View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently July 28th, 2014, 10:38 pm



Reply to topic  [ 190 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 13  Next
 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code. 
Author Message
Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 9:00 am
Posts: 1839
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
MWill, I thought the article was pretty clear about who they were talking about.

The scientists told Kinnaird that the mitochondrial DNA from his mother's lineage was 30,000 years old, and just two genetic mutations removed from the first woman — Eve. Yes, that Eve.

If I understand correctly, it was the mitochondrial DNA that proved humans come from an original set of parents, and this mDNA is generally found in the mother's DNA chain.


If we can assume that the author is referring to the Biblical Eve, then the author is a liar. Homo sapiens had been roaming Africa for at least 30,000 years before "Mitochondrial Eve" existed. Kinnaird's genetic grandmother was NOT the first woman on Earth, nor was she the only woman on Earth during her lifetime. That's why calling her "Eve" was a bad idea; it would have been better to call her "Genetic Grandma" or something like that.

Another misconception: mitochondrial DNA has traced human lineage back to a common mother. Not a common set of parents. The "genetic Adam" (for lack of a better term) is older than "Mitochondrial Eve," perhaps many generations older. They were not sexual partners.

Below is a quote from the article I posted above. For context: the study used 147 placentas to trace mitochondrial DNA and indeed found that all 147 DNA strands originated from a single woman ("Mitochondrial Eve"). You can see that one of the researchers was concerned about people misunderstanding the findings when people started calling this distant relative by the name "Eve."

Quote:
All the babies' DNA could be traced back, ultimately, to one woman. In itself that wasn't surprising, at least not to statisticians familiar with the quirks of genetic inheritance. "There must be one lucky mother," Wilson says. "I worry about the term 'Eve' a little bit because of the implication that in her generation there were only two people. We are not saying that. We're saying that in her generation there was some unknown number of men and women, probably a fairly large number, maybe a few thousand." Many of these other women presumably are also our ancestors, because their nuclear genes would have been passed along to sons and daughters and eventually would have reached us. But at some point these other women's mitochondrial genes disappeared because their descendants failed to have daughters, and so the mitochondrial DNA wasn't passed along. At first glance it may seem inconceivable that the source of all mitochondrial DNA was a single woman, but it's a well-established outcome of the laws of probability.


The article goes on to explain the process of tracing DNA back to this Mitochondrial Eve in a simple way:

Quote:
You can get a feel for the mathematics by considering a similar phenomenon: the disappearance of family names. Like mitochondrial DNA, these are generally passed along by only one sex -- in this case, male. If a son marries and has two children, there's a one-in-four chance that he'll have two daughters. There's also a chance that he won't have any children. Eventually the odds catch up and a generation passes without a male heir, and the name disappears. "It's an inevitable consequence of reproduction," says John Avise, a geneticist at the University of Georgia. "Lineages will be going extinct all the time." After 20 generations, for instance, it's statistically likely that only 90 out of 100 original surnames will disappear. Avise cites the history of Pitcairn Island in the Pacific, which was settled in 1790 by 13 Tahitian women and six British sailors who had mutinied on the Bounty. After just seven generations, half of the original names have disappeared. If the island remained isolated, eventually everyone would have the same last name. At that point a visitor could conclude that every inhabitant descended from one man -- call him the Pitcairn Adam.


Hope that makes sense. We are ALL related to Mitochondrial Eve. Her existence simply upholds what scientists thought they would find. What surprised many scientists was that Mitochondrial Eve was only 190,000 years old. There's a lot of interesting stuff to be read about the debates this finding caused.

_________________
Proud member of the Contract Extension for Schwartz Fan Club.


July 2nd, 2012, 10:48 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 11942
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Quote:
We are ALL related
Truth! Yet we continue to treat each other like crap.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


July 3rd, 2012, 10:03 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Absolutely true!!!

At risk of sounding like a tree hugging, peacenik, I fully agree that we need more love and less strife. In my own life, I personally choose to love everyone as best as i can. I haven't always been that way, but it has been developed in me as I grow in my relationship with Jesus, and age.

Instead of looking to fight my enemies, I'd prefer to pray for them, and maybe try and find out why we stand on opposite sides, and see if we can meet in the middle.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 3rd, 2012, 12:34 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
As for the Genesis Code thread being your "consideration of combining the bible with science", your whole premise over there is also that the biblical version of things is true, and then you tried to make the argument that science has proven it to be true. The reality is that science has done no such thing. It has shown that much of what is written in the bible is not true. That's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, so I'm not going into it again here.

I took this from the "God Particle" response because your statement isnt true from my perspective TDJ. Basically what we have is a standoff! You have your science that says things of the Bible are not true, and Christians have their Scientists that say yes it is. Both use archeology, astronomy, matter, doesn't matter, theory, and so on to describe their points. All of that knowledge then boils down to a very simple question:

Do you believe, or don't you?

We can each break out our Science, and start waving statements and truths around, and we can even starting arguing to disprove your side, and my side, and all we have done is dispense more CO2 into the air, by the constant arguing.

Scripture has proven itself to be true under intense speculation, and inspection.

King David: true
Great Flood: true
Jesus: true even to the point that when he was crucified, and the people of his day who had EVERY reason to deny his re-appearance after the third day can not explain why he did come back, not only him but others who died as well. This evidence is supposed to be documented, but I'm not even sure where you'd look. A number of Biblical scholars have stated the existence of these documents, but again, I don't know the names or whereabouts of them.
Noah: True
The Great Exodus from Egypt: true
400 something prophecies throughout Scripture, many dating several hundred years before they happened, true.

But because there are stories that are beyond our scope of understanding and belief, well that's just got to be a lie. That's impossible because x, y, z. Well you are correct, by man's abilities it is impossible, but for God, all things are possible. He isn't subject to our rules and regulations, he isn't bound by our laws of physics, and time, and whatever, He created all of that and moves as He chooses. The problem is that WE, (humans) can only see God from our human perspective, and can not grasp the immensity, and power, and deity of God, so we disclaim it in order to placate ourselves and the responsibility we have to what He's said.

There will come a day very soon where He will show himself, and many who belong to the Science crowd will see, and be overwhelmed at what many of Faith have been saying all along. However, by then it will be too late to escape the bed you made, and that is why so many of us Christians are trying to illustrate God through our love, concern, actions and more.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 5th, 2012, 11:01 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Regarding the "God particle" issue....if the existence is proven (right now it is still theoretical, but with much more evidence that the theory of the Higgs bosun is true), than what does it really prove? It gives us something that gives other things their mass. OK. Now for the big question...who or what created that particle?

It all goes back to the Big Bang theory. What caused it? Some infinitely tiny speck just up and decided to explode and create the universe. But what created the particle....and why after countless centuries of existence did the particle have it's temper tantrum and blow up?

The back and forth between our strong religious members of this board and the non-believer members of this board is reminiscent of the movie Angels and Demons, where the war between the Catholic church and the Illuminati continues to be waged.

Remember...both science and religion are the inventions of MAN, not God.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


July 6th, 2012, 2:30 pm
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3712
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Ok I have a question since it seems to be popping up in every theology thread...


Why does the debate keep raging about god vs. science. I truly don't understand it. As a man of faith who still freely uses his brain, I find each new discovery to be an education about HOW god creates. ( the god particle is a fine example) I have yet to see any new discoveries that dispute gods existence , and I have yet to understand why some Christians fear new discoveries and try to paint science as the enemy.

I would really like to hear from both sides of the debate as to the why's because it truly confuses me. Take evolution for example. It's happening all around us, there is proof everywhere and has been for centuries. I don't nderstand why " non believers " think this is evidence that god doesn't exist, and why people of faith try and deny its existence. If you were god would you make 4000 breeds of dogs....or just a few and give them the ability to adapt and grow in any environment that they can find. Only one answer makes sense to me. But both sides continue to fight about it. Please someone help me make sense of this way of thinking, cuz to me both sides end up looking foolish in my eyes.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


July 6th, 2012, 6:55 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
"I'll be your huckleberry"

What you see here is "battle lines" for lack of a better word. In your example of evolution, one side believes that in some primordial swamp two like organisms that some how came into existence, discovered each other and mated or combined, or even better yet just decided to crawl out of the water and begin "evolving."

Although there may be 4000 species of dogs, is intra-breeding considered evolution?

The difficulty with this theory is actually the mathematics, probabilities, and time needed. What are the probabilities of 2 like organisms meeting in a primordial swamp the size of the earth? I've heard numbers like 10 3millionth power, or something like that. This also leads me to a few questions of my own.

Were these the only two items of life in the PS? In what we know about life there is a predatory chain of survival, so were these two the top of the chain or trying to escape the chain in order survive? What about humans and chimpanzees? I know the Russians spent some significant time trying to breed the two in the 50's and 60's, using Russian women. There is even talk of a "humanzee" and theories about this. But if this is truly our "ancestor" why doesn't this "blend" work?

Okay, now having said that let me offer my speculations on why there is a "war."

Science is trying to prove the existence or lack there of, of God! Science deals in the physical evidence in order to prove it's theories, which is not a bad thing. But as someone said, Science and Religion are creations of man. So what that means to me, is that the Science crowd struggles with the Biblical stories, and truths of Scripture because many of the things that occurred defy the laws of science. Jesus walking on water, Philip leaving the Ethopian eunic and appearing in another location in the blink of an eye. Humanly these things are impossible, and I agree 100%. But, with God nothing is impossible. God is the author of the Scientific laws, and is not bound by them. The difficulty in this is that these things that are beyond explanation, but Science is chasing it's tail trying to prove their validity. Let me ask a question from this perspective: Can a clay pot determine the validity of the Potter? The potter exists outside of the realm of the clay pot, but yet it was created none the less. The same scenario is true with humanity! Because we can not see it, or understand it, we discredit it; but for those who do believe we have personal evidence that we can not explain, nor back up with physical evidence.

I.E. has stated that the statement I made about an upcoming event is fear mongering, and that is his opinion, but I speak from what I know. What is going on in this little area is a break down in communication. We may speak the same language humanly, but Spiritually we're as different as Appalachia and Harvard.

If Science were to recognize intelligent design, then they would be required to obey rules and regulations that go along with that relationship. This doesn't sound as personal as I want it, but it's like Pablo and I discussed concerning a familial relationship. The relationship you have with your wife is not required or regulated, it is two free individuals involved in a loving relationship. The "rules and regulations" are the same. To keep this from getting into a novel, the expectations of any healthy, viable, loving relationships apply to a relationship with God, through Jesus. Jesus provided the sacrifice to pay the blood penalty required by the sin born into mankind. We can argue that point till we're blue, but we the created don't have the right to write the rules, no more than a clay pot can choose to operate out of what it was designed for. Both sides are firmly entrenched, and it does appear to be "battle lines," but my hope is that my friends here will see the love and concern I have for them in Jesus, and that is why I choose to pray for them.

When it comes to the scientific information, I'm operating out of my element, I try to offer up counterpoints as I find them, but more importantly, I just want them to know the true emotion I have for them, and that is why I continue to pray. The results are not up to me, but the effort is, and so i keep plugging along.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 7th, 2012, 9:59 am
Profile
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Warrior... you don't really equate the most basic forms of life (e.g. a single cell, that would divide) as some kind of a creature swimming in the ocean looking for a mate... do you? I can tell you the numbered odds of what you described happening: zero. But that's not what science says. Or even close.

It is interesting that you chose to mention dogs, because all those dogs came from wolf DNA. No - interbreeding itself is not "evolution". But development of all those specialized breeds using intentional selection over just a few hundred years from a single gene pool (wolf DNA) perfectly demonstrates how natural selection/evolution works. http://eveloce.scienceblog.com/10/dogs-prove-evolution/


July 7th, 2012, 1:11 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
It's been a while, long while since I've heard the primordial swamp argument, so I may have confused the way that is goes.

Actually, the Russians have been breeding a domestic version of the arctic fox, and have used the selective breeding program to make them tame, and now they've produced a wide variety of color patterns that are absolutely beautiful. It's taken them something like 50 years to develop the current breed that is beautiful, and docile, and sells for like 700 dollars a pop. National Geographic did a story on it about 2 years ago I think it was. But I wasn't aware this qualified as evolution.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 7th, 2012, 9:45 pm
Profile
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
It's been a while, long while since I've heard the primordial swamp argument, so I may have confused the way that is goes.

Actually, the Russians have been breeding a domestic version of the arctic fox, and have used the selective breeding program to make them tame, and now they've produced a wide variety of color patterns that are absolutely beautiful. It's taken them something like 50 years to develop the current breed that is beautiful, and docile, and sells for like 700 dollars a pop. National Geographic did a story on it about 2 years ago I think it was. But I wasn't aware this qualified as evolution.


Well, by using the term "selective", you're demonstrating a key characteristic of evolution. Natural selection is no different than intentional selection by breeders - it is just sped up. In the case of the fox, they're just taming foxes and making them attractive in the short term. In the case of Wolf-to-Chihuahua ... that is a different case.


July 8th, 2012, 8:45 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9848
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
Why is specific breeding not considered evolution? Evolution is not defined as something that happens naturally and without outside assistance. It is termed as a gradual change. 50 years is pretty gradual, if you ask me. But in the grand scheme of things, it probably isn't. It's all subjective.

And if you believe that God acts through men, then isn't a team of Russian scientists creating a new breed of tame foxes God's work?

This is where I look at the "war" between science and religion and shake my head. How can one say that science is trying to disprove the existence of God? There are some scientists who definitely take that path, without a doubt. But science on the whole, is only interested in finding out the unexplained and trying to give an explanation. That is part of what God instilled in mankind. Free will, the natural curiosity to find out those things that remain unexplained. Many jump to conclusions to support their personal beliefs, one way or the other. That is what gives rise to the "war".

If God chose certain men to put together the Bible to represent His inspired word, why can he not be choosing certain men to help further create and define different breeds of animals on this planet? Why cannot He not be choosing different people to discover new, unexplained things and offer scientific principles as an explanation?

I'm sorry, but when a clergyman pours water and wine into a cup and makes the sign of the cross over it, science will tell you it's still water and wine....because that IS what it consists of. But for those of faith, they accept it as the Blood of Christ. And let's be real here, from an Earthly perspective it is water and wine. But from a Faith perspective it represents the Blood of Christ. It is a representation of what our Saviour did for us, and that we are willing to accept Him into ourselves when we drink it. That is what the Blood and Body are supposed to be about.

So as a man of faith, I understand what the Eucharist is. I understand what the water and wine is. But I also believe in what it represents. And the fact that those who don't believe want to tell me it's only bread, it's only wine doesn't bother me. Because in our Earthly reality, they are right about that.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


July 8th, 2012, 10:27 am
Profile
Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
m2karateman wrote:
Why is specific breeding not considered evolution? Evolution is not defined as something that happens naturally and without outside assistance. It is termed as a gradual change. 50 years is pretty gradual, if you ask me. But in the grand scheme of things, it probably isn't. It's all subjective.

And if you believe that God acts through men, then isn't a team of Russian scientists creating a new breed of tame foxes God's work?

This is where I look at the "war" between science and religion and shake my head. How can one say that science is trying to disprove the existence of God? There are some scientists who definitely take that path, without a doubt. But science on the whole, is only interested in finding out the unexplained and trying to give an explanation. That is part of what God instilled in mankind. Free will, the natural curiosity to find out those things that remain unexplained. Many jump to conclusions to support their personal beliefs, one way or the other. That is what gives rise to the "war".

If God chose certain men to put together the Bible to represent His inspired word, why can he not be choosing certain men to help further create and define different breeds of animals on this planet? Why cannot He not be choosing different people to discover new, unexplained things and offer scientific principles as an explanation?

I'm sorry, but when a clergyman pours water and wine into a cup and makes the sign of the cross over it, science will tell you it's still water and wine....because that IS what it consists of. But for those of faith, they accept it as the Blood of Christ. And let's be real here, from an Earthly perspective it is water and wine. But from a Faith perspective it represents the Blood of Christ. It is a representation of what our Saviour did for us, and that we are willing to accept Him into ourselves when we drink it. That is what the Blood and Body are supposed to be about.

So as a man of faith, I understand what the Eucharist is. I understand what the water and wine is. But I also believe in what it represents. And the fact that those who don't believe want to tell me it's only bread, it's only wine doesn't bother me. Because in our Earthly reality, they are right about that.


This has been said several times in the past few days ... but let's be clear: Science absolutely isn't trying to prove God doesn't exist, or does. Science is not an "entity" with "intent"... it is a methodology that attempts to explain things in a rigorously consistent, tested, and logical way - it doesn't have objectives at all.

Some people might claim that science disproves the existence of God - but that isn't true either, because God and other religions superstition are not falsifiable and cannot be disproved. Sure, it makes some religious people uncomfortable when scientific findings imply the unlikelihood of historical religious events & stories. That's obviously why some branches of all religions try to evolve & incorporate scientific reality into their dogma. But again - "God is the creator and did it outside of the rules of science" is really sufficient self-defense for the religious from anything proved by science. With that blanket statement, any balanced discussion ends.

My personal situation is, the stories and events I heard coming from the religious people and institutions in my life ... just seemed more & more preposterous the more I learned about the nature of science and how our world works ... it was just too personally embarassing for me to try to sustain my religious (Catholic) upbringing when the things that were said & repeated just seemed so preposterous in light of even the very little I know. I know 2+3 does not equal to 4. You don't have to be a professional geologist, biologist, chemist or astrophysicist to see the disconnect. When religion tells me seriously to pay no attention to the most basic math, and that a few thousand years ago 2+3=4 ... I know they're lying or ignorant - or both. People reacted in the same way to Copernicus's heliocentrism as folks do today about evolution. It just takes a very long time for truth to become recognized by some folks... especially when the untrue in their lives is wrapped up in culture, conformity & comfort - and psychological and emotional successes rooted in that comfort and conformity.


July 8th, 2012, 2:11 pm
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1129
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
regularjoe12 wrote:
Why does the debate keep raging about god vs. science. I truly don't understand it.

Me either.

I suspect that, from the side of those who are religious, the prime motivator is the thought that a challenge to a literal interpretation of the bible amounts to a challenge to christianity itself. In other words, if Genesis cannot be taken as simply a creation story but must be taken as literal fact, you cannot have room for evolution.

I think that for many Christians, there isn't a conflict. Certain parts of the bible are seen as stories to help us understand greater truths, rather than literal truths, and science is simply revealing the (incredible) building blocks that God used in creating the universe.

On the flip side, I think there are many scientists who are atheists who believe passionately in their athiesm (Dawkins, for example) and who "attempt" to use scientific argument to "disprove" God. I say attempt in inverted commas as, IMO, this is simply not possible - the god hypothesis cannot be falsified and therefore has no place in science. Whilst Dawkins may make many interesting arguments for atheism, not one of them is "scientific" (they amount to philosophy, IMO) yet his status as a prominant scientist leads many to see his arguments as being "on the side of science" and therefore reinforces the belief that somehow there is a battle between the two going on.

Ditch a literal interpretation of the bible, ditch the idea that science can say anything about god, and your battle disappears. You can enjoy your religion in peace from the threat of scientific discovery and can enjoy your scientific discoveries in peace from the threat of your religion.


July 9th, 2012, 7:32 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
WOW!!! =D> =D>

What an amazing perspective that I can actually understand and appreciate. Thank you both, IE and UK, well ok you too M2K....

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 9th, 2012, 7:37 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.
I have spent the last couple of days thinking on what you said Eric, and I know that there are a few others here who also have become "disenfranchised" with Chrisitanity today, but not only that, I've noticed a pattern that goes along with it.

Eric, you stated that your Catholic upbringing caused you some difficulties in combining what you were taught were preposterous with what little you knew. And I have dear friends who are also Catholic and have been instructed that to miss Mass is a MORTAL sin. I've even heard others make comments, and have some misconceptions about God, based on their knowledge of him and I've come to conclude that the common denominator is ritual verse relationship.

Many of the American churches today, especially in the older faiths like Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian and so on, are very ritual based. There is a set way of doing things, a set number of responses, and a particular requirement in order to meet the demands of the church. But I'm having trouble meeting that up with Scripture.

I guess I should put it in a different way. What if we as Christians (Catholics included) are actually heirs to the kingdom? God has said that we are HIS children, through Jesus. Therefore, we are adopted into the kingdom. So if this is true, we have nothing to earn by being good. In fact, we can't be good enough! So we are heirs, we've received a kingdom we did not build, we can not achieve on our own, and don't deserve to live in. But because a gift was offered, and we CHOSE to accept it, we have been welcomed into the family.

We, mankind, look at the gift as if it were a trick. Nothing is free in this life right? But in truth, it's as simple as accepting the gift offered, and agreeing to the relationship.

Our rules and regulations that we pile upon ourselves in an effort to be good, to meet the standard, to steer the course of our lives does nothing more than put us in bondage. Let me ask you a question, how long does it take for you to lose interest in a challenge that you can't win? That's my point, we are so bound up by the rules and regulations that we aren't free to just be, and enjoy the relationship. This has been my hearts cry for a long time, it's all about the relationship.

Whether it be Pablo, or Eric, Augshum, or M2K, I just want for you guys to understand that God is all about the relationship. I don't want to bring you into a church, I don't want to ask you to step back into place and start towing the company line, I want you to know the freedom and joy of having a relationship with the engineer of the universe. I promise you that our minds can not fathom the deep mysteries of such a relationship, but I also promise you that it is unlike anything you can imagine too!

I won't brow beat you with this, but I just wanted people to see that what I've been trying to say isn't, "hey y'all come to church with me" but more along the lines of "Jesus this is (insert name here), (insert name here) this is Jesus, how about y'all getting to know one another."

I hope that clarifies my perspective a little.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 10th, 2012, 9:13 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 190 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 13  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.