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 Cost To Drive a Volt 
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
regularjoe12 wrote:
where does the Tesla rate? does anyone know? Thats a company that I've been eyballing since Steens brought it to my attention.


It has a good range, and they make good power (they're actually pretty fast), but I can't see how they can get over the $0.74 per mile hang up. Seems like a cool novelty, but 1) the efficiency isn't there, and 2) they're making the dam electricity by burning coal, so they're not really environmentally friendly.


February 22nd, 2012, 5:17 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
where does the Tesla rate? does anyone know? Thats a company that I've been eyballing since Steens brought it to my attention.


It has a good range, and they make good power (they're actually pretty fast), but I can't see how they can get over the $0.74 per mile hang up. Seems like a cool novelty, but 1) the efficiency isn't there, and 2) they're making the dam electricity by burning coal, so they're not really environmentally friendly.



YOU'RE KIDDING! oh the irony....thats so sad it's hilarious!

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February 22nd, 2012, 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
where does the Tesla rate? does anyone know? Thats a company that I've been eyballing since Steens brought it to my attention.


It has a good range, and they make good power (they're actually pretty fast), but I can't see how they can get over the $0.74 per mile hang up. Seems like a cool novelty, but 1) the efficiency isn't there, and 2) they're making the dam electricity by burning coal, so they're not really environmentally friendly.



YOU'RE KIDDING! oh the irony....thats so sad it's hilarious!

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but the majority of the electricity in this country is produced by coal plants. So anything that uses more electricity may be increasing emissions from coal plants.

The question (that I don't know the answer to) is whether or not increasing usage of electric cars will actually increase coal electric plant production. It may be that the plants are already operating at max capacity, so it won't make any difference and does indeed take some pollutants out of the air. Or it could be the opposite and it is much more polluting than just driving a regular car.

Also, the total cost of driving an electric car is going to vary with the price of gas & electricity. Sometimes it will make sense. Others it won't.

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February 23rd, 2012, 10:07 am
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
I say go with natural gas, much cheaper than gas + burns cleaner.

It's the way to go.


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February 23rd, 2012, 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
Gasoline cars are the past. Global oil production has peaked. There is still plenty of coal and plenty of natural gas.

I predict that, 20 years or so from now, virtually all passenger cars will be electric and trucks will run off natural gas.


February 23rd, 2012, 8:35 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
Funny, we're sitting on the possible worlds largest supply of oil, between the gulf, and western states but we can't get to it and or use it, till we come up with something better.

Uncle Tom seems to be making jokes about how our only answer is to drill, but all he does is talk. He has the power and ability to increase our national reserve, open up areas for drilling and output, and create at least 20,000 new jobs, and he won't do it.

What a shame, and a waste of a man....

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February 23rd, 2012, 8:43 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
Quote:
Funny, we're sitting on the possible worlds largest supply of oil, between the gulf, and western states but we can't get to it and or use it, till we come up with something better.


What?

The problem with 90% of your posts is that they're completely factually inaccurate. The US has exhausted most of its oil, having only major fields left in the shale reigons. We are, however, sitting on the Saudi Arabian equivalent of natural gas.

EDIT:

Take a look: http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?c ... production

US oil production peaked in the 1980s, and has been declining ever since. It has seen somewhat of a resurgence in recent years due to North Dakota and the like, but we cannot simply drill our way out of it.


February 23rd, 2012, 8:48 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
Blueskies wrote:
The problem with 90% of your posts is that they're completely factually inaccurate.

Talking to yourself again? :lol:

Sorry, but that was a softball that I couldn't help but knock out of the park.

The truth is that if shale oil can safely and economically be produced, the US has over 3 trillion barrels in reserve, or over 5 times the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. The only question is whether it's technologically feasible to do so and if the US Government will allow it to be extracted. And this doesn't even include the oil avaiable in ANWR, the gulf, both coasts, and countless other areas throughout the country where Obama won't allow drilling.

I also agree with others that we should start converting and manufacturing vehicles (both cars and trucks IMO) to run on natural gas. As Blueskies said, we are the Saudi Arabia of that natural resource, so we ought to use it. Comrade Obama even mentioned it in an energy speech today and it's one of the few times I've ever agreed with him. However, like many other things, I suspect he was only pandering and has no intention of following through with it.

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February 23rd, 2012, 10:52 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
OK boys, let me explain why that a$$holes original article is COMPLETELY off-base:

1. GM doesn't advertise that the Volt WILL get 40 miles per charge. What they've advertised is that the car can get up to 40 miles on a single charge, without switching to the onboard generator (that's what the engine actually is, since it doesn't drive the wheels) based on driving habits, use of on board electrical devices (A/C, heat, radio, etc.) and ambient air temperature. The amount of charge the battery can hold will, LIKE ANY OTHER BATTERY, decay over time.

2. It does NOT take 10 hours to charge a Volt. Why? Well, Einstein said that the battery gets depleted. THAT IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FALSE. The battery should NEVER deplete on this car, as the system is designed to make the switchover when the batter is at roughly 30-35% of it's total capacity. The generator then maintains that level of charge until the battery is plugged in and re-charged to capacity.

3. In regards to the smart badonkadonk postings about the Volts catching fire "for no reason"....so, I guess a vehicle that is involved in a high speed collision is "no reason" for a fire to occur? And let me add, these were vehicles that had been crashed and didn't catch fire until DAYS later, well after any driver/occupant/by stander/first responder would be a safe distance away from said vehicle. As a matter of fact, the standard procedure issued by GM BEFORE these occurances to any establishment working on a Volt involved in a crash was to remove the battery and return it to GM for review and testing. They were also told to store batteries as if they could be a hazard, simply because of the chemicals within the battery. And this happened on only two vehicles out of literally HUNDREDS that have been crashed.

4. So those of you who think the Leaf is a better vehicle...go buy one. The charge in a Michigan on a cold day will last you until about 80 miles. Hopefully I see you standing on the side of the highway in freezing temperatures with an extension cord in your blue hands, hoping that someone with a generator in the back of their pickup truck stops and helps you out. Because Lord knows, you won't find an outlet to plug into on any exit ramp, but you can find a gas station.

And for those of you who don't know...I am an engineer at GM, in fuel systems, and I am the engineer responsible for certain Volt components. That is why I know this information.

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February 24th, 2012, 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
m2karateman wrote:
OK boys, let me explain why that a$$holes original article is COMPLETELY off-base:

1. GM doesn't advertise that the Volt WILL get 40 miles per charge. What they've advertised is that the car can get up to 40 miles on a single charge, without switching to the onboard generator (that's what the engine actually is, since it doesn't drive the wheels) based on driving habits, use of on board electrical devices (A/C, heat, radio, etc.) and ambient air temperature. The amount of charge the battery can hold will, LIKE ANY OTHER BATTERY, decay over time.

2. It does NOT take 10 hours to charge a Volt. Why? Well, Einstein said that the battery gets depleted. THAT IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FALSE. The battery should NEVER deplete on this car, as the system is designed to make the switchover when the batter is at roughly 30-35% of it's total capacity. The generator then maintains that level of charge until the battery is plugged in and re-charged to capacity.

3. In regards to the smart badonkadonk postings about the Volts catching fire "for no reason"....so, I guess a vehicle that is involved in a high speed collision is "no reason" for a fire to occur? And let me add, these were vehicles that had been crashed and didn't catch fire until DAYS later, well after any driver/occupant/by stander/first responder would be a safe distance away from said vehicle. As a matter of fact, the standard procedure issued by GM BEFORE these occurances to any establishment working on a Volt involved in a crash was to remove the battery and return it to GM for review and testing. They were also told to store batteries as if they could be a hazard, simply because of the chemicals within the battery. And this happened on only two vehicles out of literally HUNDREDS that have been crashed.

4. So those of you who think the Leaf is a better vehicle...go buy one. The charge in a Michigan on a cold day will last you until about 80 miles. Hopefully I see you standing on the side of the highway in freezing temperatures with an extension cord in your blue hands, hoping that someone with a generator in the back of their pickup truck stops and helps you out. Because Lord knows, you won't find an outlet to plug into on any exit ramp, but you can find a gas station.

And for those of you who don't know...I am an engineer at GM, in fuel systems, and I am the engineer responsible for certain Volt components. That is why I know this information.



That's all well and good M2, but you more or less pointed out a couple of engineering quibbles with his writing, and IMO didn't address the real issue.

I realize that in your world whether the battery is totally dead or ran down to 30-35% is a big deal, however, for practical purposes I can see why a news reporter would report that a battery is "dead" when the generator kicks on, even if there is a safety mechanism that is meant to make the battery last that never allows it to get completely dead.

The fire thing is just stupid in my book, but I understand the "flare" in the report.

However, the main issue is the COST of driving one of these things. It was marketed as costing "pennies" on the dollar to drive compared to one of those evil gas eating vehicles. It was marketed as creating an "insignificant" increase on your electric bill, while potentially saving $50-60 bux a week in gas. It was marketed as a smart financial decision, but this article not only shows that it wasn't the case, but also that it costs 700% more to drive a Volt. THAT'S the main problem the article addresses, not whether or not the Volt's battery really dies down to 0% before it kicks on, and not whether it "just happens" to catch fire.


February 24th, 2012, 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
M2K, so we have you to thank for that travesty? Thanks, buddy! :D

As for the fire thing, I knew the Volts involved had been in crashes several days earlier, but saying "for no reason" sounded funnier. I bet the guy who had his garage burned down isn't laughing though.

To continue the humor in my post, enjoy:

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February 24th, 2012, 5:40 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
OK boys, let me explain why that a$$holes original article is COMPLETELY off-base:

1. GM doesn't advertise that the Volt WILL get 40 miles per charge. What they've advertised is that the car can get up to 40 miles on a single charge, without switching to the onboard generator (that's what the engine actually is, since it doesn't drive the wheels) based on driving habits, use of on board electrical devices (A/C, heat, radio, etc.) and ambient air temperature. The amount of charge the battery can hold will, LIKE ANY OTHER BATTERY, decay over time.

2. It does NOT take 10 hours to charge a Volt. Why? Well, Einstein said that the battery gets depleted. THAT IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FALSE. The battery should NEVER deplete on this car, as the system is designed to make the switchover when the batter is at roughly 30-35% of it's total capacity. The generator then maintains that level of charge until the battery is plugged in and re-charged to capacity.

3. In regards to the smart badonkadonk postings about the Volts catching fire "for no reason"....so, I guess a vehicle that is involved in a high speed collision is "no reason" for a fire to occur? And let me add, these were vehicles that had been crashed and didn't catch fire until DAYS later, well after any driver/occupant/by stander/first responder would be a safe distance away from said vehicle. As a matter of fact, the standard procedure issued by GM BEFORE these occurances to any establishment working on a Volt involved in a crash was to remove the battery and return it to GM for review and testing. They were also told to store batteries as if they could be a hazard, simply because of the chemicals within the battery. And this happened on only two vehicles out of literally HUNDREDS that have been crashed.

4. So those of you who think the Leaf is a better vehicle...go buy one. The charge in a Michigan on a cold day will last you until about 80 miles. Hopefully I see you standing on the side of the highway in freezing temperatures with an extension cord in your blue hands, hoping that someone with a generator in the back of their pickup truck stops and helps you out. Because Lord knows, you won't find an outlet to plug into on any exit ramp, but you can find a gas station.

And for those of you who don't know...I am an engineer at GM, in fuel systems, and I am the engineer responsible for certain Volt components. That is why I know this information.



That's all well and good M2, but you more or less pointed out a couple of engineering quibbles with his writing, and IMO didn't address the real issue.

I realize that in your world whether the battery is totally dead or ran down to 30-35% is a big deal, however, for practical purposes I can see why a news reporter would report that a battery is "dead" when the generator kicks on, even if there is a safety mechanism that is meant to make the battery last that never allows it to get completely dead.

The fire thing is just stupid in my book, but I understand the "flare" in the report.

However, the main issue is the COST of driving one of these things. It was marketed as costing "pennies" on the dollar to drive compared to one of those evil gas eating vehicles. It was marketed as creating an "insignificant" increase on your electric bill, while potentially saving $50-60 bux a week in gas. It was marketed as a smart financial decision, but this article not only shows that it wasn't the case, but also that it costs 700% more to drive a Volt. THAT'S the main problem the article addresses, not whether or not the Volt's battery really dies down to 0% before it kicks on, and not whether it "just happens" to catch fire.


OK...lets talk money. It's OK to have a Leaf, which has been stated. But the writer complained about the electricity costs versus gas. He claims the per gallon cost of driving on electricity is more than gas. But the Leaf is OK? How ridiculous is THAT? If it costs more for electricity, how does having a Leaf gain anyone an advantage? Answer: it doesn't (I realize the writer never mentioned his preference for the Nissan Leaf, but someone on this forum did).

Second, check out his costs regarding the Volt. $1.16 per kWh? Where the Hell does this guy live that he's paying that much for electricity, the Galapogos Islands? Check your electricity bills for the cost per kWh and get back with me. You'll soon find his numbers are WAY over what we pay here. And his estimate for the overall range of the vehicle at 270 miles is about 90 miles below what it has checked out to be. And that range of 360 miles is still three to four times more than the Leaf.

And part of his "issue" was the time and cost of recharging the battery. He claims it takes, based on a drained battery, ten hours for a recharge. THAT IS A FUKKING LIE!!!! Why? Because the battery is NEVER drained, and therefore won't take 10 hours to charge. Even with the battery down to a point where the engine kicks it, it will only take about 6 to 7 hours (depending on various factors) for the car to recharge using standard 110 volt. Half that if you are using a 220 line.

The Volt was not designed with everyone in mind. It was designed as a commuter car for the vast majority (about 80%) of people in the United States to be able to drive to work and back home without burning gas. 35-40 miles is the commute for most people in the United States. There are people who have purchased a Volt and went months without having to put gas in the tank.

So Sly, wjb and all you others who want to continue bashing the Volt, go right ahead. Sing the praises of the Nissan Leaf, which has already undergone two recall campaigns due to design issues and has had their "range" rating reduced because the battery doesn't hold the charge like they advertised. There's been many articles doing a head to head comparison between those two vehicles, and just about everyone of them shows the Volt as the superior vehicle. And many of those articles are written by journalists who have been notoriously biased against GM, Ford and Chrysler.

And sly, I'm not the one who said "for no reason".

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February 25th, 2012, 1:43 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
I thought that the Leaf retailed for 20-25k. I did not realize it was 35k. I retract my claim that it is superior to the volt.

Neither the volt nor the leaf nor Tesla's offerings (their new models get hundreds of miles to the charge but cost as much as a BMW) make sense currently. I don't think electric cars will make sense until you can buy a car for under $30k that gets 150+ miles/charge.

I read a stat that the average Volt owner makes close to $200k/year. At that pay scale, gas bill is hardly an issue. So arguing that its a good car for the typical commuter doesn't make much sense.

But I'm glad GM is laying the groundwork now for the future. I hope they start developing natural gas engines as well.


February 25th, 2012, 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
Blueskies wrote:
I thought that the Leaf retailed for 20-25k. I did not realize it was 35k. I retract my claim that it is superior to the volt.

Neither the volt nor the leaf nor Tesla's offerings (their new models get hundreds of miles to the charge but cost as much as a BMW) make sense currently. I don't think electric cars will make sense until you can buy a car for under $30k that gets 150+ miles/charge.

I read a stat that the average Volt owner makes close to $200k/year. At that pay scale, gas bill is hardly an issue. So arguing that its a good car for the typical commuter doesn't make much sense.

But I'm glad GM is laying the groundwork now for the future. I hope they start developing natural gas engines as well.


GM has already begun building small numbers of various forms of alternative fuels and propulsion systems. Without going into detail, it's well known that they have small fleets of CNG trucks, fuel cell vehicles (the REAL future of alternative propulsion, in my opinion) and various forms of hybrids in both production and non-production formats. They also have an all electric vehicle in the works. And it's already been announced that a diesel version of the Cruze will be coming out shortly.

What needs to be understood is that all car companies producing electric or plug in hybrids are hamstrung by the cost of the batteries, and the technology limitations. GM knew that the battery technology wouldn't be good enough to give the world a car that could have the same range as a combustion gas engine vehicle, so that's why they went with the system they have on the Volt. The main difference between the Volt and other hybrids, such as the Prius, is that in the Volt it is the battery that is the main propulsion system, driving the wheels. In the Prius, the gas engine actually drives the wheels, with the battery only used a small portion of the time. The gas engine in a Volt only maintains the charge level in the battery, it does nothing else.

Just because the people who are choosing to purchase a Volt make that much money a year, doesn't mean it isn't suitable for typical consumers. If a Volt costs $42k, and then you take the $7500 tax credit off that, you are looking at a car for under $35k. You can't sit there and tell me that the only people who drive a Cadillac CTS, or a Tahoe, or an Expedition, or any other vehicle that costs over $35k are making that much. And if you really stop and think about it, if you are a person who drives less than 40 miles round trip to work each day, the savings on gas alone would save you at least another $100 to $200 per month, depending on just how far you drive the car each day. People don't stop to think about just how much in gas they'll save, they only worry about the initial out of pocket costs. Perhaps that's why the people who are buying Volts make $200k per year. They know a good deal when they see one, and know how to save money more than the average person.

My understanding is that anyone can lease a Volt for $350 per month, with $2500 down. That may even get adjusted down now that the car is in higher production volumes. If you are the typical commuter, you'll get that down payment back in your pocket by way of fuel savings over the course of two years, maximum. And unlike the ramblings of that idiot who wrote the article, charging the Volt doesn't increase your electric bill by leaps and bounds. Having your computer turned on over night will cost you just as much as recharging your Volt over night.

The rumblings on Wall Street are that the national average on gas prices in the U.S. could increase to $5 per gallon by summer. If that happens, I want to see how the people who are criticizing the Volt as not being cost effective will react to that.

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February 26th, 2012, 1:07 am
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Post Re: Cost To Drive a Volt
frok wrote:
I say go with natural gas, much cheaper than gas + burns cleaner.

It's the way to go.


Frok


And safe too! Just imagine that explosion in a rollover accident!

W

The biggest shame here are all those Saturn ev1's GM crushed....

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February 26th, 2012, 1:41 am
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