View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently August 20th, 2014, 6:54 am



Reply to topic  [ 599 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 ... 40  Next
 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
Author Message
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11952
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, much appreciated.
A couple follow-up questions, if you will:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Genesis 1:26 - 27, "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, to be LIKE ourselves. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground." So God created man in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Who is this "us" and "ourselves" in the bolded part?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The only way we become "gods" is when we accept the relationship with Jesus, and we become his sons and daughters. That doesn't mean that I become a god in the hollywood sense, with magical powers, it means I become a part of the family, brother to Jesus and so on. It can get deep but I hope that helps a little.
It does help a bit, thanks again.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
That was why yours and Pablo's statements were so hurtful. Neither of you know my life, although Pablo has more access than others. I live to serve, I live to help others, I choose to sacrifice my time, efforts, blood, sweat, tears, and so on for the sake of others, because the Lord has freed me and I choose to use my freedom to help others. So to be called hypocritical really cut, because it wasn't a fair statement.
As I stated in the thread where this occurred:
TheRealWags wrote:
Do what you have to do, but know that my comments were in a general nature, therefore if anyone takes offense to them, then perhaps that person feels some sort of guilt.

Peace brother!
Considering as your were apparently hurt, I can only surmise that you felt some guilt as a result of my statement. I am sorry for the pain you felt, however perhaps there was a purpose behind said pain.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
Don't worry though, I've chosen to forgive you both regardless of whether or not it was offered, because I DEEPLY desire for you to know the Lord as I do. I can't explain why I've come to this position, I just have, and so I choose to be obedient to the mission laid before me, and that is why I carry y'all to the feet. Again, hope that helps.
Well, I guess that makes us even then, huh? :wink:
Seriously though, I DEEPLY desire for everyone to know the power that each has inside them. IMO it seems as though many who follow religious dogmas have a tendency to limit themselves.

Peace, light and love

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 20th, 2012, 4:07 pm
Profile
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
m2karateman wrote:
Science is not an exact science all the time.


No - but that's part of the process that makes it valid ... it is open to changes in explanation, as things are tested and our undertanding of how things work grows greater. Keep in mind I said detail & understanding get greater. What you're doing is trying to take that & make it look the opposite - somehow uncertain. That is completely the opposite of reality. In reality, science's changes over time through testing & independent validation of data/results has make things far more certain.

Hearsay is very weak evidence even first-hand. There is no first hand evidence in the Bible. It is "what somebody translated that somebody wrote (sometimes multiple people across time) about what somebody said that someone else witnessed ... that was reviewed, edited & approved by self-appointed truth-knowers multiple times over several difference centuries". Let's not pretend that would even be considered as evidence in court. That would be considered "having no case at all".


August 20th, 2012, 4:10 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11952
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
m2karateman wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
I realized after posting that it might have come across rather harsh, for this I apologize.

That said and please pardon my ignorance on this, but doesn't all of Christianity and Jewish based (read Old Testament) believe / teach 'No false gods before me (God)'? If so, then please explain where your belief system differs from theirs or any other Christian. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: For the record, I believe we are ALL gods.

No worries Wags. I didn't think your statement was harsh in any regard.

When I said that Billy and W4C and how they believe is different than me, allow me to explain:

I am Christian in the fact that I believe in the God of the Bible. I also believe Christ was his son, an Earthly representation of God's spirit, and love for all mankind.

However, I am not inclined to believe all aspects laid forth in the Bible as being "gospel", for lack of a better word. I believe the Bible to be a very good set of guidelines (New Testament) on how to live a life that the fathers of Christianity would like. I believe that the stories were written for that express purpose. I believe the stories within the Old Testament speak of various things that helped create Christianity, but don't literally believe every single word. However, I also have to question why some books were left out of the Bible, particularly it seems, the ones that saw things from a different perspective than the rest. I know that reasons have been given extensively as to why they were left out, but I am not so quick to accept that reasoning as completely with merit.

I also feel that those who use the Bible as a device of prayer are, at that moment, putting it in place of God, and therefore are committing idolatry. That is my belief, and I don't expect anyone else to share it if they don't wish to. I am also not fond of praying to the cross, saints, using a rosary, or many other things associated with various Christian religions. They are symbols of Christianity, but should not be used as tools of worship.

I also believe God has a bigger propensity for forgiveness than what some Christians believe. I think there is a big difference between questioning His existence, and outright rejecting His existence. God gave us freewill of thought for a reason. Was that part of His plan? I suspect so. I think He wants us to question, so that we do dig deeper for the truth in many different things, not just those regarding religion.

As for the God creating man in His own image, that is really a pretty vague statement, and as such can be taken a number of different ways. Was it in the physical form? Spiritual form? Reason of mind? While God has often been portrayed in various forms of art as an old man, I don't believe that He was ever portrayed that way in the Bible. He always took the form of light, fire or something of a more "natural" appearance.

I believe that the image intended is that mankind has the same traits as Him in the fact that we have a spirit everlasting, we have an advanced capacity for thought and reasoning, and that we have a near limitless capacity for love.
Thank you for clarifying m2k. I should've know from your previous posts.
I do still have many things to work on, on my path towards peace; losing preconceived notions being one of the most difficult, for me.

Peace, light & love

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 20th, 2012, 4:12 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
TheRealWags wrote:

Thank you for clarifying m2k. I should've know from your previous posts.
I do still have many things to work on, on my path towards peace; losing preconceived notions being one of the most difficult, for me.

Peace, light & love


You won't be travelling that path alone. I have much, much work to do myself.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


August 20th, 2012, 5:05 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Wags: thanks for letting me expand on this, and I'll do my best to share what I know, but I must forewarn you that this will get REALLY DEEP, really quickly.

God, in the Christian sense is a TRIUNE God, that means that He is 3 separate people in one entity. I might interject that God is a possible Title rather than person if that makes any sense. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So all three make up God, but each plays His part.

God the Father: the head, or supreme creator who has always been and will always be.

God the Son: He is Jesus, whom all things were created, including all life.

God the Holy Spirit: it was he who moved across the waters and separated the deep in the creation story. Prior to the Book of Acts, Humans had very little understanding of who he was or direct interaction with him. 40 days after the death and resurrection of Christ, the Holy Spirit came and made his home in man.

This is actually a very interesting aspect of the relationship with God through Jesus Christ. When we first "come" to Christ, we must acknowledge that he is the son of God, born of a woman, and by His blood we are free from sin. From there we ask him into our lives, asking that he takes up residence in our heart. In truth, it is the Holy Spirit who then comes and makes his residence in our heart. An easy way to look at the creation story is this:

Prior to the fall of man, Adam and Eve were in perfect union with God, walking and talking with him in the garden of Eden. When the devil came and through deception caused man and woman to break the relationship with God. The penalty for this was death of the relationship, much like adultery does to a marriage. Because of this void, man was now sinful, and sin would be born to all man thereafter, therefore self-perpetuating a void between God and man, that can not be crossed from our side. What was required was a PERFECT sacrifice, one without blemish, or sin. Anyway, in trying to get back on point, the sin factor left us with an empty bank account, but when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our hearts. So then this means our bank account is now filled with the Holy Spirit.

I'm really not doing this the justice that I wanted to by explanation, so let me encourage you to google the 3 part man discription. In the 3 part man discription you have body, soul, and Spirit. body is our flesh, soul is our emotional and thought life, and Spirit, is the eternal. The human Spirit is prone to sin because of the choice of our first parents, it's hereditary. And all who follow after now have a predisposition to sin. Like the son of an alcoholic who may struggle with the same disease because of the disease of his father.

Our flesh and soul can be influenced by our environtment, but our Spirit is eternal as I said. However, because of sin, we have one of two destinations. Hell is really the separation from God the one who created you. Imagine yourself as a child being separated for eternity from the parent that loves you, and you love so much. That's about the best picture I can describe. God doesn't want this to be, but sin has to be accounted for. That is why the blood of Jesus is so potent, and powerful, because it is the filter by which God the Father sees us.

Do you remember the kids game or color blind charts that have something written in one color, but then it's overlayed with the red. It is only when you look at it through red glasses that the two reds cancel each other out, and you can read the "secret" message. The Blood of Christ is the very same for us, it cleanses us of the sin we are born with, and into. Once we establish the relationship with God, we can not be separated from Him, because the Holy Spirit has come into our hearts. Does that make sense? So as I said before, it's not that we become gods, it's that we become part of the family, sons and daughters.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 20th, 2012, 5:13 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
As I thought about the 3 part man that I discussed above, I remembered reading "Victory over the darkness" by Neil Anderson and in this particular book he shares that much of modern psychology, if not all, deals predominantly with the soul area of mankind. They often treat the symptoms but do not get to the core, mainly because that would require a belief in the Spiritual. This in turn goes back to my point that the world, or society, can not, or will not recognize the Spiritual.

I think a better description of this might be if you look at some of the issues as if it were a boil. In a boil you have an infected core, surrounding that is all kinds of infection, and a hard, crusty cap, that weeps when the internal pressure is too much. Do you see the similarities? To treat a boil, the process used to be to lance it, drain away the infection, and remove the core. In psychology, if you can not get to the core of the issue, you only treat the surrounding emotions. What is so beautiful about this is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit, are in the business of treating the wounds of humanity. We the body of Christ are supposed to do the same, but HAVE DONE A POOR JOB OF IT.

Quite frankly, we're all fallen individuals, we sin, we make mistakes, we fail big time, but when we have a relationship with Jesus, he is showing us areas within ourselves, or our thinking that need to change. When we CHOOSE to give those up by purposefully laying them at his feet through prayer, they are removed and His territory within our hearts is enlarged.

I have personally experienced this first hand, and I can only speak from my own experience, so being able to prove to you without "conclusive" evidence is going to be most difficult. All I can say is this is who I was prior to the correction, and this is who I am now. In fact, by way of discussion let me ask Pablo to produce some of the old "posts" by DevilDoc, and let's compare them to WarEr4Christ. Eric, did we not used to internet fight? Did we not used to trade negative comments back and forth? In comparing that to now do we not still stand on opposite sides of the fence in many ways, but we're not attacking each other with venomous statements?

Wags, I am encouraged by your departing tag in that you say peace, light, and love, because Jesus embodies all of those characteristics.

Peace: John 14:26-28
"26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. 28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."


Love: 1 John 4:7-9, "7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him."

This last one has a portion that sounds like something Eric has said before....

Light: John 8: 12-13, "12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”


Wags, let me encourage you to set your sights on Jesus, try Him, seek Him, and see if I'm not correct in sharing the things I've said and experienced. I assure you, that you will come up against opposition even at my suggesting this, but if you can push through it with the utmost of determination, you shall gain the treasure that you seek, but you are going to have to dig for it.

I continue to lift you fellas up in prayer, frok, eric, pablo, wags, augshum, m2k, lf57, sly, regjoe. If your name is not here and you want it to be, drop me a line, after all what's the cost of prayer?

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 21st, 2012, 8:46 am
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11952
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
m2karateman wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Thank you for clarifying m2k. I should've know from your previous posts.
I do still have many things to work on, on my path towards peace; losing preconceived notions being one of the most difficult, for me.

Peace, light & love
You won't be travelling that path alone. I have much, much work to do myself.
As I believe we all do. Please allow me to share a thought on this:
Quote:
Just because something is different than you or believes in the polar opposite as you does not make them evil; look past duality & Love All

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 21st, 2012, 9:39 am
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11952
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ-
First off, thank you for a well thought out response, it is very much appreciated.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Wags, I am encouraged by your departing tag in that you say peace, light, and love, because Jesus embodies all of those characteristics.
Agreed, Jesus was a great teacher, though with respect, Christianity does not have a monopoly on this line of thinking / thought process.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Wags, let me encourage you to set your sights on Jesus, try Him, seek Him, and see if I'm not correct in sharing the things I've said and experienced. I assure you, that you will come up against opposition even at my suggesting this, but if you can push through it with the utmost of determination, you shall gain the treasure that you seek, but you are going to have to dig for it.
You may not remember this, but I was 'born again'...a couple of times actually. The religious dogma you and others subscribe to is not for me. Granted, our belief systems are similar in some respects, but they are vastly different in others.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I continue to lift you fellas up in prayer, frok, eric, pablo, wags, augshum, m2k, lf57, sly, regjoe. If your name is not here and you want it to be, drop me a line, after all what's the cost of prayer?
Again thank you, also know that I too hope for all to see the light and to learn just how special and powerful each of us really are.

Peace

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 21st, 2012, 9:46 am
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3729
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
dang you guys are making me want a hug! lol

wags one of these day's Id really like to discuss YOUR beliefs. you elude to em every now and then but thats as far as you go. One of these days bro....one of these days :wink:

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


August 21st, 2012, 1:35 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11952
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
regularjoe12 wrote:
dang you guys are making me want a hug! lol

wags one of these day's Id really like to discuss YOUR beliefs. you elude to em every now and then but thats as far as you go. One of these days bro....one of these days :wink:
Ask away and I'll answer the best I can (prolly a new thread tho :wink: ).

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


August 21st, 2012, 1:47 pm
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3729
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
TheRealWags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
dang you guys are making me want a hug! lol

wags one of these day's Id really like to discuss YOUR beliefs. you elude to em every now and then but thats as far as you go. One of these days bro....one of these days :wink:
Ask away and I'll answer the best I can (prolly a new thread tho :wink: ).



ill PM ya soon. no sense in makin yer personal buisness everyones buisness.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


August 21st, 2012, 2:47 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Include me on that PM if you would because I'm interested in your beliefs as well.

When you made the comment about having been "born again" twice before, that was new to me, I was not aware. Having said that I was really curious as to the faith background.

I'm not sure how to ask this without sounding confrontational, but the whole process of being Born Again, although it sounds simple, is transformational. By that I mean that the former has passed away... and so on. I have a co-worker who claims to have been born again, but the fruits don't match the tree. What this leads me to believe is that there may be some confusion as to the process or there wasn't a true committment. Anyway, I am not trying to sound judgemental, but I'm curious as to how a decision like this can be gone back on, if that makes sense? Like I said, include me on the message unless you'd like to share here, but that's your call.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


August 21st, 2012, 4:48 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9385
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Well nobody asked me but here is my two cents. Logic dictates to me two possibilities:

1) there is no God! We are all a product of basically a chemical soup accident. While this sounds horrible, if you really think about it each one of us is the Powerball Winner x Infinity. The chances of our exact being ever existing is so remote, it is truly the most precious gift ever.

2) there is a God! But honestly if this is true and he created everything - the universe as we know it and everything beyond our current (and possibly future) knowledge. IMO if this is the case we are no more important than ants to him. There are probably tons of other life forms out there, some smarter some dumber, but the sheer number of suns, planets, life forms, make us of little importance to him as individuals. That doesn't mean he doesn't love us, but quite frankly he has a lot more to deal with than our individual lives.

The whole concept of a Christian God, or one of the many previous incarnations that preceeded this version, with said God so intimately involved in our individual lives seems pretty silly. I see why many humans cling onto such a belief, it seems to give his/her life greater meaning, but I don't buy it.

That's just me. Truth is, whether you are right or wrong if your belief makes you a better person than there is good that comes from it.

Peace out brothers and Wags, your turn...

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


August 21st, 2012, 5:37 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
That's just me. Truth is, whether you are right or wrong if your belief makes you a better person than there is good that comes from it.


This is the most important part of what you said, and something I have been saying all along. Why bash people who follow Christianity, when the founder preached love thy neighbor, don't sit in judgement, etc.

I realize not all who proclaim to be Christians act like it. That's unfortunate. But I believe most believers do try to be good people, and anything that motivates someone to be a better person should be encouraged rather than made fun of.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


August 21st, 2012, 6:29 pm
Profile
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
Well nobody asked me but here is my two cents. Logic dictates to me two possibilities:

1) there is no God! We are all a product of basically a chemical soup accident. While this sounds horrible, if you really think about it each one of us is the Powerball Winner x Infinity. The chances of our exact being ever existing is so remote, it is truly the most precious gift ever.

2) there is a God! But honestly if this is true and he created everything - the universe as we know it and everything beyond our current (and possibly future) knowledge. IMO if this is the case we are no more important than ants to him. There are probably tons of other life forms out there, some smarter some dumber, but the sheer number of suns, planets, life forms, make us of little importance to him as individuals. That doesn't mean he doesn't love us, but quite frankly he has a lot more to deal with than our individual lives.

The whole concept of a Christian God, or one of the many previous incarnations that preceeded this version, with said God so intimately involved in our individual lives seems pretty silly. I see why many humans cling onto such a belief, it seems to give his/her life greater meaning, but I don't buy it.

That's just me. Truth is, whether you are right or wrong if your belief makes you a better person than there is good that comes from it.

Peace out brothers and Wags, your turn...


It's pretty clear, from real math from people that understand math... that our existence is not only not a miracle... but is actually not a surprise at all. We mathmatically EXPECT, given what we know about the universe, that there is life out their because of the sheer volume of opportunities, statistically.

I agree with you that the notion of a personal god that talks to people & is involved in making decisions about everyday lives & events... is unlikely. I just said it in that way, because I don't want to put words in your mouth, Pablo. In my mind, it is absolutely the height of arrogance, preposterous, and self-delusional to believe, think, act, etc. that the creator of the entire universe has a relationship with you and cares about your day to day crap. Seriously.


August 21st, 2012, 10:57 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 599 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 ... 40  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.