMISE you that satan is right there presenting all of the negative press he can create so that we take our focus off of God.

Do you remember the book "Epic, the story God is telling" by John Eldredge? I recommended it some time back, and you were going to put it in your reading list. Did you ever pick it up or get to it? I think you both would be blown away by it, because of the different perspective that it brings to our lives.

Just to give you a brief summary, in Epic, God is described as the story teller. He writes out the story of all 7 billion of our lives, and each of us is given the opportunity to know him. But just as every story has a villian so does ours. Satan doesn't want us to know or love God, so he deceives us, lies to us, and gets us to place blame upon God. It goes on to say that all of our stories are intertwined into a much larger story, that I'll call the book of life. I think a great discredit has happened when we think that upon death we'll stand before Saint Peter and he's checking through a list to see if you made the guest list. Why couldn't each of our lives be a chapter in the over all story? Your life experiences and decisions, both good and bad, add to the flavor of the over all book. If you haven't read it, please pick it up, and if you wish I WILL BUY IT AND SHIP IT TO YOU, no charge or questions needed, my treat.

I hope this enhances what I've been trying to say, and gives you a different way of looking at some things. Have a blessed day, I am praying for you both really hard!

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 3rd, 2011, 8:05 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ - Thank you for sharing; great reads indeed, but did you really ever answer the question?
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Good post. I do have a question for you - do you blame God for the death of your dear friends family?

I know if one survived you would have credited him with a miracle, I'm just curious if you give him equal credit for tragedies as well.

This to me is a key distinction. So many people "give all the glory" for good things to God, but never assign him blame for any bad things. I don't get it.
Seems to me to be a simple, Yes or No. Which is it? Sorry if I missed it though it almost seems as though you're saying that all the bad stuff is Lucifer/Satan's fault.

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November 3rd, 2011, 10:36 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Wags: Thanks for catching that, or calling my attention to it, I thought my explanation was an answer but let me try to clarify it.

If I understand correctly the question is whether or not I would give God credit for the tragedy as much as I would the miracle am I correct?

Unfortunately, I don't know if it's as cut and dry as a yes or no answer. Let me explain:

Yes tragedies happen, we're living through one now, but although I do not understand why we are going through this, I KNOW in my heart that God's intentions for me are good. So whatever instances happen in my life, although tragic, bring about a purpose, regardless of whether or not I understand.

My reference to Job was to show how God allowed satan to put Job to the test, he could do all things but kill Job. Job lost his children, his things, his herds, his health, and was daily encouraged to curse God and die. His friends later turned on him saying that it was HIS fault that this had happened. They accused him of wrong doing because of the nature of the tragedies. But in truth, God allowed satan to sift Job and Job still remained faithful through it all.

I think the question is somewhat loaded, because it asks from the pretence as if we deserve an answer for why these things happen. How can the pot that is created ask the potter why did you make me like this? The pot was made with a purpose in mind, and if that purpose is to be a chamber pot (p1ss catcher) then that's what it's designed for, but if the pot was made to hold flowers, then that's what it's made for.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Each person that draws a breath is born with a purpose, a goal. They may not know it, and probably won't until they seek the one who made them, but that doesn't diminish what they have to do. Does it go undone? Sadly it does as far as many are concerned, but the overall goal will be accomplished and so if person x never comes into a relationship with Jesus Christ, then person y may be asked to conduct that goal. BUT, it will not have the same affect as if person x had done what he/she was called to do.

Now you have to add in a third party that is CONSTANTLY trying to decieve, destroy, interrupt, and malign each human that draws a breath. Whether its done through religion, or lies, hurts, injuries, or insert your own reason here, the fact remains that we have a hated enemy and he does affect us. In our world good and evil are at war, and they will be until the time of judgment arrives, but till then there is still time for people to wake up from the matrix, and see the truth. I think of NEO from the movie of a few years ago. Our reality is based upon what we see or feel, but in truth there is a reality beyond sight and sound and feelings.

God loves humanity, He created us to have a relationship with him, based upon a choice we make, in the initial fall of Adam and Eve, that doomed all of humanity because it severed the relationship that was there. Mankind has tried many ways, methods, works and religions to cross the void, but we can not. So God know this to be the case, provided the sacrifice of himself, to bridge that gap, and so IF we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we cross the bridge. It's just a matter of saying yes I will.

Works will NOT get us there, but making a choice will.

So no, I don't believe God gets the blame( I think this is what's really being asked) for tragedies, but I know that He uses them for a greater purpose. Keep in mind that NOTHING surprises Him, so it's not like x happens and says "OH shoot, I've got to work this out." Quite the contrary, our lives are so intricately intertwined that our stories affect one another. I mean just look at your responses and how some of this thread has spoke to you. I haven't always said or done things right, but I promise you I've been as authentic, and real as I know how. I hope that answers the question, if not, let me know and I will take another crack at it.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 3rd, 2011, 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
Good post. I do have a question for you - do you blame God for the death of your dear friends family?

I know if one survived you would have credited him with a miracle, I'm just curious if you give him equal credit for tragedies as well.


the answer is yes. Just cuz i dont like the bad things that may happen doesn't mean they arn't sometimes neccesary. (for example if I never failed a t anything I would never have learned anything in life.) Adversly though it is important to note that evil deeds are done through an absense of god....not due to him.

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November 3rd, 2011, 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo,

As I was on my way into work this morning, I was giving a lot of consideration to many of our conversations over the past few months and something stood out. When UK Lion asked a question a few weeks back, you kindly informed me that UK actually did stand for United Kingdom, and it was something to do with your "fellow Brits."

1st: I had no idea you originated from England, at least I'm guessing by what I read, and it really is hard to hear the accent in written text! :P

2nd: For all of our many conversations where we have different perspectives on God, I came to understand that we are speaking different languages. From what I gather, you need to see undeniable proof that God exists before you will believe. That is not to say that you don't believe, but that you need more proof. In our conversations, I have tried to illustrate by Scripture, personal experience, and word pictures, that He does in deed exist, and wants you to know him too. Having said that, I realized this morning that the things I speak of, are difficult to understand because they are of a Spiritual nature. And the best example I could think of actually comes from your Native Tongue, if indeed you are British.

As an American, if you were to come to me and ask for a FAG, how am I to know that you want a Cigarette? Or how about you calling me a wanker, which you may or may not have at this point? My point is that there are things in the British Lexicon that are totally not in the American realm of thinking or speaking, and the reverse is true. So how is it, that I as an American can come to know what you are saying? Don't I have to make a decision to learn the British version of English, and all of it's many dialects? I could refuse and continue to exhist in my American English, and we could probably come to some type of understanding fairly quickly because of the similarities, but what if you spoke Swahili, or Afrikaans? We'd be screwed eh?

This is what I have been trying to say all along! I am limited by my ability to describe my personal, Spiritual relationship with God, in such a way that anything I mention seems "Greek" to you. And the reverse is true, any description by which you would try to explain your view point would also cause me to furrow my brow and start drooling.

Trust me when I say this: I have NOT WRITTEN YOU OFF, or anyone else for that matter. If anything my prayer list has lengthened, because I do not know who all has read our conversations, and what affect these things may have had on them. In fact, i don't want to know, because I'm just a man who is trying to show people the Love of Christ by living His example. As I have said many times, I don't want ot burden you with rules, regulations and traditions of man, I want to introduce you to the Man Jesus Christ.

But as I said, in order to understand, and truly grasp the language, you have to make a choice to want to know. I hope this little word picture description will help translate the thoughts in my head and heart, so that you can understand the perspective, and that goes for anyone who reads this, whether it be Wags, UK, LF57, Mineral, Blue, Sly, Aug, anyone....

Be blessed fellas, I am praying for you daily!

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 8th, 2011, 12:47 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I am a Brit, born in Birmingham, but moved to the colonies when I was just 3 so no accent.

I'm fairly agnostic to the concept of God, but I am atheist when it comes to the Biblical God and Jesus. That is just one of the many areas where we are coming at things from different perspectives.

Here is the other thing, I have tried to understand our language. I spoke and studied it for years and eventually discovered what I had thought was the truth couldn't be further from the real truth. It was simply a well told story that unraveled rather quickly, from a truth perspective, once looked at objectively.

Listen, I know you believe your faith to be truth. I have ZERO doubt you feel it in your heart. But with that said, I know if you would have been brought up in another country with another faith, you would have felt that as equally strong. Doesn't make either one the truth no matter what your heart tells you.

I'll pray for you as well my friend, but obviously in a very different sense, that one day you may find all your answers from within rather than relying on perceived outside entities - that said, if it is working for you feel free to continue to use it and cultivate it into even greater power. Regardless of our differences, I enjoy the passion of your Faith.

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November 8th, 2011, 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo:

Don't give up hope my friend, you will see and know what I know soon enough. I am confident that you will come to know the Lord personally, and then you will be able to understand what I've been talking about.

I have some questions concerning the mutual language we "share."

You said you've studied it, but found it to unravel rather quickly, and I'm curious as to how this is true. Enlighten me, and give me an opportunity to see from your perspective.

As to your comment about "if I were born in another country" you are correct, that my faith would be in the religion that I grew up in. However, there are a couple of KEY points that stand in the way of that.

1. The collection of stories that you spoke about were written by 40 different men from 4 different continents, over 1400 years I think it is. The backgrounds are fishermen, doctors, laborers, and so on. So men who didn't have education, to men with education, all were able to compile a "story" that intertwined, and interacted as a whole.

2. I made the choice to continue on with my relationship with Christ. Here is my testimony in short. I grew up in a "Christian" home, although regular church attendance was NOT a mainstay. We did not belong to a church, nor associate with any "religion." In fact, I was brought up to understand that church was wrong, in the sense that it was traditional, binding, and many other things. So here I am living my life, carefree and off I went into the Navy. Now when I got out from under mom and daddy's wing and I discovered wine, women, and song; well let us just say that I've lived EVERY Navy tradition and even created a few. In Feb. of 1993 I was DJing at a local pub in Guantanamo Bay, and I was watching these Marines negotiate which woman they were going to sleep with, and the reverse was true. As I was standing there observing this, and drinking my beer a voice as CLEAR as one human to another said, "You know, if you weren't DJing you'd be right there with them." I turned around and NO ONE was there! I was instantly sick to my stomach, and lost my desire for my beer. I knew it was true, and I was convicted on the spot. The next day I flew home for some long needed leave, and spent the rest of the month with family that I hadn't seen in almost 2 years. While home on leave, I met with a local youth pastor, via my brother, and made a decision, of my own accord, that I wanted to serve the Lord. So I chose to ask Him into my life, as my Savior, accepting His gift of eternal life. When I returned to Gitmo, I began to read the Bible, because I WANTED to get to know HIm better. So why not read the stories about Him, right? Well, it was amazing to me, that the words jumped off the page and spoke specifically into my life. Different occurrences that no one else knew about, and my reactions to them, began to be revealed to me. So as I learned, and read, I began to make different choices, not because I had to but because I wanted to.

Fast forward to 2005, and I've been married for 5 years and have a 1 year old daughter, but I'm the most SELFISH, Self-centered, SOB who is attending church, but am acting totally hypocritical. Then an event happened in my life that devastated my family, humbled me completely, and brought me to my knees. From the shattered pieces of my life, I looked around at all of the devastation I had caused, and knew that I was responsible. So again, I chose to be different. Where my wife and daughter had become subject to my wants, wills, and wishes, I now choose to serve them first. Roughly one year later I was reading a Max Lucado book that opened my eyes to what I had become. Another great author by the way! We as men have a tendency to throw our weight around as husband. Not so much in recent times, but moreso in decades past. "I'm the man of the house, you'll do as I say!" Well, via Max Lucado's book, "Just like Jesus" he expounded on Eph. 5:25. Prior to this little, obscure verse is the well known brow beater that we men use or used to use. Eph. 5:22, "Wives submit yourselves to your husbands....." Well, Max went on to explain that we husbands had been doing it all wrong. Eph. 5:25 says, "Husbands love your wives as Christ does the church, giving Himself up for her, even unto death." What Max shared was that we husbands have a duty to love and serve our wives first. If dishes need to be done and she's overwhelmed, do them. If the kids are driving her crazy, lasso them up and get involved. If the house needs cleaning, clean it. By doing these things, it is a physical demonstration of our love for our spouses and children. Giving them our time and attention. By the way, when we husbands feel romantic, wives have a little more energy when things are done for them, and they don't have to do it all. Needless to say, the change in me, dramatically changed the context of my family. My relationship with both my wife and daughter are TIGHT! I am blessed because of choices I've made. Now fast forward to the last 3 years. I have operated as a "administrative leader" within our fellowship; responsible for the vision, guidance, and leadership of our executive council. The process of leadership has hurt, angered, and grown me all at the same time. But through this all, I have literally seen the Lord grow me, and correct my perspectives along the way. Its visible to those around me, and very real. Am I perfect? Nope, no Christian is, we're just forgiven, and most I know are trying their best to share their faith through love and devotion as Jesus did. So now you have read my testimony, and understand a little of my life's story.

I assure you I've had my burning bush moments, and I treasure them. My hearts desire is that ANYONE who reads this, would be encouraged enough to reach out and ask me questions, or ask for prayer. I don't mind, and I'm willing to do it. Jesus came not to put a load of tradition and rules on the backs of His people, the religious leaders of the day were doing that to the max. Jesus came to meet the needs of His people, whether it was issues of blood, or healing, but most of all He came to bridge the gap between God and mankind, caused by the rebellion of Adam and Eve.

I know there are things that don't make sense, or seem to add up, but that is where faith comes in. For example: There is absolutely NO WAY a bumble bee should fly, but it does. Or let's get closer to home, you make plans for your future, and hopes for your family right? Well that's faith right there, because none of us are guaranteed a next breath, but we take it on faith that it will be there. So although, I am not aware of all the details of what will happen in my life, I know the one who is the author of my life, and His will for me is to bless me, and bring me home to be with Him. As I learn more about him, through my own choice to spend time with him in thought, and time in the Word, and research, I learn more of His character, and find that mine character changes because I want to be different. He doesn't require it, I give it up because I want to.

Sorry for the book, but I thought you needed more details about me, to help you understand a little more. Have a good night! Be blessed, and I am truly blessed for having been able to share these conversations with you and all that choose to read my "novels."

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 9th, 2011, 12:24 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo:

I was chewing on our conversation again and another thought came to mind, as to your comment.

Here is the other thing, I have tried to understand our language. I spoke and studied it for years and eventually discovered what I had thought was the truth couldn't be further from the real truth. It was simply a well told story that unraveled rather quickly, from a truth perspective, once looked at objectively.

Do you remember taking a foreign language in high school? You studied the language, maybe practiced it, took tests on it, but unless you really used the language in its appropriate context, it just didn't work. Nevermind that we teach an American version of foreign languages as compared to their natural use.

The same can be said of the langauge of the heart, or Spiritual, to which I was referring earlier. We can read the Bible, and see all the stories, and even research it, but it will bear no meaning, or carry any weight, until we apply it to our lives. Having said that I felt compelled to offer you an invitation, but it's up to you to RSVP.

What I would like to do is post a prayer in this thread, that you could recite if you wish. They would be my words initially, but I think you'll see there true to form, from what I believe to be your perspective. I may not have said it as exact as you might, but I've tried to put myself in your position, and approach it as if I were you. Now before you dismiss me altogether, let me remind you that as an Atheist, what harm could it do? You don't believe in Jesus, or a Biblical God, so there's no danger right? So if you are willing, I would like to share it with you, and then let the results happen as they will.

I can not save you, nor am I trying to! I am just hoping to lead you to the man who changed my life from what you saw above, to what you know through these chats. I've been very honest, clear, and transparent, because that kind of authenticity is needed in order for trust to be established. Again the choice is yours, and the results are His, so I'm just trying to arrange the meeting.

Heavenly Father,
I don't know you as such, nor do I truly believe in you, but I want to believe! I want to know that there is a God and I'm willing to see that you are real, so I humbly ask that you would help me in my unbelief. I have read and studied, but still do not see you, and sadly I need to see to believe, so would you remove the scales from my eyes, so that I might see. My friend WarEr has been sharing his experiences with you, and he's very sincere, and I too, would like to know you with that same assurance. I don't know if I fully believe, or trust you, but I'm willing to take the first step in faith, and ask that you would come into my life. I want to see you, I want to know you, and I want to experience you for myself, so that I can know beyond any shadow of doubt, will you do that for me? Please show yourself to me, don't let me return to my life without knowing your love for me, and that you do exist! I'm so tired of the uncertainty, so bored with the unknown, please I ask that you would hear my prayer and respond. I offer you what little faith and belief I can muster and ask that you please come and meet me, or I will forever be unknown to you as you are to me. Your word says that you can not lie, and that you are good. Your word also says that you stand at the door and knock, and that if I would only open it, you would come in. So here I am, I am opening the door, and I am asking that you PROVE yourself to me, be true to your word, and come into my life as you said you would. I ask this with all sincerity and all the faith and belief I can muster. Help me to believe, in Jesus name, Amen!

There you go, the ball is in your court, and that goes for anyone who chooses to follow through with that. My hearts deepest desire is that all who care to read the words I've been encouraged to write, and the answers to the questions that I've asked or been asked, will come to see what I see, and know what I know. Again, I will say it for all that would choose to hear, I DO NOT WANT TO BURDEN YOU WITH RELIGION, RULES, and REGULATIONS, I JUST WANT TO INTRODUCE YOU TO A GOD WHO HAS CHANGED MY LIFE, and WANTS TO KNOW YOU BETTER INTIMATELY, RELATIONALLY, IN SPITE OF WHO AND WHAT WE ARE AS MEN.

My prayer is now for any who would read this, not just the few that I've interacted with, so blessings to all, and I will keep praying!

Oh and could my monacre be changed from position coach to team chaplain? Just kidding!!!! :lol:

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 10th, 2011, 9:42 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Heavenly Father,
I don't know you as such, nor do I truly believe in you, but I want to believe!


Here is the thing, I don't want to believe! I have ZERO need, I hope you can understand.

I cannot separate good from bad, it is a two way street. If your God does indeed exist, then allowing things like what happened at Penn State is unacceptable to me. We bag on Jo Pa for having knowledge and doing nothing, we the EXACT same thing can be said of your God.

I want no part of any being that can turn their backs on innocent children. Jo Pa was fired for doing nothing, your God needs to be fired to!!!

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November 10th, 2011, 10:37 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I hear you! I understand your view point, and can understand your perspective. But it leads me to what I said in the other thread you created.

Why is it God get's the blame for the choice of others? The innocent often bear the consequences for the choices we make. If I choose to commit adultery, my wife and family are hurt, because of my choice. Did they deserve it? No! But they still reap the penalty for my choice.

In the case of illness, we as a culture NO LONGER rely on healthy foods, and you can't tell me the preservatives and processed foods we eat don't chemically affect our bodies. If you look that the labels of just about EVERYTHING we consume, you have hydrogenatedwhatchamacallit, polysoyglucanator, and sodiumhydroxide polysorbate, and so on. All of these chemicals get into our systems through what we eat, breathe, and drink, and WILL be passed along to our offspring.

Just because you have two seemingly healthy people who come together doesn't mean that on a molecular level they are compatable to have healthy kids. At best it's Russian Roulette, but on a much larger scale. But that's God's fault too eh?

The problem with humanity is we want our cake, and we want to eat it too. We don't want God in our lives telling us what to do, how to live, telling me my lifestyle or choices are wrong, until we are in the midst of great loss or tragedy and then we reach screaming, "God where are you."

"Humanity needs to get a clue and a grip in that God does NOT bear the blame for this FALLEN WORLD we do. When Lucifer was booted from heaven, he made earth, the sky, the sea, all of it his domain, and he has 98% control over what happens to this place. Now God will allow somethings or most things to happen in order that those who are going through them can be ministered to."

Our choices bear results, good or bad. The choices Joe Pa made although partially responsible were ultimately irresponsible, and it was the victims who bear the impact of the sleazebag who did what he did.

Victims always bear the penalty for the choices of those who usurp their rights. God has been cast out of our schools, our government, our lives, and we then sit back and wonder, why isn't he doing anything. We've told him not to!

Do you want a relational God who offers eternity, and life, and relationship? That's a two way street by the way! Both parties have to be active in a relationship, and communicative too!

Or do we want a Theocracy where God sits on his throne and says here's the rules: Violate those rules, and you die, live by those rules and you can prosper. The Old Testament is filled with this kind of God. He had rules established under the time of the Law. Violation was death, from spilling your seed upon the ground to touching the Ark that was about to tip over. The rules are the rules and there is NO GRAY AREA.

But God, seeing and knowing that man could not redeem himself from the penalty of sin, chose to make a way for us. Jesus, came and bridged that gap for us, through His sacrifice. This ushered in a time of GRACE. So now, anything and everything can happen, because God is operating out of His grace. He has graciously chosen to step away from delivering our due penalties, in order that we might have the opportunity to choose a relationship with Him. But keep in mind that time is rapidly coming to an end, and you will see in your lifetime, a time of judgment.

Nothing in all creation has EVER seen how utterly disastrous a time of judgment will be. The Bible states that EVERYTHING will be made new, that's a new earth, a new heaven, EVERYTHING. By way of reference, UK Lion made a comment to the people of the America's having not known Jesus, yet even the Mayans knew and recorded a potential date of DESTRUCTION of the entire earth. How could they know something like that? Where and why would they even be thinking about something like that?

So, my offer still stands, I'm going to step away for a while, so as not to badger you or offend you in any way. As I said, I hear you, and because I hear you, that is why I wish to back off for a little while.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 10th, 2011, 12:22 pm
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RIP Killer
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
And like I said, God created and banished Lucifer and knew everything that would happen thereafter. In essence, he is more to blame for all the evil in this world than Lucifer himself who was created that way.

You God does sit on a throne demanding to be worshipped while he sits idle letting horrible things happen on this planet every second. Got a sweet deal though, all the praise and none of the blame.

Can you imagine if this boys father walked in on him, saw what was going on in the shower, and simply walked out without doing anything? WELL THIS IS WHAT YOUR FATHER DOES... Yet you make excuses for him and continue to worship him. This is so warped I don't even know where to begin so lets move on....

WarEr4Christ wrote:
But keep in mind that time is rapidly coming to an end, and you will see in your lifetime, a time of judgment.


My lifetime - LOL! Here are but a few predictions about the return of Jesus...

Take Revelation, to quote John quoted Jesus - "Behold, I come quickly." 3:11, 22:7, 12, 20
Also, "Things which must shortly be done" 22:6

Or how bout the book of John?

2:18, 4:3 - John is living in the "the last times."
2:28 - John warns his followers that Jesus is coming soon
3:2 - John expects to live to see the return of Jesus

I'm a little surprised that quickly is over 2,000 years - you?

You can continue to sit in the pumpkin patch like Linus waiting for something that will never happen if you like. I'd prefer to go trick or treating myself!

WarEr4Christ wrote:
By way of reference, UK Lion made a comment to the people of the America's having not known Jesus, yet even the Mayans knew and recorded a potential date of DESTRUCTION of the entire earth. How could they know something like that? Where and why would they even be thinking about something like that?


Some have interpreted the end of their calendar meaning the end of the world. Others, using a little common sense, simply see it for what it is. When yet another false prediction passes (as many others in the past have), we will forget about it and move onto the next one. Why does man live in such a fantasy world?

I have a calendar that sits on my desk, the last date on there is Saturday, 12/31/2011. You can interpret that as the end of the world if you like, I'll simply look at it for what it is and not come up with all these grandiose conclusions from it.

I pray one day you see the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth (as opposed to all this make believe fairy tale stuff), so help you... fill in the blank if you like! :)

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November 10th, 2011, 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
And like I said, God created and banished Lucifer and knew everything that would happen thereafter. In essence, he is more to blame for all the evil in this world than Lucifer himself who was created that way.

You God does sit on a throne demanding to be worshipped while he sits idle letting horrible things happen on this planet every second. Got a sweet deal though, all the praise and none of the blame.

Can you imagine if this boys father walked in on him, saw what was going on in the shower, and simply walked out without doing anything? WELL THIS IS WHAT YOUR FATHER DOES... Yet you make excuses for him and continue to worship him. This is so warped I don't even know where to begin so lets move on....

WarEr4Christ wrote:
But keep in mind that time is rapidly coming to an end, and you will see in your lifetime, a time of judgment.


My lifetime - LOL! Here are but a few predictions about the return of Jesus...

Take Revelation, to quote John quoted Jesus - "Behold, I come quickly." 3:11, 22:7, 12, 20
Also, "Things which must shortly be done" 22:6

Or how bout the book of John?

2:18, 4:3 - John is living in the "the last times."
2:28 - John warns his followers that Jesus is coming soon
3:2 - John expects to live to see the return of Jesus

I'm a little surprised that quickly is over 2,000 years - you?

You can continue to sit in the pumpkin patch like Linus waiting for something that will never happen if you like. I'd prefer to go trick or treating myself!

WarEr4Christ wrote:
By way of reference, UK Lion made a comment to the people of the America's having not known Jesus, yet even the Mayans knew and recorded a potential date of DESTRUCTION of the entire earth. How could they know something like that? Where and why would they even be thinking about something like that?


Some have interpreted the end of their calendar meaning the end of the world. Others, using a little common sense, simply see it for what it is. When yet another false prediction passes (as many others in the past have), we will forget about it and move onto the next one. Why does man live in such a fantasy world?

I have a calendar that sits on my desk, the last date on there is Saturday, 12/31/2011. You can interpret that as the end of the world if you like, I'll simply look at it for what it is and not come up with all these grandiose conclusions from it.

I pray one day you see the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth (as opposed to all this make believe fairy tale stuff), so help you... fill in the blank if you like! :)

Not to totally derail the thread, but just a quick comment on the Mayan calendar. The one that ends on 12/12/2012 is only one of several Mayan calendars. There are others that extend beyond that date. The only reason that one has gained so much notoriety is because some conspiracy/end of days theorists got a hold of it and made a big stink. It's no more significant than the crazy radio preachers end of days predictions.

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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


November 10th, 2011, 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Thanks for the clear up, I'd only ever heard of the one calendar, and thought it suspicious anyway.

Pablo: As for your response, I will step back as I said, I am sensing that any further effort on my part would be getting in the way, and so I'd rather be quiet and obedient, than make a mess by interference. Like I said, I'm not capable of saving anyone, and therefore will not try. I'm just pointing the way to the one I know.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 10th, 2011, 3:33 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Heavenly Father,
I don't know you as such, nor do I truly believe in you, but I want to believe!


Here is the thing, I don't want to believe! I have ZERO need, I hope you can understand.

I cannot separate good from bad, it is a two way street. If your God does indeed exist, then allowing things like what happened at Penn State is unacceptable to me. We bag on Jo Pa for having knowledge and doing nothing, we the EXACT same thing can be said of your God.

I want no part of any being that can turn their backs on innocent children. Jo Pa was fired for doing nothing, your God needs to be fired to!!!



ok so wait..lets pause for a minute and pretend there is a god shall we...you are all kinds of happy that he gives you free will....but when you do something he doesnt like he's supposed to step in and stop it?
thats not exactly free will....

this isnt like having your cake and eating it too. this is more like having your cake, smashing it in someones face, and waiting for the maid to make you another to eat.

Ifyou dont like things that happened at Penn State...DO SOMTHING about it...God gave you that ability...and you dont even have to believe in him to use it.

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November 10th, 2011, 4:47 pm
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