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 Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle' 
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Post Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
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Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'

Published July 02, 2012

Associated Press
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GENEVA – Scientists working at the world's biggest atom smasher plan to announce Wednesday that they have gathered enough evidence to show that the long-sought "God particle" answering fundamental questions about the universe almost certainly does exist.

But after decades of work and billions of dollars spent, researchers at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, say they aren't quite ready to say they've "discovered" the particle.

Instead, experts familiar with the research at CERN's vast complex on the Swiss-French border say that the massive data they have obtained will essentially show the footprint of the key particle known as the Higgs boson -- all but proving it exists -- but doesn't allow them to say it has actually been glimpsed.

It appears to be a fine distinction. Senior CERN scientists say that the two independent teams of physicists who plan to present their work at CERN's vast complex on the Swiss-French border on July 4 are about as close as you can get to a discovery without actually calling it one.

"I agree that any reasonable outside observer would say, `It looks like a discovery,"' British theoretical physicist John Ellis, a professor at King's College London who has worked at CERN since the 1970s, told The Associated Press. "We've discovered something which is consistent with being a Higgs."

CERN's atom smasher, the $10 billion Large Hadron Collider, has been creating high-energy collisions of protons to help them understand suspected phenomena such as dark matter, antimatter and ultimately the creation of the universe billions of years ago, which many theorize occurred as a massive explosion known as the Big Bang.

For particle physicists, finding the Higgs boson is a key to confirming the standard model of physics that explains what gives mass to matter and, by extension, how the universe was formed.

Rob Roser, who leads the search for the Higgs boson at the Fermilab in Chicago, says "particle physicists have a very high standard for what it takes to be a discovery" and thinks it is a hair's breadth away.

Rosen compared the results scientists are preparing to announce Wednesday to finding the fossilized imprint of a dinosaur: "You see the footprints and the shadow of the object, but you don't actually see it."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/07/ ... z1zZKFWtcs

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July 3rd, 2012, 10:14 am
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
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How the Discovery of the Higgs Boson Could Break Physics
By Adam Mann
July 2, 2012
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If gossip on various physics blogs pans out, the biggest moment for physics in nearly two decades is just days away. The possible announcement on July 4 of the long-sought Higgs boson would put the last critical piece of the Standard Model of Physics in place, a crowning achievement built on a half-century of work by thousands of scientists. A moment worthy of fireworks.

But there’s a problem: The Higgs boson is starting to look just a little too ordinary.

As physicists at Europe’s Large Hadron Collider prepare to present their latest update in the hunt for the Higgs boson — the strange particle that exists everywhere in space and interacts with all other elementary particles, giving them their mass — other physicists are preparing for disappointment.

That’s because scientists have been secretly hoping all along that, when they finally found the Higgs, it would be an interesting particle with unexpected behaviors — even somewhat unruly. A perfectly well-behaved Higgs leaves less room for new, exciting physics — the kind that theorists have been wishing would show up at the LHC.

The current situation has some physicists starting to worry and, if coming years fail to turn up interesting results, the field could be headed for a crisis.

Since the mid-20th century, particle physicists have been developing a theory known as the Standard Model, which accounts for all the known forces and subatomic particles in the universe. While this model has proven time and time again to be extremely good at predicting particles and forces that were later discovered experimentally, it is not the final theory of everything. The Standard Model still has various problems that stubbornly refuse to cooperate.

Many contenders have stepped up to account for the discrepancies of the Standard Model but none has been more adored than a theory known as supersymmetry. In order to fix the Standard Model, supersymmetry posits that all known particles have a much more massive superpartner lurking in the subatomic world.

“For particle physicists, the more symmetry there is, the nicer a theory is,” said theoretical physicist Csaba Csaki of Cornell University. “So upon first seeing it, most particle physicists fell in love with [supersymmetry].”

The tricky part is that the LHC, in addition to searching for the Higgs, has also been looking for these heavy supersymmetric superpartners. But thus far, nothing is showing up. Furthermore, all indications are that scientists will find that the Higgs weighs 125 gigaelectronvolts (GeV) – or about 125 times more than a proton – which means that it sits exactly where the Standard Model expected it to be.

Great news for the troublesome Standard Model, not so much for its savior, supersymmetry.

Supersymmetry was first proposed in the 1960s and developed seriously during the heyday of particle physics in the 1970s and ‘80s. Back then, large particle accelerators were smashing subatomic particles together and discovering a slew of new bits and pieces, including quarks and the W and Z bosons. Supersymmetry was put forth as an extension of the Standard Model, but the predicted particles were out of reach for atom smashers of that era.

Before the LHC was up and running in 2010, many physicists were hopeful that it would uncover some evidence for supersymmetry. Despite a few promising results, experimental confirmation of the idea keeps failing to show up.

This has a few in the community beginning to seriously doubt their darling supersymmetry will ever be a viable theory.

“It’s a beautiful theory, and I would love it if it were true,” said particle physicist Tommaso Dorigo, who works on one of the LHC’s two main experiments. “But there is not any compelling evidence.”

For two decades, people have been claiming the supersymmetry results were just a few years away, Dorigo added. So as those few years kept coming and going with no results, physicists have tried explaining the non-appearance of these particles by making additions and elaborations to supersymmetry.

Already, the simplest versions of supersymmetry have been ruled out and a Higgs boson at 125 GeV could require even more changes, making many physicists nervous, Csaki said. Tweaking the theory to explain why even the lightest of the predicted superpartners haven’t shown up destroys some of supersymmetry’s beauty, he said.

For instance, one of the best aspects of supersymmetry is that many of its extra subatomic particles make excellent dark matter candidates. Altering supersymmetry could get rid of these potential dark matter particles, and further changes might make the theory even less useful.

“One day we may just look at it and ask if this is still the theory that we’re in love with,” Csaki said.

Of course, all is not yet lost. The LHC is still smashing particles together and, over the next few years, it will do so at higher and higher energies, perhaps finally bringing supersymmetry to light. While the accelerator will be shutdown in 2013 for repairs, 2014 and 2015 will have the machine running at its top capacity.

Many physicists are eager to see if the lightest predicted superpartner – the supersymmetric top quark, or stop squark – will show up. The stop squark is at the heart of supersymmetry and is needed to explain many properties of the Higgs. Without it, many physicists could give up on supersymmetry entirely.

“If after two years of running at high luminosity at the LHC they don’t see anything, we will be out of ideas of the conventional sort,” said Csaki. “We will be in some kind of crisis.”

While troubling, this situation doesn’t bring physics to a grinding halt. The Standard Model still has holes in it, and something needs to account for the dark matter and energy in the universe. Alternative theories to supersymmetry exist. Some require additional forces in nature, new interactions among particles, or for the Higgs boson itself to be composed of simpler pieces.

“However those models have their own problems to be a consistent models of nature,” wrote particle physicist Rahmat Rahmat from the University of Mississippi, who also works on the CMS experiment, in an email to Wired.

As yet, supersymmetry is still the front-runner for theories beyond the Standard Model and most physicists remain optimistic for its prospects.

“I’m really hopeful that besides the discovery of the Higgs, we will also soon see something else,” said Csaki.

Image: The giant detector for the CMS experiment, one of the main Higgs-searching experiments at the LHC. CMS collaboration/CERN

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July 3rd, 2012, 10:15 am
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
Apparently, science wants to believe in GOD. But, they want to attribute GOD to anything other than the real GOD. How about this for a clue? The GOD Particle is none other than the GOD that you read about in Genesis creating the Universe and everything in it.

He is the uncaused, 1st cause. The Big Bang in person.


July 4th, 2012, 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
BillySims wrote:
Apparently, science wants to believe in GOD. But, they want to attribute GOD to anything other than the real GOD. How about this for a clue? The GOD Particle is none other than the GOD that you read about in Genesis creating the Universe and everything in it.

He is the uncaused, 1st cause. The Big Bang in person.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Scientists aren't the ones referring to it as the god particle. The media is. And that's only because this is the first scientific explanation that they've discovered that helps show how the universe was formed.

Scientists refer to it by its actual name: Higgs Boson.

But then again, why am I even bothering to reply. You refuse to consider anything other than the religious explanation. It's like trying to teach a tree. Pointless.

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July 4th, 2012, 4:10 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Apparently, science wants to believe in GOD. But, they want to attribute GOD to anything other than the real GOD. How about this for a clue? The GOD Particle is none other than the GOD that you read about in Genesis creating the Universe and everything in it.

He is the uncaused, 1st cause. The Big Bang in person.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Scientists aren't the ones referring to it as the god particle. The media is. And that's only because this is the first scientific explanation that they've discovered that helps show how the universe was formed.

Scientists refer to it by its actual name: Higgs Boson.

But then again, why am I even bothering to reply. You refuse to consider anything other than the religious explanation. It's like trying to teach a tree. Pointless.


Call it Higgs Boson or GOD Particle. Call it whatever you want to. The two names for it are synonymous.

As for the bolded accusation, that is hog wash. The Genesis code thread is about my consideration of a combination of Bible truth mixed with Science fact. If your going to accuse me of things, at least tell the truth please.


July 4th, 2012, 4:39 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
BillySims wrote:
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Apparently, science wants to believe in GOD. But, they want to attribute GOD to anything other than the real GOD. How about this for a clue? The GOD Particle is none other than the GOD that you read about in Genesis creating the Universe and everything in it.

He is the uncaused, 1st cause. The Big Bang in person.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Scientists aren't the ones referring to it as the god particle. The media is. And that's only because this is the first scientific explanation that they've discovered that helps show how the universe was formed.

Scientists refer to it by its actual name: Higgs Boson.

But then again, why am I even bothering to reply. You refuse to consider anything other than the religious explanation. It's like trying to teach a tree. Pointless.


Call it Higgs Boson or GOD Particle. Call it whatever you want to. The two names for it are synonymous.

As for the bolded accusation, that is hog wash. The Genesis code thread is about my consideration of a combination of Bible truth mixed with Science fact. If your going to accuse me of things, at least tell the truth please.

The names are only synonymous because the media dubbed it the God particle. Your whole point is predicated on the premise of scientists referring to it as the God particle, and that simply isn't happening. The only reason that name even exists is because the story of God creating everything is so common and easy to understand that it was an easy analogy for people to make when describing it. This particle is the first glimpse we have that shows potentially how everything was created. Hence, the name God particle. If you don't see the distinction between someone writing/saying something in the media, and what scientists are saying, then there's no point in having a conversation.

As for the Genesis Code thread being your "consideration of combining the bible with science", your whole premise over there is also that the biblical version of things is true, and then you tried to make the argument that science has proven it to be true. The reality is that science has done no such thing. It has shown that much of what is written in the bible is not true. That's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, so I'm not going into it again here.

I get that you're a believer, and that's fine. Believe whatever you want. I don't dismiss your beliefs. I don't happen to share them, but as long as it's a personal thing for you and you don't disparage others I'm cool with it. But if you summarily dismiss one of the most significant findings in modern scientific history and try to turn it into a religious thing, then I have a problem.

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July 5th, 2012, 10:10 am
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
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The reality is that science has done no such thing


That is true from a certain point of view.

Quote:
The reality is that science has done no such thing.


also only true from a certain point of view

So far I have yet to find a single scientific fact that prooves or disproves the existance of god. If you know otherwise, speak up, your gonna be famous!

untill then I would advise caution. It's just as simple for a non faith based person to draw conclusions that are only true from a certain perspective as it is for someone with faith.

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July 5th, 2012, 10:53 am
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
The reality is that science has done no such thing


That is true from a certain point of view.

Quote:
The reality is that science has done no such thing.


also only true from a certain point of view

So far I have yet to find a single scientific fact that prooves or disproves the existance of god. If you know otherwise, speak up, your gonna be famous!

untill then I would advise caution. It's just as simple for a non faith based person to draw conclusions that are only true from a certain perspective as it is for someone with faith.

I wasn't saying science has proved or disproved the existence of God. I said science has disproven much of what is in the bible. That is true. But again, that's another thread and not to be discussed here.

As I said before, this discovery is the first glimpse that science has been able to show that may help explain how all matter came to be. That's all. It's not a proof or disproof of God. Nothing ever can be, because people of faith will say that it was God who created the science and that it was his plan for us to discover it, while scientists will cite it as proof that it was science, not God. Neither will ever convince the other.

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July 5th, 2012, 11:03 am
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
I posted this back in the Genesis Code discussion but that topic dropped off, so I brought it back here.

As for the Genesis Code thread being your "consideration of combining the bible with science", your whole premise over there is also that the biblical version of things is true, and then you tried to make the argument that science has proven it to be true. The reality is that science has done no such thing. It has shown that much of what is written in the bible is not true. That's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, so I'm not going into it again here.

I took this from the "God Particle" response because your statement isnt true from my perspective TDJ. Basically what we have is a standoff! You have your science that says things of the Bible are not true, and Christians have their Scientists that say yes it is. Both use archeology, astronomy, matter, doesn't matter, theory, and so on to describe their points. All of that knowledge then boils down to a very simple question:

Do you believe, or don't you?

We can each break out our Science, and start waving statements and truths around, and we can even starting arguing to disprove your side, and my side, and all we have done is dispense more CO2 into the air, by the constant arguing.

Scripture has proven itself to be true under intense speculation, and inspection.

King David: true
Great Flood: true
Jesus: true even to the point that when he was crucified, and the people of his day who had EVERY reason to deny his re-appearance after the third day can not explain why he did come back, not only him but others who died as well. This evidence is supposed to be documented, but I'm not even sure where you'd look. A number of Biblical scholars have stated the existence of these documents, but again, I don't know the names or whereabouts of them.
Noah: True
The Great Exodus from Egypt: true
400 something prophecies throughout Scripture, many dating several hundred years before they happened, true.

But because there are stories that are beyond our scope of understanding and belief, well that's just got to be a lie. That's impossible because x, y, z. Well you are correct, by man's abilities it is impossible, but for God, all things are possible. He isn't subject to our rules and regulations, he isn't bound by our laws of physics, and time, and whatever, He created all of that and moves as He chooses. The problem is that WE, (humans) can only see God from our human perspective, and can not grasp the immensity, and power, and deity of God, so we disclaim it in order to placate ourselves and the responsibility we have to what He's said.

There will come a day very soon where He will show himself, and many who belong to the Science crowd will see, and be overwhelmed at what many of Faith have been saying all along. However, by then it will be too late to escape the bed you made, and that is why so many of us Christians are trying to illustrate God through our love, concern, actions and more.

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July 6th, 2012, 11:10 am
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I took this from the "God Particle" response because your statement isnt true from my perspective TDJ. Basically what we have is a standoff! You have your science that says things of the Bible are not true, and Christians have their Scientists that say yes it is. Both use archeology, astronomy, matter, doesn't matter, theory, and so on to describe their points. All of that knowledge then boils down to a very simple question:

Do you believe, or don't you?

We can each break out our Science, and start waving statements and truths around, and we can even starting arguing to disprove your side, and my side, and all we have done is dispense more CO2 into the air, by the constant arguing.

Scripture has proven itself to be true under intense speculation, and inspection.

King David: true
Great Flood: true
Jesus: true even to the point that when he was crucified, and the people of his day who had EVERY reason to deny his re-appearance after the third day can not explain why he did come back, not only him but others who died as well. This evidence is supposed to be documented, but I'm not even sure where you'd look. A number of Biblical scholars have stated the existence of these documents, but again, I don't know the names or whereabouts of them.
Noah: True
The Great Exodus from Egypt: true
400 something prophecies throughout Scripture, many dating several hundred years before they happened, true.

But because there are stories that are beyond our scope of understanding and belief, well that's just got to be a lie. That's impossible because x, y, z. Well you are correct, by man's abilities it is impossible, but for God, all things are possible. He isn't subject to our rules and regulations, he isn't bound by our laws of physics, and time, and whatever, He created all of that and moves as He chooses. The problem is that WE, (humans) can only see God from our human perspective, and can not grasp the immensity, and power, and deity of God, so we disclaim it in order to placate ourselves and the responsibility we have to what He's said.

There will come a day very soon where He will show himself, and many who belong to the Science crowd will see, and be overwhelmed at what many of Faith have been saying all along. However, by then it will be too late to escape the bed you made, and that is why so many of us Christians are trying to illustrate God through our love, concern, actions and more.


I consider basically every single thing said above here to be un-true in the context that was intended, based on science. And not just "maybe" untrue - completely & obviously un-true to even the most casual objective observer. What I mean by "context" is, there is zero evidence that the existence of a King (David) or a mass migration of people has anything to do with biblical truth. And all that "prophecies come true" stuff is bunk - just superficial and circumstantial stuff, or 3rd party witness that is clearly not "evidence" of any sort.

I am very comforted that my belief isn't based on willful ignorance - by blindly not believing or paying attention to things that are conspicuously true ... because they are inconvenient truths. Things like the great flood & Noah are clearly just stories without any sort of scientific credential or sense to them at all (other than parable or moral lesson), and there is no actual evidence of Jesus coming back from the dead - none...zero. This is simply not true, and repeating it over & over does not make it any truer.

This is why the religious always fall back into "faith" and/or "fear" when cornered with facts from sources they can't really dispute without being completely embarassed. The whole "Flying Spaghetti Monster" concept was just developed as a logical exercise to show the futility of trying to arge about something that isn't falsifiable (or, in other words, nobody can ever disprove the existence of something that hasn't been proved to exist - you can only prove something exists... and religion doesn't require that of God).

That last paragraph above is clearly meant to create fear based on uncertainty. I think a big problem here is, the gap between people in this arguement's understanding of science is just obviously too big to have intelligent discussion about it... and again the discussions always devolve into some kind of statement about impasse, with a disingenuous attempt to instill fear of the end-time at the end (Pascal's wager). But what religious people don't understand is, non-believers are not going to be afraid of something happening, which - and based on actual observations of our universe & not magic - is 100% never going to happen. As a result, my personal comfort in that fact is stronger than any person's faith.

There is no weapon against someone who is unafraid.


July 6th, 2012, 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Scripture has proven itself to be true under intense speculation, and inspection.


Let me ask you a question. Since the Bible is the "Book of God", should it not be error free? If you don't believe it should be error free, how many errors would it take until you realize that it can possibly be the "Book of God"?

1, 10, 100, 1,000?

Are you ready to put your faith to the test?

Now, back to the "God Particle" - very cool findings. I'm excited to see how this impacts a number of theories, not of least is the big bang.

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July 6th, 2012, 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
Can we leave this thread as a scientific discussion and leave the religion out of it guys? That would be a nice change.

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July 6th, 2012, 2:10 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
My response is over in the "RELIGION" thread, so we can leave this, ahem, Scientific.

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July 6th, 2012, 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Scientists to unveil evidence of 'God particle'
m2karateman wrote:
Can we leave this thread as a scientific discussion and leave the religion out of it guys? That would be a nice change.



and the people all cried AHMEN!

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July 6th, 2012, 5:13 pm
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