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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
you are assuming that when God parted the red sea he did in the same fashion as a Charelton Heston movie. Say the parting of the sea happened to line up with a huge drought that cause part of the red sea to dry up to the a degree that instead of a river there was more of a swamp...that would be following the rules of physics would it not?

(for the record that is not a scenario i pulled fro my rear. my history proffesor in college swears that a HUGE drought coincides with The Exodus of the Jews. and explains it all perfectly. He also has a very reasonable explaination for the "flood that covered the world" as well that I believe makes a ton of sense.)


If this were true, according to your professor, then that means God drowned the entire Egyptian army, including pharoh, and his horses and chariots in a few inches of water. Hmmm! Imagine that?


What I believe we need to see and understand here is that God is ALL POWERFUL. So if he chooses to author the laws of physics, He: a. must know what He's doing, b. have an overall plan c. knows the cause and affect for all that He does or doesn't do, and d. is able to manipulate laws that we don't even know about, in order for things to work according to a master plan.

Trust me, I know that this is a hard pill to swallow! In fact, I don't really get too involved in the scientific arguments, because that would be like bring a squirt gun to combat. I know my limitations scientifically and try not to venture out so as to make a fool of myself. However, if a question comes to me out of my common sense thinking, I try to present it in such a way that those who are better suited to answer can, and hopefully put some different thought to it.

Here's a stumper for you: what IF everything that we know as mankind is actually based upon a very simple answer! We, being human, may be trying to over think the problem therefore creating hypothesis, and theories to further carry us down the road, because the simple answer is just that, too simple for us to accept?

I ask this with the scripture reference that states the Lord uses the simple things of the world to confound the wise. (Paul Paraphrase there) Jesus said quite clearly that He was the stumbling block, that people would trip all over him because His request is so simple. We as humans want and try to DO something for religion, when He just asks us to accept. We want answers, but we're not willing to sit and listen to the teacher because of what he has to say.

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December 22nd, 2011, 9:36 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
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If this were true, according to your professor, then that means God drowned the entire Egyptian army, including pharoh, and his horses and chariots in a few inches of water. Hmmm! Imagine that?


Ever try to cross across marshy land? imagine how tough that can be as one person. now imagine trying to get an army to cross it. Like I said it makes perfect sense. I dont believe waves crashed in and drown Egypts army. thats pretty sensational and no display of power has been done like that in any other part the bible. I find it hard to believe tha thats really how it all went down. Fact is you and Idon't know. I just find it much eaier to beleive that the story was exarated by the penholders for the sake of recruiting.

Understand that in no way am I trying to understate the vastenss of that overal incodent. But Based on the whole picture, other than the resurection there are no other examples of god doing anything but using the laws of physics to accomplish what he needs. While a man holding a staff and splitting a sea in half makes for a great movie it in no way shape or form agrees with anything else that god does. in my mind that inparticular embellishment can be filed right next to planetary indulgence.

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December 22nd, 2011, 11:54 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
For me the display of power would be in that hundreds of feet of water are stacked up on either side, and you are walking across the sea floor on dry ground. Keep in mind that you had 6 MILLION Jews crossing the sea at that point, plus herds and materials, that takes time. As soon as the last one was over, then God removed His intervention.

Could you imagine being Billy Habib the chariot driver following the orders of akmed your commander and seeing walls of water stacked up on either side? It would make you say what the hay? And then to get part way across only to have the water come back in. Yeah that would stink!

I don't know, and it will be interesting to see how it happened when we get to where we're going, but man what a story eh?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 22nd, 2011, 12:02 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
For me the display of power would be in that hundreds of feet of water are stacked up on either side, and you are walking across the sea floor on dry ground. Keep in mind that you had 6 MILLION Jews crossing the sea at that point, plus herds and materials, that takes time. As soon as the last one was over, then God removed His intervention.

Could you imagine being Billy Habib the chariot driver following the orders of akmed your commander and seeing walls of water stacked up on either side? It would make you say what the hay? And then to get part way across only to have the water come back in. Yeah that would stink!

I don't know, and it will be interesting to see how it happened when we get to where we're going, but man what a story eh?

I can! I've seen the movie, but no where else in the bible has god defied the laws of physics in such a manner. Thats why I call that part a good story but more than likely its a far cry from what actually happened. (let be honest, while the word is the same, the detaikls of MUCH of the old testament have been embelished by man. heck some of the tales in the old testamnet can be traced back to histories older than the Jews. so to me you have to take some of the details with a grain of salt and focus on the moral of the story and the lesson that supposed to be learned.

Now I'm not telling you what to believe...just that this is what I believe.

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December 22nd, 2011, 1:17 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
AU CONTRAIRE, MON AMI!!!!

In the OT story of Joshua fighting the Amelikites I believe it was, the Sun stood still for a period of time, allowing the Hebrews to defeat their enemy. It's the same story where Moses was on the hill, when his arms were raised, Israel were winning, when they fell because of fatigue they started to lose. In the end the brother and sister of Moses brought a stone for him to sit on, and held up his arms.

I remember hearing that there is a period of time "missing" that can not be accounted for. I wish I could remember where I heard it, because it was NOT from a pastor, or preacher.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 22nd, 2011, 2:27 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
For that matter you could even say the fiery furnace that is documented in ancient text, that were KNOWN for their accuracy. The laws of one king could not be over turned. I don't have my Bible handy but I believe it was the Persians or Babylonians. 3 men thrown into a fire so hot that it scorched and killed slaves standing at the entrance to the oven. It even melted the stones, as described in scripture. Yet 3 men go in, and a 4th is seen walking amonst the flames.

Yes Hollywood probably adapted it a little to fit the film, but but they were far more apt to be accurate with their interpretation, instead of the out right angst.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 22nd, 2011, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Ill respond to this later. lil busy today as we'll be closed for 4 days. But im going to warn you now...you will most likely NOT like my answer :wink:

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December 23rd, 2011, 10:40 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
So nice to see Christians battling Christians.

FYI - this just in, even more evidence along the evolutionary development of animals...

Quote:
Fossils hint at evolution of animal kingdom

Washington: Scientists have found fossils that shed light on the evolutionary origin of animals from single-cell ancestors.

The fossils preserve stages in the life cycle of an amoeba-like organism dividing in asexual cycles, first to produce two cells, then four, eight, 16, 32 and so on, ultimately resulting in hundreds of thousands of spore-like cells that were then released to start the cycle over again.

The pattern of cell division is so similar to the early stages of animal, including human, embryology that until now they were thought to represent the embryos of the earliest animals.

The researchers studied the microscopic fossils using high energy X-rays at the Swiss Light Source in Switzerland, revealing the organisation of the cells within their protective cyst walls.

The organisms should not have been fossilized, they were just gooey clusters of cells, but they were buried in sediments rich in phosphate that impregnated the cell walls and turned them to stone.

“We used a particle accelerator called a synchrotron as our X-ray source. It allowed us to make a perfect computer model of the fossil that we could cut up in any way that we wanted, but without damaging the fossil in any way. We would never have been able to study the fossils otherwise!” John Cunningham, the study co-author, said.

This X-ray microscopy revealed that the fossils had features that multicellular embryos do not, and this led the researchers to the conclusion that the fossils were neither animals nor embryos but rather the reproductive spore bodies of single-celled ancestors of animals.

“We were very surprised by our results – we’ve been convinced for so long that these fossils represented the embryos of the earliest animals – much of what has been written about the fossils for the last ten years is flat wrong. Our colleagues are not going to like the result,” Philip Donoghue, said.

The study has been recently reported in Science.

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December 23rd, 2011, 1:01 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Joe: You're not going to upset me, not in the least. I am not asking these questions to try and get you to believe my point of view. You are your own person, and what you believe is what you believe.

Pablo: I can only say that one day you will see, and I hope and PRAY really hard that the Lord will be able to capture your heart before it's too late. Going off of memory, I have not EVER tried to convert you to a religion. I have only tried to introduce you to a man, and if we had the benefit of living closer together, I would have loved to carry this conversation on in person, but it is what it is. You impress me with your devotion to your family, and in an age when everything is disposable, it is a beautiful thing to see a man willing to go such lengths to be a man. All to often we are selfish creatures that don't like how something is going and so trade in what we have for the newer younger model.

I wish you both a very MERRY CHRISTmas, and enjoy the family time. Peace and Chicken Grease

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December 23rd, 2011, 1:50 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Here is a question that speaks to a double standard, or am I wrong?

King Tutenmunh (sp?) of Egypt was known to have fought the first ever recorded battle on earth, by defeating the Canaanites at Megiddo. In fact he was so decisive in his tactics that they still teach them in military colleges.

He went on to record this battle, blow by blow, in writing and it is enscribed on the walls of a temple in Karack, Egypt. So why is it that exploits of an Egyptian can be readily accepted without scrutiny, but yet the history and exploits of King David and many other Scriptures are always questioned?

National Geographic just did a major spread on King David, where they called into question his existance, and exploits. Even the Jews are fighting amongst themselves over what he did, and all.

But yet for any other particular religion outside of Christianity, it's accepted. From my perspective, this leads me to believe that acceptance of Scripture would mean that the particulary nasty bits that calls our disobedience into play, would be a main reason for wanting to dismiss it. If I can ignore what is said, and act as if it doesn't exist, then I am free from the penalty for my disobedience.

Does it seem like a double standard?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 23rd, 2011, 8:50 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Here is a question that speaks to a double standard, or am I wrong?

King Tutenmunh (sp?) of Egypt was known to have fought the first ever recorded battle on earth, by defeating the Canaanites at Megiddo. In fact he was so decisive in his tactics that they still teach them in military colleges.

He went on to record this battle, blow by blow, in writing and it is enscribed on the walls of a temple in Karack, Egypt. So why is it that exploits of an Egyptian can be readily accepted without scrutiny, but yet the history and exploits of King David and many other Scriptures are always questioned?

National Geographic just did a major spread on King David, where they called into question his existance, and exploits. Even the Jews are fighting amongst themselves over what he did, and all.

But yet for any other particular religion outside of Christianity, it's accepted. From my perspective, this leads me to believe that acceptance of Scripture would mean that the particulary nasty bits that calls our disobedience into play, would be a main reason for wanting to dismiss it. If I can ignore what is said, and act as if it doesn't exist, then I am free from the penalty for my disobedience.

Does it seem like a double standard?

I'm not really sure where you get this idea that things outside of Christianity aren't scrutinized. It seems to me that you're only getting your information from sources that make this claim, and you aren't actually seeking any validation of it. If you were really seeking validation, you'd see that there is no basis in the claim that claims for any religion outside of Christianity are accepted. That's simply not true. There are tons of examples of Islamic, Jewish, and many other stories being questioned. I'm not going to cite specific examples. All you have to do is Google any of it and you'll find tons of examples. You yourself even point to the "Jews fighting amongst themselves" about King David. Well, isn't that Jews questioning a Jewish character/story?

As for the specific battle you mentioned, are you insinuating that the validity of this was never questioned or scrutinized? If that is what you're trying to say, you're dead wrong. A simple Google search turns up tons of academic papers analyzing the writings, whether there is any evidence of it, etc. Once again, I get the impression you're taking one source that is making these claims and believing it. My suggestion is to seek out the info yourself and not simply accept claims as truth. In other words, do exactly what you're asking people to do.

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December 26th, 2011, 4:06 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
TDJ,

You are correct in that I haven't done the follow up research, and most of my perspective to the questions posed come from comments within this thread. My time is too precious to be spent chasing rabbits, but I was asking a question based upon the responses I've seen here, and a program I happened to catch on the NG channel.

Christianity happens to be the one religion that I partake in that catches the most heat. As I stated in the question, the authenticity of the Bible has been questioned for it's "truth," meanwhile the "known sciences" make their statements about history, and it's accepted as gospel. My point was, that I was curious as to why the writings on a temple were accepted, but the writings of a book that had over 40 writers, from 4 continents, over 1600 years are doubted.

Again, I have not bothered to chase rabbits, because quite frankly, I'm not really interested in what "the world" has to say. I'm much more focused on the friendships that I have in here, and their perspectives. So my intent has not been to mislead anyone, as much as call a perspective into question, based upon my perspective. Call it a debate if you will, but it seemed worthy to pursue. Maybe not!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 28th, 2011, 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
TDJ,

You are correct in that I haven't done the follow up research, and most of my perspective to the questions posed come from comments within this thread. My time is too precious to be spent chasing rabbits, but I was asking a question based upon the responses I've seen here, and a program I happened to catch on the NG channel.

Christianity happens to be the one religion that I partake in that catches the most heat. As I stated in the question, the authenticity of the Bible has been questioned for it's "truth," meanwhile the "known sciences" make their statements about history, and it's accepted as gospel. My point was, that I was curious as to why the writings on a temple were accepted, but the writings of a book that had over 40 writers, from 4 continents, over 1600 years are doubted.

Again, I have not bothered to chase rabbits, because quite frankly, I'm not really interested in what "the world" has to say. I'm much more focused on the friendships that I have in here, and their perspectives. So my intent has not been to mislead anyone, as much as call a perspective into question, based upon my perspective. Call it a debate if you will, but it seemed worthy to pursue. Maybe not!

The short answer to your questions is that (in general) scientific writings have some physical evidence, or have been examined so much that there is an accepted level of truth. The writings of the bible (for the most part) have zero physical evidence, and the questions that are being asked about it are the same types of questions that have been asked about scientific writings thousands of times over. Nothing that I've ever seen in science is just accepted without any questions being asked. Even the current holy grail of science, Global Warming, is being questioned all over the place.

So, once again, your statements that things are just accepted in the scientific world without being questioned are simply not true.

Do you really think that the writings on that particular battle were never questioned or investigated for their validity? I really don't think you truly believe that.

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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


December 28th, 2011, 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
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Even the current holy grail of science, Global Warming, is being questioned all over the place.



Cough cough HOAX cough cough :wink:

Those of us old enough to remember the "global cooling" in the early 80's rmemeber how Scientists had PROOF that we were about to face an Ice Age. All the Armadillos were migrating south!!! heavens to bettsies!!

The globe warms up...it cools down. we should take care fo the planet and be "green" cuz it's the right thing to do.....the whole global warming thing is an agenda to spread fear and manipulate the masses. nothing more.


(just wanted to prove your point TDJ! )

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December 28th, 2011, 6:14 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
The writings of the bible (for the most part) have zero physical evidence, and the questions that are being asked about it are the same types of questions that have been asked about scientific writings thousands of times over.

Actually this isn't a true statement in its own right. I see the (for the most part) statement, but if you cross reference Biblical history with documentation from the persian empire, and other babylonian writings, the dates and information of the Bible do actually exist. Artaxerxes, Xerxes, Nebuchednezzar and other royal members who did exist, are mentioned in Scripture, and did interact with Biblical Characters kept records that to my understanding have been gone over thoroughly. Cleopatra and the Queen of Sheba are all said to have paid a visit to King Solomon.

I just find it to be rather odd that the Bible is the historical document that specifically lays out a story, a plan, and consequence for the choices of humaninty, as well as an impending date of judgment, but because this conflicts so strongly with the humanist, self-centered, selfish lifestyle of all mankind we do what we can to disprove it, so we don't have to own up to what it shows us.

Another case in point that I find to be very interesting is that many of the agnostics, atheists, and others who generally just don't care have a similar religious back ground. The very religion that removed the Bible from the hands of the common man, is also the same religious system that has loaded it's base down with rules, regulations, do's and don'ts, meanwhile simultaneously removing the relationship.

As i have stated MANY times, God doesn't care about your religion, He cares about your heart. He wants to know you, and you Him. In order to do that, there is but one way, and that's what causes the biggest struggle. The problem with this whole story is that not only do we have the surreal story of many things in Scripture, but we also have an enemy that is doing a VERY good job of sewing deception.

Let me see if I can put this is a better light. Look at the current struggle with the terrorists. They are screaming foul when we "profile" a particular race, because of their known beliefs. Now going back to 9/11 and other such attacks, who was it that attacked us? Billy Bob from broke back Arkansas? Oh wait, how about Ray Ray from South Side Chicago? Better yet, I think it was Jose' from the South Side of Detroit right? Oh, I know who it was, it was John Smith from Elkhart, Indiana. No, it just so happens that one ethnic group which happens to be a part of a much larger religion, is the guilty party. So now they are using our system of government and law to scream foul, saying that we are profiling and that the terrorists don't really exists from within their members. The point is, if an enemy can get us to believe he doesn't exist, then we are open to all sorts of attacks, and surprised when they arrive.

So if you can follow what I'm saying, it's a combined attack against the validity of Scripture, coupled with the complacency of 2000 years, and an enemy that is deceiving the masses with his "I don't exist" mantra, that get's people all riled up.

I mean seriously: Why is it that Christians generate such hate? Tebow takes a knee and that warrants Bill Maher's response about Jesus? Did Tebow hype himself or was it the media? So who warrants the hate? In the worlds natural disasters, who GENERALLY responds with the most aid, and people? Who continues to operate in these same areas when the flash in the pan emergencies have gone? Why is Operation Christmas Child being so opposed at the Air Force academy, when it was a VOLUNTEER program, in a VOLUNTEER MILITARY? For all of the worlds religions, which each of them could openly and without risk of censor start their own winter solstice child program, instead fight the one religion that chooses to bring health care items to children in 3rd and 4th world areas?

I'm just trying to help you see that from my perspective, the Christian side of things catches a lot more flack and I don't understand why?

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December 28th, 2011, 6:28 pm
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