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 Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan 
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
steensn wrote:
Energy that give gives you cancer seems like an even worse idea...

Doesn't the sun cause cancer too? Shouldn't we get rid of all sun related products/services/etc?

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September 16th, 2011, 11:10 am
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
According to one study, wind farms are responsible for an increase in heart disease, migraine, panic attacks and other health problems.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 66254.html


September 16th, 2011, 11:18 am
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
TheRealWags wrote:
steensn wrote:
Energy that give gives you cancer seems like an even worse idea...

Doesn't the sun cause cancer too? Shouldn't we get rid of all sun related products/services/etc?


You know how dumb that analogy is right?

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September 16th, 2011, 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
njroar wrote:
According to one study, wind farms are responsible for an increase in heart disease, migraine, panic attacks and other health problems.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 66254.html


I say since this is so clear a hot topic, why not do a REAL controlled study on this like real scientist? You have the bulk of real scientist/medical community saying this is nonsense and a few standing firm on what they think their data is showing.

I'm open for a REAL holistic study to be done. Why not take a couple million from the wind research money and build small places for people to live certain distances from a large wind park (right in the middle, near the border, and x miles away). Record sound data both ultra sonic and super low frequency over a 5 year period and do a real study on the effects long term. You can then correlate the data collected from turbine operation, record how they feel when the turbines are in low wind season and high wind season. Chart it over time and get a real answer...

Instead, why is everyone so afraid of real science here? Why is it that instead the author of this has to compare the wind industry to the tobacco industry inducing fear through ad hominem attacks? Why not stand behind your research instead of muddying the waters?

My biggest beef with this nonsense is that it never stays about the research or data, it always get's personal. How can I take her seriously when she is going to bin everyone who disagrees with her as biased and evil? It's crap... it hurts her probably well thought out and executed study she did to drop to that level.

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September 16th, 2011, 12:27 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
Like i've said previously, I put absolutely no faith in one study, or studies that put their eggs in one basket using the same data set that the original study used, because under similar circumstances, you're always going to get the same results. The problem is that in life, there are never the same circumstances that most of these studies put out there.

Your idea wouldn't work, because science won't put people at danger to test a theory. Its why 2nd hand smoking studies are on both sides of the spectrum, because they won't test it on people. The russians did, and thats why I have a little more faith in those tests than the ones from the states.

And the biggest problem with scientific studies is that they're constantly telling us something that contradicts itself. Butter is good for you. Butter is bad for you. Being active in the sun will lead to a more productive life. Being active in the sun will lead to cancer.

Another problem is different people will react differently to the same thing. You, working in the wind industry, obviously never experienced any of the problems this study showed, yet someone else will. Someone can spend every day out in the sun and not get skin cancer and another person can get it by spending 5 minutes in the sun. And because every study will only ever use a sample instead of a population to study something, it will never be 100% positive result. And you can't just throw out something because it might randomly hurt someone, because EVERYTHING is going to be harmful to a portion of the population.


September 16th, 2011, 12:40 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
steensn wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
steensn wrote:
Energy that give gives you cancer seems like an even worse idea...

Doesn't the sun cause cancer too? Shouldn't we get rid of all sun related products/services/etc?


You know how dumb that analogy is right?

All I'm asking for is to treat ALL cancer causing agents the same :wink:
:alien2: :nerd: :ninja:

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September 16th, 2011, 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
TheRealWags wrote:
All I'm asking for is to treat ALL cancer causing agents the same :wink:
:alien2: :nerd: :ninja:


It's dumb because you know they are not all in the same CONTEXT. To trivialize the fact that we produce one and the other one is natural is silly and you know it. If people want to be silly, be silly, but I will point out the nonsense regarding blindly treating everything the same.

Cigarette smoke is unnessasary and is the root cause of 1 in 10 deaths worldwide. If people CHOOSE to smoke, they know the risk and they take that risk on. Someone else shouldn't make the choice for you to have that negative impact on your life unless there is profound impact to the country to do so.

You can make your own choices in life to smoke, just don't force me to.

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September 16th, 2011, 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
steensn wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
All I'm asking for is to treat ALL cancer causing agents the same :wink:
:alien2: :nerd: :ninja:


It's dumb because you know they are not all in the same CONTEXT. To trivialize the fact that we produce one and the other one is natural is silly and you know it. If people want to be silly, be silly, but I will point out the nonsense regarding blindly treating everything the same.

Cigarette smoke is unnessasary and is the root cause of 1 in 10 deaths worldwide. If people CHOOSE to smoke, they know the risk and they take that risk on. Someone else shouldn't make the choice for you to have that negative impact on your life unless there is profound impact to the country to do so.

You can make your own choices in life to smoke, just don't force me to.

And you can make your own choices in like to NOT smoke, just don't anyone else NOT to.
See, it goes both ways :wink:

But you do bring up a very good point, I wonder how the concentrated heat and reflection of the sun coming off the solar array affects not only the environment, but anyone that might happen to look in their direction. :-k

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September 16th, 2011, 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
TheRealWags wrote:
And you can make your own choices in like to NOT smoke, just don't anyone else NOT to.
See, it goes both ways :wink:


That was MY point above when you guys chimed in ans started this "nanny state" bs and "taking rights away." So now you are saying you get the trade-off?

TheRealWags wrote:
But you do bring up a very good point, I wonder how the concentrated heat and reflection of the sun coming off the solar array affects not only the environment, but anyone that might happen to look in their direction. :-k


If there is an overwhelming responce that there might be an issue for that likely there will be research to look into it. Funny once it is done, let's chat. But do date your little snip on this doesn't compare to the troves of data supporting the effects of second hand smoke in and OUT doors. We are not talking about might and could haves, we are talking factual real life proven stuff here. Save the nonsense references for something substantial at least.

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September 16th, 2011, 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
steensn wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
steensn wrote:
Why couldn't they invest in a solar company that is doing a fantastic job and making money? Why do we need more startups?


The fact is, ZERO of these solar companies are "doing a fantastic job and making money." The most prominent factory that produces the majority of the solar panels used operates on coal fired energy. That's just ridiculous... "You buy our product, but we won't use it..." Nice slogan...


Wow wjb, you are WAY smarter that that completely stupid argument you just made. What a joke... it shows just how little you'll think about things before you rip on new energy sources.

First, First Solas makes a profit year after year and is considered one of the fastest growing tech companys over the past few years. Again, any company can fail in the best of industries. The fact that the top suppliers of solar are making money and growing tells us something much different than the BS you are spewing.

Second, they build a plant and use the power off the grid just like every other company in the world. Using your logic, we should mock automobiles manufacturers for using horses and buggy's as well as trains to move their product around. We should make fun of cumputer manufacturers who used machines with transistors to make diodes based machines. This honestly is one the most ignorant things you've said here (and I think either you or sly even said the same nonsense before...). Solar manufacturuers don't make and sell power, utilities do. They produce products that investors buy to make power and sell to utilities that then sell it to the consumer.

You seriously need to think before you make these idiotic claims... they are just plain stupid...


What a joke Steen...

These guys make solar panels to create energy, and don't even use their own product! Why? Because it's CHEAPER to use coal fired energy. Also, these companies wouldn't exist without government support. They make a product that can and does get businesses and homes OFF of "the grid" but they themselves choose to remain on it. That's ridiculous. There was nothing "idiotic" about my claim. You've certainly gotten good at calling people's arguments stupid lately...


September 18th, 2011, 3:49 am
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
Sorry, WJB, you are being an idiot this time. Worst argument ever... completely asinine.

Again, you say they aren't doing fine yet they turn a profit. Another example of ignoring the DATA to make some asinine comment that is completely ignorant. Typical muddying the waters because you can't make a valid point.

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September 18th, 2011, 10:19 am
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
steensn wrote:
Sorry, WJB, you are being an idiot this time. Worst argument ever... completely asinine.

Again, you say they aren't doing fine yet they turn a profit. Another example of ignoring the DATA to make some asinine comment that is completely ignorant. Typical muddying the waters because you can't make a valid point.


I think it's hilarious that "Mr. Open-minded" has become the board "know-it-all"... It's not a ridiculous argument in the least to say that tax credits and government subsidies are the ONLY reason that solar companies exist, nor is it "ridiculous" to point out that they don't even use their own technology, because it is not economically viable...


September 19th, 2011, 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
wjb, why are you all the sudden being a jerk? If you would stop acting like a jackle on this, move the argument to attacking me personally, and focus on the responce to the statements I addressed that you made you would maybe possible make a point worht listening to.

You are spouting off "they don't even use their own technology" when you haven't even taken the time to figure out whether or not they manufacture in a location good for solar, whether or not their business is to generate power or to produce power plants, etc. You are pointing out nonsense, then throwing in other crap to justify the stupid comments I am addressing. Don't distract from what I pointed out with something I didn't... get back to the nonsense argument that they "don't use energy from the thing they make" ignorant argument.

Look I am going to pointout dumb points and I am going to point out good ones. If you guys want to continue to make "general statements" that "could be true" so I should somehow "let it be so I don't look like a know it all" so be it. But I am not going to not respond so you guys can take the easy out of "well he always has to have the last word" or by making this nonsensical remark of being "mr open minded" and a "know it all." I love it when people jump that level because it shows just how little they know on the subject and how backed into a corner they are.

You want to ding a company for not using their own product yet THEY ARE NOT THE CONSUMERS OF THEIR OWN PRODUCT. If they produce utility scale products THEY ARE NOT THE CUSTOMERS OF THEIR OWN PRODUCT. You didn't even take the time to think of those questions...

But to make it worse... you made the ignorant claim... without even taking one second to actually FACTUALLY back up your claim! You didn't seach for one second to even take a peak... and guess what... First Solar has a 2.3 MW rooftop setup on their Perrysburg plant in Ohio...

http://www.firstsolar.com/Downloads/pdf ... PBG_NA.pdf

What is on top of their German plant... 1.3 MW's

http://www.firstsolar.com/Downloads/pdf ... FFO_NA.pdf


Why do you continually make it about me when you make FALSE statements again... and again... and again... in almost every topic regarding energy or OSU? I really don't get it... it seems like a complete waste to fit so hard to be wrong so often. What are you really against here? Being right? Because it certainly doesn't seem to make sense any other way.

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September 19th, 2011, 6:23 pm
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
I actually agree with steensn that how these green companies obtain their energy has absolutely nothing to do with anything.. They don't determine the power grid that they're hooked up to, so it's a pointless argument. Sorry, wjb.

However, I would like steensn to name one solar or wind company that has turned a profit without any government assistance. Just one. That's all I ask. Until he is able to provide that, I'll stand by my claim that renewable energy isn't sustainable without government support.

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September 21st, 2011, 1:31 am
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Post Re: Report: White House tried to rush Solyndra loan
To clarify, once steensn states a wind or solar power company that didn't receive government assistance and made a profit, I'll find out otherwise and post:

EPIC FAIL!!!!

I can play this game all day long (or for years if needed). :D

Gimme your best shot, wind whore! :D

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September 21st, 2011, 2:22 am
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