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 Occupy Wall Street 
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Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
NY Post wrote:
Occupy Wall Streeters plan to shut down stock exchange, swarm subways
By SALLY GOLDENBERG, LARRY CELONA and BOB FREDERICKS

Last Updated: 9:21 AM, November 17, 2011

Posted: 1:03 AM, November 17, 2011

The Occupy Wall Streeters are about to create chaos for 99 percent of the city.

In one of the largest demonstrations in recent city history, the anti-greed rabble plans to swarm the subways, take over the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down the stock exchange today.

Tens of thousands of protesters — fresh off their eviction from Zuccotti Park — are expected to kick off the day of chaos around 7 a.m. by throwing a massive block party on Wall Street aimed at disrupting the trading day.

“We will shut down Wall Street,” a post on the movement’s Facebook page said. “We will remind the 1% and their representative Michael Bloomberg that you cannot stop an idea whose time has come!”

The NYPD is preparing for all-out war — adding an extra 1,000 cops per shift.

The mobilization is on par with the 2004 Republican National Convention — although today’s protests marking the two-month mark of the movement are expected to be far more widespread.

Demonstrators will fan out to transit hubs in all five boroughs at around 3 p.m. — and plan to flood the subways and Staten Island Ferry just in time for the evening commute.

The protesters will ride the rails using their “human microphone” to tell hard-luck stories, and then emerge at Foley Square for a rally and march across the Brooklyn Bridge.

Their last organized hike across the span resulted in more than 700 arrests on Oct. 1.

Organizers said they were energized by Bloomberg’s decision to clean out the squalid tent city at Zuccotti Park Tuesday, resulting in about 230 arrests.

One war-mongering protester passed out fliers at the park early yesterday detailing how to make Molotov cocktails — and made verbal threats against the NYPD.

“The pigs should know that when they use violence, they will be the target of violence,” the bearded madman warned.

Another demonstrator, Nkrumah Tinsley, 29, was charged yesterday with making a terroristic threat after allegedly threatening to hurl the explosives at Macy’s during today’s citywide action.

Deputy Mayor Cas Holloway said all city agencies are on notice.

OWS organizers were gearing up for a confrontation with the NYPD.

“I think it is very difficult to do a day of action and not expect some sort of reaction from the [authorities],” spokesman Ed Needham told Reuters.

One protester, who called herself Miss Grim, said, “You f--k with us, we multiply. Wait till you see what happens.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/day_ ... z1dytjL7UY


I should add that their attempt to shut down Wall Street was an epic failure. The opening bell went off at 9:30 as scheduled.

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November 17th, 2011, 12:37 pm
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Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Another one bites the dust:
CBS DFW wrote:
City Evicts Occupy Dallas From Encampment Near City Hall
By Matt Goodman and Jay Gormley, CBSDFW.COM
November 17, 2011 6:34 AM

DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – The city severed its contract with Occupy Dallas protesters late Wednesday night, permitting dozens of police officers, in riot gear, to clear the encampment and arrest anyone who refused to leave after 1 a.m.

Some 18 protesters were arrested and taken away in police vans. At least seven people a the camp were homeless, so Dallas police assisted them with obtaining shelter.

City spokesman Frank Librio said, “For the safety of each individual at the encampment, the police and members of the public, it was determined to terminate the agreement and disband the encampment.”

The raid took about 45 minutes. The violent clashes between Occupy protesters and police in other cities were not duplicated in Dallas.

Just after rush hour Thursday morning, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings attended a homeless awareness breakfast at the new Omni Convention Center Hotel. When asked about the Occupy eviction he said, “We’ve supported the protesters rights for freedom of speech and they are more than welcome to make sure that they exercise that right, on public property. We cheer them on to make sure they have that right, but they’re not gonna be able to camp out.”

The City of Dallas issued a lengthy official statement. The city listed several reasons for the eviction, including – the continued violation of an agreement between the City of Dallas and Occupy Dallas legal representatives, criminal activity at the camp, trash buildup, inadequate sanitary conditions and “increasing dissension and strife” among Occupy Dallas participants.

The terms of the agreement said protesters were allowed to stay at the chosen encampment site as long as they kept the area clean and obeyed the law.


http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/11/17/city-evicts-occupy-dallas-from-encampment-near-city-hall/

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November 17th, 2011, 12:41 pm
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Said memo referenced above:
Quote:
Attack of American Free Enterprise System

DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION

In this 1971 memo to Eugene Sydnor at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, lawyer Lewis Franklin Powell Jr. calls for business to play a more activist role in American politics. The memo was written two months before President Nixon nominated him to the Supreme Court. The memo is credited with inspiring the founding of many conservative think tanks, including the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute and the Manhattan Institute.

TRANSCRIPT:

Confidential Memorandum:
Attack of American Free Enterprise System
Date: August 23, 1971
T0: Mr. Eugene B. Sydnor, Jr., Chairman, Education Committee, U.S. Chamber of Commerce
From: Lewis F. Powell, Jr.

This memorandum is submitted at your request as a basis for the discussion on August 24 with Mr. Booth (executive vice president) and others at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The purpose is to identify the problem, and suggest possible avenues of action for further consideration.

Dimensions of the Attack
No thoughtful person can question that the American economic system is under broad attack. 1 This varies in scope, intensity, in the techniques employed, and in the level of visibility.

There always have been some who opposed the American system, and preferred socialism or some form of statism (communism or fascism). Also, there always have been critics of the system, whose criticism has been wholesome and constructive so long as the objective was to improve rather than to subvert or destroy.

But what now concerns us is quite new in the history of America. We are not dealing with sporadic or isolated attacks from a relatively few extremists or even from the minority socialist cadre. Rather, the assault on the enterprise system is broadly based and consistently pursued. It is gaining momentum and converts.

Sources of the Attack
The sources are varied and diffused. They include, not unexpectedly, the Communists, New Leftists and other revolutionaries who would destroy the entire system, both political and economic. These extremists of the left are far more numerous, better financed, and increasingly are more welcomed and encouraged by other elements of society, than ever before in our history. But they remain a small minority, and are not yet the principal cause for concern.

The most disquieting voices joining the chorus of criticism come from perfectly respectable elements of society: from the college campus, the pulpit, the media, the intellectual and literary journals, the arts and sciences, and from politicians. In most of these groups the movement against the system is participated in only by minorities. Yet, these often are the most articulate, the most vocal, the most prolific in their writing and speaking.

Moreover, much of the media-for varying motives and in varying degrees-either voluntarily accords unique publicity to these "attackers," or at least allows them to exploit the media for their purposes. This is especially true of television, which now plays such a predominant role in shaping the thinking, attitudes and emotions of our people.

One of the bewildering paradoxes of our time is the extent to which the enterprise system tolerates, if not participates in, its own destruction.

The campuses from which much of the criticism emanates are supported by (i) tax funds generated largely from American business, and (ii) contributions from capital funds controlled or generated by American business. The boards of trustees of our universities overwhelmingly are composed of men and women who are leaders in the system.

Most of the media, including the national TV systems, are owned and theoretically controlled by corporations which depend upon profits, and the enterprise system to survive.

Tone of the Attack
This memorandum is not the place to document in detail the tone, character, or intensity of the attack. The following quotations will suffice to give one a general idea:

William Kunstler, warmly welcomed on campuses and listed in a recent student poll as the "American lawyer most admired," incites audiences as follows:
"You must learn to fight in the streets, to revolt, to shoot guns. We will learn to do all of the things that property owners fear." 2 The New Leftists who heed Kunstler's advice increasingly are beginning to act -- not just against military recruiting offices and manufacturers of munitions, but against a variety of businesses: "Since February, 1970, branches (of Bank of America) have been attacked 39 times, 22 times with explosive devices and 17 times with fire bombs or by arsonists." 3 Although New Leftist spokesmen are succeeding in radicalizing thousands of the young, the greater cause for concern is the hostility of respectable liberals and social reformers. It is the sum total of their views and influence which could indeed fatally weaken or destroy the system.

A chilling description of what is being taught on many of our campuses was written by Stewart Alsop:

"Yale, like every other major college, is graduating scores of bright young men who are practitioners of 'the politics of despair.' These young men despise the American political and economic system . . . (their) minds seem to be wholly closed. They live, not by rational discussion, but by mindless slogans." 4 A recent poll of students on 12 representative campuses reported that: "Almost half the students favored socialization of basic U.S. industries." 5

A visiting professor from England at Rockford College gave a series of lectures entitled "The Ideological War Against Western Society," in which he documents the extent to which members of the intellectual community are waging ideological warfare against the enterprise system and the values of western society. In a foreword to these lectures, famed Dr. Milton Friedman of Chicago warned: "It (is) crystal clear that the foundations of our free society are under wide-ranging and powerful attack -- not by Communist or any other conspiracy but by misguided individuals parroting one another and unwittingly serving ends they would never intentionally promote." 6

Perhaps the single most effective antagonist of American business is Ralph Nader, who -- thanks largely to the media -- has become a legend in his own time and an idol of millions of Americans. A recent article in Fortune speaks of Nader as follows:
"The passion that rules in him -- and he is a passionate man -- is aimed at smashing utterly the target of his hatred, which is corporate power. He thinks, and says quite bluntly, that a great many corporate executives belong in prison -- for defrauding the consumer with shoddy merchandise, poisoning the food supply with chemical additives, and willfully manufacturing unsafe products that will maim or kill the buyer. He emphasizes that he is not talking just about 'fly-by-night hucksters' but the top management of blue chip business." 7

A frontal assault was made on our government, our system of justice, and the free enterprise system by Yale Professor Charles Reich in his widely publicized book: "The Greening of America," published last winter.

The foregoing references illustrate the broad, shotgun attack on the system itself. There are countless examples of rifle shots which undermine confidence and confuse the public. Favorite current targets are proposals for tax incentives through changes in depreciation rates and investment credits. These are usually described in the media as "tax breaks," "loop holes" or "tax benefits" for the benefit of business. * As viewed by a columnist in the Post, such tax measures would benefit "only the rich, the owners of big companies." 8

It is dismaying that many politicians make the same argument that tax measures of this kind benefit only "business," without benefit to "the poor." The fact that this is either political demagoguery or economic illiteracy is of slight comfort. This setting of the "rich" against the "poor," of business against the people, is the cheapest and most dangerous kind of politics.

The Apathy and Default of Business
What has been the response of business to this massive assault upon its fundamental economics, upon its philosophy, upon its right to continue to manage its own affairs, and indeed upon its integrity?

The painfully sad truth is that business, including the boards of directors' and the top executives of corporations great and small and business organizations at all levels, often have responded -- if at all -- by appeasement, ineptitude and ignoring the problem. There are, of course, many exceptions to this sweeping generalization. But the net effect of such response as has been made is scarcely visible.

In all fairness, it must be recognized that businessmen have not been trained or equipped to conduct guerrilla warfare with those who propagandize against the system, seeking insidiously and constantly to sabotage it. The traditional role of business executives has been to manage, to produce, to sell, to create jobs, to make profits, to improve the standard of living, to be community leaders, to serve on charitable and educational boards, and generally to be good citizens. They have performed these tasks very well indeed.

But they have shown little stomach for hard-nose contest with their critics, and little skill in effective intellectual and philosophical debate.

A column recently carried by the Wall Street Journal was entitled: "Memo to GM: Why Not Fight Back?" 9 Although addressed to GM by name, the article was a warning to all American business. Columnist St. John said:

"General Motors, like American business in general, is 'plainly in trouble' because intellectual bromides have been substituted for a sound intellectual exposition of its point of view." Mr. St. John then commented on the tendency of business leaders to compromise with and appease critics. He cited the concessions which Nader wins from management, and spoke of "the fallacious view many businessmen take toward their critics." He drew a parallel to the mistaken tactics of many college administrators: "College administrators learned too late that such appeasement serves to destroy free speech, academic freedom and genuine scholarship. One campus radical demand was conceded by university heads only to be followed by a fresh crop which soon escalated to what amounted to a demand for outright surrender."

One need not agree entirely with Mr. St. John's analysis. But most observers of the American scene will agree that the essence of his message is sound. American business "plainly in trouble"; the response to the wide range of critics has been ineffective, and has included appeasement; the time has come -- indeed, it is long overdue -- for the wisdom, ingenuity and resources of American business to be marshalled against those who would destroy it.

Responsibility of Business Executives
What specifically should be done? The first essential -- a prerequisite to any effective action -- is for businessmen to confront this problem as a primary responsibility of corporate management.

The overriding first need is for businessmen to recognize that the ultimate issue may be survival -- survival of what we call the free enterprise system, and all that this means for the strength and prosperity of America and the freedom of our people.

The day is long past when the chief executive officer of a major corporation discharges his responsibility by maintaining a satisfactory growth of profits, with due regard to the corporation's public and social responsibilities. If our system is to survive, top management must be equally concerned with protecting and preserving the system itself. This involves far more than an increased emphasis on "public relations" or "governmental affairs" -- two areas in which corporations long have invested substantial sums.

A significant first step by individual corporations could well be the designation of an executive vice president (ranking with other executive VP's) whose responsibility is to counter-on the broadest front-the attack on the enterprise system. The public relations department could be one of the foundations assigned to this executive, but his responsibilities should encompass some of the types of activities referred to subsequently in this memorandum. His budget and staff should be adequate to the task. Possible Role of the Chamber of Commerce

But independent and uncoordinated activity by individual corporations, as important as this is, will not be sufficient. Strength lies in organization, in careful long-range planning and implementation, in consistency of action over an indefinite period of years, in the scale of financing available only through joint effort, and in the political power available only through united action and national organizations.

Moreover, there is the quite understandable reluctance on the part of any one corporation to get too far out in front and to make itself too visible a target.

The role of the National Chamber of Commerce is therefore vital. Other national organizations (especially those of various industrial and commercial groups) should join in the effort, but no other organizations appear to be as well situated as the Chamber. It enjoys a strategic position, with a fine reputation and a broad base of support. Also -- and this is of immeasurable merit -- there are hundreds of local Chambers of Commerce which can play a vital supportive role.

It hardly need be said that before embarking upon any program, the Chamber should study and analyze possible courses of action and activities, weighing risks against probable effectiveness and feasibility of each. Considerations of cost, the assurance of financial and other support from members, adequacy of staffing and similar problems will all require the most thoughtful consideration.

The Campus
The assault on the enterprise system was not mounted in a few months. It has gradually evolved over the past two decades, barely perceptible in its origins and benefiting (sic) from a gradualism that provoked little awareness much less any real reaction.

Although origins, sources and causes are complex and interrelated, and obviously difficult to identify without careful qualification, there is reason to believe that the campus is the single most dynamic source. The social science faculties usually include members who are unsympathetic to the enterprise system. They may range from a Herbert Marcuse, Marxist faculty member at the University of California at San Diego, and convinced socialists, to the ambivalent liberal critic who finds more to condemn than to commend. Such faculty members need not be in a majority. They are often personally attractive and magnetic; they are stimulating teachers, and their controversy attracts student following; they are prolific writers and lecturers; they author many of the textbooks, and they exert enormous influence -- far out of proportion to their numbers -- on their colleagues and in the academic world.

Social science faculties (the political scientist, economist, sociologist and many of the historians) tend to be liberally oriented, even when leftists are not present. This is not a criticism per se, as the need for liberal thought is essential to a balanced viewpoint. The difficulty is that "balance" is conspicuous by its absence on many campuses, with relatively few members being of conservatives or moderate persuasion and even the relatively few often being less articulate and aggressive than their crusading colleagues.

This situation extending back many years and with the imbalance gradually worsening, has had an enormous impact on millions of young American students. In an article in Barron's Weekly, seeking an answer to why so many young people are disaffected even to the point of being revolutionaries, it was said: "Because they were taught that way." 10 Or, as noted by columnist Stewart Alsop, writing about his alma mater: "Yale, like every other major college, is graduating scores' of bright young men ... who despise the American political and economic system."

As these "bright young men," from campuses across the country, seek opportunities to change a system which they have been taught to distrust -- if not, indeed "despise" -- they seek employment in the centers of the real power and influence in our country, namely: (i) with the news media, especially television; (ii) in government, as "staffers" and consultants at various levels; (iii) in elective politics; (iv) as lecturers and writers, and (v) on the faculties at various levels of education.

Many do enter the enterprise system -- in business and the professions -- and for the most part they quickly discover the fallacies of what they have been taught. But those who eschew the mainstream of the system often remain in key positions of influence where they mold public opinion and often shape governmental action. In many instances, these "intellectuals" end up in regulatory agencies or governmental departments with large authority over the business system they do not believe in.

If the foregoing analysis is approximately sound, a priority task of business -- and organizations such as the Chamber -- is to address the campus origin of this hostility. Few things are more sanctified in American life than academic freedom. It would be fatal to attack this as a principle. But if academic freedom is to retain the qualities of "openness," "fairness" and "balance" -- which are essential to its intellectual significance -- there is a great opportunity for constructive action. The thrust of such action must be to restore the qualities just mentioned to the academic communities.

What Can Be Done About the Campus
The ultimate responsibility for intellectual integrity on the campus must remain on the administrations and faculties of our colleges and universities. But organizations such as the Chamber can assist and activate constructive change in many ways, including the following:

Staff of Scholars
The Chamber should consider establishing a staff of highly qualified scholars in the social sciences who do believe in the system. It should include several of national reputation whose authorship would be widely respected -- even when disagreed with.

Staff of Speakers
There also should be a staff of speakers of the highest competency. These might include the scholars, and certainly those who speak for the Chamber would have to articulate the product of the scholars.

Speaker's Bureau
In addition to full-time staff personnel, the Chamber should have a Speaker's Bureau which should include the ablest and most effective advocates from the top echelons of American business.

Evaluation of Textbooks
The staff of scholars (or preferably a panel of independent scholars) should evaluate social science textbooks, especially in economics, political science and sociology. This should be a continuing program.

The objective of such evaluation should be oriented toward restoring the balance essential to genuine academic freedom. This would include assurance of fair and factual treatment of our system of government and our enterprise system, its accomplishments, its basic relationship to individual rights and freedoms, and comparisons with the systems of socialism, fascism and communism. Most of the existing textbooks have some sort of comparisons, but many are superficial, biased and unfair.

We have seen the civil rights movement insist on re-writing many of the textbooks in our universities and schools. The labor unions likewise insist that textbooks be fair to the viewpoints of organized labor. Other interested citizens groups have not hesitated to review, analyze and criticize textbooks and teaching materials. In a democratic society, this can be a constructive process and should be regarded as an aid to genuine academic freedom and not as an intrusion upon it.

If the authors, publishers and users of textbooks know that they will be subjected -- honestly, fairly and thoroughly -- to review and critique by eminent scholars who believe in the American system, a return to a more rational balance can be expected.

Equal Time on the Campus
The Chamber should insist upon equal time on the college speaking circuit. The FBI publishes each year a list of speeches made on college campuses by avowed Communists. The number in 1970 exceeded 100. There were, of course, many hundreds of appearances by leftists and ultra liberals who urge the types of viewpoints indicated earlier in this memorandum. There was no corresponding representation of American business, or indeed by individuals or organizations who appeared in support of the American system of government and business.

Every campus has its formal and informal groups which invite speakers. Each law school does the same thing. Many universities and colleges officially sponsor lecture and speaking programs. We all know the inadequacy of the representation of business in the programs.

It will be said that few invitations would be extended to Chamber speakers. 11 This undoubtedly would be true unless the Chamber aggressively insisted upon the right to be heard -- in effect, insisted upon "equal time." University administrators and the great majority of student groups and committees would not welcome being put in the position publicly of refusing a forum to diverse views, indeed, this is the classic excuse for allowing Communists to speak.

The two essential ingredients are (i) to have attractive, articulate and well-informed speakers; and (ii) to exert whatever degree of pressure -- publicly and privately -- may be necessary to assure opportunities to speak. The objective always must be to inform and enlighten, and not merely to propagandize.

Balancing of Faculties
Perhaps the most fundamental problem is the imbalance of many faculties. Correcting this is indeed a long-range and difficult project. Yet, it should be undertaken as a part of an overall program. This would mean the urging of the need for faculty balance upon university administrators and boards of trustees.

The methods to be employed require careful thought, and the obvious pitfalls must be avoided. Improper pressure would be counterproductive. But the basic concepts of balance, fairness and truth are difficult to resist, if properly presented to boards of trustees, by writing and speaking, and by appeals to alumni associations and groups.

This is a long road and not one for the fainthearted. But if pursued with integrity and conviction it could lead to a strengthening of both academic freedom on the campus and of the values which have made America the most productive of all societies.

Graduate Schools of Business
The Chamber should enjoy a particular rapport with the increasingly influential graduate schools of business. Much that has been suggested above applies to such schools.

Should not the Chamber also request specific courses in such schools dealing with the entire scope of the problem addressed by this memorandum? This is now essential training for the executives of the future.

Secondary Education
While the first priority should be at the college level, the trends mentioned above are increasingly evidenced in the high schools. Action programs, tailored to the high schools and similar to those mentioned, should be considered. The implementation thereof could become a major program for local chambers of commerce, although the control and direction -- especially the quality control -- should be retained by the National Chamber.

What Can Be Done About the Public?
Reaching the campus and the secondary schools is vital for the long-term. Reaching the public generally may be more important for the shorter term. The first essential is to establish the staffs of eminent scholars, writers and speakers, who will do the thinking, the analysis, the writing and the speaking. It will also be essential to have staff personnel who are thoroughly familiar with the media, and how most effectively to communicate with the public. Among the more obvious means are the following:

Television
The national television networks should be monitored in the same way that textbooks should be kept under constant surveillance. This applies not merely to so-called educational programs (such as "Selling of the Pentagon"), but to the daily "news analysis" which so often includes the most insidious type of criticism of the enterprise system.12 Whether this criticism results from hostility or economic ignorance, the result is the gradual erosion of confidence in "business" and free enterprise.

This monitoring, to be effective, would require constant examination of the texts of adequate samples of programs. Complaints -- to the media and to the Federal Communications Commission -- should be made promptly and strongly when programs are unfair or inaccurate.

Equal time should be demanded when appropriate. Effort should be made to see that the forum-type programs (the Today Show, Meet the Press, etc.) afford at least as much opportunity for supporters of the American system to participate as these programs do for those who attack it.

Other Media
Radio and the press are also important, and every available means should be employed to challenge and refute unfair attacks, as well as to present the affirmative case through these media.

The Scholarly Journals
It is especially important for the Chamber's "faculty of scholars" to publish. One of the keys to the success of the liberal and leftist faculty members has been their passion for "publication" and "lecturing." A similar passion must exist among the Chamber's scholars.

Incentives might be devised to induce more "publishing" by independent scholars who do believe in the system.

There should be a fairly steady flow of scholarly articles presented to a broad spectrum of magazines and periodicals -- ranging from the popular magazines (Life, Look, Reader's Digest, etc.) to the more intellectual ones (Atlantic, Harper's, Saturday Review, New York, etc.)13 and to the various professional journals.

Books, Paperbacks and Pamphlets
The news stands -- at airports, drugstores, and elsewhere -- are filled with paperbacks and pamphlets advocating everything from revolution to erotic free love. One finds almost no attractive, well-written paperbacks or pamphlets on "our side." It will be difficult to compete with an Eldridge Cleaver or even a Charles Reich for reader attention, but unless the effort is made -- on a large enough scale and with appropriate imagination to assure some success -- this opportunity for educating the public will be irretrievably lost.

Paid Advertisements
Business pays hundreds of millions of dollars to the media for advertisements. Most of this supports specific products; much of it supports institutional image making; and some fraction of it does support the system. But the latter has been more or less tangential, and rarely part of a sustained, major effort to inform and enlighten the American people.

If American business devoted only 10% of its total annual advertising budget to this overall purpose, it would be a statesman-like expenditure.

The Neglected Political Arena
In the final analysis, the payoff -- short-of revolution -- is what government does. Business has been the favorite whipping-boy of many politicians for many years. But the measure of how far this has gone is perhaps best found in the anti-business views now being expressed by several leading candidates for President of the United States.

It is still Marxist doctrine that the "capitalist" countries are controlled by big business. This doctrine, consistently a part of leftist propaganda all over the world, has a wide public following among Americans.

Yet, as every business executive knows, few elements of American society today have as little influence in government as the American businessman, the corporation, or even the millions of corporate stockholders. If one doubts this, let him undertake the role of "lobbyist" for the business point of view before Congressional committees. The same situation obtains in the legislative halls of most states and major cities. One does not exaggerate to say that, in terms of political influence with respect to the course of legislation and government action, the American business executive is truly the "forgotten man."

Current examples of the impotency of business, and of the near-contempt with which businessmen's views are held, are the stampedes by politicians to support almost any legislation related to "consumerism" or to the "environment."

Politicians reflect what they believe to be majority views of their constituents. It is thus evident that most politicians are making the judgment that the public has little sympathy for the businessman or his viewpoint.

The educational programs suggested above would be designed to enlighten public thinking -- not so much about the businessman and his individual role as about the system which he administers, and which provides the goods, services and jobs on which our country depends.

But one should not postpone more direct political action, while awaiting the gradual change in public opinion to be effected through education and information. Business must learn the lesson, long ago learned by labor and other self-interest groups. This is the lesson that political power is necessary; that such power must be assidously (sic) cultivated; and that when necessary, it must be used aggressively and with determination -- without embarrassment and without the reluctance which has been so characteristic of American business.

As unwelcome as it may be to the Chamber, it should consider assuming a broader and more vigorous role in the political arena.

Neglected Opportunity in the Courts
American business and the enterprise system have been affected as much by the courts as by the executive and legislative branches of government. Under our constitutional system, especially with an activist-minded Supreme Court, the judiciary may be the most important instrument for social, economic and political change.

Other organizations and groups, recognizing this, have been far more astute in exploiting judicial action than American business. Perhaps the most active exploiters of the judicial system have been groups ranging in political orientation from "liberal" to the far left.

The American Civil Liberties Union is one example. It initiates or intervenes in scores of cases each year, and it files briefs amicus curiae in the Supreme Court in a number of cases during each term of that court. Labor unions, civil rights groups and now the public interest law firms are extremely active in the judicial arena. Their success, often at business' expense, has not been inconsequential.

This is a vast area of opportunity for the Chamber, if it is willing to undertake the role of spokesman for American business and if, in turn, business is willing to provide the funds.

As with respect to scholars and speakers, the Chamber would need a highly competent staff of lawyers. In special situations it should be authorized to engage, to appear as counsel amicus in the Supreme Court, lawyers of national standing and reputation. The greatest care should be exercised in selecting the cases in which to participate, or the suits to institute. But the opportunity merits the necessary effort.

Neglected Stockholder Power
The average member of the public thinks of "business" as an impersonal corporate entity, owned by the very rich and managed by over-paid executives. There is an almost total failure to appreciate that "business" actually embraces -- in one way or another -- most Americans. Those for whom business provides jobs, constitute a fairly obvious class. But the 20 million stockholders -- most of whom are of modest means -- are the real owners, the real entrepreneurs, the real capitalists under our system. They provide the capital which fuels the economic system which has produced the highest standard of living in all history. Yet, stockholders have been as ineffectual as business executives in promoting a genuine understanding of our system or in exercising political influence.

The question which merits the most thorough examination is how can the weight and influence of stockholders -- 20 million voters -- be mobilized to support (i) an educational program and (ii) a political action program.

Individual corporations are now required to make numerous reports to shareholders. Many corporations also have expensive "news" magazines which go to employees and stockholders. These opportunities to communicate can be used far more effectively as educational media.

The corporation itself must exercise restraint in undertaking political action and must, of course, comply with applicable laws. But is it not feasible -- through an affiliate of the Chamber or otherwise -- to establish a national organization of American stockholders and give it enough muscle to be influential?

A More Aggressive Attitude
Business interests -- especially big business and their national trade organizations -- have tried to maintain low profiles, especially with respect to political action.

As suggested in the Wall Street Journal article, it has been fairly characteristic of the average business executive to be tolerant -- at least in public -- of those who attack his corporation and the system. Very few businessmen or business organizations respond in kind. There has been a disposition to appease; to regard the opposition as willing to compromise, or as likely to fade away in due time.

Business has shunted confrontation politics. Business, quite understandably, has been repelled by the multiplicity of non-negotiable "demands" made constantly by self-interest groups of all kinds.

While neither responsible business interests, nor the United States Chamber of Commerce, would engage in the irresponsible tactics of some pressure groups, it is essential that spokesmen for the enterprise system -- at all levels and at every opportunity -- be far more aggressive than in the past.

There should be no hesitation to attack the Naders, the Marcuses and others who openly seek destruction of the system. There should not be the slightest hesitation to press vigorously in all political arenas for support of the enterprise system. Nor should there be reluctance to penalize politically those who oppose it.

Lessons can be learned from organized labor in this respect. The head of the AFL-CIO may not appeal to businessmen as the most endearing or public-minded of citizens. Yet, over many years the heads of national labor organizations have done what they were paid to do very effectively. They may not have been beloved, but they have been respected -- where it counts the most -- by politicians, on the campus, and among the media.

It is time for American business -- which has demonstrated the greatest capacity in all history to produce and to influence consumer decisions -- to apply their great talents vigorously to the preservation of the system itself.

The Cost
The type of program described above (which includes a broadly based combination of education and political action), if undertaken long term and adequately staffed, would require far more generous financial support from American corporations than the Chamber has ever received in the past. High level management participation in Chamber affairs also would be required.

The staff of the Chamber would have to be significantly increased, with the highest quality established and maintained. Salaries would have to be at levels fully comparable to those paid key business executives and the most prestigious faculty members. Professionals of the great skill in advertising and in working with the media, speakers, lawyers and other specialists would have to be recruited.

It is possible that the organization of the Chamber itself would benefit from restructuring. For example, as suggested by union experience, the office of President of the Chamber might well be a full-time career position. To assure maximum effectiveness and continuity, the chief executive officer of the Chamber should not be changed each year. The functions now largely performed by the President could be transferred to a Chairman of the Board, annually elected by the membership. The Board, of course, would continue to exercise policy control.

Quality Control is Essential
Essential ingredients of the entire program must be responsibility and "quality control." The publications, the articles, the speeches, the media programs, the advertising, the briefs filed in courts, and the appearances before legislative committees -- all must meet the most exacting standards of accuracy and professional excellence. They must merit respect for their level of public responsibility and scholarship, whether one agrees with the viewpoints expressed or not.

Relationship to Freedom
The threat to the enterprise system is not merely a matter of economics. It also is a threat to individual freedom.

It is this great truth -- now so submerged by the rhetoric of the New Left and of many liberals -- that must be re-affirmed if this program is to be meaningful.

There seems to be little awareness that the only alternatives to free enterprise are varying degrees of bureaucratic regulation of individual freedom -- ranging from that under moderate socialism to the iron heel of the leftist or rightist dictatorship.

We in America already have moved very far indeed toward some aspects of state socialism, as the needs and complexities of a vast urban society require types of regulation and control that were quite unnecessary in earlier times. In some areas, such regulation and control already have seriously impaired the freedom of both business and labor, and indeed of the public generally. But most of the essential freedoms remain: private ownership, private profit, labor unions, collective bargaining, consumer choice, and a market economy in which competition largely determines price, quality and variety of the goods and services provided the consumer.

In addition to the ideological attack on the system itself (discussed in this memorandum), its essentials also are threatened by inequitable taxation, and -- more recently -- by an inflation which has seemed uncontrollable.14 But whatever the causes of diminishing economic freedom may be, the truth is that freedom as a concept is indivisible. As the experience of the socialist and totalitarian states demonstrates, the contraction and denial of economic freedom is followed inevitably by governmental restrictions on other cherished rights. It is this message, above all others, that must be carried home to the American people.

Conclusion
It hardly need be said that the views expressed above are tentative and suggestive. The first step should be a thorough study. But this would be an exercise in futility unless the Board of Directors of the Chamber accepts the fundamental premise of this paper, namely, that business and the enterprise system are in deep trouble, and the hour is late.

Footnotes
1 . Variously called: the "free enterprise system," "capitalism," and the "profit system." The American political system of democracy under the rule of law is also under attack, often by the same individuals and organizations who seek to undermine the enterprise system.
2 . Richmond News Leader, June 8, 1970. Column of William F. Buckley, Jr.
3 . N.Y. Times Service article, reprinted Richmond Times-Dispatch, May 17, 1971.
4 . Stewart Alsop, Yale and the Deadly Danger, Newsweek, May 18. 1970.
5 . Editorial, Richmond Times-Dispatch, July 7, 1971.
6 . Dr. Milton Friedman, Prof. of Economics, U. of Chicago, writing a foreword to Dr. Arthur A. Shenfield's Rockford College lectures entitled "The Ideological War Against Western Society," copyrighted 1970 by Rockford College.
7 . Fortune. May, 1971, p. 145. This Fortune analysis of the Nader influence includes a reference to Nader's visit to a college where he was paid a lecture fee of $2,500 for "denouncing America's big corporations in venomous language . . . bringing (rousing and spontaneous) bursts of applause" when he was asked when he planned to run for President.
8 . The Washington Post, Column of William Raspberry, June 28, 1971.
9 . Jeffrey St. John, The Wall Street Journal, May 21, 1971.
* . Italic emphasis added by Mr. Powell.
10 . Barron's National Business and Financial Weekly, "The Total Break with America, The Fifth Annual Conference of Socialist Scholars," Sept. 15, 1969.
11 . On many campuses freedom of speech has been denied to all who express moderate or conservative viewpoints.
12 . It has been estimated that the evening half-hour news programs of the networks reach daily some 50,000,000 Americans.
13 . One illustration of the type of article which should not go unanswered appeared in the popular "The New York" of July 19, 1971. This was entitled "A Populist Manifesto" by ultra liberal Jack Newfield -- who argued that "the root need in our country is 'to redistribute wealth'."
14 . The recent "freeze" of prices and wages may well be justified by the current inflationary crisis. But if imposed as a permanent measure the enterprise system will have sustained a near fatal blow.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/supremecourt/pe ... ent13.html

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November 17th, 2011, 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
well Ill be danged......someone went and drew up a manifesto! Bout time....now get these folks organized enough to ask for some goals to be achieved and MAYBE this whole thing wont go down in history as a total waste of time.

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November 17th, 2011, 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Regularjoe12, what manifesto? I haven't seen one yet.

Meanwhile, another one goes down....with a bulldozer. :D
KCRA wrote:
Occupy Encampment At UC Berkeley Torn Down
POSTED: 7:38 am PST November 17, 2011

BERKELEY, Calif. -- Authorities have cleared an encampment set up by Occupy protesters on the campus of the University of California, Berkeley.

Police in riot gear conducted a raid on the encampment around 3:30 a.m. Thursday, removing about 20 tents and arresting two protesters. Television footage showed a bulldozer moving into the area after the raid.

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that police surrounded the 40 or so campers and gave them 10 minutes to gather their belongings and leave. Only two of the campers stayed behind, and there were reportedly no clashes with police.

Those arrested were identified as 24-year-old Alex Kim, an English major, and 24-year-old Mike Porter, who identified himself as an Occupy Oakland member.

The encampment went up on Tuesday night in defiance of a campus ban on camping.

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/29794553/detai ... z1dzTQGPzJ

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November 17th, 2011, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
More violence from (or inspired by) the OccuCommies:
Fox5Vegas wrote:
Man arrested after tossing fire bomb at Utah bank
Posted: Nov 17, 2011 1:37 PM EST

WEST JORDAN, Utah (AP) - Authorities say a Utah man has been arrested after throwing a Molotov cocktail at a Wells Fargo branch.

Police responded early Thursday morning in West Jordan, about 15 miles south of Salt Lake City. A bank window was cracked, but authorities say the device didn't explode.

The man arrested is 20 years old. His name wasn't released. Authorities say a bomb squad removed suspicious items from his car, but it wasn't immediately clear if they were explosive.

West Jordan spokeswoman Kim Wells says the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have joined the investigation.

The threat comes on the same day Occupy protesters are marking the two-month anniversary of the movement. It wasn't immediately clear if the Utah bomb was connected to the national protest.


http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/16066951/man-arrested-after-tossing-fire-bomb-at-utah-bank

Number of banks firebombed by Tea Partiers: Zero.

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November 17th, 2011, 3:29 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
More examples of police breaking the law
Reason.com wrote:
Occupy Wall Street Response Suddenly Causes Middle Class White People to See Law Enforcement In New Light
Mike Riggs | November 17, 2011
Image
At right is a picture of Keith Gessen, editor of the pro-OWS literary journal N+1 and author of All The Sad Young Literary Men, a readable bildungsroman about a gang of hyper-literate belly buttons who just want to be successful, and happy. In case you cannot tell, Gessen is being arrested in this picture for protesting at Occupy Wall Street. I discovered the image on Twitter, where one can watch the revolution happen in real time. It was captioned thusly: "This is crazy. Skinny intellectuals are no danger."

It's unlikely that fat and/or stupid protesters are any more a danger than Gessen, but I see the captioner's point. Harmless, if obnoxious people, are getting the crap kicked out of them by cops at Occupy protests across the country. In Berkeley, one officer beat a young female student in the stomach completely unprovoked. In Seattle, police sprayed an inch-thick stream of pepper spray into a crowd, hitting an 86-year-old woman and an expectant mother, among others, square in their faces.Journalists who have never covered protests before, much less spent time on a police beat, are getting clubbed, gassed, and cuffed alongside their unwashed and unruly story subjects.

The responses of police departments and Democrat-run municipalities is causing a much needed paradigm shift. The Occupy Wall Street movement is composed largely of people who have never before been cuffed to anything but a headboard, if that. Many of them are white, and some of them are probably urban gentrifiers, which means their previous attitudes toward police likely ranged from indifferent to fond. And now those same cops, who used to only screw with blacks and hispanics, are suddenly going after highly educated, well-bred, pale-faces, AKA "skinny intellectuals."

This is not how police are supposed to be work seems to be the prevailing sentiment. Some crimes are worse than others. Which crimes, and why? Think about it, OWS. If getting pepper-sprayed and batoned for the minor crime of blocking traffic is absolutely outrageous, how much crazier is it to knock down someone's door in the middle of the night, shoot his pets, point a gun at his wife, and call child services all because he had some pot in his house? Do you think you could see yourself protesting that, now that you've been inconvenienced for an afternoon? (If not, that's OK. But it's something you should think about next time you want to tell a stranger that you're doing what you're doing for them.)

Police militarization and the unchecked power of the state is not at the root of OWS. But the debate has shifted somewhat from what OWS should be able to take away from Wall Street, to what the State should not be able to take away from OWS. This is good. Negative rights are good, and they are crumbling.

Which is why I'd encourage all of you in OWS (sorry, been doing a lot of that lately) to think about the politicians you elect, and all the ways you've helped increase the size and scope of the state because you couldn't imagine it shoving a boot up your white, well-behaved rectum. Think about the public workers who you've supported carte blanche—firemen, teachers, police officers—and their unions, and the power those unions have to shield their members from accountability and reform. Because the political check you cut yesterday paid for the gut-check you received today.

[Photo of Keith Gessen by Daniel Massey]

http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/17/occup ... ddenly-cau

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November 17th, 2011, 4:20 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
How is that the police breaking the law? They're doing what they're supposed to do when things get unruly.

Quote:
In Berkeley, one officer beat a young female student in the stomach completely unprovoked.
When the mob becomes unruly, police take everyone to be part of the problem. There is no more unprovoked. Being there when you were asked to leave is provoking action in the first place. The solution is simple, when asked to leave, leave.

Quote:
In Seattle, police sprayed an inch-thick stream of pepper spray into a crowd, hitting an 86-year-old woman and an expectant mother, among others, square in their faces.
Again, are police supposed to pick and choose who in a crowd deserves to be sprayed? If you are a part of the problem, it doesn't matter who you are.

Quote:
Journalists who have never covered protests before, much less spent time on a police beat, are getting clubbed, gassed, and cuffed alongside their unwashed and unruly story subjects.

Bolded part is key. Being a journalist doesn't excuse you from the law when you're right there with people. Same with war-time journalists. There's a procedure you go through and being in the middle of it isn't the smart way to cover things. You know how many journalists die overseas that never get a story covered about them. If you want to cover the insides of a protest, you can expect the same punishment as the actual protesters. There's no magical shield for journalists.


November 17th, 2011, 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
Hippy Beatdown Day continues:
Most Socialist Network on Basic Cable wrote:
Police: 177 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in NYC

Richard Drew / AP msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 10 minutes ago 2011-11-17T21:07:44

NEW YORK — At least 177 people have been arrested during clashes between police and Occupy Wall Street demonstrators in New York City, part of a day of mass gatherings in response to efforts to break up Occupy Wall Street camps nationwide.

Thousands of protesters took to the streets around the U.S., including Los Angeles, Dallas, Portland, Ore., to mark two months since the movement's birth. Dozens of arrests were reported, including 23 in Los Angeles.

One of the largest demonstrations was in New York, where at least 1,000 demonstrators tried to clog up streets around the stock exchange.

Some protesters were bloodied during arrests. Police said an officer suffered a cut on his left hand after a demonstrator threw a piece of glass. He may need stitches.

Five other officers were treated after being hit in the face with stinging liquid.

In New York City, frustrations seemed to spill over in Zuccotti Park, the movement's headquarters since Sept. 17, as hundreds of people shoved back the metal police barricades that have long surrounded the area. A live television shot from above showed waves of police and protesters briefly pushing back and forth before the barricades appeared to be settled at the edge of the park once more.

"All day, all week, shut down Wall Street!" the crowd chanted.

By 10 a.m., police spokesman Paul Browne said, about 50 people had been arrested at various locations in the financial district, mainly for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. That number increased to 75 by midday, including the arrest of a demonstrator who allegedly threw a liquid, possibly vinegar, into the face of an officer, according to NBC New York.

Some of the police hit protesters as they resisted arrest. Most of the marchers retreated. At least four cops were injured in the confrontations, NBC reported.

Hundreds of protesters thronged intersections around the financial district, an area of narrow, crooked streets running between stately sandstone buildings housing banks, brokerage houses and the New York Stock Exchange.

The protesters began marching just before 8 a.m., according to NBC New York, but were initially blocked by police once they reached the intersection of Nassau and Pine streets. A law-enforcement source estimated there were about 700 protesters by the time the group met police.

Story: To demand or not to demand? That is the 'Occupy' question
"You do not have a parade permit! You are blocking the street!" a police officer told protesters through a bullhorn.

By early afternoon, police officers stormed into Zucotti Park, clearing demonstrators out of the park's center, according to The New York Times. Protesters said one person was beaten in the confrontation.

The congestion brought taxis and delivery trucks to a halt. Police were allowing Wall Street workers through the barricades, but only after checking their IDs.

The protest marked two months since the Occupy Wall Street Movement sprang to life on Sept. 17 with a failed attempt to pitch a protest camp in front of the New York Stock Exchange. After police kept them out of Wall Street, the protesters pitched a camp in nearby Zuccotti Park, across from the World Trade Center site.

On Tuesday police raided Zuccotti Park and cleared out dozens of tents, tarps and sleeping bags.

"This is a critical moment for the movement given what happened the other night," Paul Knick, 44, a software engineer from Montclair, N.J., said as he marched through the financial district with other protesters on Thursday. "It seems like there's a concerted effort to stop the movement and I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen."

Similar protests were planned around the county.

The New York group announced it would rally near the New York Stock Exchange, then fan out across Manhattan and head to subways, before gathering downtown and marching over the Brooklyn Bridge.

A past attempt to march across the bridge drew the first significant international attention to the Occupy movement when more than 700 people were arrested.

The police department said it would have scores of officers ready to handle protesters in the subways.

"The protesters are calling for a massive event aimed at disrupting major parts of the city," Deputy Mayor Howard Wolfson said. "We will be prepared for that."

Passer-by Gene Williams, a 57-year-old bond trader, joked that he was "one of the bad guys" but that he empathized with the demonstrators.

"They have a point in a lot of ways," he said. "The fact of the matter is, there is a schism between the rich and the poor and it's getting wider."

New York City officials said they had not spoken to demonstrators but were aware of the plans.

"The protesters are calling for a massive event aimed at disrupting major parts of the city," Deputy Mayor Howard Wolfson said. "We will be prepared for that."

New York taxi driver Mike Tupea, a Romanian immigrant, said his car was stuck amid the protesters for 40 minutes.

"I have to make a living. I pay $100 for 12 hours for this cab. I am losing money every minute," he said. "I have all my sympathies for this movement but let me do my living, let working people make a living."

Some of the latest developments in other Occupy protests:

Washington state
An 84-year-old woman has become a face of the national Occupy Wall Street movement after she was hit with pepper spray during a Seattle march.

A photo of Dorli Rainey with the chemical irritant dripping from her chin quickly went viral, becoming one of the most striking images from the protests that have taken place in cities across the globe.

Rainey has been active in Seattle's liberal politics for decades and once ran for mayor. She said Wednesday that she showed up at the downtown protest the previous day to show support.

Rainey was not among the six people arrested.

Mayor Mike McGinn is apologizing to some protesters who were pepper sprayed during a march and said he has spoken to Rainey.

Nevada
In a city that celebrates behaving badly, Occupy Las Vegas protesters are touting civil obedience and government cooperation as anti-Wall Street efforts elsewhere have turned to violence and police confrontations.

Las Vegas demonstrators have sought approval from government leaders and police before protesting or setting up a camp site. They called off a protest during President Barack Obama's visit to Las Vegas last month because police asked them to do so. And they have created a system of protest rules that ban, among other things, law-breaking and hate signs.

The good behavior in Las Vegas and other Occupy efforts across Nevada is even more noteworthy because Nevadans may have the most cause to rage against the machine. The state tops the nation in foreclosures and unemployment and entire neighborhoods have been overtaken by vacant homes and storefronts.

But while protesters in other cities riot and rage, the Vegas group is hosting a series of free foreclosure mediation workshops for homeowners who are underwater on their mortgages.

Organizers insist their anti-greed message has a better chance of spreading if they aren't labeled violent anarchists.

Pennsylvania
Philadelphia officials have told protesters camping out next to City Hall to leave because of the "imminent" start of a long-planned renovation project.

Mayor Michael Nutter's office said Wednesday the city has posted an official notice saying the $50 million renovation work at Dilworth Plaza is about to start following selection of a general contractor. Officials issued no deadline and said they would work with the protesters on finding another location for them.

"This project's commencement is imminent," the statement said. "Accordingly, you should take this opportunity to vacate Dilworth Plaza and remove all of your personal belongings immediately."

The protesters have had hundreds of tents camped in the plaza for more than a month. The group has resisted the city's call to move to another plaza across the street to clear the way for the renovation.

South Carolina
Officers started arresting Occupy Columbia protesters Wednesday after Gov. Nikki Haley ordered them to leave the Statehouse grounds. The governor said the people who had been sleeping on the complex for more than a month had cost the state more than $17,000 in property damage and overtime for police.

About 20 people challenge the governor's order and they were arrested in the pouring rain without incident.

The governor said she tired of seeing mattresses, sleeping bags, storage bins and toilet paper on the grounds that house her offices, the state's legislative chambers, office buildings and Court of Appeals.

Massachusetts
A Boston judge has ordered the city not to remove protesters or their tents from a downtown encampment without court approval, except in an emergency such as fire, a medical issue or an outbreak of violence.

A temporary restraining order was issued after a hearing Wednesday on the protesters' lawsuit. Fuller arguments will be heard Dec. 1, and the judge orders the sides to hold a mediation session before then.

A lawyer for the demonstrators says they are concerned they will be forced out in the middle of the night as Occupy protesters were in New York City this week.

California
Several hundred Occupy Wall Street sympathizers marched through downtown Los Angeles again after police stopped their progress down Broadway when they spilled off the sidewalk and into the street.

Three people were arrested as lines of officers forced the group back onto sidewalks. Police then allowed marchers to leave. The group headed west on 3rd Street, staying on sidewalks.

Earlier Thursday, police arrested 23 people without incident after they sat down in a street during a peaceful rally by hundreds of people organized by labor groups who had a permit. Two other people were also arrested separately for interfering with officers.

The day's second march left the Occupy LA encampment at City Hall shortly after noon.

Oregon
Protesters and police faced off on the Steel Bridge in Portland Thursday morning in what was expected to be a day-long series of Occupy Portland demonstrations, according to KGW.com.

Police arrived early to close the bridge ahead of the rally, KGW.com reported.

Indiana
Occupy Indy protesters have been given 24-hours to clear out their camp on the Statehouse lawn.

In a letter delivered Wednesday, the Department of Administration ordered the handful of remaining protesters to clear out. The state gave protesters until Thursday afternoon to clear out and said protesters who try to stop them will be arrested.

Protesters said the order was not about their safety but about stifling their demonstration.

London, England
Protesters camped outside St. Paul's Cathedral in London said Thursday they are staying put as a deadline passed for them to take down their tents or face legal action.

London officials attached eviction notices to the tents Wednesday, demanding they be removed from the churchyard by 1 p.m. EST Thursday.

The Occupy London group said no one had left by the deadline, and marked its passing with a rally and a minute of silence outside the cathedral.

"The general feeling is excitement at the moment," said protester Nathan Cravens, 27. "It's brought us together."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45340184/ns/us_news-life/#.TsVqHc33KAs

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November 17th, 2011, 5:35 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
TheRealWags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
Wags, I get yer vibe on where you stand on the OWS stuff, and I can respect that. but im starting to get a very "anti police" vibe from you. am I reading things correctly?

While like all things with a large group of people, a few bad eggs definatly exist, but i couldn't imagine the hell that life would become without the police around.....

lets assume that the reports are correct and these Occupy people are causing too many problems for regular folk...how would YOU disban them differently than the police are now?

I'm not anti-police, far from it. I do, however, expect them to act professionally and do their job to the best of their ability. Perhaps this might help to explain a bit, as I said in the Sly lover thread:
Quote:
it is the person that is actually elected's responsibility to do the right thing, NO MATTER WHAT. THAT is what is means to serve the people.
Granted police officers are not elected, however they still SERVE the public and that, to me, means they are supposed to do the right thing. Stand up for the 'little guy' if you will.
Quote:
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong.
Dawson: Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie.
Do I hold the police to a higher standard? You bet your rectum I do, why shouldn't I?


ok so far s good, but you failed to mention what you would have done differently. You are dealing with a mob. the whole lot of em are at this point breaking the law. your job is to disperse the crowd and they have no intention of leaving...what do you do? my guess is you are against mace, and any kind of non lethal force....so....what do you do to empty the streets to that the rest of the tax paying public can use that space safely again?


PS Great Goonie reference BTW :wink:

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November 17th, 2011, 6:23 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I think even Wags will agree that this is taking things too far:
CBS New York wrote:
OWS Protesters Chant ‘Follow Those Kids!’ As Small Children Try To Go To School On Wall Street
Tiny Tots, Some As Young As 4, Overwhelmed By Hostility, Crush Of Humanity
November 17, 2011 6:02 PM

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — They were caught in the middle of madness.

Some grade school students were forced to walk a gauntlet of screaming “Occupy Wall Street” protesters just to get to school on Thursday.

It was a wild day in lower Manhattan for most everyone involved, including elementary school children who had to brave the mayhem just to get to class on the other side of Wall Street.

In the middle of thousands of protestors yelling and chanting — some kicking and screaming – CBS 2’s Emily Smith found little school kids trying to get to class. Nervous parents led them through the barriers on Wall Street. The NYPD helped funnel the children, anything to ease their fears while some protestors chanted “follow those kids!”

“These guys are terrorists, yelling at little kids,” one father said.

“For them it’s horrible. They’re afraid of all the crowds. We’re not even able to get through. They’re just, he’s … very afraid now,” a mother added.

One protester followed a father and his little daughter all the way down the block. As the school day ended just after 3 p.m. children trickled out of Leman Manhattan Prep on Broad Street. Smith heard a 4-year-old boy telling his mom he was scared. He told Smith it looked like a parade.

“There was a parade. It was scary — crowded with school,” the boy said.

“After a while it got so bad some parents couldn’t get their children through and they had to go late,” said Gary Goldenstein of Tribeca.

Some saw the day’s doings as chaos; others saw it differently.

“The parents actually along with teachers were at every entry point into this area, which is fantastic,” said Vicki Pitcock of Tribeca.

School officials said they haven’t had to change school times or cancel class, and are trying to keep it that way.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/17/ows-protesters-chant-follow-those-kids-as-small-children-try-to-go-to-school-on-wall-street/

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November 17th, 2011, 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
I don't recall any drunk children wandering about a tea party:
KCCI wrote:
Drunk 11-Year-Old Found At Occupy Protest
Boy Discovered Vomiting On Courthouse Lawn; Adult Arrested
POSTED: 10:29 am CDT October 26, 2011

A 27-year-old man has been charged after Montana police found an 11-year-old boy drunk at an Occupy Missoula protest.

John Skinner encountered the boy and a friend outside a Missoula bar last week. The friend asked Skinner to buy them alcohol, and he told police he brought the boys to his tent on the protest grounds so he could keep an eye on them, police told Missoula TV station KECI.

But police said Skinner was nowhere to be found when they discovered the 11-year-old unconscious and vomiting on the lawn of the county courthouse.

Skinner was arrested and pleaded not guilty Thursday to endangering the welfare of a child. He remained in custody on $2,000 bail.

The 11-year-old boy appeared in court with his mother and pleaded guilty to underage drinking.

Occupy Missoula organizers said they have a zero tolerance policy for drinking on site and were taking the charges "very seriously."

Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/29591720/detai ... z1e1kiTiwo

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November 18th, 2011, 12:20 am
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
regularjoe12 wrote:
ok so far s good, but you failed to mention what you would have done differently. You are dealing with a mob. the whole lot of em are at this point breaking the law. your job is to disperse the crowd and they have no intention of leaving...what do you do? my guess is you are against mace, and any kind of non lethal force....so....what do you do to empty the streets to that the rest of the tax paying public can use that space safely again?
Take this for what its worth, as I'm not a crowd control expert, but I why not just gather them into one location and let them be? As long as they're not hurting anyone, what's the big deal? So what if other people are inconvenienced for a bit and not able to drive down a particular road, I'm quite sure there's another way they could get where they're going. Not too mention the adage that if you treat people like criminals/animals/herds, then that is EXACTLY how they're going to act.

regularjoe12 wrote:
PS Great Goonie reference BTW :wink:
Honestly can't remember if it was in Goonies, but the quote I posted was from A Few Good Men.

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November 18th, 2011, 10:10 am
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
The problem is they have been hurting people. Its not like they're just gathered together and not causing any issues. There are sanity issues, there's the multiple rapes and sexual assaults, broken windows and other property damage. Its not like a typical protest where people are just walking in circles with signs. Crimes are being committed and in a crowd situation, your own safety does become a concern. They can't try to differentiate between innocents and guilty in a riot. You've already been warned and asked to leave. If you are in that area, you're part of the problem.


November 18th, 2011, 11:39 am
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Post Re: Occupy Wall Street
njroar wrote:
The problem is they have been hurting people. Its not like they're just gathered together and not causing any issues. There are sanity issues, there's the multiple rapes and sexual assaults, broken windows and other property damage. Its not like a typical protest where people are just walking in circles with signs. Crimes are being committed and in a crowd situation, your own safety does become a concern. They can't try to differentiate between innocents and guilty in a riot. You've already been warned and asked to leave. If you are in that area, you're part of the problem.

You mean they're a close representation of society? :shock: Wow! What a shocker! Don't get me wrong, I do not condone the actions of the few that you and others like to continually point out, not at all; but that said, can you show me an example of 10s of thousands of people getting together for a sustained period of time and there not being any problems?

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November 18th, 2011, 12:41 pm
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